Depression, Anxiety

[mex351]

Originally Posted by olfella

If ever anyone needs an example of a bloke with a chip on his shoulder, this is right up there.

Nope someone who see's the world differently to you is all,but you struggle to accept it.

[mex351]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

By and large this thread has been an area of support for those who have or aware of issues created by mental illness.

I accept that contrary views may be held, that some believe it is all a cover up for a vaiety of other things.

On the other side, I have had some private exchanges with people who have posted on this thread and they have found it an invaluable source of support through tough times.

I'd rather see the thread continue in a positive vein, there is no need to make your point and then make it again and agsin and again and again........

Have your say and move on.

Make sure all read the last line again...

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by mex351

Oh a threat cos I don't agree.The irony of it...

Jumping in and calling most posters here fakers and to HTFU is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

However, one post to let us know your feelings about the topic would have been quite sufficient, instead of insisting in pushing your agenda down everyone's throats.

We now all know how you feel about the subject, so leave it at that and move on please.

[mex351]

Actaully I didn't call people on here fakers you assumed that bud.

Thats twice you asked nicely

[Kingsley]

Originally Posted by 223thecure

I never cease to be amazed at just how prevalent this kind of human behaviour is in our decadent Western societies, dealing with our 'First World problems'.

I have just spent the last 18 months living in the 'Third World' in and around people dealing with poverty on a scale that most Westerners just could NEVER become accustomed to. What has amazed me is the resilience of these people who have NOTHING ... next to NO money, NO proper accommodation & for the most part ... are ALWAYS hungry ... BUT you never hear them complaining ! They just 'suck it up' & get on because there is NO assistance from Government. There is NO Centrelink to hand out free money, there is NO Medicare to provide free medical treatment, there is NO 'subsidised' rentals for low income earners ... there is just a daily struggle to stay ALIVE !!!

I have rationalised that these people living in the most attrocious conditions where there is no care from the government whether you live or die ... these people just simply do NOT have the 'Luxury' of being 'Depressed' ... and believe me, they have GOOD reasons to be anxious & depressed ! Instead what I see in them is they just accept .. and make the best of what they have.

Would love to take my kids there and show them how nice their life is ... instead of whining about not getting a new $100 Xbox game, they could see people including their kids living on the side of a 6x lane highway in a packing crate built humpy with a leaky tarp for a roof. NO running water, NO bathroom, NO toilet, NO electricity ... absolute, abject POVERTY !!!

Depression seems to be a luxury that us decadent Westerners are afforded ... something that people who really do it tough in life, don't have the luxury of 'suffering' from !

For me, the last 18 months has helped me see the world in perspective and understand what a PARADISE we live in, here in the luckiest country in the world !

Just my 5c worth !

Diagnosed depression has nothing to do with the lack of material possessions. Plenty of people in remote regional areas of this country are also living in third world standards.

We are lucky enough to live in a decadent western society that's capable of affording the help people need. It's not as simple as buying material items as a cure. You too are confusing diagnosed depression with the 'I'm sad because mummy didn't buy me an XBox' set.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by mex351

Funny how no one has taken the time to read this post.

Oh I read it, and can vouch for the author's description of third world life 100%. Where we differ though is that I reckon (and I'm not the only one) that the so-called decadent Western lifestyle is the cause of the depression endemic being experienced. There will always be a small group of whingers that will never be happy with anything and will be forever complaining about something or other. However, you seem to tar far too many people with the same brush when all they need is some help.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by mex351

Funny how no one has taken the time to read this post.

I read it and it is all subjective. He says that because he comes from a place like we have. To those people, it may be paradise. Not saying it cannot be improved, but to whose standards? theirs or ours? Whole new argument.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by 223thecure

I never cease to be amazed at just how prevalent this kind of human behaviour is in our decadent Western societies, dealing with our 'First World problems'.

I have just spent the last 18 months living in the 'Third World' in and around people dealing with poverty on a scale that most Westerners just could NEVER become accustomed to. What has amazed me is the resilience of these people who have NOTHING ... next to NO money, NO proper accommodation & for the most part ... are ALWAYS hungry ... BUT you never hear them complaining ! They just 'suck it up' & get on because there is NO assistance from Government. There is NO Centrelink to hand out free money, there is NO Medicare to provide free medical treatment, there is NO 'subsidised' rentals for low income earners ... there is just a daily struggle to stay ALIVE !!!

.....................
Depression seems to be a luxury that us decadent Westerners are afforded ... something that people who really do it tough in life, don't have the luxury of 'suffering' from !

You make some observations that have a certain logic.

But, people are inherently no different. Fact is in Australia, with the secure life we generally have, many people are socially dissociated, and many are pressured by technology, work and lifestyles.

Those people living in 3rd world countries, transplant them into a lifestyle in Australia subject to depression stressors and likely they will fall to the black dog.

Likewise, take a person who is depressed in Australia, say due to pressures of running a regional farm with limited social contact and economic pressures, and parachute that person into a 3rd world village where it is a struggle to survive, that person would have a different mental focus and mental health.

People are not different, thing is like cancer, depression in Australia has multiple and sometimes multi factorial causes, and things like social isolation, economic pressures, disempowerment in workplace, shell shock work pressures, technology in the form of e-mails sms, 24 hour phone calls sure as heck do not help.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by mex351

And your wrong...just saying. Thats whats wrong with the whole deal,when did men stop been men cos now it's every one who has a bad day has had depression for life.

Your all breeding softness.Not that I car about what any of you think of me or my words but you are all been blinded like the churches blind people into thinking there is a god.

Sick people are among us and they do need help but there not getting it most times as fakers are stealing there chances by been sooky little kids.

I can agree with some of your sentiments but the bolded part is what gets me annoyed. Exactly how is a man supposed to act?? Not every man follows footy, wears thongs, smokes, drinks and drives a ute like the stereotypical aussie male.

That's the problem with society, we are forced to be pigeon holed and categorised and it should be everyone's business to know. Boys should like blue and girls pink. Everyone should be married or have a partner. Religion. Sexuality.............................

I thinks many problems of the world would be solved if people were left to be themselves, free from judgement and stereotypical categories.

[GasoLane]

Can we all get back on topic now.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Can we all get back on topic now.

sorry off topic and bad taste given thread.

[Beastie]

Guys, Can I ask that if you want to post up your thoughts in this thread, that you please be mindful of the many members who use this thread as a support mechanism.

They may not always reply to a post, but I know that many of our AFF family do read these posts and it can effect them in different ways that potentially some of us don't understand.

Everyone has their right to have a say, and I respect that, but imho, this is one thread that should not be an argumentative thread.

[mex351]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I can agree with some of your sentiments but the bolded part is what gets me annoyed. Exactly how is a man supposed to act?? Not every man follows footy, wears thongs, smokes, drinks and drives a ute like the stereotypical aussie male.

That's the problem with society, we are forced to be pigeon holed and categorised and it should be everyone's business to know. Boys should like blue and girls pink. Everyone should be married or have a partner. Religion. Sexuality.............................

I thinks many problems of the world would be solved if people were left to be themselves, free from judgement and stereotypical categories.

I'd love to reply but apparently if I do Im been argumentative? Go figure ?

I accept and understand your feelings but if I'm to honest I will offend those less than realistic then gain more warning points based on the fact I don't believe most men are been honest,just sooky?

Not really a open forum when I get warnings but others like can threaten me and not receive sanction.Its a forum after all but watching people suffer thru depression is serious stuff and not to be taken lightly but most think to argue instead of read the true msg I said. I'm not gunna hide from my feelings or thoughts from anyone. Nor did my mate tonight who battles depression daily and understands and supports my point of view after spending 6 hrs with him this evening. My feeling on how a man should act is be what ever his family or surroundings need him to be and how he chose to place him self. Meaning if he choose to be with a girl and gets a kid as a result he should be the or part provider for that unit if he chooses to move on or not but he has his purpose to up hold. Nothing more or less based on his choices.Choices...not adding or leaving any out his or partners choices. None of this I slept with 3 girls got em all preggers cos I was depressed even though they were mates wives. My whole point they were not depressed just depressed the got caught out for bad choices.

FYI we celebrated a mates pregnancy to this mrs tonight.Big step and life style change for a man but apparently after my 2 kids I don't know any thing about that or stress or been a adult or the struggle that is depression after helping family and friends thru it like Will. Maybe I should of stayed home instead of supported there great news ?

Just a chip on the shoulder carrier instead of a friend...but Will doesn't think so either doe's Mel my SIL but hey some on the internet know not me who has to deal with it everyday via helping them along.Neither never complain or judge me but I must be wrong even though both told me otherwise today without pointing it out? Who would of thought but again how would I know right ???

I'll say it again...men need to be proud men again not be allowed to have angles to push into soft whimpy sooks with blame in there eyes instead of pride and commitment based on there choices and no fakes.My whole point all along,nothing more or less and my view will not change cos some say I should.If I make a mistake I'll wear it if not I stand up for what I believe in cos I'm honest.

Thats it and all it will be and there will be no replies or judging just my view on it with no hang up's from me.

Have a nice day all or do what ever you want cos I just don't care

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by mex351

I'd love to reply but apparently if I do Im been argumentative? Go figure ?

I accept and understand your feelings but if I'm to honest I will offend those less than realistic then gain more warning points based on the fact I don't believe most men are been honest,just sooky?

Not really a open forum when I get warnings but others like can threaten me and not receive sanction.Its a forum after all but watching people suffer thru depression is serious stuff and not to be taken lightly but most think to argue instead of read the true msg I said. I'm not gunna hide from my feelings or thoughts from anyone. Nor did my mate tonight who battles depression daily and understands and supports my point of view after spending 6 hrs with him this evening. My feeling on how a man should act is be what ever his family or surroundings need him to be and how he chose to place him self. Meaning if he choose to be with a girl and gets a kid as a result he should be the or part provider for that unit if he chooses to move on or not but he has his purpose to up hold. Nothing more or less based on his choices.Choices...not adding or leaving any out his or partners choices. None of this I slept with 3 girls got em all preggers cos I was depressed even though they were mates wives. My whole point they were not depressed just depressed the got caught out for bad choices.

FYI we celebrated a mates pregnancy to this mrs tonight.Big step and life style change for a man but apparently after my 2 kids I don't know any thing about that or stress or been a adult or the struggle that is depression after helping family and friends thru it like Will. Maybe I should of stayed home instead of supported there great news ?

Just a chip on the shoulder carrier instead of a friend...but Will doesn't think so either doe's Mel my SIL but hey some on the internet know not me who has to deal with it everyday via helping them along.Neither never complain or judge me but I must be wrong even though both told me otherwise today without pointing it out? Who would of thought but again how would I know right ???

I'll say it again...men need to be proud men again not be allowed to have angles to push into soft whimpy sooks with blame in there eyes instead of pride and commitment based on there choices and no fakes.My whole point all along,nothing more or less and my view will not change cos some say I should.If I make a mistake I'll wear it if not I stand up for what I believe in cos I'm honest.

Thats it and all it will be and there will be no replies or judging just my view on it with no hang up's from me.

Have a nice day all or do what ever you want cos I just don't care

Hey Mex - PM sent

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by mex351

Most "depressed men" are not depressed, just too scared to be responsible for there decisions. [...]

If only that was truly the case! Unfortunately, the clinical evidence is totally at odds with this out-of-date mindset. Male depressive illnesses have been acknowledged as existing in even the most responsible and outwardly confident men the world over. Depression is defined as a "hidden" disability, which is why—sadly—far too many people dismiss it as nothing more than a cop-out or any easy escape from the real world, along with an "excuse" to under-perform or deny any responsibility for their actions.

From the Australian Beyondblue web site...

Depression in men.

In general, men tend to put off getting any kind of help because they think they're supposed to be tough, self-reliant, able to manage pain and take charge of situations. This can make it hard for men to acknowledge they have any health problems, let alone a mental health problem.

Depression is a serious and common condition which won't get better by itself. If you had a broken arm or a deep cut on your foot, you wouldn't expect that to heal without medical help. It's the same with depression.

But what is depression? How is it different to just being sad for a bit?

Men are more likely to recognise and describe the physical symptoms of depression (such as feeling tired or losing weight) than women. Men may acknowledge feeling irritable or angry, rather than saying they feel low. Everyone feels "down" occasionally but if you've been sad, moody, angry or unable to sleep or concentrate for more than a couple of weeks, it could be depression. You might also lose interest in work, sport, sex, going out, or other things you used to enjoy.

Depression is very common, with 1 in 8 men experiencing it at some stage of their life. You need to know the signs – not only for you, but also for your mates and family.

It may be a good idea for you to read through some of the Beyondblue site and gain some sort of understanding of the male depressive issues that you seem to be unaware of. And it's not really helpful to tell depressed people that there's no such thing, or that they're faking it—particularly in a thread devoted to discussing these issues.

[olfella]

Mex, you may have good arguments for some of your points, but what we are saying is that this thread is not the place to argue them on. Why not start a new thread yourself and see how it flies?

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by mex351

I'd love to reply but apparently if I do Im been argumentative? Go figure ?

I accept and understand your feelings but if I'm to honest I will offend those less than realistic then gain more warning points based on the fact I don't believe most men are been honest,just sooky?

.....I'll say it again...men need to be proud men again not be allowed to have angles to push into soft whimpy sooks with blame in there eyes instead of pride and commitment based on there choices and no fakes.My whole point all along,nothing more or less and my view will not change cos some say I should.If I make a mistake I'll wear it if not I stand up for what I believe in cos I'm honest.

,,,,,,,,,,Have a nice day all or do what ever you want cos I just don't care

Mex 351

I really do not think you truly comprehend the black hole of depression. It can suck you in so you see no light, black, no joy or sense of anything being worthwhile, and for some it morphs into a physiological disability with chemical imbalances (eg serotonin ) in the brain.

Some people have inherent problems with serotonin receptors or serotonin levels and need lifelong psychiatric medication leveling to function.

Many and varied reasons that one can be sucked in to the black dog even if you do not have such hard wiring chemical problems, with subjective and objective factors at play.

In my profession there is a certain niche, which I chose not to pursue because I did some, and I did not feel good about it-felt black afterwards, other people who focus on it, a lot of them require weekly counseling to keep functioning. Someone needs to do this work for the community, but not me, I know I do not have the mental fortitude to do it-and the people who do and suffer depression and cope with counseling are incredibly strong....

Some people can step away from the darkness with constructive small steps, others need help with chemicals and support networks.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is rather puerile and quite frankly insensitive and hurtful to sufferers who are often incredibly strong to be able to keep functioning, often for the benefit of people who rely on them, despite being in the black dog.

[Tui2]

Is it safe to come out now.. has the bad man gone..?
He didn't like me... he never said it to my face.. but I could tell.
Thank you all.. that includes our supportive Moderators.. for understanding the need for release of our unhealthy thoughts that can bottle up and pop under pressure or we don't look and talk Beyond

[Madaya]

There are good mates here you have never even met.
I've started going to AA before a problem became a big problem. Some of the stories make me cringe. But today, these story tellers, male and female, young and old are saying they haven't touched a drop in decades, or alternatively, a day.
No judgement, no pressure. Alcoholics know one another.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by mex351

Again need to make our people loud and strong and help those that need it not turn everyone into a bunch of mitten wearing gooses who can't help our selves when 1 thing goe's wrong so instantly the claim is depression. Yes we all feel down but honestly Gary Lyon and co didn't appear depressed but I bet there were made out to be afterwards.

Soft,when they know right form wrong but don't take responsibility for there actions,instead blame a sickness.

You know, when i read the first couple of posts you made my first thoughts were this is back lash from Gary Lyon's antics.
The fact that you have referred to the incident is telling.

I agree and the general concensus was that the drama surrounding the situation has not helped the genuine cause.
Most people believe GL used mental illness to lessen his responsibility in the situation, given, but that doesnt mean that depression isnt a real problem for many.

Is male depression on the rise, yes.
Is that rise a result of societies acceptance that men can be depressed, no doubt.
Does that mean that we are all becoming sook's, no, just means those who suffered in silence before can now be heard and helped.

Where's the problem.

[Tui2]

a junkie can still have morals n a good heart, if you offer the right type of help that won't allow them to abuse it, therefore keeping their self esteem at a possible level to want to keep on the right path, to never feel judgement, to be reassured of mortality and understanding factors that mould us as indviduals, and a trust that will ONLY BE OFFERED if they wish to not abuse in anyway, for assured continuous support to fall back on if needed. NO JUDGEMENT IF WE DO OR DONT, CAN BUT WON'T, CAN'T BUT WILL TRY AGAIN, AND AGAIN...
after all no matter how many councilling sessions i have received over the years and given noted advice to in return, i can't seem to apply all i KNOW to help myself, just a fact of mental disorders.

[BLUEYBA]

Originally Posted by 223thecure

I never cease to be amazed at just how prevalent this kind of human behaviour is in our decadent Western societies, dealing with our 'First World problems'.

I have just spent the last 18 months living in the 'Third World' in and around people dealing with poverty on a scale that most Westerners just could NEVER become accustomed to. What has amazed me is the resilience of these people who have NOTHING ... next to NO money, NO proper accommodation & for the most part ... are ALWAYS hungry ... BUT you never hear them complaining ! They just 'suck it up' & get on because there is NO assistance from Government. There is NO Centrelink to hand out free money, there is NO Medicare to provide free medical treatment, there is NO 'subsidised' rentals for low income earners ... there is just a daily struggle to stay ALIVE !!!

I have rationalised that these people living in the most attrocious conditions where there is no care from the government whether you live or die ... these people just simply do NOT have the 'Luxury' of being 'Depressed' ... and believe me, they have GOOD reasons to be anxious & depressed ! Instead what I see in them is they just accept .. and make the best of what they have.

Would love to take my kids there and show them how nice their life is ... instead of whining about not getting a new $100 Xbox game, they could see people including their kids living on the side of a 6x lane highway in a packing crate built humpy with a leaky tarp for a roof. NO running water, NO bathroom, NO toilet, NO electricity ... absolute, abject POVERTY !!!

Depression seems to be a luxury that us decadent Westerners are afforded ... something that people who really do it tough in life, don't have the luxury of 'suffering' from !

For me, the last 18 months has helped me see the world in perspective and understand what a PARADISE we live in, here in the luckiest country in the world !

Just my 5c worth !

As bad as the people in third world countries lives are and everything they go through to survive.
this doesn't mean the problems we have are not important. Just because our society has moved further and we experience different problems doesn't mean out problems are not important. especially health ones

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by blackf6

I died once. After a breakup with a girlfriend. Waking up not being able to breathe,with a balloon down my throat, getting my stomach pumped. Plus a killer migraine was enough to deter me. Life can be depressing at times. Work, work, work, sleep repeat.

Life has too many unanswered questions. It seems the only way to enjoy it is to live in the moment and not question anything. Is that how a 'normal' functioning human lives? Ignorance is bliss, but what happens when one is no longer content with living like this? Questions like: 'Why are we born ?' 'Did I have a choice to be born or not?' 'Why be happy if everything is temporal?' 'Why sleep if you have to wake up again?' 'Why eat if you will get hungry again?' 'If there is no birth, there is no death, so therefore being born is extremely cruel, so birth is a tragedy?' Once these thoughts bombard you long enough, waking up becomes a chore, eating becomes a chore, existing itself becomes a chore.. Everything grows meaningless, reality itself looks more and more like a big scam, a big illusion and so does 'happiness' or whatever that means. No amount of money, affection, material possessions can really create that mythical 'happiness'. So what is happiness? Being able to maintain a neutral balance of emotions? If one were constantly happy, wouldn't they then be insane ? So what is the opposite of depression, if one has most probably slipped into depression? Is it the care free , gullible mindset of a child which always hopes for the best, believes in 'forever' before all these concepts are dented, scratched and destroyed by the elements of this cruel existence ?

[Trump]

The same thoughts and ideas were coursing through my head today Mr Malazn...

[Road Games]

I have had depression for a long time... Decades even, mostly brought about by bad choices and decisions ... like typing on the interwebs for example ?

Those that truly know me are well aware i wear my heart on my sleeve and i never back down from a challenge regardless of the financial burden i have created sometimes on myself and my family.

Available cash flow can be a constant cause for Depression, but with careful planning i believe we can all have meaningful things and most importantly a fruitful and enjoyable quality of life.

We all just need to keep looking through the smoke until we find the light.

Message to the Haters:

Whenever someone criticizes you they are telling you their story NOT YOURS... Some people give up real easy and lose the drive to carry on.

They try, they GIVE UP then develop a false perception about it or anything similar.

The sad thing about some haters is that they ASSUME and never try because they have already sabotaged their abilities and have SET LIMITATIONS ON THEM SELVES then try to impose THEIR OWN LIMITATIONS (ON YOU).

Be careful who you let influence you, some people are positive and full of encouragement and some are full of negativity, LIMITATIONS and POISON.

When I pursue any task I do it with 110% PASSION & EFFORT and I don't let anybody tell me I CANT or STOP ME, YOU DO THE SAME...

Peace out and have a great week

Daz

[Squalo]

Great post DAZZLR. Also Malazn Mafia's post touched a nerve. Having gone three solid rounds with the black dog in the last ten years I am fairly well tuned into where I'm at most of the time, and lately too much of what Malazn outlined is creeping in... even after the most awesome day out at the beach with my kids I still find myself wondering whether it's worth bothering too much when it comes to planning or generally making an effort. Fatigue is also an issue for me lately. All classic signals, but I don't want to go back to ADs because while they help they also take the edge off all the good/great emotions too. So what to do - well, cut back on alcohol intake and bump up the physical exercise for starters, so that's what I'm doing... trying to do. And connecting with people more - I live a pretty lonely existence Mon-Fri, which certainly doesn't help.

My two cents on the earlier discourse - helping someone who has clinical depression may be an eye-opener to someone with a closed mind, but it still comes nowhere near close to giving them a real understanding of clinical depression.

Unless you have been there yourself you are highly unlikely to be able to join the dots. A strong sense of empathy isn't enough unless you can also appreciate what a depressed person is actually going through. But even when I lived with my ex she really didn't seem to 'see' how totally wrecked I was when I was at my lowest.

[danzvtil]

Congratulations Mex, you are part of the problem.

Please consider the consequences of your words, people reading them who are in a bad place today may feel you are minimising their battle.
If you cant offer constructive, supportive input then GTFO.

[Tui2]

YES!! good to have positive posts to start the day, I'm off to purchase a Notebook to replace this annoying extra large smartphone (tablet), AS I'M FINALLY GETTING THE HANG OF INTERWEB and utilising techno..tological...soft where? and hope harvey gives me 6months interest free credit, spent all savings on Fairmont and i don't have a credit rating cause I've haven't had a loan or credit card since in my 20s.
good day good thoughts good mind to all LATER T

[snopony]

Originally Posted by Trejo

YES!! good to have positive posts to start the day, I'm off to purchase a Notebook to replace this annoying extra large smartphone (tablet), AS I'M FINALLY GETTING THE HANG OF INTERWEB and utilising techno..tological...soft where? and hope harvey gives me 6months interest free credit, spent all savings on Fairmont and i don't have a credit rating cause I've haven't had a loan or credit card since in my 20s.
good day good thoughts good mind to all LATER T

If it helps, for any low income earners there is an option of a Step up loan or a Nils loan.... They are not credit cards they are finance to low income earners who need white goods, computers or car repairs etc. repayments are fixed and low and it's designed to help people get ahead without paying disgustingly high fees and interest. Just google step up loan (thru the NAB) or NILS. Might suit depending on your circumstances.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by snopony

If it helps, for any low income earners there is an option of a Step up loan or a Nils loan.... They are not credit cards they are finance to low income earners who need white goods, computers or car repairs etc. repayments are fixed and low and it's designed to help people get ahead without paying disgustingly high fees and interest. Just google step up loan (thru the NAB) or NILS. Might suit depending on your circumstances.

^^^ Good post snopony.

Also, if you're on Centrelink benefits - even partial like me, you can apply for a interest free loan over 12 months.

I'm on partial Newstart allowance as I have a casual job and income varies. Can apply for a hardship loan of $500. You just have to demonstrate that you can afford to pay it back and nominate what you can pay back out of your benefit per fortnight. Centrelink just reduce your fortnightly benefit on the agreed amount. You can pay over the specified amount when times turn good. Has pulled me out of the "poo" a few times - hate borrowing coin though.

Cheers!