Holden closure

[GASWAGON]

This subject is never going to end........I can see the Holden supporters never giving up!

[TC200six]

Protest rally outside Holden's Elizabeth plant tomorrow. Whopping 4 members.

https://www.facebook.com/events/483891838391558/

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

To be a tad fair in our scathing comments about GT's features VE was no better. FG has had a long stay between drinks and next year we'll have gadget city sans GT unfortunately. It's interesting to reflect that one vehicle that did a great job in shifting the market to the SUV style vehicle was the Territory. Did we shoot ourselves in the foot? For once Ford Aus spotted a niche, made a helluva successful pitch at it that still works today. But IMHO a cannibal factor in Falcons numbers.

Of course VE and FG are/were very basic cars. Which is a shame when you consider GM and Ford do have alot of tech they use in many of their cars but in Australia they were very content to keep Falcodores as basic as possible. At 40,000 grand entry level though it cant be justified to many buyers when half that price gets a spec'd up, gadget full import.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Once we look beyond two minor models from two manufacturers, and start checking out the big bad world out there, you'll find there's plenty of "passion". It doesn't start and stop with two badges from big manufacturers produced by a tiny arm of the big US companies in a remote small country at the bottom of the world.

Those 'two minor models' have generated more passion over the years than anything else put together. They still do. The crowds don't go to watch Kia vs Hyundai. They still want to see a Falcon or Commodore win... Unfortunately the Australian buying public think the grass is greener on the other side for many of the reasons discussed on this forum...

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Once we look beyond two minor models from two manufacturers, and start checking out the big bad world out there, you'll find there's plenty of "passion". It doesn't start and stop with two badges from big manufacturers produced by a tiny arm of the big US companies in a remote small country at the bottom of the world.

Agree with this and your other posts. Ford/Holden aren't the only performance car manufacturers in the world, in fact they barely made performance cars, just family taxi's with big motors in them. Passion is not a uniquely Australian thing, hell the pre VE Commodore was just assembled by raiding the GM warehouse and sticking a car together out of random bits and pieces. End of the day most of the styling, concepts, etc, in Aussie manufacturing were just thngs that filtered down to us from the States. People talk bad about American cars but we use the same principles, same cheap plastic, etc.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by superyob

Those 'two minor models' have generated more passion over the years than anything else put together. They still do. The crowds don't go to watch Kia vs Hyundai. They still want to see a Falcon or Commodore win... Unfortunately the Australian buying public think the grass is greener on the other side for many of the reasons discussed on this forum...

Unfortunately, passion and watching a car race does not convert into a sizable increase in sales
which after all, is the reason why production is ending...

[superyob]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Unfortunately, passion and watching a car race does not convert into a sizable increase in sales
which after all, is the reason why production is ending...

Alas this is so true...

[stevz]

Originally Posted by superyob

Those 'two minor models' have generated more passion over the years than anything else put together. They still do. The crowds don't go to watch Kia vs Hyundai. They still want to see a Falcon or Commodore win... Unfortunately the Australian buying public think the grass is greener on the other side for many of the reasons discussed on this forum...

Watching Kia vs Hyundai lol. I would rather watch the lawn bowls.
The problem in this country is that we have been so busy bending over to appease foreigners that we have allowed our own values and way of life to be completely eroded. Patriotism is dead, we cringe at the thought of anything Australian made and everything our predecessors have worked hard to build is being flushed down the toilet.
Prime example - Many don't even celebrate Christmas or put up decorations anymore in fear of 'offending' certain ethnic groups, yet if you speak up about it the politically correct do gooders are quick to shoot you down as a racist.
Australians have become the bum lickers of the world and its doing this nation immense damage, yet most are too blind to see it.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I do notice that the media is in a frothing frenzy saying "Holden is closing!!!!!!!!".
It's not. As with Ford, Ford is not "closing", they're just stopping building one unpopular model that people aren't buying in numbers that make it economic to continue with.

I've noticed the same, and find it very strange.

Both losses are big, but I think that Ford contributed more to R&D in the country than Holden.

The Falcon and Territory were Australian designed and engineered. The Commodore and the Cruze used overseas platforms and modified to suit, yes Holden engineers contributed but nothing like Ford have done.

The Territory was a ground breaking car. The VE and VF are great cars, but nothing like the Territory was.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by johnydep

I've noticed the same, and find it very strange.

Both losses are big, but I think that Ford contributed more to R&D in the country than Holden.

The Falcon and Territory were Australian designed and engineered. The Commodore and the Cruze used overseas platforms and modified to suit, yes Holden engineers contributed but nothing like Ford have done.

The Territory was a ground breaking car. The VE and VF are great cars, but nothing like the Territory was.

VE and VF are 100% Australian designed and engineered.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by stevz

Watching Kia vs Hyundai lol. I would rather watch the lawn bowls.
The problem in this country is that we have been so busy bending over to appease foreigners that we have allowed our own values and way of life to be completely eroded. Patriotism is dead, we cringe at the thought of anything Australian made and everything our predecessors have worked hard to build is being flushed down the toilet.
Prime example - Many don't even celebrate Christmas or put up decorations anymore in fear of 'offending' certain ethnic groups, yet if you speak up about it the politically correct do gooders are quick to shoot you down as a racist.
Australians have become the bum lickers of the world and its doing this nation immense damage, yet most are too blind to see it.

What are you on about? Every second house has Christmas lights on it. Australia isn't the doom and gloom cesspool you want it to be. I don't know anyone except for Muslims/Jewish and people who just hate Christmas that don't celebrate Christmas. We aren't bending over for other countries, we're just too expensive. Aussies love to live outside their means, we need the biggest and best right now, as many loans as possible to get the biggest house and best car. So we also need every benefit in the world, one day off work unpaid could all bring it crumbling down. We've priced ourselves out of the global market.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by stevz

VE and VF are 100% Australian designed and engineered.

Yes - the first time for Holden. What about the previous incarnations?

Ford has always been more Australian, contrary to what the media and Holden PR will have you believe.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by johnydep

I've noticed the same, and find it very strange.

Both losses are big, but I think that Ford contributed more to R&D in the country than Holden.

The Falcon and Territory were Australian designed and engineered. The Commodore and the Cruze used overseas platforms and modified to suit, yes Holden engineers contributed but nothing like Ford have done.

The Territory was a ground breaking car. The VE and VF are great cars, but nothing like the Territory was.

It takes a lot of passion and dedication to design and build a car from scratch. VE, VF, Falcon and Territory were all 100% more Australian than what gets bolted together in Altona from boxes originating from Japan and Thailand.

[Rodge]

The very strong demand for the VF SS-V Redline is interesting. It seems at the eleventh hour they finally hit the sweet spot in terms of building a car with up to date level's of technology to go along with decent performance, handling and brakes at a price people are prepared to pay.

Its rather ironic that they finally seemed to get the recipe right but too late to change the outcome.

[Sprint]

I wonder how many in this thread have ever had to go without food or experience in not being able to pay the bills, Maybe then the can have true apathy of the situation and dislodge the silver spoon from there rectum.

[TC200six]

I'm seeing this image appearing online. The creator wants GM to sell Holden to save the jobs, but who do they expect to buy it? Clive Palmer?

[borough]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

It takes a lot of passion and dedication to design and build a car from scratch. VE, VF, Falcon and Territory were all 100% more Australian than what gets bolted together in Altona from boxes originating from Japan and Thailand.

Those cars being bolted together in Altona have a higher percentage of Australian sourced sourced components (65%) than the Commodore (50%) .

[Road_Warrior]

Falcon is 70% according to dowlstick, I thought the Commodore was only 30%?

[borough]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Falcon is 70% according to dowlstick, I thought the Commodore was only 30%?

That was the VF replacement. The Cruze is about 30%

[stevz]

Originally Posted by borough

Those cars being bolted together in Altona have a higher percentage of Australian sourced sourced components (65%) than the Commodore (50%) .

Perhaps, but in terms of design and engineering, Toyotas have 0% Australian content.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

Perhaps, but in terms of design and engineering, Toyotas have 0% Australian content.

http://www.toyotadesign.com.au/

[jamies]

Originally Posted by stevz

Perhaps, but in terms of design and engineering, Toyotas have 0% Australian content.

Hmmm I've been to a few Toyota model launchs and go to a lot of managers meetings, I have to disagree with you. Unless you know something we don't.. Toyota Australia do some pretty intense testing of there product in Australia. Do you know all bullbar and large accessories get certified and have to meet strict Australian rules before they will be realesed for retail sale.. All heavy duty accessories are all sourced and built within Australia. You'll be surprised how much Toyota purchase right here keeping it local. Toyota support Australian sport give to many charity's and donate a lot of money to sponsorship. When A company on the Goldcoast was going under Toyota worked with the company to try and save it, they believed it was worth the effort to try and save a company,save jobs. This company built bull bars for Ford,Nissan,Toyota.. They spent a whole year with the company but it was to late. The company shut it's doors and now the operation had been moved to another state, it took twelve months to bring the new manufacturer up to speed with Toyotas strict quality control. The parts I order every day there is a large amount of mechanical and panel which are Australian made.

[basteve]

Why is it that there was not as great media attention given when Ford Australia decided to close manufacturing in Australia as is with Holden confirming it will also cease manufacturing? After all Ford Australia has been a great "aussie icon" and had survived as underdog to Holden for decades making it a far more resiliant battling against the not so aussie commodore a supposidly "dinky di" Australian car. Most magazines portrayed Ford throughout its time in Australia as being beneath that of the red lion. The Ford falcon is a more genuine Australian vehicle than any commodore. The straight six engine and all the panels were made here in Australia. The commodore is based on the opel that I saw a vk in the streets of Budapest Hungary . It was a bizarre scene to behold a surreal encounter way beyond Australia. Also the straight six in the falcon is more genuine aussie than the v6 buick motor that the commodore used in the so called Aussie icon. So how can we sit back and let the smoke screen cover up *the true blue aussie car the all Australian Falcon and create so much attention to the Holden Commodore. Its truly amazing how many can lose insight to what is really Australian and that a far greater percentage of the falcon is real aussie. Ford Australia has produced more of an aussie icon its six cylinder Falcon over its german/aus opel commodore with a heart coming from a american buick v6. Australians have a great patrionage to the Holden Commodore but its not that Australian as they think it is. Ford is the true hero shunned and scrutinised to collapse by a public believing Holden is the ultimate Australian company. Maybe in the past it rang more true and genuine but has really lost that ribbon. I for one cant be fooled. Falcon you were the best genuine Australian produced car. Its needs more recognition than it gets.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by stevz

Have you not read anything in this thread?

yea I have. Australia doesn't even make a "light car" we have a small car. just because you have an issue with people buying imports theres no need to carry on as I have said plenty of times (on this thread to) that times have changed. most people don't want a big car anymore. they want an SUV or have downsized. tell me this. I want to buy a 4wd, what Australian car is four wheel drive. I'm talking proper fourby here not AWD, what Australian made 4WD can I buy brand new??? answer this and you might see why people aren't buy commodores and falcons anymore??? there not as practical as other cars.

I might look at a new falcon and ask the dealer how does it compare to a Hyundai Gets because according to you there in the same class

[stevz]

Originally Posted by wildrider

yea I have. Australia doesn't even make a "light car" we have a small car. just because you have an issue with people buying imports theres no need to carry on as I have said plenty of times (on this thread to) that times have changed. most people don't want a big car anymore. they want an SUV or have downsized. tell me this. I want to buy a 4wd, what Australian car is four wheel drive. I'm talking proper fourby here not AWD, what Australian made 4WD can I buy brand new??? answer this and you might see why people aren't buy commodores and falcons anymore??? there not as practical as other cars.

I might look at a new falcon and ask the dealer how does it compare to a Hyundai Gets because according to you there in the same class

Blah, blah, blah..... You have taken my post completely out of context and completely missed the point I was trying to make.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by stevz

Perhaps, but in terms of design and engineering, Toyotas have 0% Australian content.

cant handle the fact your precious Commodore is less Australian then the Japanese designed but Australian made Camry!

Holden were so Australian yet our Cruze has more Korean parts then Australian 30%

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by stevz

Blah, blah, blah..... You have taken my post completely out of context and completely missed the point I was trying to make.

no you have, all you do is whinge and ***** about people not buying Australian but don't realise people DONT WANT Large sedans anymore.. I love large sedans but most people don't. most familys will buy a suv over any Commodore (thank god), Falcon or Camry/Aurion, If it where up to you we would probably be still in the 50s. life goes on... you still haven't answered my question

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stevz

Blah, blah, blah..... You have taken my post completely out of context and completely missed the point I was trying to make.

Steve, the greatest concern I have is that for all the experience and talent in Holden's design and engineering, it too is being closed down.
It's as though GM wants nothing more to do with Holden brand or any engineering associated with it..

At least Ford is continuing it engineering projects, maybe there's a different philosophy at work there
and probably why people in the past have being remarking that you usually build where you engineer...

I get this feeling from whispers that GM want Holden brand gone in the next year or so to make the closure easy
and to transfer identity to Chevrolet as the plan going forward. Raw nerves from Holden fans would tend to support that..

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by stevz

VE and VF are 100% Australian designed and engineered.

I think GM powertrain would be a little irked at Holden claiming sole design, lol.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Nikked

http://www.toyotadesign.com.au/

It is really frightening when things are not investigated before some make comment ...... in excess of 140 people just in the design centre in little old Melbourne.

Is is also well documented that the VE and VF are not "100% Australian designed and engineered." Can start with the letters LS and see where that takes us. But in the end, really, any percentage with some local content is a good thing!!!!


Toyota Technical Center Australia (TTC-AU) is one of five Toyota Technical Centers around the world and the only one in the southern hemisphere. Operating as a separate company to Sales and Manufacturing companies, such as Toyota Motor Company Australia (TMCA), the Toyota Technical Centers have their core R&D Center in Japan, and full-scale technical and design development facilities in the United States, Europe, Thailand and Australia that operate in a ‘hub’ formation.

TTC-AU in Melbourne, Australia performs specialised operations and is a key contributor to the development of innovative vehicle designs for Toyota’s global regional markets, while also involved in fine tuning models for the particular needs of Asia and Australia.

AND

From our establishment in 2003, our primary focus has been on product development for Australia and Asia: body design, chassis design, evaluation and specification development. In addition, our engineers are increasingly responsible for development and design expertise for Japan, Europe and America.

Today, Toyota Technical Center Australia (TTC-AU) is one of the most advanced automotive design engineering facilities in Australia, with the capability to design a range of models to global standards.