Pedestrian Run Down By Cyclist

[Guzz226]

I already have Bicycle Vic and Tri Vic cover as I don't have the same coverage available to me as a motorist

[Guzz226]

Maybe we need a run of 'I drive and I ride.....and I vote' stickers for both our cars and our bike number plates?

Something they could invoke fairly quickly would be to make riding with your drivers licence mandatory

Won't be an issue for most cyclists given they are drivers as well

Bit of an issue for old mate who lost his licence driving like a hoon or drunk that is now forced to get to work on his old MTB though - perhaps such cases could be covered with a special permit?

Reduces the cost and overhead for the masses or taxpayers

No more or less fool proof than driver licence and rego though given the number of repay offenders that just don't comply

The main issue here is a selfish minority that just do what they want in life - rules basically keep the honest majority honest

It's the same people that date take 9 or more items thru the Woolies express checkout!!

[LG17]

Originally Posted by tempted

Typical cyclists, demand courtesy and respect but contribute nothing. You can't have it both ways.

Now who's generalising!

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by tempted

Typical cyclists, demand courtesy and respect but contribute nothing. You can't have it both ways.

And what do you contribute? Apart from your demonstration of stupidiy to the wider public?

[Guzz226]

Originally Posted by mcnews

And what do you contribute? Apart from your demonstration of stupidiy to the wider public?

He probably thought on a car forum it would be a safe harbour for a pro car, anti cyclist rant and he would have lots of support - and wasn't prepared for such a lack of support and actually such opposition to his views.

I have to admit such a broad number of contributors providing various views has (pleasantly) surprised me as well - everything from bikes to roller blades to video games and Tony Hawk - far from the cyclist lynch mob perhaps some thought or hoped for.

This thread alone demonstrates there are various views on the topic, yet most people are reasonable, moderate and tolerant of others - only a very small vocal minority seem to have any issues. Miles away from the claimed majority if FF are an indication of the population at large.

Gotta love a democracy!

[Guzz226]

We haven't covered off the role of Kangaroos in all this yet!

youtube linky

So should Australian natives pay rego too to use 'our' roads?

Good to see the drivers stop and render assistance though.

[LG17]

Oh no Skip!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Guzz226

You need to be banned for being so logical - no place for that here!

Bourney has a habit of ruining a perfectly good thread (?) with logic

[prydey]

Originally Posted by tempted

1. I'm not looking for support.

i wonder how you would react if/when a b double (or any truck) gets in your face on the road. you know, sits a bit close for your liking behind you, or indicates to move over in to your lane while you are still there, or passes a bit close to you etc etc.

do you call them cowboys etc and get all angry?

after all, size wins, right? they also pay much much more in rego etc so they have more right to be there, right??

[LG17]

Originally Posted by tempted

I just accelerate or change lanes and remove myself from the dangerous situation.

If you pay attention on the road you would have noticed lots of those little filmy things in cars and trucks too. Gee, the results of many of those films are all over the internet!

[mik]

Originally Posted by wildrider

true, but who's the one who has to live with the fact a cyclist went in front of his truck??? not exactly something you'd wanna live with, especially if the cyclists just went out in front of truck with out any warning

fully agree mate, car drivers are also guilty of trying to drive under your duals...... you have to drive and watch out for the unpredictable pedestrian/cyclist/biker/motorist every second, this is the world we live in.

[Whitey-AMG]

Its a much bigger issue that cars v cycles
Its cars v cycles v motorbikes v buses v pedestrians v trams v trucks

Time is everyone's enemy and patience and courtesy is a virtue long forgotten.
What's even more sorely lacking is a general lack of empathy and a disturbing increase in peoples propensity to bury their heads up their asses each time they venture out onto our roads.
Our kindergartens need to get back to basics and start teaching tolerance , sharing and patience to our kids so the next generation of humans doesn't continue to spiral into madness.
Some scary stuff on here........

[prydey]

Originally Posted by tempted

Here is a perfect example of why I hate cyclists.

while i agree he could have handled the situation differently, i would assume from the evidence, that he was planning a right turn at the intersection, and most likely indicating with his arm or something this intention.

like many drivers, the motorist decided he was too busy to just wait the 10seconds extra behind, and decided to be first to the intersection. a classic example of many motorists behaviour when they come up to a cyclist.


as for hand picking footage of the internet to suit your argument, i'm pretty sure there is a mountain of footage to incriminate motorists also. an isolated incident means nothing. it just incriminates those involved, not the whole group or community, or is that too simple to figure out?


for what its worth, when i'm riding and approaching an intersection where you can turn both ways, or roundabouts, i also 'take the lane' (move to the centre) as this is the safest spot to be for me. if i stay to the left, guaranteed some smart motorist will try to squeeze by.


patience and tolerance are 2 characteristics that are becoming less and less common in society in general. bluey-gt makes a good point about reinforcing it in kindy's, but it wouldn't surprise me if even at that age they have their heads glued to a screen of some sort.

imaginary friends are more real now than they have ever been

[Guzz226]

A couple of learnings from this thread:
- yes the cyclist is aggressive in his response. In fact upon reflection he has admitted as much - refer to his comment on the youtube page "Not my best day and differently not my best response to aggressive driving. I really should have left it to the camera and kept my mouth shut"

-the driver should also have been more patient and waiting the 30m or so and passed after the stop sign - who knows maybe the cyclist was turning in a different direction anyway - what time has he 'saved' by rushing around the bike, passing too close to the bike (1m+ matters) and crossing the double lines in the process?

As many others have said, our roads work when all users are patient, considerate and work together - aggression and-or impatience by any road user, regardless of vehicle of choice generally never ends well.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by tempted

Here is a perfect example of why I hate cyclists.

No

Here is a perfect example of 2 protagonists without a skerrit of respect for anyone or anything but themselves. Both confrontational , non apologetic and acting out some I'll conceived notion that they are somehow entitled to so much more than anyone else. These 2 clowns could have been walking past each other and bumped shoulders and still would have carried on like octodad.

Didn't look like either of them was headed to a hospital emergency ward ? Did the car really need to overtake or was he demonstrating a subliminal need for superiority because he's in a car. The bike guy could also quite easily have pulled over or motioned to the car to overtake, signalling an acceptance of slower motion and obstruction, thus, displaying some empathy for the car .... But no , he too is demonstrating some god given need to display some personal authority and moral high ground. Swings and roundabouts, 2 douche bags is all I saw in that example. Didn't prove a thing either way....

[Guzz226]

Originally Posted by prydey

while i agree he could have handled the situation differently, i would assume from the evidence, that he was planning a right turn at the intersection, and most likely indicating with his arm or something this intention.

like many drivers, the motorist decided he was too busy to just wait the 10seconds extra behind, and decided to be first to the intersection. a classic example of many motorists behaviour when they come up to a cyclist.


as for hand picking footage of the internet to suit your argument, i'm pretty sure there is a mountain of footage to incriminate motorists also. an isolated incident means nothing. it just incriminates those involved, not the whole group or community, or is that too simple to figure out?


for what its worth, when i'm riding and approaching an intersection where you can turn both ways, or roundabouts, i also 'take the lane' (move to the centre) as this is the safest spot to be for me. if i stay to the left, guaranteed some smart motorist will try to squeeze by.


patience and tolerance are 2 characteristics that are becoming less and less common in society in general. bluey-gt makes a good point about reinforcing it in kindy's, but it wouldn't surprise me if even at that age they have their heads glued to a screen of some sort.

imaginary friends are more real now than they have ever been

you wrote your response at the same time as mine

'Taking the lane' at intersections is best practice for all involved and promoted as the safest approach for cyclists and makes it easy for other vehicles to see and understand their actions.

Agree about the early education. I reckon it has to be that and more though - it has gotta start at home and be lead and driven by the parents and then supported by the education system. Schools are under resourced as it is and too many folk want them to solve all of societies ills - sadly many kids have poor role models at home and thats where schools, sporting clubs etc can help offset this to a degree.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by tempted

Bingo..

Please don't single out individual quotes. I am not supporting your argument. I'm merely being objective. I don't like to put people in boxes and call them cyclists or motorists or pedestrians singularly. Most behaviors are driven by far more than the mode of transport you have chosen on that day. All road users need to be mindful of the real and present dangers they face. If your kid was on a bike, I'm sure you'd be hoping they wouldn't encounter inconsiderate and narcissistic personality disorder affected car, bus or motorcycle drivers.

[Guzz226]

Originally Posted by tempted

Bingo.

If you live in Melbourne go down Beach Rd. If in Sydney the Shire.

Just watch and observe.

Yes you will see some bad behaviour but it is nowhere, anywhere near most.

Bad behaviour is not limited to the mode of transport at the time - such people tend to act this way when on their bike, in line at Woolies, wlaking down the street, driving their car, at the footy etc etc etc Their bike behaviour is simply indicative of them and their overall behaviour.

It is simply not representative of most cyclists.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by tempted

............this only reinforces my views that cyclists should not be allowed to mix with motor vehicles on the road, full stop.......

............Hopefully one day this guy will become a transmission sump inspector..............

............The pencil pushers who dream up these laws giving cyclists rights should get out from behind their desks and out into the real world, where they will see that there is simply no place for cyclists on the roads............

............I don't have to prove anything. Get out from underneath the rock you are living under and you will see it for yourself.................

............Isn't it funny how cyclists whinge and moan about being stereotyped, but are happy to label anybody who doesn't ride a bike as a fat burger eating slob? Hypocrites...............

............It's because the ******** that wear lycra think they are in the Tour De France and ride like they are the only ones on the road.........

............Yeah close the thread when you can't handle the truth..............

............If your training and exercise is so important then go to a bloody velodrome instead of being a burden to those who pay to use the roads for what they were intended for........


............The roads were built for motorised transportation, they are not training tracks..............

............Cyclists have been abusing the roads and road laws, whinging and tarring motorists with the same brush for far too long.
The roads are getting more and more clogged and cyclist are demanding more and more space, yet don't contribute a cent towards it.
Its time to fight back against all this BS..............

............I don't confront, harrass, lecture or film them like cyclists think they have the god given right to do..............

I realise that this is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it might be a good idea to cut back on the venom.

[ratter]

thank god there has never been any confrontations from motorist towards other users



oh wait, there is it even has a name called road rage.

makes the news quite often and has actually led to deaths.

Must mean that all car drivers are road ragers and murderers if we want to go by tempteds logic, but thank god, most people like him are just keyboard warriors and can keep their attitudes in control when actually facing another human being

[LTDHO]

FYI

For those who prefer to ride on the footpath.

Originally Posted by rules

250 Riding on a footpath or shared path

(1) The rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older must not ride on a footpath unless:
(a) if the rider is an adult—the rider is accompanying a child under 12 years of age who is riding on the footpath and the child is under the rider’s supervision, or
(b) if the rider is not an adult—the rider is under the supervision of an accompanying adult as referred to in paragraph (a), or
(c) the rider is a postal worker who is riding the bicycle in the course of his or her duties as a postal worker, or
(d) the rider is carrying a person who is under 10 years old as a passenger on the bicycle or in or on a bicycle trailer towed by the bicycle and the bicycle is not a pedicab.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

Note 1. Bicycle trailer is defined in rule 257 and footpath and postal worker are defined in the Dictionary.
Note 2. Subrule (1) is not uniform with the corresponding subrule in rule 250 of the Australian Road Rules. However, the corresponding subrule in the Australian Road Rules allows another law of this jurisdiction to prohibit a rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older from riding on a footpath. Different rules may apply in other Australian jurisdictions.
Note 3. A rider of a bicycle who is under 12 years of age may ride on a footpath unless such a rider is prohibited from doing so under rule 250–1 or rule 252.
(2) The rider of a bicycle riding on a footpath or shared path must:
(a) keep to the left of the footpath or shared path unless it is impracticable to do so, and
(b) give way to any pedestrian on the footpath or shared path.

[Xauterus]

Those rules are different in queensland.

Tempted.

I watched an episode of R BT on TV and I discovered that 90% of people driving are drunk.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by tempted

Bingo. And you can't deny that an overwhelming majority of cyclists behave in this manner..

Is that like the overwhelming majority of bigots only have one eye and even it doesn't work properly?

[TheSneakiness]

I think I ate about 4kg of popcorn reading this. Wow didn't that escalate?

I am still in favour of a cyclist identifier whether a licence plate or whatever.

I did read somewhere throughout the diatribe and he said/she said that I wouldn't ride in an 80km zone. The Centenary Highway in QLD between Yamanto and Springfield you see riders (and the odd runner) everyday along there and the speed limit is 100km/h, frequented by dip**** drivers and heavy trucks. Now tell me you'd feel safe there considering that, along with debris everywhere and skippy bounding out in front of you.

[mcnews]

All the roads I generally ride on are 80 or 100 zones, no lower speed limit zones around here really. 98 per cent of drivers are totally cool all the time, I keep left, they reply in kind by giving me an extra bit of space. Some dimwits like to pass as close as they can as it somehow makes them feel tough or something, but it the rarity rather than the norm.

[Guzz226]

Totally agree - I subscribe to the "I'd rather be alive than legally right" theory, rather than I will do whatever I am legally entitled to do.

Instead of riding on multilane 80 and 100km roads, I ride 50% longer (30km not 20km) using quieter tertiary roads to avoid as much traffic as possible.

Not all cyclists take such a risk mitigation approach to cycling though - in addition to where some ride and how some ride, things such as lights are also an issue for some.

I do a lot of riding out the back of Werribee near the You Yangs and Brisbane Ranges - whilst 100km/h zones their is little traffic. Ironically this is where a lot of the footage for Mad Max was filmed.

[blueoval]

It's interesting the comments made for not riding on roads marked 100kph. I was in Perth recently and parts of the Kwinana freeway had bike shoulder lanes which were wide enough to park a car on. The lanes were clearly marked and all, and the traffic was not inconvenienced in any way by this lane. If there was infrastructure like this in ALL major cities, then I applaud it.

In saying that, I would only consider this freeway as a last resort. No point in tempting fate (no pun intended).

Im all for rider ID. Again, where do I pay?

[mcnews]

The rider ID thing is seriously problematic though, it really is. Most small number plates would be hard to mount, and said mounts will inevitably crack on most road bikes due to their lack of suspension and high pressure tyres etc. on rough roads. Could said plate then also cause injury in a crash? I think it is plain just too hard to be honest.

[LoudPipes]

Here’s an article in today’s Sydney Morning Herald including a link to a reader’s Poll and comments on ‘should cyclists use their bell when approaching walkers?’

Cyclists ringing bells: considerate or annoying?

Date: 22 January, 2015
Michael O'Reilly another MAMIL (Middle-Aged Man In Lycra).

So there you are, walking along a "shared" path, authorised for use by pedestrians as well as cyclists.

Somewhere behind you, there is a universally familiar sound – the ringing of a bell as someone on a bike approaches.

Do you say to yourself: "Ah, a considerate cyclist." Or do you think: "How rude!"

When, and how, to use a bell is one of the more vexing issues in the sometimes troubled relationship between pedestrians and riders. Read any comments thread that touches on the subject, and you're likely to find people complaining about cyclists who use their bells - and cyclists who don't use their bells.

The dislike of treadly tintinnabulation is such a cliche it even showed up on last week's Family Feud TV game show as one of the top answers to the question, "name something annoying a cyclist might do".

So what are the rules and regulations? According to Australian Road Rule 258, it is a legal requirement to have a "bell, horn or similar warning device, in working order", attached to your bicycle.

It's not there just for show, either. In the Victorian government's advisory on "sharing roads and paths", under the heading "be courteous", is encouragement to "use your bell, or voice, when approaching pedestrians and other bicycle riders". Similar advice is offered by relevant authorities in other states.

But it's a tricky thing to do because, as most cyclists will attest, you're never quite sure what the response to a warning "trrringggg" might be.

(A) Ideally, those up ahead will keep moving predictably, or maybe shift to the left to allow extra room to pass.

(B) Some people might startle and move in an unexpected direction, while groups of people might scatter randomly. What was a simple passing manoeuvre has now become more complicated.

(C) Some people simply don't hear you. It might be that they're lost in their own thoughts, hard of hearing, or have their ears plugged with a sound system. If and when the sound does get through, get ready for an even more startled version of (B).

(D) Then there are those who steadfastly refuse to acknowledge you, or respond with irritation. Or they might be (C), trending to (B).

Faced with these difficulties, it's tempting to ride past without giving any signal, if there is enough room.

But it's often not a wise or polite thing to do. I wrote previously about the shock I got when a bloke on a bike came rushing past me while I was walking on a shared path near the Sydney Harbour Bridge– he'd given me heaps of room, but I still nearly jumped out of my skin. It's an experience I recall whenever I ride past walkers.

So what's the best way to do it? Sophie Bartho of Bicycle NSW says cyclists should "ring your bell well in advance, always pass slowly at a safe distance".

A lot of it has to do with attitude, she adds. "The bell should be a friendly 'tingle', not a jarring 'ring ring ring'. Always use it with respect and courtesy, and the best finale is a 'thank you' and a wave."

Shared paths have their place, but ideally, riders and walkers should be separated on busy thoroughfares. Even though a report to the NSW government stated that "the perception of danger is much greater than the actual risks of bicyclists and pedestrians on shared paths", no one likes to feel at risk, and authorities should be pressured by walkers and riders alike to provide better facilities when needed.




In the meantime, we need to find ways to get along. So I'm interested to know – what are your feelings about bicycles and bells?

As a pedestrian, as a cyclist – as a fellow member of the human race?

It's unscientific, of course, but for an easy option, please vote in the poll, and give your thoughts in the comments section below. And hey, people, work with me here – let's try and keep it constructive?

To encourage constructive debate, this blog will be carefully moderated; please stay on topic.

http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/fitness/on-your-bike/cyclists-ringing-bells-considerate-or-annoying-20150121-12v2zn.html

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

The Centenary Highway in QLD between Yamanto and Springfield you see riders (and the odd runner) everyday along there and the speed limit is 100km/h, frequented by dip**** drivers and heavy trucks. Now tell me you'd feel safe there considering that, along with debris everywhere and skippy bounding out in front of you.

i just spent 4 weeks with my folks in greenbank, so know this stretch of road. travelled it on the way in, and on the way out. it is a freeway, but it does have a verge wide enough for cars (breakdown lane) so there is plenty of room to ride. on the way out (early sat morning) i saw quite a few riders heading both directions and able to ride well off the road, so i assume debris can't have been too bad. tyre technology is pretty good these days too, so if you are like me and buy tyres that have maximum protection but are a bit heavier, then they will hold up on most conditions.

i would never venture on to these roads without a rear light though, and a good one at that. my light is a bit annoying for others when riding in groups, but at least i know i am being seen.

some cyclists only mount lights just to cover off the legalities of it, which i think is a bit too little.