Holden closure

[BENT_8]

Well guys, I witnessed the human side to all this last night.
I wouldn't usually disclose personal conversations but I think this is one time it can be excused.
Last night my nephew and I stood in my carport with my very good mate and shed tears.
My mate is a 50yo veteran of 26 years service to Holden at Elizabeth.
In his own words, Holden has been half his life.

He will be in his mid 50's when he is made redundant, his father faced the same fate from BHP 30 years before.
He went home on Wednesday night and had a beer with his dad, they had new found things in common.
Now, let me tell you, this man is not soft, but his world has been rocked and the cracks are evident.
This is just one example, I know of 36yr veterans straight from school.

After discussing the many facets that led to the decision our conversation turned to his future prospects.
he explained that, despite being skilled in many aspects of vehicle manufacturing, his only relevant skill transfers are spray painting and spot welding.
In there lies the dilemma.
You have an honest, reliable and well respected veteran of 26yrs service who's only skill set is in vehicle manufacturing.
Who openly admits he couldn't switch a pc on and doesn't drive, who lives in an area of high unemployment, in a State where unemployment rose 1% last qtr.
How is his outlook?

Wether the government throws millions at the problem or not, lots of people will fail to find alternative employment and those who do will need to adapt to lower income in many cases.

[Road Games]

Sorry to hear mate ... :(

[b0son]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

How is his outlook?

How many thousands is he getting in redundancy (according to Holden, on average, close to $300k per worker)? Consider the outlook for someone on the award, who's redundancy payment is nowhere near as generous.

Wether the government throws millions at the problem or not, lots of people will fail to find alternative employment and those who do will need to adapt to lower income in many cases.

Immigrants do this all the time... professionals in their home country, unrecognized qualifications here, forced to do menial work and start from scratch.

People are made redundant all the time, most are given far less help than Holden employees will receive.

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Wether the government throws millions at the problem or not, lots of people will fail to find alternative employment and those who do will need to adapt to lower income in many cases.

This is going to be the major problem for most people I fear. Holden employees were getting paid very handsomely for the type of work they were doing. A lot of people are going to be in for a rude shock unfortunately.

But they are getting a lot of notice (years!) and a pretty decent payout at the end of it all. Way more than average joe in a non political football/well known company.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by b0son

How many thousands is he getting in redundancy (according to Holden, on average, close to $300k per worker)? Consider the outlook for someone on the award, who's redundancy payment is nowhere near as generous.



Immigrants do this all the time... professionals in their home country, unrecognized qualifications here, forced to do menial work and start from scratch.

People are made redundant all the time, most are given far less help than Holden employees will receive.

He is not concerned with his personal financial situation as he is a single bloke with minimal outlay and a good nest egg.
His issues are facing the likelihood of unemployment, resume's, job interviews and rejection. Something he hasn't had to navigate for three decades.
People overlook the personal inner struggle that long term employees go through when facing the uncertainties of redundancy.
Depression and worse is a real concern.

To be fair, immigrants make a choice to come here.

You are right, people are made redundant all the time, but cornerstone industries don't close down in every neighbourhood, everyday.
This isn't an isolated event, it will impact on the whole community. Economists have already given their opinions on the economic impact on the area.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

cornerstone industries don't close down in every neighbourhood, everyday.

Fair point.

TBH, I'm less disappointed in the fed government as I am in the Vic and SA state governments. Its state responsibility to look after local industry, and they certainly get plenty of revenue from the renewed property sector, speed camera revenue, etc. They keep telling us $1 invested returns multiples, yet neither government are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

[Rodge]

^^Plenty of panelbeaters sometimes struggle to find highly skilled spray painters...just a thought. Seeing as your mate is single and will get a substaintial redundency payout he should be well positioned to adapt to changing circumstances, something many people, (both employees and self employed), do on a far more regular basis with far less help.

[zoomie]

When i took a redundancy package from MMAL (mitsubishi) i finished up on a Thursday and found a new job (at a cnc machining place) the following week back in country SA.....
The biggest reality check was when i got my first pay packet... I'd dropped nearly 55% of the wage compared to what i was getting in the car industry but ya know what?

Ive survived and im now stronger than ever having been there and back (im now in a fairly well payed logistics job but im on permanent nightshift, i can live with that though).

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

How is his outlook?

Wether the government throws millions at the problem or not, lots of people will fail to find alternative employment and those who do will need to adapt to lower income in many cases.

His outlook is actually ok.

He will be financially stable while he works through outplacement services and determines what he wants to do. Hes fit, able, has skills and a work ethic. That puts him on par with most of the workforce.

Change is an interesting thing. I have been through it 4 times, and each time I have come out happier, more confident and ended up in engaging and interesting industries. I've worked in Transport and Logistics, IT, Manufacturing, Security, Mining and Resources and Construction and enjoyed all of it.

He may actually find its the thing that sets him free and makes him happy. The first step is a big one, but once you make it, its all an adventure from there.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Who said anything about whincup...it's toll HRT that's spending Holden money big time. Plus the other teams Holden back.
And maybe if more did read forums they'd see more of the way Holden treats our country....it's employees....it's goverment and us the taxpayers. They went down in true American style. Lies, blackmail and so on.
And I spose your comment means you agree with their money spending.....despite loosing money in handfuls.

oh dear; what has HRT got to do with holden?
walkinshaw finance everything.

FPR; is it ford or nash?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by b0son

How many thousands is he getting in redundancy (according to Holden, on average, close to $300k per worker)? Consider the outlook for someone on the award, who's redundancy payment is nowhere near as generous.
.

Where did that figure come from? That is certainly "nice" considering many people get flicked with very little other than 2 weeks pay.

Perhaps for another thread, but this country/government needs to find a new or emerging industry that needs labour and infrastructure investment to pick up the slack.

We also need to look to the UK and see what they discovered through the situation.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Errrr ... Nah ... I've owned both ... don't agree. If anything, the FG was better than the BA.

My BA and the old BF were/are still in good nick at the footwell...also they don't feel as thin as the FG. The missus FG (3.5 years old) is already rubbish in the foot well same as the turbo ute.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yep, lot of people are going to feel "lost" when Ford and Holden stop making "classic" V8 performance cars.
However once you actually start to look around and forget the hard-wired brainwashing Australians have had drummed into them for decades (ie: only HSV and FPV make "performance cars"), and force yourself to walk into a few other dealerships, you might be surprised by what you discover...

The missus did shop around looking for a replacement for her old Lancer (mind you it was only 5 years old) I gave her a few ideas and we went and had a look. The closest car she liked was a Mondeo but then she drove the FG and the deal was done.....hasn't regretted it....by the time its 5 years old she is now wanting an XR8. From my perspective I don't enjoy a lot of these import cars I would really like to find one cause there is gonna be a point were we will have to buy one. I'll just let the other half decide and I'll pump money into a Falcon.

Originally Posted by jpd80

At least Ford is continuing it engineering projects, maybe there's a different philosophy at work there
and probably why people in the past have being remarking that you usually build where you engineer...

This started all the way back in 2002. Certain people at FoA knew the industry wasn't going to survive so they worked on creating their R&D section of the business which has come a long way. I don't think Holden really did.....maybe the VE was their attempt.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Where did that figure come from?

Holden themselves estimated a $600mil shutdown cost, most of which was employee entitlements, for just under 2000 workers.

[Polyal]

$600m in pure labour stand down or plant costs? It just seems massively high.

[b0son]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226735052366

Most of the $600m is understood to be redundancy liabilities for Holden's 1750 factory workers

[johnydep]

Starting to see a few write ups going against the Holden love child syndrome that we saw previously. http://indaily.com.au/opinion/2013/1...-cultural-con/

It’s been one long con – and the Holden saga is still throwing up a dust cloud as we spin our wheels over the cultural shock of the car maker’s exit.

One is that the political commitment to subsidising car production has been a spectacular failure.

Secondly, the “Aussie icon” imagery is a mirage.

Thirdly, the coming shockwaves from job losses in the next four years is a gross over-statement.

Let’s start with the third perspective. In 2010 we reported that Holden’s move to a new small car platform to run alongside the Commodore platform would re-invigorate the slow erosion of jobs at Holden.

In the story it’s noted that in 2009, Holden employed more than 3,200 people at Elizabeth.

It now employs 1670; so the level of job losses at Holden due in the progressive closure in the next four years has actually occurred in the previous four years.

While there has been an increase in unemployment in SA in the last two years, most of those Holden lost jobs appear to have been absorbed into the economy with few micro-economic shock waves.

The second perspective is the cultural one and it goes back to the interview we did with Holden boss Mike Devereux in June 2010.

The Detroit-based owners of Holden have been playing the Aussie imagery for years and much of it has been based on similar American nationalism campaigns.

As Devereux revealed that day, Holden’s Aussie-ness is just a bit of ol’ American apple pie.

When he sat down for a chat with local media, he asked about the culinary notion of a party pie (which the PR staff had laid out as Holden’s thrifty lunch item).

He was proudly told by one of the motoring writers that the pie, like the Holden, was part of Australian culture.

“The jingle was football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars,” said the proud Aussie hack.

Devereux recognised the jingle immediately.

“Was that your version of baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet?” he asked.

It turned out that the Aussie Holden jingle imprinted on our psyche was an old ad for the General Motors Chevrolet; it was conceived in 1974 and a couple of years later, re-written for use Down Under.

And finally, let’s review the perspective of the political promise and miracle subsidies.

Most journos who have been around for more than a decade can reel off the succession of “we’ve signed the deal and saved thousands of jobs – it’s all good from here” media events featuring Ministers, auto executives and smiling workers.

There was the day they got the workers at Mitsubishi to throw their hats in the air in joy at the tens of millions handed over to save the Tonsley plant.

It had closed before the hats landed.

The most recent was the March 2012 effort at Holden where Federal Industry Minister Kim Carr joined with Mike Devereux and Jay Weatherill for another “we’re saved” event. The money was never paid and Holden actually sacked a few hundred workers shortly after.

In 2009 then-State Treasurer Kevin Foley raved about the prospects of selling thousands of Holden Caprice V-8s to US police forces.

Devereux cleared that up in 2010: “It was never going to happen last year; tenders don’t open until October this year.”

The mass-Caprice export thing never happened – and a quick look at how the US was planning to move out of its financial mire made it clear they wouldn’t be paying people in Australia to make US cop cars en masse.

Federal Industry Minister Kim Carr (again) had also used the Caprice cop car story when he justified government assistance to the industry in October 2009.

“The tender for the police car is going very, very well,” Carr told media at the time.

One of the biggest spins of the period was that of former Premier Mike Rann in August 2009.

He said he was “confident GM would agree to manufacture an electric version of the Holden small car at its Elizabeth plant”.

His confidence was based on a decision in December 2008 by the Rudd and Rann governments for a $179 million co-investment agreement for Holden to build an all-new, fuel-efficient, low-emission small car in Australia, “supporting up to 1200 jobs immediately”.

Production of the Cruze started a few years later – but the jobs never came and the electric version remained a fantasy.

In the years since that $179 million deal, the subsidies got bigger – and the workforce kept getting smaller.

Holden’s asking price to stick around kept increasing.

The new Federal Government had made it clear that it didn’t accept the premise that a company that had been steadily reducing its workforce while increasing its demands for subsidies, was worth the money.

Holden then did that it has been doing for four years – and announced a four phase out of the remaining 1,670 jobs.

In a suitable twist to last week’s drama, Holden insiders told media that the Holden brand would eventually be dumped in favour of the Chevrolet.

And so it was that the “baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet” conversion to “football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars” was reversed.

Finally, it’s worth recalling this statement from Mike Devereux on that day in June 2010: “We are in the business of designing, building and selling the world’s best vehicles and Adelaide is one of only seven locations where we do all of those things. Holden is here to stay.”

No you don’t and no you’re not.

The cultural con will soon be gone.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by b0son

Holden themselves estimated a $600mil shutdown cost, most of which was employee entitlements, for just under 2000 workers.

This is not a tragedy for employees if this is true. This is an unparalleled godsend! Give me a piece of this and I'll happily walk away from my job...

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by redloamrules

Agreed & the gate has been open for decades. The problem with our leaders today is that they do not have big enough testicles or front bums to stand up and do anything about it.

the funny thing is that until they actually shut the doors for good then the situation is always reversible
It's never over til it's over
A serious lack of balls in our government is the main reason nothing will happen tho

[JG34JA]

"The game plan from GM was simple. It would shut down Chevrolet in Europe, and hope to pick up that market share with Opel and Vauxhall.

To put the size and scale of that writeoff in perspective, GM has signed a $US559 million, seven-year deal to put the Chevrolet name on Manchester United's shirt. The first year of that deal - the biggest endorsement in European football - is next season, by which time GM won't actually be selling Chevrolet cars in Europe."



Gotta say that's the LOL of the day. These people are professionals and are highly paid for their decisions...

[Road_Warrior]

Far out that article above is pretty harsh. I must say I agree with the whole "cultural con". Perhaps its a good thing that Ford never really tried to shove its "Australian-ness" down peoples throats at every opportunity like Holden did.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by Rodge

^^Plenty of panelbeaters sometimes struggle to find highly skilled spray painters...just a thought. Seeing as your mate is single and will get a substaintial redundency payout he should be well positioned to adapt to changing circumstances, something many people, (both employees and self employed), do on a far more regular basis with far less help.

Was going to say this. If he learns to drive employment prospects would improve also.

[BENT_8]

hey guys im not trying to portray a sense of hopelessness about him as it isn't the case. As I told him, the sun will still rise the day after it all ends.
It is the thought of such a life change that is daunting, and not just from his personal point of view, but amongst his work mates and the whole community.

It is on every ones lips and in every piece of media, there is no shelter from the cold hard facts that in 3 or 4 years he will no longer have job security as he has known it for 26 of 50 years of life.

Someone mentioned change, and then mentioned dealing with it 4 times.
I have no doubt that it is possible and likely, but you cant compare 4 short stints against 26 years of service for an iconic company.
When you have worked for 1 employer for 26 years, the statistics depicting job turnover trends in todays climate are less than encouraging.

Anyway, life goes on.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by zoomie

The biggest reality check was when i got my first pay packet... I'd dropped nearly 55% of the wage compared to what i was getting in the car industry

Is that due to the number of hours you worked, or just better pay rate?

[johnydep]

Job security? My grandfather worked for one company all his life, got a gold watch and a party at his retirement. But in those days most people stayed with one company for life.

Now there is no job security - for employee and employer. People move on, jobs change, staff get a better offer, businesses close down.

How many small businesses owners are guaranteed that they'll have a job for life?

Technology is a blessing and a curse.

Keep your skills up to date, and keep training.

The only job security these days is in a government job, well in SA anyway.

[fgpsi]

Chinese Buick Commodore anyone ?

2017 Holden Commodore will be made in China

The Holden Commodore of the future will be as Australian as the shirts on our backs: it will likely be made in China.

To gain approval to develop a new Commodore, General Motors did a top-secret deal with Holden to pair the next generation sedan with a Buick that was originally exclusive to the Chinese market. Holden won the contract to design the car, which was then due to be built in Australia and China. But now that Holden has decided to shut its Elizabeth car assembly line in 2017, China is poised to become the sole producer of the vehicle.

Documents obtained by News Corp Australia confirm every Holden fan’s worst nightmare: the next generation Commodore will be a front-wheel-drive car powered by a four-cylinder engine. Every top-selling Holden since the birth of the company in 1948 has been a six-cylinder, rear-wheel-drive sedan. The last time Holden sold a four-cylinder Commodore in the early 1980s, sales tanked. The four-cylinder Ford Falcon released last year has also failed to boost sales, accounting for less than 10 per cent of deliveries.

Holden insiders are now fighting to make a V6 available as an option on the future Commodore. When asked why Holden would continue with the Commodore badge given that the 2017 version bears no resemblance to the models before it, a Holden insider said: “It’s easier to explain to buyers that something has changed about a car they know, than to say ‘Here’s the new Holden XYZ’.”

The 2017 Commodore will lose its practical box-shaped body and instead take on sleek styling cues from Europe. Sales of European sedans have been revived overseas since they were restyled to look like four-door coupes.

A Holden insider says the new Commodore will be almost 5 metres long and almost as wide as the current car, but it will look smaller because of the low roofline. “It’s about making sedans look cool again,” said one Holden insider. “Audi’s done it, Mercedes has done, now we’re going to do it. It’s the only way to bring customers back to sedans.” Sales of traditional sedans have been in free-fall for 10 years as Australians embrace SUVs in record numbers. The shift away from traditional cars is so strong that there will be no wagon version of the new Commodore for the first time ever.

http://m.carsguide.com.au/news-and-r...20131213_79790

[zoomie]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Is that due to the number of hours you worked, or just better pay rate?

I use to work a standard 38 hour week at Mitsubishi and at the CNC machining place we worked a 40 hour week. The hourly rate at the time was award wage for cnc machining which was way less than the car industry was paying

[Crazy Dazz]

Whilst the closure of Ford & Holden is a tragedy for Australian Motoring Enthusiasts, in ISOLATION its not earth-shattering. There ARE (still) other jobs.

Problem is these are hardly the first factories to close their doors, and if the governments keep this up, they won’t be the last.

If you have a child looking for a trade, get them to become a sparky. Even prefabbed houses from China will need to be re-wired by Australian sparkies (like everything else they send us.)
Or maybe a plumber, it’s pretty hard to unblock a dunny remotely.

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

the funny thing is that until they actually shut the doors for good then the situation is always reversible
It's never over til it's over
A serious lack of balls in our government is the main reason nothing will happen tho

IT AINT OVER TILL ITS OVER

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

I hop 9sec enjoys his *KIA

Probably does, is that a botherance to you?

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

This post is not worth reading .......

It won car of the year in 2013 but of course you know better than whoever decided that obviously