The "ve" Thread - Page 13

blackahcdx · 28-09-2006, 04:04 PM

have you actually seen a VE and an Aurion next to each other yet?

XPfalcon170 · 28-09-2006, 06:56 PM

Went to the VE trade night at boyded parts distrubutor a few wednsdays ago. took some pics of the ss, ss-v, calais-v, statesman, and caprice. got a good feed of sausage and steak sandwiches aswell

who agress the ss back end looks almost exaclty like a gt?

Outbackjack · 28-09-2006, 07:12 PM

From the angles of the photos of the orange car.... They have similar lines to the BF XR8.... I really dont why people say they make the BF look dated. I have had my car parked next to a new VE ss and they just look different.

Dr Smith · 28-09-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

have you actually seen a VE and an Aurion next to each other yet?

Yes, Toyota HQ is across the road (Westgate Freeway) from Holden HQ (in Vic) and the two were parked in the main driveway to the Toyota offices. One of the threads @ LS1 has two shots at similar angles of an Aurion and a VE and as good looking and contemporary as the VE is the Aurion looks 2006 while the VE looks 2003 and considering the Holden stylists have boasted on the outline being started back in 1999 that's one hell of a long design lead time especially when compared to previous Commodore signs off's from initial sketch start-ups. Don't melt, looks are purley personal opinion.

AUTickford · 28-09-2006, 08:44 PM

Went to the motorplex last night for the street drags and there was a brand new ss or hsv commodore there. It ran a 13.8 which is quik but far from the 13.2 that i think holden quotes. mind u ford overstates the qm times of all their cars too

XR8-260 · 28-09-2006, 09:09 PM

Was it an auto or manual? Apparantly the auto nearly achieves performance parity with the manual.

FordFan86 · 28-09-2006, 09:11 PM

wow, really... just wow... (www.google.com, define: sarcasm, for those not caught on..)

David See · 28-09-2006, 11:23 PM

Got up-close-and-personal with some VE's today at Suttons Waitara.

I think all of them are nice looking cars, not as solid as I thought they would be when opening/closing doors, etc.

SS is one nice looking machine and unbelievable as a standard vehicle.

The interiors are nice, functional, but bland. I would like to see them in action of a night because they will probably light up like a christmas tree. Too much black in the SS which made it VERY hot today when it was not that hot a day. A lot of finger marks over the trim as well because it is a roughish "snake-skin-like" soft finish.

However, at least the dash in the VE is soft, unlike the horrible hard plastic dash in my Territory!

The Berlina interior the same except for some more trim colour and an AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL fake plastic strip across the dash. What are they thinking?

The HSV GTS I saw there was AWESOME! It was a metallic grey gunmetal colour with a hint of purple in it - unreal and one incredible looking car. Chunky and at last something I would love to own.

The interiors still look boring for a new car - nothing exciting there - and that handbrake - again, what where they thinking?

Overall, a very good looking package. Especially the HSV.

HSE2 · 29-09-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

The alloytec engine is not rough.

Not many ppl on here know the difference between roughness and noisiness.

The alloytec is simply noisey, not rough. Got to the Ecotec if you want rough.

The improvements Holden made to the Alloytec for VE are good, it actually sounds ok now, but i still think it could sound a hell of a lot better.

I don't know what the hell you were driving but all V6s suffer from balance issues or harmonics. Compared to the Ecotec you would be correct, it’s improved but the VE still has the perianal V6 issues to deal with and as such you won't be seeing many reviews that will rate the engine above the Barra I6 for refinement. Its one of the acknowledged advantages of the inline six and one of the reasons Ford has opted to not use the global V6s they have to choose from. Their own testing has revealed that to gain the required torque the V6 simply can't match refinement without massive investment. It’s simply a fact to life in much the same way that V8 Ford owners have to accept the fact the Holden have a sizable advantage in the V8 sector.

You can include yourself in the list of people that don't know the difference.

My current BF loaner has really surprised me. I have had it while test driving a couple of VE range cars and it has simply blown me away. It’s over 10 years since I have had a Ford 6 to live with long term. (more then a couple of days). On the same roads the XR6 was comprehensively quieter smoother and by far more economical then the Omega and the BF was the four speed auto. The fuel economy has really blown me away. It should have been around the 12s of the VE but it was in the 9s. 9.9 To be exact but the difference was astonishing. Admittedly the VEs are brand new while the BF has 7k on the clock. The auto in my loaner isn't the best example. Nearly took out the garage because it took ages to select reverse and ran forward after I was expecting to reverse away. It also seemed to make some harsh changes from time to time and the real killer over the ZF is the old taxi sound. I had forgotten about that one.

I have to return the Xr6 today but I have really been blown away with it so much so that I have to wonder at people trading out of these cars for smaller more economical ones. Driving around town has only resulted in the average rising to 10.6. Given the advantages it offers in packaging I can’t see the reasoning and again the refinement! Is it really worth it? Many times I found myself looking at the tacho to see that the engine was actually running. Not only couldn't it be heard but you couldn't feel it either. The last Barra six I drove was the a series one BA (Turbo). Ford have definitely not stood still with this engine.

Question for the turbo guys. Has this increase in refinement and economy found its way into your cars?

The VE by comparison, well on these roads it really struggled and made hard work of the climbs. It had to change sooner and more often and despite a quieter ambience, most of the time it really made you aware that the engine hasn't been matched for the increase in weight. If the 4 speed makes it further they are going to have to do something with the gearing. I suspect they have tuned it for maximum efficiency but when the car has to pull it really has to work much harder. I suspect this is where the fuel consumption is being hurt the most. The Omega is one VE that has really grown on me and has confirmed my original opinion that the sport variants of the VE range just look awkward. Especially the sports pack that is available for the Omega. Looks much better then the SS SV6 but still short of the stunning Caprice, which is the outright star of the show.

blackahcdx · 29-09-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

I don't know what the hell you were driving but all V6s suffer from balance issues or harmonics. Compared to the Ecotec you would be correct, it’s improved but the VE still has the perianal V6 issues to deal with and as such you won't be seeing many reviews that will rate the engine above the Barra I6 for refinement. Its one of the acknowledged advantages of the inline six and one of the reasons Ford has opted to not use the global V6s they have to choose from. Their own testing has revealed that to gain the required torque the V6 simply can't match refinement without massive investment. It’s simply a fact to life in much the same way that V8 Ford owners have to accept the fact the Holden have a sizable advantage in the V8 sector.

You can include yourself in the list of people that don't know the difference.

I know what you are saying. At no point did i say it was a better engine than the I6. I know the reason why ford stick with it.

*takes self off above mentioned list*

4Vman · 29-09-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

I know what you are saying. At no point did i say it was a better engine than the I6. I know the reason why ford stick with it.

*takes self off above mentioned list*

So you now conceed the Alloytech is "rough" in comparrison?

I too have never been able to understand why all Holden V6's have that annoying courseness to them, i understand its a V6 trait, but surely by now they would have solved it?

HSE2 · 29-09-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

I know what you are saying. At no point did i say it was a better engine than the I6. I know the reason why ford stick with it.

*takes self off above mentioned list*

Jury is still out on that. Saying many people don't know the difference is a bit rough in itself. Many people don’t have the same value system and therefore don't apply or look for the same elements in a car, bearing in mind that its under specific conditions that the worst of these traits present themselves.

Take the BOSS engine as one example. The people that have issues with it can't convince the people that don't there are any problems at all. Doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking from either perspective. Perhaps they might not articulate the feelings to words like some but to come out and say people don't know the difference, considering we are in fact talking about an engine that is recognised with such issue, well lets say that’s waving the flag a little too strongly and is dismissive of the fact that perhaps people do know the difference. After all it is a recognised area of concern with this engine and allowance needs to be made in this regard.

4Vman · 29-09-2006, 10:18 AM

Actually the more i think about it the more i believe the V6 will never really loose those harshness traits.
A V6 engine has crank phasing which means it has 120 deg of crank rotation per rod journal because there are 2 rods per journal spread evenly over 360 deg of crank rotation.
It also means you get TDC events in 3 spaced out sets of 2.
a straight 6 has 6 evenly spaced TDC events every 60 degrees of crank rotation because it has 6 independant rod jounals spread evenly over 360 deg of crank rotation.
This means the inline 6 will exibit a far smoother linear and "harmonic" free power delivery.
The inline 6 will by its very design allways be a better powerplant design than a V6.
V6 offers space saving advantages only due to its compact nature.

kinksta · 29-09-2006, 12:11 PM

i dont mind the VE, except the standard omega. the SS-V looks the goods, but that strip package is disgusting!!!

Smoke Pursuit · 29-09-2006, 01:36 PM

I dont mind the VE, but when you add the new mudflaps they look like John Deere Tractors, i cant beleive they only offer flaps, no spats on the new model, its probarly because the body is so round, they look shocking!

Falc'man · 29-09-2006, 01:56 PM

im glad the VE looks the way it does, cos the more i look at it, the more i dont like it.

blackahcdx · 29-09-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

I dont mind the VE, but when you add the new mudflaps they look like John Deere Tractors, i cant beleive they only offer flaps, no spats on the new model, its probarly because the body is so round, they look shocking!

mud flaps/spats look shocking on any car

kinksta · 29-09-2006, 05:47 PM

id rather have mudflaps than mud or scratches up the sides dude.....each to there own:-$

Smoke Pursuit · 29-09-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

mud flaps/spats look shocking on any car

Yeh watever, they are a fugly option on the new Holden, least they look half decent on the Fords.

blackahcdx · 29-09-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinksta

id rather have mudflaps than mud or scratches up the sides dude.....each to there own:-$

ture

the world would be a very boring place if we were all the same and had to drive the same car

csv8 · 03-10-2006, 11:15 AM

You know a car company is in trouble when they release a special model so soon after a new release. Mitsu did it with the 380.
Now Holden with the VE, The Omega V has 17" alloys, spoiler and aircon for $500 more than the Omega. Wouldn't you be ****ed if you had a bought an Omega last month???
Role on BF !!!!!!!!!!!!

Steffo · 03-10-2006, 11:17 AM

Wasn't the Omega V around since VE launch? I'm pretty certain it was and is nothing new.

csv8 · 03-10-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Wasn't the Omega V around since VE launch? I'm pretty certain it was and is nothing new.

No it wasn't. Holden released details of Omega V late last week. Write up in weekend papers.

Dave_au · 03-10-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

No it wasn't. Holden released details of Omega V late last week. Write up in weekend papers.

VE Omega V was announced at the launch of the VE - its been known for weeks. The car is only for private buyers, it's not a fleet option - Holden is milking the fleets for the extra money for aircon whereas this is to continue to capture the private buyers against the likes of the Falcon SR.

csv8 · 03-10-2006, 11:40 AM

Then they have kept it very quiet. ? Wouldn't you be ****ed if you had bought an Omega and the salesperson hadn't told you of the Omega V ? I know I would and be asking for compensation.

chevypower · 03-10-2006, 11:56 AM

every company has disclaimers about all their product "our company reserves the right to change product, specifications, colors etc at any time without notice" I dont think they owe customers any compensation, and customers should accept and expect sudden model changes ESPECIALLY from Ford and Holden

colossus · 03-10-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Then they have kept it very quiet. ? Wouldn't you be ****ed if you had bought an Omega and the salesperson hadn't told you of the Omega V ? I know I would and be asking for compensation.

If customers had done their research they wouldn't be in that situation - it was heavily publicised at the time of the VE launch that this model was coming out before years end.

Kryton · 03-10-2006, 12:23 PM

i still find it hard to believe that in this day and age, AirCon is still an option....just like cruise control.

Richo72 · 03-10-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

i still find it hard to believe that in this day and age, AirCon is still an option....just like cruise control.

I guarantee that Holden simply will never build a Commodore without AirCon...But having it as a $2,000 "option" does mean that they can advertise a sticker price lower than the equivalent Ford product...And that advertised sticker price is going to get their dealers foot traffic..

Bud Bud · 03-10-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richo72

I guarantee that Holden simply will never build a Commodore without AirCon...But having it as a $2,000 "option" does mean that they can advertise a sticker price lower than the equivalent Ford product...And that advertised sticker price is going to get their dealers foot traffic..

I know someone that always updated their Commodore every two years through his company as far back as VL days. He never ordered air because he was in and out of the car so often with his line of work that he could not see the point of paying for it if it was never going to be used. He wouldn’t be the only one in Australia like that!