Russia v Ukraine

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Almost like its suggesting that those who dare challenge the status quo, apply critical thinking, refuse to swallow everything that gov and msm feeds them, will automatically become an enemy of the state.

Yep... pretty much

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Yep... pretty much

Bingo. He and his numpties should have challenged what his POTUS and FOX news was telling him at the time

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Mulva

C'mon Cav, that guys has proven to be less accurate than this guy was...

image

What idiot thought up the idea of accuracy when engaging in warfare?

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Itsme

I find it amusing as to how some people in this topic want to legitimise vladimir Putin decision to invade Ukraine.
God help us if Australia ever gets invaded as I'm sure there will be those with a welcome mat at their front door along with a hand shake.

An open mind is often branded as a conspiracy theorist.

NATO has been expanding in Eastern Europe for a few years now.

The globalists wanted more countries to join them so they expanded east - then Ukraine was mooted as becoming part of NATO.

What fool thought that was a good idea?

NATO right on Putin's doorstep?

This was a repeat of the USSR threat known as the Cuban missile crisis

Cuban Missile Crisis
an international crisis in October 1962, the closest approach to nuclear war at any time between the US and the USSR. When the US discovered Soviet nuclear missiles on Cuba, President John F. Kennedy demanded their removal and announced a naval blockade of the island; the Soviet leader Khrushchev acceded to the US demands a week later.

In a similar strategy, NATO was poking the bear and we are now (well the Ukranies are) suffering the results.

History is often overlooked, to our peril.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Wasn't it only last week that the Russians were saying that the Ukraine plot was to spread a virus using migrating birds?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ghters-ukraine

Yep, that was the plan, but then they found out it wouldn't work because, you know...birds aren't real!

Originally Posted by Cav

What fool thought that was a good idea?

NATO right on Putin's doorstep?

NATO are already on Putin's doorstep. Latvia and Estonia are already part of NATO and share a border with Russia. Thanks to the invasion of Ukraine, the majority of civilians in Finland now want to join NATO too (Finland also shares a border with Russia), and even the perennial neutral Sweden has majority of Swedes wanting them to join NATO too.

Countries want to join NATO as they are worried about Russia invading them; Russia invades countries because they want to join NATO (and other reasons too - like how dare they want to be democratic or join the EU or chose their own destiny).

Oh yeah, Russia also invades to wipe out Nazi military units. Wonder if they'll next go after their own Wagner Nazis, or if we will be next

[MITCHAY]

President Zelensky has addressed a joint session of parliament and specifically requested Bushmasters and I think he had a jab we might as well send our M1 Abrams tanks as they of little use to us here.

100% agree. 59 M1s and I think over 1000 Bushmasters. We have 8 C-17s, 12 C-130j Hercules and two amphibious assault / LHD ships to get them over there. So we could spare a few.

I'm sure the US would also help out in that assuming no issues exporting the M1. Gives our boys some trips and some more training and practically helps Ukraine.

Might as well give them the ARH Tigers too, France can help out with that

[John 13]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

If one wanted to prosecute chemical warfare, the recipe is simple; poison coated USD$50 notes sprinkled by drones in cities anywhere.

Chemical warfare, yeah! like the installations supplied by the US to Iraq and used in it's invasion into Iran. (Another proxy war)

[Mulva]

Those that say the US are behind all this - I dunno, I'm trying to consider that point of view but I just can't get passed the bit where that means Biden is incredibly clever and Putin is so amazingly stupid to get played by Biden so badly.

But if true, then it really is damning of Putin and impressive by Biden - to get Putin to walk into a trap where Putin's own actions have resulted in:

• more countries looking to join NATO

• NATO being reinvigorated and more united after the wedges that were driven by the previous US administration

• NATO members like Germany finally pledging to meet their obligation to spend 2% of their GDP on defence, further increasing NATO's capabilities and strength

• Partially testing the capabilities of Russia's military

• Real life field testing of US weapons against Russian forces and Russian equipment without entering direct conflict with Russia and risking US troops

• Exposing deficiencies in Russian military equipment in real world combat, which will hurt future sales to other nations as many must surely be questioning whether to buy things like tanks from Russia (particularly given they could probably get some second hand ones much cheaper from Ukrainian farmers)

• Inflicting significant losses on Russia's military, both equipment and personnel, without risking US troops

• Inflicting massive damage to Russia's economy, damage that could take decades to recover from

Those are just some of the benefits to the US, NATO and "The West", and drawbacks/damage for Russia, as a result of Putin's decision to invade.

So if you guys are right, and the US is behind all this, then seriously impressive of Biden to play Putin like a puppet...Biden playing 3D-chess while Putin playing Kerplunk.

Nope, I just can't see it, but maybe you guys are right. Boss move by Biden if so, rookie effort from Putin.

[Cav]

The trigger was when Germany joined NATO rather than the Warsaw Pack with an agreement that NATO would not spread any further east.

NATO spreading east lead to Russian aggression, not the other way around.

[Mulva]

Obviously all of the above ignores the loss and suffering inflicted on both Ukraine and Russia, but then I can't see how you can put the blame for that on the US even if they created the circumstances that influenced Putin to invade. The decision to invade was made by Putin and Putin alone - he is the one that weighed it all up and decided the loss and suffering on on both sides is justified by the reasons he invaded.

Obviously I don't think his reasons for invasion are righteous, not even close.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Cav

The trigger was when Germany joined NATO rather than the Warsaw Pack with an agreement that NATO would not spread any further east.

NATO spreading east lead to Russian aggression, not the other way around.

Depends on who you listen to or want to believe - and then the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Gorbachev still says "not one inch East" was never said, but many others even on the US side say it was said during negotiations for Germany to be reunited under NATO, but that condition was then withdrawn during negotiations.

IMO...absolutely "not one inch East" was said...it was on the table but was never agree to. It is not part of the treaty the soviets signed.

The USSR fell apart under a wave of anti-communism protests - overwhelming majority of civilians in eastern bloc countries wanted western-style democracy. They also wanted protection. Germany was never going to join the Warsaw Pact - East Germany wanted out of the East, they wanted West. East Germany withdrew from the Warsaw Pact in 1990, and in Feb 1991 the Pact was ended by the 6 remaining members.

NATO does not recruit - countries apply for membership, and there is strict criteria. Putin himself was looking at Russia joining NATO but did not want to "wait in line with countries that don't matter"; he wanted to be invited.

Maybe Ukraine should have invaded Russia back then when Putin was looking to join NATO...to avoid having NATO on their doorstep.

You know I've always felt for Poland and you can't begrudge them joining NATO out of fear of further invasion when they were "released' from the East. I mean we literally went to war with Germany when they invaded Poland - went to war to liberate Poland - but then at the end of the war, Poland was left under control of Russia. WTF? Allies didn't liberate Poland, just changed their conqueror.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Cav

The trigger was when Germany joined NATO rather than the Warsaw Pack with an agreement that NATO would not spread any further east.

NATO spreading east lead to Russian aggression, not the other way around.

It's not really accurate to say that Germany joined NATO rather than the Warsaw pact. When West Germany joined NATO (1955) East Germany joined the Warsaw pact. But Russian aggression had started before that with the West Berlin blockade in 1948.

I can't find any record of an agreement to not expand NATO eastwards being made at that time; it would have been pointless. East Germany, Poland, Czech republic, Hungary Romania were all under Soviet control. The Hungarian uprising (1956) and the Czech revolution (1968) were all violently suppressed by Russia long before NATO considered expansion.

[FairmontGS]

Russian forces leave Chernobyl nuclear plant, transferring control to Ukraine

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) says Russian forces have begun leaving the Chernobyl nuclear plant after transferring control "in writing" of the defunct facility to Ukrainian personnel.

Ukraine’s state power company, Energoatom, said Russian troops began leaving the nuclear plant after soldiers got "significant doses" of radiation from digging trenches at the highly contaminated site.

Edwin Lyman, a nuclear expert with the US-based Union of Concerned Scientists, said it "seems unlikely" a large number of troops would develop severe radiation illness, but it was impossible to know for sure without more details.

He said contaminated material was probably buried or covered with new topsoil during the clean-up of Chernobyl, and some soldiers might have been exposed to a "hotspot" of radiation while digging.

Others might have assumed they were at risk too, he said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-...iaea/100957466

[MITCHAY]

I was glad to hear that Australia will be sending the Bushmasters as requested

The problem is the logistics getting them over there quickly. We have no idea of numbers yet but with our allies, we can make this work.

[Mulva]

Assuming the helicopter strike on Russian fuel depot is legit, I'm surprised to see Ukraine hitting a target in Russia with no resistance.

And going by the responses to this tweet, so are the locals (again, assuming the responses are legit).

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1...5Es2_&ref_url=

Lol. The biggest complaints among the Belgorod residents on social media: 1. Where did they get the helicopters? They told us UA lost all of their helicopters in the first six hours. 2. Why were those helicopters allowed to fly in and not shot?

[MITCHAY]

It took a while but glad to see Ukraine going on the offensive into Russia.

Those ****s invaded them so they are fair game as far as I'm concerned.

How you can live here safe and free in Australia and support Russia is beyond belief.

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

It took a while but glad to see Ukraine going on the offensive into Russia.

Those ****s invaded them so they are fair game as far as I'm concerned.

How you can live here safe and free in Australia and support Russia is beyond belief.

mate, youve been brainwashed!

[MITCHAY]

Ukraine denying they attacked the depot.

Originally Posted by HIPO

mate, youve been brainwashed!

I've been brainwashed to believe that Russia built up its forces on the border and invaded Ukraine. Yes mate, it's all fake news and a special operation. Old mate Lavrov said so

While I have no doubt a lot of BS is being spun, they invaded. That is fact.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Ukraine denying they attacked the depot.



I've been brainwashed to believe that Russia built up its forces on the border and invaded Ukraine. Yes mate, it's all fake news and a special operation. Old mate Lavrov said so

While I have no doubt a lot of BS is being spun, they invaded. That is fact.

yes they invaded. That is fact.
agree
no mater who did what when why or how
at the end of the day
they invaded. That is fact.
and it wasnt their only choice nor were they made to it was their choice to invade

oh no jimmy did something i dont like , so ill just have to go and thump brian
but they made me do it
couse if i didnt i couldnt go on showing my strength against brian in the future

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

President Zelensky has addressed a joint session of parliament and specifically requested Bushmasters and I think he had a jab we might as well send our M1 Abrams tanks as they of little use to us here.

Heard that the aircraft that can transport those bushmasters can only carry 4 at a time. That is going to be a lot of trips back and forth. The war may be over by then.

Have our coal made its way there yet?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Heard that the aircraft that can transport those bushmasters can only carry 4 at a time. That is going to be a lot of trips back and forth. The war may be over by then.

Have our coal made its way there yet?

I believe that the Netherlands has quite a few and that they will be asked to give theirs to Ukraine and Aus will replace them.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

I believe that the Netherlands has quite a few and that they will be asked them to give theirs to Ukraine and Aus will replace them.

You left out the part.. who pays for that?!?!.

We do.

And for what?.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

You left out the part.. who pays for that?!?!.

We do.

And for what?.

Russia never paid a price for the deaths of the Australians on Flight 17, this is just one way to get that settle that debt.

[Cav]

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation held a morning briefing on the situation in the Donbas

Arina Korf today at 11:01

The agency reported on the results of the CBO to date

The Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation held a briefing on Ukraine, which highlighted the main events by the morning of 2 April in the special military operation. This was told by the official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Major General Igor Konashenkov.

"High-precision air-launched missiles disabled military airfields in the cities of Poltava and Dnepropetrovsk," the Russian Defense Ministry said.

The ministry also noted that the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with a high-precision blow destroyed the fuel storage facilities of the Kremenchug oil refinery, from which the Supply of the Ukrainian group of troops in the central and eastern regions of the country was carried out.

What else the Ministry of Defense reported:

Russian air defense systems in the area of the city of Sumy and the village of Urozhayne shot down two Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopters;

During the night, the operational-tactical aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces and missile forces hit 67 military facilities of Ukraine, including 2 control points, 2 warehouses of rocket and artillery weapons and ammunition, 9 field artillery pieces and mortars and 54 areas of concentration of military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine;

In total, since the beginning of the special operation in Ukraine, 124 aircraft, 84 helicopters, 381 drones, 203 MLRS installations, 1882 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, 1764 units of special military vehicles and 786 field artillery pieces and mortars have been destroyed;

Units of the DPR Armed Forces have captured most of Novobakhmutovka and are fighting with the retreating units of the Ukrainian 25th Separate Airborne Brigade.

[Mulva]

I wouldn't trust the Russian's stats of Ukraine's losses Cav, just as I also wouldn't trust Ukraine's stats on Russia's losses (Ukraine say they have captured more tanks than they have lost).

Some of the footage speaks for itself though - won't post it here as it is very graphic, the VDV paratrooper bodies and body parts still lying in the open and decaying days and weeks after being killed. Minimal effort at taking care of their killed in action, and that is their elite VDV. Would suggest the Russian's don't have the most accurate idea of their own losses, let alone Ukraine's.

This was an interesting watch re the VDV and their information gathering methods seem credible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chwUmbOTjPU&t=2s

When this started I though the same as Putin - would be over within days. The first wave of troops literally had minimal rations but had their dress uniforms in their kit for the pending victory parade. Now their propaganda machine needs to try to spin their defeat in Kyiv, Ukraine retaking Ivankiv and cutting off thousands of Russia troops from their supply lines, and Russian civilians watching the supposedly destroyed Ukrainian airforce performing strikes in Russia unopposed.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Russia never paid a price for the deaths of the Australians on Flight 17, this is just one way to get that settle that debt.

Russia didn't shoot the plane down.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by zilo

Russia didn't shoot the plane down.

Australia holds Russia legally responsible.
https://www.government.nl/latest/new...ia-responsible

[xkxlxm]

https://mondoweiss.net/2022/04/stop-...s-of-the-past/

"Stop saying that Ukraine rubble reminds you of 'memories of the past' "

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Australia holds Russia legally responsible.
https://www.government.nl/latest/new...ia-responsible

The Wackos will say anything (they get their wacko theories from RT and QAnon), because they’re well “Wackos”.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by xkxlxm

https://mondoweiss.net/2022/04/stop-...s-of-the-past/

"Stop saying that Ukraine rubble reminds you of 'memories of the past' "

You made your point you hate America and their allies for what they stand for! Now can we get back to the Russia Ukraine war?