Russia v Ukraine

[Mulva]

Did lol at this...allegedly a joke from Moscow:

"According to Putin, the special military operation is really a conflict between Russia and NATO about World dominance."

"What's the situation now?"

"Well, Russia has lost 15000 troops, 6 generals, 500 tanks, 3 ships, 100 planes and 1000 trucks. NATO hasn't arrived yet."

[MITCHAY]

Well for a "special mission" they have achieved **** all

If we can keep the weapons pipeline going, they seem very effective at using it. No one gave them a chance at all but here we are a month later and the increasingly desperate tactics being used by Russia.

Give them ****en hell, Slava Ukraini!

I hope they cut off the gas and oil because despite all the sanctions and weapons, that is still fuelling the Russian war machine.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Interesting updates Cav, where are you getting these from?

This part makes me think about Baba Vanga's prediction. She forsaw the great pandemic coming from siberia once the snow has melted.

Its also a very specific claim hmmmmmm

I have a mate who is of Eastern European descent.

You know what they say - the first casualty of war is truth.

I dunno about the other stuff.

I'm not a conspiracy expert except on Roswell, moon landing, flat earth and 911.

[JasonACT]

I run an IT software team, mostly with team members from India, and they have said what news we get here is vastly different to what their relatives see.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

I run an IT software team, mostly with team members from India, and they have said what news we get here is vastly different to what their relatives see.

Seeing that India purchases a lot of military hardware from Russia I'm not surprised they will see things from a different perspective.
Russia will have influence with India in all areas.

[T3rminator]

Its a little more than just military equipment sales. Some history on the Russia / Soviet and India relationship.

Why is India standing with Putin’s Russia?
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...in-trending-in

From the very beginning, Moscow saw its alliance with India as essential for offsetting American and Chinese dominance in Asia. And India always enjoyed the leverage that support from a major power like Russia provided in international politics.

In 1961, after India used its military to end Portuguese colonial sovereignty over Goa, Daman and Diu, for example, the US, the UK, France, and Turkey put forth a resolution condemning India and calling upon its government to withdraw its troops immediately. But the Soviet Union opposed the proposal.

In 1971, India and the Soviet Union signed the “Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Co-operation”. The treaty formalised India’s alliance with what was then a superpower and arguably ensured its preeminence in South Asia.

The Soviet Union and later Russia’s support for India on the issue of Kashmir has also been unrelenting and politically significant. In 1955, declaring support for Indian sovereignty over Kashmir, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev said, “We are so near that if ever you call us from the mountain tops we will appear at your side.” Since then, Moscow has been a bulwark against international intervention in Kashmir.

The Soviet Union vetoed UN Security Council resolutions in 1957, 1962 and 1971 that called for international intervention in Kashmir, insisting that it is a bilateral issue that needs to be solved through negotiations between India and Pakistan. And it took a similar stance on the Indo-Pak conflict in general. Such a stance was appreciated across the political spectrum in India.

In 1978, then Foreign Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee – a founding member of the right-wing, Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) who served as India’s prime minister between 1998 and 2004 – for example, put aside his ideological differences with the Soviet Union, and greeted a Soviet delegation to India saying, “our country found the only reliable friend in the Soviet Union alone”.

Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia has worked to maintain its special relationship with India.

In 2000, Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and then Prime Minister Vajpayee signed a “Declaration of Strategic Partnership”. In 2010, marking a decade of this strategic partnership, both countries signed the “Special and Strategic Partnership”. As part of this special partnership, Russia reaffirmed its pro-India stance on Kashmir. In 2019, when India scrapped Article 370 of its constitution that gave Jammu and Kashmir special status, the Modi government faced severe criticism in the international arena, but Russia once again deemed this to be an “internal matter” for India.

[FairmontGS]

War in Ukraine: Change of emphasis or admission of failure by Moscow?

It's probably way too early to conclude that Russia has given up on capturing Kyiv, but Western officials say that Russia continues to experience setback after setback.

On Friday, they said Russia had lost another general - the seventh - and that morale was at rock bottom in some units.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60882156

Defiant Ukrainian troops tell Russians: 'Go home while you're still alive'

It is a month since Vladimir Putin's forces invaded Ukraine with nearly 200,000 men. One of the first cities to feel the full force of the invasion was Kharkiv in the north-east. Our correspondent Quentin Sommerville and cameraman Darren Conway have spent time with two fighters who have been at the front line since the very beginning.

The two men live everyday with Russians targeting their positions. Full-time soldiers, the Ukrainian army is their life.

The Ukrainian soldiers might have it rough, but the Russians seem to have been particularly unprepared for anything other than the shortest possible campaign in Ukraine. The corpses I have encountered in the snow have been poorly dressed for a winter campaign, and Ukrainian soldiers say they found the most meagre of rations with them.

Do they think of the soldiers on the other side, I wonder? Vlad says he has a message for them, "Run. Run away. Either you stay here in the ground or you go back home." He pauses but then adds, "Don't kill kids, destroy homes and families." This time it is Mark who is to the point, "Go back home while you are still alive."

So how have they held off the Russians so successfully?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60860548

[Jeff 6201]

On the other hand the vast majority of the inhabitants of Ukraine living East of the Dnieper river were the descendants of the Cossacks. They were ethnically and religiously different to the people from West of the Dnieper and had many cultural and historic differences to the "Western Ukrainians".
History is fairly clear that the Cossacks had a fairly close relationship with the Russians going back many hundreds of years, and formed part of the Russian Army in Czarist Russia. Cossacks were great horsemen and their cavalry units were feared by many of the European armies.
The smart thing would be for the rest of the world to recognize these facts and support the partitioning of Ukraine into two separate countries with the Dnieper river being the border between the two. Getting politicians to do something smart - what a pipe dream that is.

Let us hope that Russia does not follow the precedence of the War Crimes Court in the Hague. If they do we are at risk. That Court found that 3 Eastern Ukrainians and one Russian weapons expert were responsible for shooting down MH17 and Russia was responsible also as it supplied the weapon(s). Hell! Thanks to Scomo's mob and with the opposition's support, we are responsible for Russian deaths now as we have supplied weapons to the Ukrainians. Russia retaliates and one flash Canberra's ash.

[Jeff 6201]

Hi folks,
I am very sorry but I stuffed up big time when I cut and pasted that what was my contribution to this topic. Anyhow here is the complete document.


History can tell us so much and we so often risk much when we ignore it.
The problems in the Ukraine are not new and seem to have been completely overlooked by “The West”.
Nikita Khrushchev was born in Kalinovka, a town only 11 Kms from Ukraine, his support of Ukraine was always strong, in fact he was the “First Secretary” of the Communist Party of Ukraine in 1947-49, prior to becoming the “First Secretary” of the Soviet Union from 1953 until 1964.
It was Nikita Khrushchev who gave Crimea to Ukraine. (Bloody idiot)
The area West of the Dnieper River was mainly flat land inhabited by peasant farmers. It was fertile land and usually produced good grain crops. It was often referred to as the “Bread basket of Russia”.
During WW1 many of the Ukrainian peasant farmers fought in the Russian Army and their losses were massive. After Russia ended its involvement in WW1 these losses left many farms being run by Western Ukrainian widows.
After the Treaty of Versailles (1919) not only Germany was required to make massive reparation repayments to the allies but also all member countries of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Ottoman Empire were included in the reparation requirements.
With the intention of avoiding having “To work to rebuild France” many men from Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Romania migrated to Western Ukraine to work on the farms. Many married the widows and became Ukrainian citizens. This was to be expected as these migrants were of the same ethnicity and also shared the same religious, cultural beliefs and their language was similar and the written form was based on the Arabic Alphabet. Thus they assimilated very well.
On the other hand the vast majority of the inhabitants of Ukraine living East of the Dnieper river were the descendants of the Cossacks. They were ethnically and religiously different to the people from West of the Dnieper and have many cultural and historic differences to the "Western Ukrainians". Even their language is somewhat different (about 60% common spoken words) and the written form uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
History is fairly clear that the Cossacks had a fairly close relationship with the Russians going back many hundreds of years, and formed part of the Russian Army in Czarist Russia. Cossacks were great horsemen and their cavalry units were feared by many of the European armies.
The smart thing would be for the rest of the world to recognize these facts and support the partitioning of Ukraine into two separate countries with the Dnieper river being the border between the two. Getting politicians to do something smart - what a pipe dream that is.
Let us hope that Russia does not follow the precedence of the War Crimes Court in the Hague. If they do we are at risk. That Court found that 3 Eastern Ukrainians and one Russian weapons expert were responsible for shooting down MH17 and Russia was responsible also as it supplied the weapon(s). Hell! Thanks to Scomo's mob and with the opposition's support, we are responsible for Russian deaths now as we have supplied weapons to the Ukrainians. Russia retaliates and one flash Canberra's ash.

[T3rminator]

Hmmmmm

An Indian rupee-ruble trade arrangement with Russia may be ready in a week
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/23/fieo...eady-soon.html

Have noticed a growing number of emerging economies giving the sanctions and boycotts the finger. Read that Russia is now considering taking bitcoins as payment for their exports to beat the sanctions. Ripe for black market trading, just means you / we have to pay more to the intermediaries.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Jeff 6201

Hi folks,
I am very sorry but I stuffed up big time when I cut and pasted that what was my contribution to this topic. Anyhow here is the complete document.

That's ok, can't be easy working in a Russian troll farm, but I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

Originally Posted by Jeff 6201

Let us hope that Russia does not follow the precedence of the War Crimes Court in the Hague. If they do we are at risk. That Court found that 3 Eastern Ukrainians and one Russian weapons expert were responsible for shooting down MH17 and Russia was responsible also as it supplied the weapon(s). Hell! Thanks to Scomo's mob and with the opposition's support, we are responsible for Russian deaths now as we have supplied weapons to the Ukrainians. Russia retaliates and one flash Canberra's ash.

We should be fine as I can't see us doing that - I can't see Australian troops being in charge of a bunch of Ukrainians shooting down an airliner full of innocent civilians.

Oh, by the way - can you let your handler know that respecting the independence and sovereignty of Ukraine is literally the first point of the Budapest Memorandum they signed.

[Citroënbender]

I’m dismayed that people can be so detached from this. It’s not a gladiatorial contest on TV, it’s reality. Real people having their lives, assets, peace smashed to bits by an external aggressor stuck in a warped view of the past.

Jeff 6201: Your history is highly selective. I add to it: Pogroms, the Holodomor, forced relocations, the Shoah (Holocaust) and general Soviet bastardry. It’s no wonder that since 1990 there have been ructions as it found its feet once more. Yet the country that has just been invaded was not riven with civil war or petty grudges rising to violence. There are not residents rushing to greet the Russians with bouquets and gifts of food. Ukraine possesses as much right to independence as Moldova or Estonia - no wonder they are genuinely concerned, despite being within the EU.

[Jeff 6201]

Hi Mulva, sorry to correct you but I am here in Good o'l SE Qld.

As for you not believing that Aussie soldiers would shoot down civilian aircraft. (As a former Aust Army Officer, a bloody long time ago, I certainly hope so). However our US Allies did exactly that on 3 July 1988.

That was an extremely unfortunate case of incorrect identification, but it happened all the same and 290 innocent people died as a result.
BTW the ship was USS Vincennes.

Unfortunately it seems that accidents do, and always will, happen.
For the record I was not supporting the actions of Russia but explaining that there is a fair bit of history to this and there are many similar "powder kegs" just waiting for a spark around the world.

[Jeff 6201]

Citroenbender, Yes, my comments were very selective but you seem to ignore the fact that from everything that I have read and SEEN there is a very large percent of the population living East of the Dnieper who do not want to be part of Ukraine and or be governed by Kiev. For about 8 to 10 years at least there has been a separatist movement and regular acts of insurrection in East Ukraine and the Army and Militia supported by the Kiev Government have been responsible for many East Ukrainian deaths.

All of this is deplorable and unwarranted when there is a simple solution available. And yes there is a precedent. when part of Virginia USA supported the Union and part supported the Confederacy during the US Civil War (is any war really civil?) Virginia was partitioned and now we have Virginia and West Virginia.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Jeff 6201

Hi folks,
I am very sorry but I stuffed up big time when I cut and pasted that what was my contribution to this topic. Anyhow here is the complete document.


History can tell us so much and we so often risk much when we ignore it.
The problems in the Ukraine are not new and seem to have been completely overlooked by “The West”.
Nikita Khrushchev was born in Kalinovka, a town only 11 Kms from Ukraine, his support of Ukraine was always strong, in fact he was the “First Secretary” of the Communist Party of Ukraine in 1947-49, prior to becoming the “First Secretary” of the Soviet Union from 1953 until 1964.
It was Nikita Khrushchev who gave Crimea to Ukraine. (Bloody idiot)
The area West of the Dnieper River was mainly flat land inhabited by peasant farmers. It was fertile land and usually produced good grain crops. It was often referred to as the “Bread basket of Russia”.
During WW1 many of the Ukrainian peasant farmers fought in the Russian Army and their losses were massive. After Russia ended its involvement in WW1 these losses left many farms being run by Western Ukrainian widows.
After the Treaty of Versailles (1919) not only Germany was required to make massive reparation repayments to the allies but also all member countries of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Ottoman Empire were included in the reparation requirements.
With the intention of avoiding having “To work to rebuild France” many men from Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Romania migrated to Western Ukraine to work on the farms. Many married the widows and became Ukrainian citizens. This was to be expected as these migrants were of the same ethnicity and also shared the same religious, cultural beliefs and their language was similar and the written form was based on the Arabic Alphabet. Thus they assimilated very well.
On the other hand the vast majority of the inhabitants of Ukraine living East of the Dnieper river were the descendants of the Cossacks. They were ethnically and religiously different to the people from West of the Dnieper and have many cultural and historic differences to the "Western Ukrainians". Even their language is somewhat different (about 60% common spoken words) and the written form uses the Cyrillic alphabet.
History is fairly clear that the Cossacks had a fairly close relationship with the Russians going back many hundreds of years, and formed part of the Russian Army in Czarist Russia. Cossacks were great horsemen and their cavalry units were feared by many of the European armies.
The smart thing would be for the rest of the world to recognize these facts and support the partitioning of Ukraine into two separate countries with the Dnieper river being the border between the two. Getting politicians to do something smart - what a pipe dream that is.
Let us hope that Russia does not follow the precedence of the War Crimes Court in the Hague. If they do we are at risk. That Court found that 3 Eastern Ukrainians and one Russian weapons expert were responsible for shooting down MH17 and Russia was responsible also as it supplied the weapon(s). Hell! Thanks to Scomo's mob and with the opposition's support, we are responsible for Russian deaths now as we have supplied weapons to the Ukrainians. Russia retaliates and one flash Canberra's ash.

Jeff, you are only quoting one part of the history, start digging back further in history for the full story of these regions of Ukraine then tell us if Putin has the right to invade.

[Mulva]

C'mon Jeff, in which direction did the civilians that lived east of the Dnieper flee?

Reason there has been unrest in 2 areas in eastern Ukraine in the last 8 years is the 'little green men' Putin deployed to annex Crimea were then used to destabilise Donbass and Lugansk. The guys Putin first denied were his, but then in April 2014 admitted were Russian special forces without insignia.

Since then a large number of pro-Ukrainian civilians have moved out of the area (moved west) due to the cycle of misery and violence that has come with Russian control, the pro-Ukrainians that remain cannot be outwardly so, and many Russians have been "relocated" to the area.

If all Putin wanted was to sure-up those areas he could have done so easily and quickly - particularly if he were liberating pro-Russian civilians, there would have been minimal resistance.

Now that he has realised his forces are not as strong as they appeared to be on paper due to ongoing corruption and embezzlement, and he is facing a logistical nightmare that has him in a stalemate, he is now repositioning the "goal" from denazifying Ukraine to denazifying Donbass. They already controlled most of Donbass; why would they burn all those resources and cause so much death (on both sides) to "liberate" that very small patch of Donbass Russia did not control? Why attack all of Ukraine when he could have focused his forces and efforts on just the bits he wanted where his forces were supposedly "wanted", then defend?

He wanted Kyiv; he wanted all of Ukraine; and he wanted Zlensky's head (BTW, sending a bunch of Nazis - Wagner Group death squad - to kill Ukraine's Jewish leader is not a very anti-Nazi thing to do).

[Citroënbender]

Moreover, the conduct of Russia under stewardship of Vladimir Vladimirovich has been morally wrong.

When a leader effectively endorses multiple assassinations and attempts (Aleksandr Litvinenko, Alexei Navalniy, Sergei and Yulia Skripal come readily to mind) it’s no longer appropriate to place them on the same footing as a figurehead who does not engage in this form of highly public intimidation.

[xkxlxm]

Sleepy Joe let the cat out of the bag: 'Regime Change'. Ukraine is just the filling in a US - Russian sandwich. The US wouldn't really care about Ukrainian deaths and suffering. It's ideal for real-world weapons trials, weapons sales, inflicting pain on Russia and getting rid of Putin.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by xkxlxm

Sleepy Joe let the cat out of the bag: 'Regime Change'. Ukraine is just the filling in a US - Russian sandwich. The US wouldn't really care about Ukrainian deaths and suffering. It's ideal for real-world weapons trials, weapons sales, inflicting pain on Russia and getting rid of Putin.

That was incredibly stupid of Biden to say - very stupid, very irresponsible. Best course for a quick resolution to this mess would have been an internal coup where Russians acting in the interests of Russia removed Putin - now if that were to occur it will appear as though it was the work of the US. Very stupid of Biden.

If you were to ignore what "Sleepy Joe" may have said or done, and who is an "Alpha Male" and who is a "Woke Beta" - why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine, and do you think it justifies the death and destruction and the hardships both nations will face moving forward?

The far right and far left are both loons - they sling names at each other but don't realise through their fanaticism they share more with each other than they do with the moderate middle majority who just look at both as dangerous morons responsible for most of what is wrong in this world.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by xkxlxm

The US wouldn't really care about Ukrainian deaths and suffering.

The late Madeleine Albright was once asked if sanctions imposed on Iraq, causing 500,000 children to die, was worth it.

"The price is worth it" she said.

[FairmontGS]

Day 27 to Day 32:




https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...anbul-liveblog

[Cav]

From the Russian side....


Map of military operations in Ukraine for March 26

Albert Korsa yesterday at 02:48

Current map of military operations for the past day

On Saturday, they hit New York, which is located in Donetsk, until recently called The Novogorodetsk settlement. It was also reported about strong explosions and glow on the outskirts of this settlement. It is worth noting that explosions were heard in all parts of Ukraine.

For many days now, the Russian Armed Forces have been mercilessly destroying fuel and lubricant stocks on the territory of Ukraine. There were 10 storage facilities in the last day. There were explosions and blazing in the Lviv, Rivne region, Zhytomyr, Lutsk, Kharkiv, Kiev and many other settlements.
The hottest fronts are still in Izyum and Mariupol. Although there is noticeable progress there. In Mariupol, Azov residents were squeezed in the industrial sector. Cleaning up the city is proceeding at a fairly rapid pace, building by building, block by block. The main news from there is all the new details about the horrors and tragedy of the situation in which they found themselves. local population.

Interesting details were received about Izyum, Boris Rozhin reports: the situation there began to change dramatically in favor of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. The southern part of the city is still being cleaned up, but the progress is quite fast. But most importantly, this is the situation south of the Raisin.

The Russian military finally took Kamenka and advanced along the highway in the direction of Slavyansk. Sukhaya Kamenka was taken, the Armed Forces of Ukraine at night tried to conduct a counterattack with the support of tanks, but were partially scattered, some were destroyed.

In the afternoon, unmanned aerial vehicles detected a large concentration of Armed Forces of Ukraine in the village of Barvenkovo, and Iskander flew there within a short time, hitting the very center of the enemy's position. In addition, the Russian artillery worked perfectly at night, destroying the enemy's Grad battery.

For two days, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have very heavy losses. In Kamenka, heavy flamethrower equipment worked well, artillery worked well in counter-battery warfare, and several arrivals of Iskanders added to the success in a special military operation.

[Mulva]

Credit: Big Footy

[xkxlxm]

"why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine, and do you think it justifies the death and destruction and the hardships both nations will face moving forward?"

I said in an earlier post, two or three weeks ago, and I say it again now that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not worth it; that I am against it.

It is not worth the death and devastation on the Ukrainian side or the Russian side.

The US Deep State, however, probably doesn't think the same as me. Putin doesn't think the same as me, either.

As long as the wars in the Middle East or in Ukraine don't spread to anywhere near the USA, I don't think the US Deep State cares at all. It's good for business and they WOULD like regime change in Russia, just like they wanted regime change - and got it - in Iraq and Libya, and like they wanted regime change in Syria - but didn't get it, partly due to Russian involvement there.

[Burnout]

Russia invaded Ukraine because Biden is weak and they saw advantage in that. They sat outside Ukraine for weeks listening to Biden fafe & fluf his way around and then moved in.
Since then they have taken liberties after every weak move by Biden & Nato. "Give us Polish jets" Biden says No, even Boris Hairdo want it to happen), so Russia moves in more gear. Give us a No fly zone, Biden says No, so Russia starts rocket/Bombing without fear.
All Pootin had to do at the very start was to warn Biden that any move by the West would bring on armagedden & Biden went right to water.
Biden & the Democrats are killing 1000's of Ukrainians.......... because they are weak as water.

[Mulva]

Imagine how much worse things would be if Ukraine didn't receive the javelins? When the US Congress bi-laterally approved arms sales to Ukraine, then Trump said he would not give them the javelins until they gave him dirt on the Bidens. That was his first impeachment, yeah?

Trump was a moron that was dividing and destabilising NATO. Biden is a shocker when he goes off script, but thankfully there are smarter lucid people advising him which has prevented escalation into direct conflict between NATO and Russia; and thankfully NATO are following their rules of engagement.

Republications suck, Democrats suck, Trump sucks, Biden sucks...US politics sucks in general. Putin sucks so so so much more, and it is he and he alone that is responsible for the Russian forces he commands killing innocent Ukrainians, not to mention the poor young Russian conscripts he is sending to the grave, and the people of Russia that are facing ongoing economic hardship all for his lust to return to the "glory days" of the USSR.

[xkxlxm]

I agree with most of what you say.

Honestly, I find it a bit hard to get as outraged as I should be by the Russian aggression because we, the West, have invaded so many countries - in the last 20/21 years alone - and been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents, and devastation on a massive, massive scale. And when the people in the countries we have devastated flee the carnage, we tell them to f * # k off, "we don't want you". Or they get here and we lock them up for 9 years and then release them, not here, but to NZ, just before an election.

And we pretend to be holier than thou. We pretend to be the good guys. We wear the white hats.

I recall when, after the 'euphoria' of the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003 - remember Bush's "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner on the US ship? - the US was losing troops to the fightback by Iraqis, IEDs etc. The US troops, like the Russian troops today in Ukraine (if we can believe what our media is telling us about Russian losses) were just cannon fodder. Not to mention the suicides by returning US Iraq veterans.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Russia invaded Ukraine because Biden is weak and they saw advantage in that. They sat outside Ukraine for weeks listening to Biden fafe & fluf his way around and then moved in.
Since then they have taken liberties after every weak move by Biden & Nato. "Give us Polish jets" Biden says No, even Boris Hairdo want it to happen), so Russia moves in more gear. Give us a No fly zone, Biden says No, so Russia starts rocket/Bombing without fear.
All Pootin had to do at the very start was to warn Biden that any move by the West would bring on armagedden & Biden went right to water.
Biden & the Democrats are killing 1000's of Ukrainians.......... because they are weak as water.

You forgot to mention Donald Trump as he had a hand in bad US foreign affairs especially with Nato.
Old sleepy Joe inherited a mess from Trumps administration.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by Itsme

You forgot to mention Donald Trump as he had a hand in bad US foreign affairs especially with Nato.
Old sleepy Joe inherited a mess from Trumps administration.

I cant even recall mentioning Trump in my little tome. I do recall speaking of Biden.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Imagine how much worse things would be if Ukraine didn't receive the javelins? When the US Congress bi-laterally approved arms sales to Ukraine, then Trump said he would not give them the javelins until they gave him dirt on the Bidens. That was his first impeachment, yeah?

Trump was a moron that was dividing and destabilising NATO. Biden is a shocker when he goes off script, but thankfully there are smarter lucid people advising him which has prevented escalation into direct conflict between NATO and Russia; and thankfully NATO are following their rules of engagement.

Republications suck, Democrats suck, Trump sucks, Biden sucks...US politics sucks in general. Putin sucks so so so much more, and it is he and he alone that is responsible for the Russian forces he commands killing innocent Ukrainians, not to mention the poor young Russian conscripts he is sending to the grave, and the people of Russia that are facing ongoing economic hardship all for his lust to return to the "glory days" of the USSR.

I can't believe I am answering this post.

Q: Would Putin have invaded Ukraine if Trump was still president?

https://nypost.com/2022/02/26/putin-...8c1eb41c30dfff

Trump complained to NATO that the US was doing all the heavy lifting and wanted the EU countries to increase their spending on defence to 2% of GDP.

It was Biden as D/P who warned Ukraine would not get $1bn unless they sack the prosecutor Gen Shokin.

Trump urged Ukraine’s president to investigate Biden’s son Hunter and his involvement with a Ukraine natural gas company. This was touted by Democrats and MSMedia as Trump trying to influence the election.

18 months later the New York Times finally admits that Hunter is a crook (my words)

https://www.dailynews.com/2022/03/26...058c57150fe443