Tax the rich?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by cheap

....... Because of what is reported in the media, it may come as a surprise, but the media have a way with manipulating impressionable minds.

?

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ............... !

[BHDOGS]

Ok so i hope she trips over a rock preferable an ore rock apon hitting the ground her impact creates a shockwave that causes a sinkhole to begin she then slowly sinks in to it however just below is a cave with a thin roof she busts through the cave into a very hot and particle filled enviroment. ok ill let it go auslandau

[cheap]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I base what i think of her of media reports i havent been invited to any millionaire partys latley so can only really judge her on whats reported if you dont like the reports maybe you should call up the papers and complain till then ill believe everything they say about her till she invites me to one of her partys i guess. As for the taxes she pays im assuming you dont know either unless you asked her when you met her which is possible. But ill assume you didnt so she could be a tax cheating scrag to i guess we will both just have to assume our different positions about her based on nothing but hear say and conjecture seeing as were both not her best friends. Any other queries?

It may come as a surprise, and by your response it will be.

She is the patron of the Small Business Association of Australia. I didn't need to go to any s**** millionaire party to met her (I have also been to her house and that's another story), she was at last years convention.

You do support small business don't you - or is that another tax cheating system which needs to be driven off the face of the earth with higher taxes?

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ............... !

Who would have guessed?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by cheap

- or is that another tax cheating system which needs to be driven off the face of the earth with higher taxes?

Payroll Tax!

Now there is the biggest rort (apart from stamp duty) perpetrated onto small business.

A tax that employers pay if they pay more than $300,000 (IIRC) per year in wages. A tax for employing people so they can pay tax?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Awesome, please post details of the positions at expensive private schools for teaching English to refugees. Particularly refugee children that have never attended a formal school before, and need to be ready to enter main stream schooling in 6-12 months.

Take your pick...social worker/philanthropist or capitalist.

You choose to be poor...that's fine.

You can lead a horse to water...

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Payroll Tax!

Now there is the biggest rort (apart from stamp duty) perpetrated onto small business.

A tax that employers pay if they pay more than $300,000 (IIRC) per year in wages. A tax for employing people so they can pay tax?

No arguments from me on that one. What an incentive to stay small !

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by zilo

Take your pick...social worker/philanthropist or capitalist.

You choose to be poor...that's fine.

You can lead a horse to water...

Just because that's the way it is doesn't make it right....

[BHDOGS]

What does small business have to do with my thoughts on a billionaire fatty? It doesnt suprise me you are connected to small buisness in someway seeing as how liberal loving you are you fit right in if that surprises you. Lets use your logic for a second and push it a little further how do i judge my thoughts on politicians? by what i read in the media or how many times ive met them in person? what about another country say north korea? how do i judge it by how nice kim jong is at the annual dictator bbq or by the media do i have to have actually met every person and been to every location in the world to hate something or is that only when its somebody you personally like considering your disregard and hatred for most things in this thread id say you haven't met every dole bludging bong smoker they could be a really nice person. Or the abc there a bunch of vipers how would you know you havent met them only what you read in the media? Considering your the king of sweeping generalizations with no proof to back up most of your claims im gonna go ahead and still stick to i dont like her. As for your media jibe about it manipulating my impressionable mind atleast i listen to both sides of the media instead of picking only the conservative dribble i happen to like the abc i dont agree with everything they say but sometimes there spot on just like fairfax. So stop being a big hypocrite about this one issue because the fatty invited you over to her house.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cheap

So what are you basing your "hatred" of her on?

Is it because she employes lots of people, some of which are low paid foreigners?
Is it because she turned a small fortune into a big fortune?
Is it because of the family feud?
Is it because she doesn't pay enough tax (but then again you don't know how much she pays do you)?
Did she run over your dog?

What specifically?

If you're basing your hatred because of what is reported in the media, it may come as a surprise, but the media have a way with manipulating impressionable minds.

And yes I have met her, she seems alright and considering who she is and what she has, is reasonable, intelligent and quite down to earth. I'm sure she wants to look after her turf, but don't we all?

She's a greedy billionaire who inherrited her wealth from her old man when he died, then keeps it away from all her kids and has a problem with Australian wages, especially the people working in her mines.

I find it hypocritical she complains about people on wellfare when she got hers from inherritance, then steals it from her kids.

I stand by what I said before.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

What does small business have to do with my thoughts on a billionaire fatty? It doesnt suprise me you are connected to small buisness in someway seeing as how liberal loving you are you fit right in if that surprises you. Lets use your logic for a second and push it a little further how do i judge my thoughts on politicians? by what i read in the media or how many times ive met them in person? what about another country say north korea? how do i judge it by how nice kim jong is at the annual dictator bbq or by the media do i have to have actually met every person and been to every location in the world to hate something or is that only when its somebody you personally like considering your disregard and hatred for most things in this thread id say you haven't met every dole bludging bong smoker they could be a really nice person. Or the abc there a bunch of vipers how would you know you havent met them only what you read in the media? Considering your the king of sweeping generalizations with no proof to back up most of your claims im gonna go ahead and still stick to i dont like her. As for your media jibe about it manipulating my impressionable mind atleast i listen to both sides of the media instead of picking only the conservative dribble i happen to like the abc i dont agree with everything they say but sometimes there spot on just like fairfax. So stop being a big hypocrite about this one issue because the fatty invited you over to her house.

Have you ever owned or operated a business?

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by cheap

Have you ever owned or operated a business?

Cheap dude i apologies for my destroyingly accurate post but your tricks of trying to warp from one point to the next to catch someone off guard doesnt work with me. I got 99 problems but a fat gina aint one.

[cheap]

So I gather you've not run or operated a business.

By the way I rose through the ranks so to speak, doing crappy shift work for 7 years. I now run a small business, doing 60-80 hours a week, unfortunately no one gifted me a thing. However I've heard your type a hundred times over, resent and blaming people for trying improve their lives and that of their family.

Finally so you can keep your insults to yourself, we lost family and friends fighting Hitler - pull your head in!

[BHDOGS]

As for my good self since you seem so interested i started caring for my disabled dad when i was highschool dropped out to care for him full time living on the carer pension eating dirt then started doing cleaning work part time cleaning toilets 3 hours a day at a call center for a few years to supplement my income then when i was free from the pension started working fulltime in security for 7 years making a difference to peoples lives now i work in warehousing doing 80 hours a fortnight. So enlighten me to what type of person i am again because im unsure what type of people you are referring to?

It cant be gina because she inherited her wealth and didnt work hard to get it. But she sure is working hard to keep it from her family? so kinda the opposite of your good self then? LMAO

[cheap]

I'll put this to you as clearly as possible, I'm not interested one iota in you or your predicament, your insult went too far.

[BHDOGS]

Are you talking to me or big damo i assume him since hes the one that mentioned hitler?

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by cheap

I'll put this to you as clearly as possible, I'm not interested one iota in you or your predicament, your insult went too far.

Says the person throwing out broad insults against welfare recipients, uni students etc
Shoe. Other foot.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Just on the "stealing" neighbour thing...
How do YOU KNOW she doesn't work at home?
How do YOU KNOW their company structure??
How do YOU BLOODY KNOW what tax they do or DON'T pay??
You DON'T...
So STFU and don't comment on things you have NO idea of!

Nope not really, they're mates with my parents and brag to them about it all the time. They're not exactly shy about it. We've know them for 17yrs.

So stfu and don't comment on things you have NO idea of!!

How can you make such claims that they aren't tax cheats?? I know them personally you don't. Unbelievable.

Not everything is a Disney movie unfortunately, some people out there actually do appoint their stay at home housewives as their company director to steal our tax dollars to chaffeur themselves to Dan Murphys in Holden Granges. I'm sorry I wish I could tell you it wasn't like that but it actually is. Some people out there also buy investment properties and tell the ATO it's a purchased "PPOR" but funnily enough exactly 12 months later it becomes tenated to rort tens of thousands in CGT tax from us. And the fbt has been done over and over on this forum already. Face it some people out there are dishonest, greedy and selfish all it requires is 1% of us really with their multi-millions to affect 99% of usand many of us are in the shitter end of that 99%. The perfect system is only an idea some people cheat tax and overall it costs the country 120 billion per year and we do nothing but turn a blind eye. And one of them's my neighbour. They hold the mere view that tax/contribution is theft and therefore believe it's ok not to pay it. Bunch of Packers really. So that doesn't bother you at all? Ok then.

We don't live a perfect world where people pay their 120 billion p.a. and are honest with their CGT. I'm sorry to be right about this but I can't control people.

[Franco Cozzo]

^ Go and get photos of them, especially driving to the shops to get grog, in a public place so you can take photos of them.

Then post them up here for name and shame IMO

[ILLaViTaR]

Unfortunately everyone does it and it's not worth causing them and their family the grief really but we've bloody well thought about it!! And we bloody well should really, in reality they would've not taken anymore than $300 000 in dishonesty (that they've told us about.. so yes it could be more) but they're small fish.. ruining them wouldn't do anything but make an example of tax cheats but yes I know!!! So bloody tempting that bloody nature strip brought us close that really did agitate the entire street. Everyone still parks in front of it regardless of their stupid sign, it's not private it's council property as is the road adjacent to it. We probably would've reported them just to stop the nature strip but by time they let on to us about it their dodgy zoning plans were already in place... bastards.

120 000 000 000/
300 000 and up to 1.200 000

= 50 000 to 400 000 tax cheats nationwide. (Provided they each have endless full tax dollars to claim so yes... of course real numbers are a lot different and this is basically pseudomath). The only way to give a real average of tax dollars stolen per individual would be to source the country's statistics, I said 300 000-1.2 million, a good rough average for the 97% of society but some people will also be cheating $40 a year off the books not declaring their casino win, a few possibly even 40 million, some even 400 million.. so it could be anything like 20 000-800 000 tax cheats possibly more or less idfk. outliers everywhere.

So there's an even bigger problem than public servants. Kerry Packers legacy lives on in full force.

The only way to make a noticeable difference to the economy is to regulate all of the tax cheats, which is exactly what Rudd tried to do with the FBT, but wasted the opportunity and managed it awfully and the concept went out the window (novated leases and not actually solving the rorts like it was intended to). The concept was great but it was implemented horribly and with no regard to the feasibility for some groups. Now the damage of rudds fbt attack will probably leave the fbt unregulated for another 20yrs sigh.

[ILLaViTaR]

I reckon the perfect way to fix the economy is to force the rich (I am talking the 50 million+) to spend. That's the problem right there that wealth needs to currently be in the economy not sequestered from it. Force them to build our railroads/transport/infrastructure, it's good for their interests anyway they would love to own the world and conquer it like gods.

If Gina and Palmer were forced to invest then we'd for example have an NBN. And instead of optus, internode and dodo it'd be Reinhart, Palmer, Adani and Murdoch... and with their own little netflix monopoly. And as much as I wouldn't like that at all, it's a solution to the current problem. A better solution is to simply not allow individuals to have that much power/influence and wealth LOL.

[xxx000]

ALMOST 42 per cent of students at one private school received special allowances in this year's Higher School Certificate exams - almost eight times higher than the average proportion at public schools.

Twenty-five private schools - including Reddam House, Scots College, Masada College, Frensham, Cranbrook and SCEGGS - received special consideration for their HSC students at more than twice the rate of public schools.

Independent schools continued to received the disproportionately higher rates of special provisions compared with public school students despite the State Government's review of the system last year.

The provisions granted include Braille papers, large print papers, use of a reader and/or writer, and extra time or rest breaks for conditions including emotional and physical disabilities.



At Glenaeon Rudolf Steiner School, Middle Cove, 41.7 per cent of students claimed special provisions this year compared to 18.2 per cent last year. The school climbed 109 places to 269th position in the Herald's list of top HSC performers this year.

Reddam House in Bondi, which was ranked seventh, compared with 54th last year, claimed special provisions for 14.3 per cent of its HSC students this year, compared with 11.5 per cent last year.

A NSW Greens analysis of government figures shows that the NSW Board of Studies granted special provisions for this year's HSC examinations to 9.5 per cent of students at independent schools, 7.6 per cent of students at Catholic Schools and 5.3 per cent of students at public schools.

The proportion of students with a disability at government schools is 4.8 per cent, almost double the 2.6 per cent at private schools, according to the latest available figures from the Bureau of Statistics.

The NSW Greens MP John Kaye said while special examination provisions were a vital part of providing ''a fair go for many students sitting the HSC, wealthy private schools are getting much more than their fair share'' despite the State Government's claims to have investigated the matter last year.

''The integrity of the state's most important public exam is at stake,'' Dr Kaye said. ''Students giving it their best shot have a right to know that they competed on a level playing field.''

The chairman of Glenaeon Rudolf Steiner School's management group, Andrew Hill, said students at the school were not gaining an unfair advantage. He said a large proportion of students who claimed special provisions this year had anxiety problems and a small proportion had special needs. Students who suffered from anxiety were given additional exam time to rest.

The executive director from the Association of Independent Schools NSW, Geoff Newcombe, said the system did not aim to provide advantage. ''It is aimed at correcting disadvantage.''

Schools granted a high proportion of special provisions last year, as highlighted by the Herald, have significantly reduced their requests this year.

At MLC School in Burwood, the proportion of students granted special provisions this year was 6.9 per cent compared to 17.3 per cent last year, while at The King’s School in Parramatta, the rate decreased from 18.2 per cent last year to 8.3 per cent.

The proportion of Meriden School students who received special provisions was 17.6 per cent last year and 8 per cent this year.

At the Presbyterian Ladies College in Croydon, the proportion has dropped from 17.4 per cent last year to 8.3 per cent this year and at Oxley college in Bowral from 29.5 per cent to 21.1 per cent.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/hsc-h...#ixzz31QaNWRym

Interesting how HSC results could possibly be skewed by the above.

And a friend of ours was doing some work at a local girls private school recently. It's the one with the grand piano in the foyer, individual air cond sound proof music rooms, lift, under cover staff car park, a 25M heated indoor pool etc etc.
Anyway while there she witnessed a teacher berating the girls in her class for their behaviour. She was telling them....'you're acting like public school girls' to which they replied....'oh please miss don't say that'

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I reckon the perfect way to fix the economy is to force the rich (I am talking the 50 million+) to spend. That's the problem right there that wealth needs to currently be in the economy not sequestered from it. Force them to build our railroads/transport/infrastructure, it's good for their interests anyway they would love to own the world and conquer it like gods.

If Gina and Palmer were forced to invest then we'd for example have an NBN. And instead of optus, internode and dodo it'd be Reinhart, Palmer, Adani and Murdoch... and with their own little netflix monopoly. And as much as I wouldn't like that at all, it's a solution to the current problem. A better solution is to simply not allow individuals to have that much power/influence and wealth LOL.

I understand where you're coming from

I'm also yet to understand why already absurdly wealthy individuals want even more money.
On the surface yes Packer employs a lot of people, however casinos are a very lucrative business and their aim is to fleece you of as much money as possible via gambling. Gambling can be addictive, highly addictive, destroys families and on a personal level I'm not at all comfortable with someone peddling something that causes so much misery to so many.
We've all seen and read the many stories of individuals who embezzled money, often millions, from their workplaces, many of them to fund gambling.

It'd just be great to instead see each of these Australian billionaires do good for others and our country by genuinely investing their money back into people and improving places in a long term visionary way.
Who knows if they did perhaps they'd even be happier people?

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by cheap

Have you ever owned or operated a business?

While that question wasn't directed to me in that quote, it was directed to someone that has a similar converse attitude to Mr Cheap, so I thought I would answer it anyway.

I do yes. I really didn't want to go down this whole I have had it harder than you path but so here we are. And by the way I feel rather blessed, lucky, and live on an amazing property and want for very little.

From the age of 7 upwards I was up at 5am every morning and cleaning a pub well before 6, I would cycle straight to school from the pub. Apart from school holidays of course where I would invariably be going to work with my bricklayer dad to help him and as I got older do a full brickys labouring job on school holidays for dad, by the way this was always on house sites not corporates and dad was rabidly anti-union and sub-contractor. After school every day I did a paper round in my earlier years, but by 14 I worked at a service station until close after school each day. No wonder I ran away and joined the ADF at 16 where I spent ten years.

On exit I started a small business on a wing and a prayer with very little support and scraped by for many years but do pretty well these days and play plenty of tax. Have never been on any form of welfare, got any allowance, first home buyers or anything like that whatsoever.

So see, there are people, that actually do run businesses, have not grown up going to private schools or been given any real advantages other than a strong work ethic embedded from an early age and still believe in ensuring that Australia is a fair egalitarian society that takes care of people that are unfortunate. Sure, there are those that rort it, in large schemes that will always happen, but those welfare schemes still need to be there for the genuinely unfortunate that require a leg up and support.

I believe that we are still very much the lucky country and can't believe how most people doing well in this country largely are such a pack of whinging tossers that can't see anything outside of their own narrow little world. Just such insular sad little individuals really.

If you want real comedy spend some time around 'SOME' mine workers where they all ***** about how hard done by they are, living in fairly good quarters, working two or three weeks on and a week off, or some even now doing two weeks on and two weeks off, but man still they are so hard done by, they even manage to convince themselves of this so much that they actually believe it.... On the warships we averaged 15-18 hours a day, slept in a mess with 48 people stacked three high so tight you nearly had to dislocate your shoulder to roll over, had two showers and two toilets between the 48 of us, worked seven days a week always when at sea. Were away every year for a 2-3 month deployment and 4-5 month deployment.... But gee having to fly up north for a couple of weeks before a couple of weeks off, that is really tough going, they might even have to share a toilet sometimes!!! And the fact that they actually have to pay tax on their six figure incomes!!!! Well that is just going way too far and is completely unfair!!!!! Like I say.... comedy :-)

[xxx000]

I blame the redneck radio shockjocks in part for the whinging that goes on these days.
These 'broadcasters' go out of their way to convince people things are bad and that they have every right to be angry because the 'bad times' are due to person or party x on the left side of politics.
It's quite a skill reducing complex discussions about important topics down to simplistic hard nosed one liners but they have it down pat and they steer how their audience thinks and reacts. Just look at the Cronulla riots as an example of their power.
Funny thing is AJ tried his hand at politics years ago and failed embarrassingly.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Nope not really, they're mates with my parents and brag to them about it all the time. They're not exactly shy about it. We've know them for 17yrs.

So stfu and don't comment on things you have NO idea of!!

How can you make such claims that they aren't tax cheats?? I know them personally you don't. Unbelievable.

Not everything is a Disney movie unfortunately, some people out there actually do appoint their stay at home housewives as their company director to steal our tax dollars to chaffeur themselves to Dan Murphys in Holden Granges. I'm sorry I wish I could tell you it wasn't like that but it actually is. Some people out there also buy investment properties and tell the ATO it's a purchased "PPOR" but funnily enough exactly 12 months later it becomes tenated to rort tens of thousands in CGT tax from us. And the fbt has been done over and over on this forum already. Face it some people out there are dishonest, greedy and selfish all it requires is 1% of us really with their multi-millions to affect 99% of usand many of us are in the shitter end of that 99%. The perfect system is only an idea some people cheat tax and overall it costs the country 120 billion per year and we do nothing but turn a blind eye. And one of them's my neighbour. They hold the mere view that tax/contribution is theft and therefore believe it's ok not to pay it. Bunch of Packers really. So that doesn't bother you at all? Ok then.

We don't live a perfect world where people pay their 120 billion p.a. and are honest with their CGT. I'm sorry to be right about this but I can't control people.

There are people taking advantage of the system on both sides. From Union bosses charging expenses, to billionaire mining magnates minimising tax, to companies using offshore entities to do the same, all the way back to workcover cheats in your street.

The problem is we make it so hard to bring them to account. Look how long it is taking to find out if Craig Thompson will actually serve time - it is still going on appeal - back to you can video a workcover cheat carrying a pallet of 40kg bags so he can pave his backard while off work, but he still apparently is unfit for work which may involve occasionally carrying 16kg.

We have so much protection for the guilty, but little for the honest hard working, both high and low earning. I just wish there was respect for both, and less of the "I am owed" mentality.

I would never, ever wish for a genuinely disadvantaged individual not to be protected and given a helping hand by society for as long as it takes. But anyone taking advantage of this deserves to be dealt with harshly and most importantly swiftly.

[mcnews]

The I am owed mentality started with the middle class welfare vote buying of Howard and has only got worse since. That said, those that need a leg up must be provided with it. But if you are earning more than 50k a year then you should get no sort of government assistance outside of the normal medicare, education provided etc. that always was there.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I reckon the perfect way to fix the economy is to force the rich (I am talking the 50 million+) to spend. That's the problem right there that wealth needs to currently be in the economy not sequestered from it. Force them to build our railroads/transport/infrastructure, it's good for their interests anyway they would love to own the world and conquer it like gods.

If Gina and Palmer were forced to invest then we'd for example have an NBN. And instead of optus, internode and dodo it'd be Reinhart, Palmer, Adani and Murdoch... and with their own little netflix monopoly. And as much as I wouldn't like that at all, it's a solution to the current problem. A better solution is to simply not allow individuals to have that much power/influence and wealth LOL.

I agree, but I'll add to it that our government should be the one with the money to make the investments that return them more money.

If those 'rich' people invested in those things, they would simply be creating more wealth for themselves.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I would never, ever wish for a genuinely disadvantaged individual not to be protected and given a helping hand by society for as long as it takes. But anyone taking advantage of this deserves to be dealt with harshly and most importantly swiftly.

Similar vain to this, anyone in public office found to be acting fraudulent, or stealing funds, etc. should be dealt the harshest penalties available for abusing position and stealing my/your money.

If some bloke broke in to my house and raided my top draw to pay for hookers, it would be plain and simple 'theft', but when it's a political figure and it's done through deceit, it's all of a sudden something else.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by mcnews

The I am owed mentality started with the middle class welfare vote buying of Howard and has only got worse since. That said, those that need a leg up must be provided with it. But if you are earning more than 50k a year then you should get no sort of government assistance outside of the normal medicare, education provided etc. that always was there.

Quoting for truth.
When the baby bonus was scrapped and the family tax benefit tweaked, an acquaintance of mine went on a tirade because "how dare the government punish me for wanting children". Uh. No sweetie. They're no longer rewarding you directly for having children. Sell the second tv and you'll be fine...