Mullaly confirms Falcon and Mustang to share platform from 2016

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Not at all, I have owned Fords all my life and was a Ford fan enough to buy an AU brand new. I was also instrumental in getting my work to change its national fleet of Hiluxes to LPG RTV utes which unfortunately never happened due to it having production cancelled. So I really consider myself a Falcon fan.

My issue is that we need to critically analyse what the CEOs and management are saying. Remember these ex-accountants are probably more focused on meeting their quarterly performance bonus rather than securing the long term rear-wheel-drive architecture of the Falcon.

Burela is an engineer / 'on floor' production guy.

NOT an accountant or a PD CAD warrior.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Burela is an engineer / 'on floor' production guy.

NOT an accountant or a PD CAD warrior.

So is Mulally IIRC.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

The FWD/AWD/RWD market research by Ford fails to take into account the significance of the cultural peculiarities of the Australian Automotive landscape.

Just looking at the Aussie made entries - the Toyota Aurion/Camry, Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon.

Ford and Holden are both considered Australian (Holden more so) by the public. This is both good and bad as there are many that wouldn't touch the local RWD product as they consider them to be 'Bogan' cars (Bogan = Redneck for those in Dearborn), but that doesn't stop them selling as a lot of Australians ignore the Bogan tag or are actually proud to be a Bogan. For these people RWD is important.

As for Toyota, they are still a Japanese car maker in the eyes of most Australians, but they sell to people who are seduced by Toyota's percieved reliablity (even though they are the most recalled brand in the US for 2009). These poeple aren't car enthusiasts and couldn't care less what wheels are driven - if the wheels weren't on the outside of the car they wouldn't even know what a wheel was. Another thing to consider is that for a FWD car it doesn't matter how big it is - it will be cross-shopped against medium FWD cars. That's partly the reason why Toyota's 'game changing' Aurion has had so little impact.

Marin makes a lot of noise about being in the large car market because, though it is shrinking, there are fewer players - BUT putting Falcon onto a FWD platform will effectively drag Falcon into the medium car market. It won't matter that its classified as a large car for VFACTS, Falcon would have lost one of its unique selling points in RWD and will be percieved as one of the bigger medium cars on the market by the general public putting into direct competition with cars like the Mazda 6, the Subaru Liberty, Volkswagen Jetta, and Toyota Camry.

And its for these reasons that I believe the decision to keep Falcon RWD will be taken.

I am pretty sure that when Toyota came to Aust & decided to make the Lecxen (vn commodore) they sold a lot more of those than they do Aurions.

[capri280]

If they change falcon to FWD they put them selves up against their mondeo
that just doesn't make sense to me :

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Ugly

If they change falcon to FWD they put them selves up against their mondeo
that just doesn't make sense to me :

Uh huh, and that new FWD Falcon would be on the same EUCD/CD4 platform as the next Mondeo/ Fusion.....
They wouldn't use D3 Taurus because it's becoming way too heavy and won't give sufficient fuel economy or performance.

Nah, they'll stick with RWD unless there is a dang good reason to change.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

I am pretty sure that when Toyota came to Aust & decided to make the Lecxen (vn commodore) they sold a lot more of those than they do Aurions.

Yeah but car makers generally sold a lot more large cars back then. The market is different now - the large car segment has been in general decline for 15 years.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yeah but car makers generally sold a lot more large cars back then. The market is different now - the large car segment has been in general decline for 15 years.

True but perception is not always correct, most people drive on a highway some where whether for work or play, does not matter, it is still cheaper to drive a long legged six on a highway than metro style small fwd.

[prydey]

i would say the large car segment has been affected more by a larger variety of vehicles on the market, rather than a push for smaller cars like the media make out.

also, a lot of the smaller cars these days are actually bigger or just as big as the large car was 15yrs ago. i have an eb in the shed, and compared to my bf (fg is bigger again) it is tiny. the current corolla is about the same size.

tariffs have reduced so vehicles from offshore are much more competitively priced (whether you agree with it or not), and the suv/4wd segment has grown almost as much as the smaller car segment, if not moreso.

everyone likes to blame fuel pricing but i think its more to do with choice than anything.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

.............. It won't matter that its classified as a large car for VFACTS, Falcon would have lost one of its unique selling points in RWD and will be percieved as one of the bigger medium cars on the market by the general public putting into direct competition with cars like the Mazda 6, the Subaru Liberty, Volkswagen Jetta, and Toyota Camry.

And its for these reasons that I believe the decision to keep Falcon RWD will be taken.

Very well put Chilliman.

All products need a unique selling proposition. Falcons is that it is a traditional RWD/Large car..

One of the real advantages of FWD is packaging of the engine/trans giving greater interior space, something which matters more in a Fiesta than a Falcon.

To make the Falcon into a large/Medium FWD is to throw it to the wolves, by making it compete in toughest market with Camry, Accord, Passat, Mazda 6 et all on a basis of quality/gadgets etc. Without the aid of a unique selling proposition. Whilst not to say that fwd Falcon would neccessarily be a bad car, all you need to do is look at the relative lack of success of Mondeo's and the Taurus before it.

I know its hard to say never, but would buy a runnout FG before a an FWD anything.

The marketers need to stop trying to tell the public what they want.

And whilst on that topic, back in the USA, an Ecoboost F100 getting 30+ MPG WILL sell like hotcakes because its what people want. The 'ecocar' style thing will fade as economical versions of the cars they want become available.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by prydey

i would say the large car segment has been affected more by a larger variety of vehicles on the market, rather than a push for smaller cars like the media make out.

also, a lot of the smaller cars these days are actually bigger or just as big as the large car was 15yrs ago. i have an eb in the shed, and compared to my bf (fg is bigger again) it is tiny. the current corolla is about the same size.

tariffs have reduced so vehicles from offshore are much more competitively priced (whether you agree with it or not), and the suv/4wd segment has grown almost as much as the smaller car segment, if not moreso.

everyone likes to blame fuel pricing but i think its more to do with choice than anything.

Again well put.

A few years ago Toyota did a comparison showing the then "New" Corolla had more interior space than an EH Holden. A far cry from the KE10.

At the other end the SUV's and Mini vans have played havoc with traditional station wagon market.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Elks

And whilst on that topic, back in the USA, an Ecoboost F100 getting 30+ MPG WILL sell like hotcakes because its what people want. The 'ecocar' style thing will fade as economical versions of the cars they want become available.

Yep - people want what they want, anything else like fuel economy, is just icing on the cake.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Burela is an engineer / 'on floor' production guy.

NOT an accountant or a PD CAD warrior.

And Burela is also a Bell Park boy and he knows that RWD and Falcon just dont go together......

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

And Burela is also a Bell Park boy and he knows that RWD and Falcon just dont go together......

I hope that an experienced forum member such as yourself meant to say 'that FWD and Falcon just don't go together.....'

[Luke Plaizier]

So let me get this straight. From the Burela article by Stinky Spinks listed higher this page, Burela says

"There are those who are very strong large-car enthusiasts who take the view that says rear-wheel-drive"

Then "[and there are] those who are just looking for the comfort of a large car and are not disturbed by having a front-wheel-drive [Falcon]."

Sounds like a no brainer to me.

Make a RWD, keep EVERYONE happy - including those that don't care.
Make a FWD, and a significant portion of your previous buyers, long term loyalists and passionate supports will be alienated.


How hard could THAT decision be?


Lukeyson

[jpd80]

It's not the +4,500/month Falcon/ Ute/Territory sales that's the problem,
it's the 315/month Mondeo, 500/month Focus and 800/month Fiesta.
Those three are being killed by Toyota, Honda and Mazda products.

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You really enjoy laying the boots into Falcon don't you.

The thing I don't understand is Marin saying people won't care if Falcon is FWD, yet it has basically become a joke among car enthusiasts. People basically laugh when a FWD Falcon is mentioned, and Holden fans make jokes about it to Ford fans. Its so obvious the Falcon would become nothing but a joke if it was FWD. It would sell as well as the Aurion does. Plus no ute, no V8's, no FPV's. It would be dead in the water.

The media would have a field day saying how dumb it is, and the general public would stay away in droves. It would be corporate suicide, and FoA know it. How they could even consider it is beyond me, especially when GRWD makes so much sense.

Sounds to me like it's exactly what Dearborn has wanted for years- a reason to close the joint down and give their countrymen more jobs.

[BHDOGS]

Ofcourse ford lovers would die if it was fwd but the rest of the gullible people who drive horrid cars wouldn't care how its powered or even know so it would only make a big difference to the faithful.

[jpd80]

We're looking at this the wrong way round, a better strategy is to keep the Falcon
as a large RWD car and offer the EB I-4 Falcon as a Mid Sized alternative.

You can see that Ford thinks a lot of those lost XT sales will come back as I-4 Falcon sales,
the four cylinder opens up the car to people/fleets who would not normally considered a Falcon.

If done correctly, it will be Camry, Accord and Mazda 6 feeling the pinch.......

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

So let me get this straight. From the Burela article by Stinky Spinks listed higher this page, Burela says

"There are those who are very strong large-car enthusiasts who take the view that says rear-wheel-drive"

Then "[and there are] those who are just looking for the comfort of a large car and are not disturbed by having a front-wheel-drive [Falcon]."

Sounds like a no brainer to me.

Make a RWD, keep EVERYONE happy - including those that don't care.
Make a FWD, and a significant portion of your previous buyers, long term loyalists and passionate supports will be alienated.


How hard could THAT decision be?


Lukeyson

I'm starting to think that Ford will have both a large car platform with FWD/AWD and a large car with RWD. They'll have XT's, G6 and XR6 on a FWD platform and upper model G6E, XR8, Fairlaine, LTD on GRWD

Or thats what how I'm interpreting the plethora of a general non-specific statements coming from Ford management

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I hope that an experienced forum member such as yourself meant to say 'that FWD and Falcon just don't go together.....'

Oh crap.......Wooops?

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

I'm starting to think that Ford will have both a large car platform with FWD/AWD and a large car with RWD. They'll have XT's, G6 and XR6 on a FWD platform and upper model G6E, XR8, Fairlaine, LTD on GRWD

Or thats what how I'm interpreting the plethora of a general non-specific statements coming from Ford management

Nope, that's just silly. That model makes no sense for so many reasons. I'd elaborate but dinner is ready!

[capri280]

Can someone please tell me what the difference is between the falcon and the G6E?
they look the same to me so whats the point in it?especially if they are having selling problems with the falcon!

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Ugly

Can someone please tell me what the difference is between the falcon and the G6E?
they look the same to me so whats the point in it?especially if they are having selling problems with the falcon!

G6E is the Fairmont Ghia replacment. Its still a Falcon. Same as a Calais.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

G6E is the Fairmont Ghia replacment. Its still a Falcon. Same as a Calais.

And its one of the reasons (along with XR6) that Falcon is selling as well as it is.

[Chilliman]

Seeing as Ford have just announced a full-year profit for 2009 and are again forecasting one for 2010, it looks like the GRWD has just gotten a step closer.

[Bossxr8]

Just look at the sales figures for the Mondeo, and the failure of the Taurus, and it clearly proves Ford buyers do not want large FWD vehicles. Both those cars were basically as big as the Falcon yet they totally bombed.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just look at the sales figures for the Mondeo, and the failure of the Taurus, and it clearly proves Ford buyers do not want large FWD vehicles. Both those cars were basically as big as the Falcon yet they totally bombed.

Mazda 6 KILLS the mondeo in styling and just about everything else too.... It sells well.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Mazda 6 KILLS the mondeo in styling and just about everything else too.... It sells well.

I think the current model went backwards with looks, and im pretty sure sales have too. (although it still the 2nd best seller in its class)

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Uh huh, and that new FWD Falcon would be on the same EUCD/CD4 platform as the next Mondeo/ Fusion.....
They wouldn't use D3 Taurus because it's becoming way too heavy and won't give sufficient fuel economy or performance.

Nah, they'll stick with RWD unless there is a dang good reason to change.

Maybe(thinkng outside the square) Falcon stays RWD AND REPLACES TAURUS in the states?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Mazda 6 KILLS the mondeo in styling

styling/looks are subjective.