BF Specs and Combined Threads

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by merlin

Hmm Factory released dedicated LPG XR8 making similar/same power (with correct tuning)- I'd buy that.

LPG is for barbeques....!! :

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

There wsa a thread on here while back people saying their fuel economy.

MOST I6 cars were about 10-12 litres 100Km.. MOST V8s were 16-18 overall.

Sounds good doesn't it. But is useless. Unless age, type, tyre pressure climate, maintenance are all taken into account that by itself doesn't mean anything. If you had a lot of people in QLD participating it is likely they were using Aircon more then Southern states. Is everyone having the same split of highway and city driving? There are many factors. In most cases V8 owners will drive them accordingly and not drive for economy. If one has a 6 it’s probably for the reverse reason. What people claim as economy is not indicative of what the engine is capable of doing.

I have come from owning sixes and V8s and I can tell you there isn’t much in it.

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by HSE2

I have come from owning sixes and V8s and I can tell you there isn’t much in it.

Me too. You're right. I've owned a BA XR6 a BA XR6T ute and an EL XR8 and all of them were within 1L/100KM of each other.

I'll soon have an XR6T 6 speed and I'm not expecting much difference there either.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

LPG is for barbeques....!! :

mmm bbq's.... :

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

Me too. You're right. I've owned a BA XR6 a BA XR6T ute and an EL XR8 and all of them were within 1L/100KM of each other.

I'll soon have an XR6T 6 speed and I'm not expecting much difference there either.

I agree with you. The point we seem to have stumbled on here that is taking this off topic is about fuel getting expensive and that Ford are correct in acting as they "look" to have done. I don’t agree with that sentiment and that is based on personal experience not just with Ford but with other V8 companies as well. The key is if the car has to be driven in the same manner in order to make a comparison.

There is a very good point regarding fuel consumption that people have missed and it should be on Fords to do list. It would certainly cut the cost of V8 ownership but people seem to have missed it.

[Axle-F]

Originally Posted by HSE2

I thought I read that Ford did develop the 5.4 3 valve? Did it not increase 10kws and 30 nm? Please correct me if I am wrong

Sh1t. yea forgot about that lol

Then again i was just thinking about XRs when talking about fords development approach.

but still would be interested to compare xr6t with xr8 insurance costs...i really wouldnt know either way

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Axle-F

but still would be interested to compare xr6t with xr8 insurance costs...i really wouldnt know either way

go do an online quote at www.nrma.com.au

i predict there will be bugger all difference,

[Axle-F]

Estimated insurance for a $40,000 car with a 35 y.o driver:

XR6T - Annual Amount $1,266.98, Basic Excess: $500
XR8 - Annual Amount $1,592.63 , Basic Excess: $500

Thats over $300 more a year on just insurance to own an XR8. I'd say that tips the higher ongoing costs firmly towards the V8. But you already knew that :the_finge

[mrngo]

Wonder if there is going to be a facelift? Maybe its just going to be mechanical

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by mrngo

Wonder if there is going to be a facelift? Maybe its just going to be mechanical

Read the thread in WHOLE. We have seen pictures of the BF Falcon, and there is some FaceLifting Involved.


-Andrew

[Falchoon]

Pete/Ian, you are right about the XR8 and V8 FPV vehicles being constantly behind in power and performance when compared to similar model Commodores but remember when the Typhoon was released with it's 550Nm (most of any Aussie production motor including V8s) Ford/FPV received a caning by all the do-gooders like Harold Scruby and friends for it being a lethal weapon.

Don't worry about little things like the Commodores are faster and more powerful...the media seems quite biased towards Holden at times but to save deviating further off-topic we will save that discussion for another thread.

There was even talk of another 1972 GTHO Phase IV banning happening again.

I'm sure Ford are still licking their wounds over this one and would avoid at all costs repeating history again.

Ford have stated for a long time that their vehicles are about the whole driving package, not just raw power or speed.

[russellw]

A little bit of quick analysis from the old Drag Racing Analyser produces some interesting numbers.

For control purposes the first table is based on the current BA FPV GT-p auto - the figures produced are almost exactly what I ran at heathcote last weekend so they can be considered accurate for both ET and MPH.



The next table uses the same base specs with the 6 speed auto and the (potential) 2.73 rear axle.



The final table uses all the same data but changes the rear axle ratio to 3.46



I've made no allowance for weight reduction or the improved efficiency of the new transmission nor any allowance for the availability of torque converter lock up on all gears.

Cheers
Russ

[JPFS1]

Thanks for those numbers.

I've got now doubt that they will be a fair bit quicker, i've driven the new XR6T and XR8 with the new auto, it is such a good box. Not only will the cars gain from the better box, they will gain from new calibrations, and i've even heard that there are suspension changes, not just spring rate and shocks, but new materials, so i would think that we may even weigh in slightly lighter.

I believe there is still a significant amount of detail yet to be revealed.

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by Donut King

pity about the diff ratios with the 6 speed auto...
Barra 190 – Falcon: 2.73
Barra 230: 2.53
Barra 245T / Boss 260: 2.73
Barra 190 – Territory: 3.46

so get a BA I diff put into ur BF ;)
BA diffs will be cheap!
wala, killer gearing

[Lawsy]

The ZF apparently has 2 1st gear ratios, and we got the shorter one. 4.17 or something? The other is what, 3.9x?

That longer ratio, coupled with a 3.46 diff gear, would make the BF an absolute weapon of mass distruction.... To bad it now can't happen because of Fords inability to negotiate for the better gear...

In any case, the 6 speed with any diff gear higher than 2.72 is going to kick ****....
Source the 2.87 (i think) center out of the Jag diff (if its a similar diff) and you'll be laughing all the way down the quarter mile...
I can't wait to upgrade our Ghia now....

[RED_EL_XR8]

Thanks for the tables Russ, point five on a baseline isn't an improvement to be sneezed at. Plus some weight reduction etc...

[Psycho Chicken]

I'd have a stab and say those gear ratios are to do with emission laws. XD was the same, better economy than the smaller engined, lighter Commodore, all in the gear ratios.

[prdreilly]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Low 1st would make up for the tall diff ratio though...
BA XR
Overall Gearing (XR8 Autos)
1st
BAII 8.63:1
BF 11.38:1

2nd
BAII 5:1
BF 6.38:1

3rd
BAII 3.45:1
BF 4.14:1

4th
BAII 2.35:1
BF 3:11:1

5th BF 2.38:1
6th BF 1.88:1

Don't know how hard it is to come up with these figures, but would it be possible to calculate and compare BF auto to MkII 6speed manual ratios, along with final drive to arrive at "overall gearing" figures?

Another interesting point regarding the 3 valve V8:

Originally Posted by Ford

Unique Ute application

Reddington explained two versions of the 3-valve V8 would be offered with the BF Falcon programme, with unique versions for sedan and ute.

“The torque output resultant from the upgrades to the Barra 230 demand the use of a high-torque transmission.

“As a result, sedan buyers opting for the Barra 230 will have their engine matched to the ZF six-speed automatic transmission.

“We conducted a lot of research with our commercial buyers, for whom price sensitivity is a key factor.

“Those customers overwhelmingly reinforced the fact the power and torque of the Barra 220 teamed to the updated four-speed automatic transmission was more than adequate.

“As a result, XL, XLS and RTV ute customers opting for a V8 will have a version of the engine with power and torque remaining at an extremely healthy 220 kW and 470 Nm.

“Ute customers wanting a more performance oriented vehicle have the option of the XR range, with the XR8 and Turbo versions offering the ZF six-speed automatic or Tremec T56 six-speed manual transmission.”

BF Futura

[macca_779]

I'm really surprised guys there is more information on streetcommodores fourm about the BF than here whats going on is no one interested

[HSE2]

We are punishing Ford for not upgrading the XR8 engine- what’s it look like?

Kidding -we are all very excited on the inside

[Donut King]

the info on stcomms was actually copied and pasted from the same place the info here was copied from, so if there is more there than there is here, I would be very surprised... Just that we merged 2 threads together here, so the information is a bit mor split up throughout the thread...

just wondering does anyone know what the price increase is going to be on the new xr range

Far from knowing that. But you can safely assume it will increase.

[UNR8D]

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/ar...vf=2&bg=1&pp=0

182 to 190!!! WAHOOO

and the 6 speed should be good!

Drive.com give a good report

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by matto76

just wondering does anyone know what the price increase is going to be on the new xr range

There was an upgrade price mentioned in one of the articles of around $1800.00, I'm guessing at this for a very rough bench mark probably more more like $2500.00 starting for the bigger V8's. But that is purely a guess.

Re-reading that price quoted is for the 6-speed over the 4-speed. my bad.
I think Ford will be trying very hard to keep the increases reasonable.

[BA-Fan]

Guys if that was the BF XR8? then what is this?
I think that what we have seen is actually the BA Mk III!

Jeremy.

[BA-Fan]

Looks like they have gone for new headlights this time around along with GT style stripes on the XR8.

BF XR8 Photo

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by SM0KED

Guys if that was the BF XR8? then what is this?
[/IMG]http://www.brockcommodores.com/Other%20Stuff/bfxr8-202.jpg[IMG]

I think that what we have seen is actually the BA Mk III!

Jeremy.

lol, one of your photochops?