Australia - China - Poltics - Page 13

Pis-ton broke · 14-03-2021, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by five 7

Thoughts on giving a Chinese company a 99 year lease on Keswick Island.

typically MSM won't cover the deal and the bullying chinese tricks on the island. and typically some bureaucrat
has sold out another aussie asset, its a sandal imo. but the left seem to do what ever they want to do these days and there's no repercussions.

MITCHAY · 19-03-2021, 07:57 PM

There have been some interesting developments the last week.

The Biden administration saying China won't get anything from the US unless they stop their BS towards us. Also going in hard on Putin too.

Who knows how that ends up because no doubt there would be pressure within the US to take advantage of the situation especially with China and us but it is nice to have them put it at least on the public record.

At the end of the day these are words in a world where actions matter but I like it so far.

cheap · 20-03-2021, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

There have been some interesting developments the last week.

The Biden administration saying China won't get anything from the US unless they stop their BS towards us. Also going in hard on Putin too.

Who knows how that ends up because no doubt there would be pressure within the US to take advantage of the situation especially with China and us but it is nice to have them put it at least on the public record.

At the end of the day these are words in a world where actions matter but I like it so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZof-hedxFA

Do you really think China is worried? The Chinese totally disrespect the US … look and listen to the soft-xxxx morons that Biden has sent to negotiate.

The Chinese response “US does not have the qualifications to say that they speak to China from a position of strength…”

They know Biden is a dithering demented useless fool.

China only respects strength, and the USA is run by a bunch of bed-wetters.

IMO WW3 is inching nearer with the US rhetoric, China just called them out and the US blinked.

oldel · 20-03-2021, 06:03 PM

LOL, you think China were only saying that because of who's in the whitehouse?
No, it's because the west is stuffed if China wants to start something.

Like australia, US farmers etc depend on China trade.
Like the rest of the world, we are dependant in chinese manufacturring.

lastly China has 1 trillion dollars of US debt that they can ask for.

Doesn't matter who's in the whitehouse, china had been buying the west for decades. That's what they meant.

"Why does China buy US debt?
China has been running a large trade surplus in goods and services for years, meaning it exports more than it imports. As such, its international income has also increased from its growing trade surpluses,
with many of the trade transactions with businesses in the US and other countries paid for with US dollars. Thus, China accumulates US dollars, which it uses to buy assets denominated in US dollars – securities such as bills, notes and bonds issued by the United States Department of the Treasury on behalf of the federal government to fund its annual budget deficit and roll over existing debt.– as well as assets in other currencies. These assets are included in its foreign exchange reserves, which are now the largest in the world at US$3.22 trillion."

oldel · 20-03-2021, 06:47 PM

By start something I didn't mean outright war with the US or the west - that's ridiculous because once you're at war then the other country isn't going to honour debt, so buying debt would have be pointless if that was their plan.

I mean interfere in South East Asia, Africa, Pacific and push it as far as they can, they already are. They've been buying the west for decades.
The west has sold themselves to the lowest bidder.

As far as the former pres, he was not wrong with wanting to do something about it, just did it the wrong way - a populist vote buyer and threatening, tarrifs etc. He thought he could win a trade war with them and that was never true. Too late, too simplistic a thought. Dumb strongman posturing that cost the USA heaps, and no jobs came back anyway.

Any western leader that wants to reduce reliance in china for trade and use caution in intelligence gathering etc is doing the right thins - whether they diversify exports, industry, increase domestic manufacture or invest in another friendlier country is doing the right things
I also wouldn't say it has changed the end intentions - they've been buying us anyway and they always intended to be the top power, but it probably moved the time table forward when they were antagonized and covid ruined everything (I said that in the covid thread or this thread before. China is always going to be China, but the time table has changed due to trump and covid.

Maybe it will end up better this way, because we have more time to do something about it? When rebuilding post covid and recession maybe we can start improving domestic manufacture or wean ourselves of China and they may end up having shot themselves in the foot by acting too early (like before they had even more trillions of dollars from the west)

Mr_G6ET · 20-03-2021, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldel

By start something I didn't mean outright war with the US or the west - that's ridiculous because once you're at war then the other country isn't going to honour debt, so buying debt would have be pointless if that was their plan.

I mean interfere in South East Asia, Africa, Pacific and push it as far as they can, they already are. They've been buying the west for decades.
The west has sold themselves to the lowest bidder.

As far as the former pres, he was not wrong with wanting to do something about it, just did it the wrong way - a populist vote buyer and threatening, tarrifs etc. He thought he could win a trade war with them and that was never true. Too late, too simplistic a thought. Dumb strongman posturing that cost the USA heaps, and no jobs came back anyway.

Any western leader that wants to reduce reliance in china for trade and use caution in intelligence gathering etc is doing the right thins - whether they diversify exports, industry, increase domestic manufacture or invest in another friendlier country is doing the right things
I also wouldn't say it has changed the end intentions - they've been buying us anyway and they always intended to be the top power, but it probably moved the time table forward when they were antagonized and covid ruined everything (I said that in the covid thread or this thread before. China is always going to be China, but the time table has changed due to trump and covid.

Maybe it will end up better this way, because we have more time to do something about it? When rebuilding post covid and recession maybe we can start improving domestic manufacture or wean ourselves of China and they may end up having shot themselves in the foot by acting too early (like before they had even more trillions of dollars from the west)

I think it's too late, China plans are years (likely decades) ahead, the West is here and now always procrastinating about the maybe. Who produces the 'stuff' now and how can we replace that ?
The West cant stop what's happening now, get used to the asian future IMO.
U.S is full of ****heads

Bossxr8 · 22-03-2021, 11:30 AM

I see ASIO has said that china is trying to infiltrate our trade organisations, trying to gather info on our trade deals with other countries. Specifically ones we have tried to diversify our trade with after china blocked some of our imports. No doubt they want to know about it so they can work out a way to ruin those deals for us. They really want revenge. What an insecure bunch of cry babies.

**FTE217** · 22-03-2021, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

I think it's too late, China plans are years (likely decades) ahead, the West is here and now always procrastinating about the maybe. Who produces the 'stuff' now and how can we replace that ?
The West cant stop what's happening now, get used to the asian future IMO.
U.S is full of ****heads

pretty much agreed, the diff of being a commo led country, people have NO say whereas our freedom of speech western ways have come to bite us on the a rse.
As oldel mentions re the just outed US Prez, he had the right mind set to say NO to them but not the delivery, if only he didn't have such foot in mouth desease and kept away from SM it could have gained more support and traction.
He should have rallied up supporting countries and come up with a combined stratergy that could at least force corrective actions to counter the CCP's intent moving ahead but its all too late going up a creek without a paddle.

Bossxr8 · 22-03-2021, 01:48 PM

China accuses Tesla of spying, because they run dash cams. So they have been banned from chinese military bases. You can't make this up

https://www.caradvice.com.au/935933/...s-back-report/

Mr_G6ET · 22-03-2021, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

pretty much agreed, the diff of being a commo led country, people have NO say whereas our freedom of speech western ways have come to bite us on the a rse.
As oldel mentions re the just outed US Prez, he had the right mind set to say NO to them but not the delivery, if only he didn't have such foot in mouth disease and kept away from SM it could have gained more support and traction.
He should have rallied up supporting countries and come up with a combined strategy that could at least force corrective actions to counter the CCP's intent moving ahead but its all too late going up a creek without a paddle.

Good point(s) on the right intent but wrong (dumb as ****) delivery.
Is the debate and delay, politics, politicians holding us back ?
I don't trust the people we have in power to determine our future by themselves, especially our current opposition.

**DJR-351** · 22-04-2021, 09:24 AM

'Australia not targeting China' after controversial Victorian trade deal scrapped

https://www.9news.com.au/national/vi...-dumped_220421

Quote:

Foreign Minister Marise Payne says the Australian Government is not picking a fight with China after it scrapped Victoria's controversial infrastructure agreement with Beijing.

The move, amid already-heightened tensions with China, earned the immediate "strong displeasure and resolute opposition" of the Chinese embassy.

But Ms Payne told Ben Fordham on 2GB today the decision was not aimed at China and the government was committed to engaging with Beijing.

"I want to be clear, it's not aimed at any one country," she said.
"We are absolutely committed to our continuing engagement with China."
Chinese officials said the decision by Australia would have serious repercussions.

"This is another unreasonable and provocative move taken by the Australian side against China," a spokesperson said in a statement.

"It further shows that the Australian government has no sincerity in improving China-Australia relations.

"It is bound to bring further damage to bilateral relations, and will only end up hurting itself."

Two deals linked to China's Belt and Road Initiative were among four Victorian government agreements deemed to be "inconsistent with Australia's foreign policy or to our foreign relations", Ms Payne said last night.

She told 2GB this morning that both countries had benefited from close economic ties but that Australia's national interest had to take priority.

The other two agreements ripped up in the first audit of major projects of its kind were with Iran and Syria, dating back as long as 22-years-ago.

Victoria's involvement with the Belt and Road Initiative has come under increasing scrutiny given Australia's tensions with China in recent months.

Premier Daniel Andrews has defended his state's agreement with China to support the $1.5 trillion plan from 2018.

The veto scheme giving the Foreign Minister the power to audit deals with foreign nations was introduced in December.

More than 1000 arrangements between states, territories, local governments and Australian public universities have already been submitted to the minister for consideration.

"The more than 1000 notified so far reflect the richness and breadth of Australia's international interests and demonstrate the important role played by Australia's states, territories, universities and local governments in advancing Australia's interests abroad," Ms Payne said.

Ms Payne said she would continue to consider submissions made under the scheme and "expect the overwhelming majority of them to remain unaffected".

As part of the first-ever audit, Ms Payne said she had approved a proposed memorandum of understanding on cooperation on human resources development in energy and mineral resources sector between the Department of Jobs, Tourism, Science and Innovation of the Government of Western Australia and the Ministry of Energy and Mineral Resources of the Republic of Indonesia.

The four arrangements are:

- Memorandum of understanding between the Department of Education and Training (Victoria) and the Technical and Vocational Training Organisation, Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs, the Islamic Republic of Iran, signed 25 November 2004.

- Protocol of scientific cooperation between the Ministry of Higher Education in the Syrian Arab Republic and the Ministry of Tertiary Education and Training of Victoria, signed 31 March 1999.

- Memorandum of understanding between the government of Victoria and the National Development and Reform Commission of the People's Republic of China on cooperation within the framework of the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road Initiative, signed 8 October 2018.

- Framework agreement between the government of Victoria and the National Development and Reform Commission of the People's Republic of China on jointly promoting the framework of the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road, signed on 23 October 2019.

**Polyal** · 22-04-2021, 09:41 AM

While on the surface this is a good thing, and ill read a bit more later, man hold on because the gov must have some good grounds.

Think about it, you shake hands on a deal and then big brother over rides it?

Dont get me wrong I think major projects needs auditing...but its embarrassing for Fed to over rule state.

MITCHAY · 22-04-2021, 09:41 AM

Good. The clown is already getting his dummy spit ready for his next press club appearance

**Polyal** · 22-04-2021, 10:21 AM

There is going to be more dummies flying than a kindergarten.

Problem is look at the reliance on China, thats the issue, each Gov has failed to diversify because China is easy...you cant have it both ways but I do agree more scrutiny is required for large capital projects.

Like I said, I hope the Gov has a short term plan for the pain that is going to come...FMG et al must be getting some insider info because I would be letting loose at the crap that is going on.

**FTE217** · 22-04-2021, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

While on the surface this is a good thing, and ill read a bit more later, man hold on because the gov must have some good grounds.

Think about it, you shake hands on a deal and then big brother over rides it?

Dont get me wrong I think major projects needs auditing...but its embarrassing for Fed to over rule state.

Embarrassing for the State Gov more like it....
I'm glad we have big bro as you call it now having implemented
The veto scheme giving the Foreign Minister the power to audit deals with foreign nations was introduced in December......

Should have been down years and years ago.
You can't have the State run its own course - thats the trouble with this country and its constitutions, its not all for one one for all.
Those laws of the past were suitable back in the ol pioneering days, many laws etc need to start being changed as National ones imo.

The reliance on China and we are not alone was because it was a win win but as time moves on people/Govs etc overlook whats to occur long term And Govs only cover their base's whilst in power.

**Polyal** · 22-04-2021, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

Embarrassing for the State Gov more like it....
I'm glad we have big bro as you call it now having implemented
The veto scheme giving the Foreign Minister the power to audit deals with foreign nations was introduced in December......

Should have been down years and years ago.
You can't have the State run its own course - thats the trouble with this country and its constitutions, its not all for one one for all.
Those laws of the past were suitable back in the ol pioneering days, many laws etc need to start being changed as National ones imo.

The reliance on China and we are not alone was because it was a win win but as time moves on people/Govs etc overlook whats to occur long term And Govs only cover their base's whilst in power.

I dont disagree our system needs a bit of a rejig, CV19 showed that too.

Im not against the action, but you can appreciate China's anger, you made a deal, not sure what they have lost to date but I notice the coal project in my area which was Chinese owned also got the lease right paid back ($100M) by NSW Gov...expect some pretty rough times for those in industries tied in with them.

**FTE217** · 22-04-2021, 12:45 PM

Polyal, sure agreed alot to pay back And tbh I'm fine with that And for going back on the deal/s.
Thats life/business regards to the anger, relationships have their peaks and valleys as we all know, China can and will hold us to anything nowadays and pushing the moral high ground, like yer right we all know what that means.
We've prospered for decades and lost/lose control - time to get back to a crawl for less.
Covid has shown us "re set" for many Industries incl Sports is the new norm.

As has been mentioned in other mediums, we need to venture out more, yes India can become a good provider as long as you keep a close eye on them.
We dropped our gaurd with China for we loved having our Banks filled up.
Turkey has some very good manufacturing. In my Industry having dealt with some Factories product is good.
Vietnam I've mentioned before, its growing and getting investment from other countries.

Bossxr8 · 22-04-2021, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont disagree our system needs a bit of a rejig, CV19 showed that too.

Im not against the action, but you can appreciate China's anger, you made a deal, not sure what they have lost to date but I notice the coal project in my area which was Chinese owned also got the lease right paid back ($100M) by NSW Gov...expect some pretty rough times for those in industries tied in with them.

From my understanding there were no deals in place, it was just an agreement to look into doing future deals. No contracts or anything confirmed.

I'm glad this got kyboshed. What the hell was Comrade Andrews thinking getting into bed with these slimy CCP con artists?

They are the most butthurt, insecure little children i've seen on a world scale. Expect to see their pathetic little dummy spits coming, because they didn't get their way.

nibble · 22-04-2021, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

From my understanding there were no deals in place, it was just an agreement to look into doing future deals. No contracts or anything confirmed.

I'm glad this got kyboshed. What the hell was Comrade Andrews thinking getting into bed with these slimy CCP con artists?

They are the most butthurt, insecure little children i've seen on a world scale. Expect to see their pathetic little dummy spits coming, because they didn't get their way.

Yes but they can hurt us economically in a big way. This government has no idea how to handle China and relations have sunk to it's lowest.

oldel · 22-04-2021, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

Embarrassing for the State Gov more like it....
I'm glad we have big bro as you call it now having implemented
The veto scheme giving the Foreign Minister the power to audit deals with foreign nations was introduced in December......

Should have been down years and years ago.
You can't have the State run its own course

It's embarrassing even for the Fed gov that it took so long to happen! Sure the agreement was made when things were good, but back when trade started going bad it should have been vetoed!
To do nothing all year and leave it out there while weathering all sorts of disputes is pathetic. Instead of doing it on a slow news day and further stoking the fires up again it could have been killed off months ago when tensions were high anyway!

"Dear China: This has nothing to do with international trade or our stance on China, but is a state and internal matter."

That's all they should have said ages ago when they should have vetoed it, ie not stoking up new stuff on a slow news day and saying even more than that or whatever else Payne said. Less said the better, earlier done the better!

The timing reeks of incompetence, the remarks reek of arrogance.
Typical of this government.

oldel · 23-04-2021, 12:54 AM

I wonder if the ATO and ADF is still using Global Switch to store info after the chinese bought 49% of the company in 2016.

Oh, seems they still are even though they said they would change servers years ago. Seems they're also attracted to the low low prices, can't go wrong...
https://news.defence.gov.au/media/on...-switch-ultimo

**FTE217** · 23-04-2021, 09:52 AM

laying blame no matter oldel, someone will always have differing pov re our Govs.
Incompetence arrogance is on both sides of the fence, typical for years.
Like I said, many things should have been addressed long long ago how we dealt with China but no one complains or address whats to become whilst our pockets are getting fat.

MITCHAY · 23-04-2021, 10:30 AM

True to form they have come out and said they are gonna retaliate

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldel

I wonder if the ATO and ADF is still using Global Switch to store info after the chinese bought 49% of the company in 2016.

Oh, seems they still are even though they said they would change servers years ago. Seems they're also attracted to the low low prices, can't go wrong...
https://news.defence.gov.au/media/on...-switch-ultimo

They are moving out of GSU but it doesn't happen overnight.

Tickford. · 23-04-2021, 06:01 PM

Wonder if the 99 year lease of the Darwin Port to China, made by the Liberals in 2015 - can be torn up? Anyone know who the treasurer was at the time who approved of this 99 year lease to China?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-...-role/10912478

MITCHAY · 23-04-2021, 06:39 PM

I would hope the Darwin port is next on the chopping block or very close to the top of the list. I think they were saying there are something like 1000 deals to go through.

roddy1960 · 23-04-2021, 06:51 PM

Unfortunately we and many other western countries have shot ourselves in the foot I reckon . We are so reliant on on their cheap access to manufacturing and have let our own go as each year has passed. We now make bugger all compared to the post WW 2 years . First it was cheap (often crappy stuff) from Japan . This even included cars . Then they got better and much better and started producing leading edge tech and we had to pay bigger bucks for the privilege .

China I'd say in recent decades has become the new Japan . Same thing , lots of crap and that still happens as I know only too well but at the same time they are flogging us some ever increasing better stuff .

I don't care what party anybody here votes for because mobs of both persuasions have given in to China and let them screw us time after time.

I think that before they and others pillage the rest of our mineral resources which is one thing we do still have it's about time we either get them to pay premium prices or we start doing serious investment into more self sufficiency and down stream processing while we still can ..

Maybe China might start to get the message and stop trying to bully boy us as much as recently if they think we might find ways of reducing reliance on their vast manufacturing arm .

Only how I see it but I wish we'd grow some bigger testicles sooner rather than later .

If we don't start getting much smarter with commodities/ trade deals and high tech the day after the ship load of ore and other resources leaves our shores will be followed by the first day countries like China will wipe us like a dirty bum in many ways because our bargaining strength just gets weaker .

Just a thought on the back of something I read last year regarding Great Britian's exit from the EEC that a great opportunity to do some significant trade with them might be a great move for both economies . Only time will tell I guess ..

**DJR-351** · 23-04-2021, 07:02 PM

The Darwin Port/Landbridge deal is safe as far as the Chinese are concerned, there is no way in the world the Aus Gov is going to cough up the well over $500m to buy it back.

The deals been spoken about cancelling at the moment are for the most part hand shakes with bugger all monies/investment having changed hands, agreements.

With what Landbridge have invested in the Port of Darwin since the initial purchase of the lease it would cost Aus close to a billion to get out of it, you can't just tear it up.

MITCHAY · 23-04-2021, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

The Darwin Port/Landbridge deal is safe as far as the Chinese are concerned, there is no way in the world the Aus Gov is going to cough up the well over $500m to buy it back.

The deals been spoken about cancelling at the moment are for the most part hand shakes with bugger all monies/investment having changed hands, agreements.

With what Landbridge have invested in the Port of Darwin since the initial purchase of the lease it would cost Aus close to a billion to get out of it, you can't just tear it up.

I wouldn't say that for sure and for me worth it. The amount of spending going around at the moment, that is not all that much in the bigger picture.

Look how they are spitting the dummy over these deals which so far have no tangibles and we are supposedly tiny and will only lose etc..

Imagine how ****ed off they would get if we bought that back which is an actual asset

**DJR-351** · 23-04-2021, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I wouldn't say that for sure and for me worth it. The amount of spending going around at the moment, that is not all that much in the bigger picture.

Look how they are spitting the dummy over these deals which so far have no tangibles and we are supposedly tiny and will only lose etc..

Imagine how ****ed off they would get if we bought that back which is an actual asset

Oops, i forgot to add the 90 odd years of lost earnings that they would be entitled to sue for, now that figure will hurt....

MITCHAY · 23-04-2021, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Oops, i forgot to add the 90 odd years of lost earnings that they would be entitled to sue for, now that figure will hurt....

You can only project so far. I say rip it up and buy it back

I understand our diplomacy has not been great, but just remember that all we asked for was an investigation which the whole world wanted and they chucked a massive dummy spit.

They responded by economic pressure because they didn't like that.

Personally I'm in favour of restricting iron ore supply just so we can milk more out of them ****s before they eventually cut us off anyway. Near $200 at the moment.

Covid is rampant in Brazil and with an idiot like Bolsonaro they are not going to meet targets for a while