Gen F HSV GTS Review, 0-100 in 4.4s

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

I'm pleased for you, really I am.

Looking at my "whimper" comment that is perhaps a bit harsh and has come across the wrong way.

I dislike all things GM especially HSV but just feel Ford should have sent the Falcon out with a even bigger bang.

The GT335 has nothing to be ashamed of, but Falcon is going to die as the underling to the Commodore as much as it pains me to say it.

Sorry I took it a little out of context ...... just that many say Holden have won, well the simple fact is they won with something that most will not be able to afford new and possibly for many years.

I can understand why Ford have decided not to continue the power wars as they have had their race, won it for quite a few years now and am actually still a bit dumbfounded how Holden came up with the development funds for the GTS. The money or justification for a hypo GT is just not there.

As sad as it is, the FG GT335 will be the last of the GT's (IMO, the best of the modern day breed) and even though the XR8 will be replacing it and very possibly be the best bang for buck car ever produced in OZ, it won't be a GT.

I agree, an XR8 is not as great as a 400rwkw FH GT to finish with but, in this climate, at this stage in FoA's life, might be the best thing FORD has produced here ........ minus the GT badge (which is a huge disappointment in my eye) GT has Ford Heritage, here and overseas for 50 years. XR, to me, hasn't. BUT it might be to the younger brigade where the price bracket might attract.

[FTE-063]

love to see the vf gts line up with an e55 amg and a test for 0-60, 1/4 0-200
just for a laugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fQJFqo3Cw

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I don't know about that really. While the GTS is what it is ..... the FPV335 is ballistic and owning one has been the best driving experience I have had in any new car I have owned for the past 30 years. The fact that the price was where I could afford one .... well that is just a bonus because if it was GTS money, no way could I experience it.

You enjoying your new GTS????? Love to hear your opinion on it No use having a car that the majority can only dream about, while even the GT or GS may be expensive compared to std Falcon, the GTS is IMO another bracket where Euro's belong.

I call that going out in with an absolute bang and I absolutely thank FORD (FPV) for the experience and if that is it, so be it

You're exaggerating a bit in saying that the GTS is a car majority can only dream about and that it belongs in the bracket where euro's belong. Performance wise maybe but price no, its only about 10-15k more than FPV's flagship model the GT-P

[Chopped]

Just getting back to the 180-200kph times

Audi RS6
180 - 10.37
200 - 12.80
2.43 difference

BMW M5
180 - 11.14
200 - 13.22
2.08 difference

HSV GTS
180 - 12.07
200 - 14.96
2.89 difference

Jag XFR-S
180 - 11.86
200 - 14.65
2.79 difference

Merc E63S
180 - 11.14
200 - 13.37
2.23 difference

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

You're exaggerating a bit in saying that the GTS is a car majority can only dream about and that it belongs in the bracket where euro's belong. Performance wise maybe but price no, its only about 10-15k more than FPV's flagship model the GT-P

No, not really exaggerating .... maybe slight. The amount of HSV nutters out there vs how many will buy a new GTS will be minimal. It is the hero car and will sell a very small percentage between those who want it and those who can afford it. The same can of course be said for a GT .... but the gap is larger

The GT-P? The GT is such a similar car that the GT-P is near on extinct. I looked at it, drove it and could have bought one so close to GT price it was a matter of which I liked better. Yep, pulled up better on bigger brakes but decided I couldn't live with the seats as a daily. In Ford you have 3 Supercharged engines with such similar characteristics it almost comes down to looks and likes rather than price.

Personally I do not see the GT-P or the GT-E the hero car of Ford. I see the GT range (Encompassing GS/GT/GT-P/GT-E) as the hero group.

If you want the S/C Holden ..... what are the options? The reality, the gap is bigger than what the RRP says from Ford.

Yes, a little bit more exaggerating but it is like saying ..... Ford creams all the Chevs, Holdens, Chrysler, M's and AMG's etc with the GT40. Hero car of the Ford empire ........ but almost unobtainable for everyone.

[duaned]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

You're exaggerating a bit in saying that the GTS is a car majority can only dream about and that it belongs in the bracket where euro's belong. Performance wise maybe but price no, its only about 10-15k more than FPV's flagship model the GT-P

Exactly. $10-15K in my opinion is money well spent on the GTS over the FG GT providing of course that one can afford it.
Just look at some of what that extra coin provides. A better chassis than the FG. Better turn in and handling over the FG. More standard Power than the FG. Quieter than the FG. Magnetic Ride control, and far, far better interior and dozens of tech features over the FG to name a few.

But if $60k is your budget than the FG GT is hard to look past if your main goal is straight line acceleration. But everywhere else the VF is better. Fact!
I'm really looking forward to what the FH has to offer.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Yes, a little bit more exaggerating but it is like saying ..... Ford creams all the Chevs, Holdens, Chrysler, M's and AMG's etc with the GT40. Hero car of the Ford empire ........ but almost unobtainable for everyone.

Thats well beyond exaggeration

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

.....
Yes, a little bit more exaggerating but it is like saying ..... Ford creams all the Chevs, Holdens, Chrysler, M's and AMG's etc with the GT40. Hero car of the Ford empire ........ but almost unobtainable for everyone.

Not sure it would cream a Corvette ZR1 ??

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Not sure it would cream a Corvette ZR1 ??

I dont know ...... but I wont have the chance to personally find out

Originally Posted by duaned

Exactly. $10-15K in my opinion is money well spent on the GTS over the FG GT providing of course that one can afford it.
Just look at some of what that extra coin provides. A better chassis than the FG. Better turn in and handling over the FG. More standard Power than the FG. Quieter than the FG. Magnetic Ride control, and far, far better interior and dozens of tech features over the FG to name a few.

But if $60k is your budget than the FG GT is hard to look past if your main goal is straight line acceleration. But everywhere else the VF is better. Fact!
I'm really looking forward to what the FH has to offer.

So a GTS is only 75 to 80k drive away?????? I didn't realise so take back all I said! Even if it was ...... thats a GT and a new Fiesta for shopping trolley duties. It still is a bit of difference .....

Some people write the GT335 off as a car with crap handling, only good for straight line pace, vinyl floor and bench seats! A better chassis? I might not be as techy as many here but really, I have never said in any test drive .... "Oh that car had a good chassis" Seriously ........ yes they are 5 year old model, yes there are better handling cars out there but really ,,,,,, wish people would stop writing off the GT as a bloody go cart! Sure, the GTS is great and side by side does show up the GT in specs and other bits ...... but so it should too .... it is the new model, it does have a larger kw engine etc .... but it is also alot more expensive.

[BHDOGS]

Nah landau 15-30 thousand is nothing mate chump change totes worth the extra I mean think about the 3 track days u can do a year for that handling which all Holden lovers suddenly care about Now because hsv say they should now coz Of the new diff uleh

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I dont know ...... but I wont have the chance to personally find out

I see your point now

[XD ESP! XELR8]

Had a good look over a black 340 R8 the other day, looked mint from some angles and weird sorta on others..

One thing I will say is HSV has set them apart from the normal vf commodore..

Would I own one hmmm there growing on me..

[timetaker]

A standard R8 puts out about 240 rwkw The R8 with the HSV performance package puts out about 260+ rwkw.
The R8 with the performance package should be around 290 rwkw?
Nah! I think I'll give it a miss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIeibllatZg

[fgpsi]

^They're all crap except for the GTS

Wouldn't mind a VF Senator with the LSA in it

[XD ESP! XELR8]

Originally Posted by timetaker

A standard R8 puts out about 240 rwkw The R8 with the HSV performance package puts out about 260+ rwkw.
The R8 with the performance package should be around 290 rwkw?
Nah! I think I'll give it a miss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIeibllatZg

Sorry mate wasn't meant to go of topic..

It would be GTS or nothing for me..

Was just saying how nice the R8 looked, but on the other hand looked weird too..

[jimmyxr6t04]

I'm keen to see how the GTS goes in person... might take the GT down to the local holden dealership in a couple of months and claim i am looking to trade it in...

I have no intention of getting rid of my GT, but wouldn't mind a drive of the GTS to see how it compares in the real world, and not at the track. I'm tipping there won't be too much difference in the real world, day to day driving... If there is, i better tell the wife to freeze all our funds before i go in haha

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

I'm keen to see how the GTS goes in person... might take the GT down to the local holden dealership in a couple of months and claim i am looking to trade it in...

I have no intention of getting rid of my GT, but wouldn't mind a drive of the GTS to see how it compares in the real world, and not at the track. I'm tipping there won't be too much difference in the real world, day to day driving... If there is, i better tell the wife to freeze all our funds before i go in haha

^^ Sounds like a plan. I nominate you to do this. I went in and did the test drive thing of a SRT8 when they came out and it did my head in something awful....what's that old saying about playing with fire

Originally Posted by smoo

Although it was getting off topic, I was referring to where the Kiwi mag would (generally) run quicker times than Motor

Comes down also to how they're measuring the time. As you know N.Z. Autocar have state of the art Vbox timing equipment and are generally a bit more removed, (well hopefully by distance anyway ) from the possibility of manufacturer "influence" so I've always trusted their times.

Originally Posted by Cobra

Holy smokes that Audi is quick! What an an absolute jet! Imagine that engine in a 500kg lighter body, like an R8 for example. It'd be bye bye Nissan GTR/911 Turbo!

Sure is that's all wheel drive for ya. If Mercedes-benz in their "infinite wisdom" had of been decent enough to kit their RHD E63S with all wheel drive we could have had their car reeling off 0-100 k.p.h. in 3.6 seconds like the LHD Amercian version does....doesn't stop Mercedes-benz reaming us for mega bucks for the model with inferior traction and performance though...you be the judge if you think that's fair business practice or not.

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

No offence but I think your the one looking at it from a "sore loser" point of view.

This GTS certainly polarises opinion doesn't it !! It is what it is. By any rational and objective analysis its a better package than anything FPV have ever offerred...really if FPV had been capable of delivering a vehicle like that we would have been absolutly rapt. It costs a bit more than a GT-P but I think its fairly priced for the kit that's included.

I think comments about Holden being reckless with their investment in the VF have little validity.

Originally Posted by 40RDT

You're exaggerating a bit in saying that the GTS is a car majority can only dream about and that it belongs in the bracket where euro's belong. Performance wise maybe but price no, its only about 10-15k more than FPV's flagship model the GT-P

That's bang on the money in my opinion. Some are comfortable at $65K with a regular GT on special, others happy to pay circa $80K for a GT-P and others circa $100K for a VF GTS. References to the car that the majority can only dream about are better directed at the E63S, Audi RS6, Jaguar XFR-S and BMW M5 in my opinion.

[tweeked]

You're funny Rodge the way you say that the vbox is state of the art as if it is only used in NZ and it is undiscovered everywhere else. Apart from Billiecarts monthly I don't know of another major mag that doesn't use accurate gps based timing. The only mag that is a bit different is wheels with their passenger and half a tank. They did this to be consistent with the old days of the passenger holding the stopwatch and watching the speedo.

[duaned]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I dont know ...... but I wont have the chance to personally find out


Some people write the GT335 off as a car with crap handling, only good for straight line pace, vinyl floor and bench seats! A better chassis? I might not be as techy as many here but really, I have never said in any test drive .... "Oh that car had a good chassis" Seriously ........ yes they are 5 year old model, yes there are better handling cars out there but really ,,,,,, wish people would stop writing off the GT as a bloody go cart! Sure, the GTS is great and side by side does show up the GT in specs and other bits ...... but so it should too .... it is the new model, it does have a larger kw engine etc .... but it is also alot more expensive.

I think you're over-exaggerating again! But I don't recall anyone saying the FG has crap handling, vinyl floor etc. It has been widely said (by professional reviewers and the like) that the extra weight of the V8 in the FG has had a negative effect on the handling etc. of the FG and add to the fact the chassis is pushed to it's limits in it's current configuration.
But that doesn't mean it is crap, especially in my book.
All I can say is I thought my FG handled quite well, up until I purchased a VF.
It is much, much better in this regard and I hope Ford can work some magic on the FH.
Holden (over the years) have clearly invested in this area as they have ensured the V8 (and V6) motors are mounted as far back to the firewall as possible. And removed weight in the front of the car by placing the battery and fuse boxes etc.in the boot (Since VE?) to obtain a better weight balance. It all helps. After all how a can handles, turns etc. is more important to me than a sub 5 second 0-100kmh time. (But I am happy to settle with
5.5 seconds that it currently provides!)

[The Monty]

Id like to see how people come up with these $20-30 000 difference.
If you want to compare Ford and Holden, you would have to compare the GT R spec and the GTS. Comparing the GT to the GTS and calling it 20k cheaper is like a Holden person saying, well I can get an SS for 20k less than the GT and it does the same job blah blah.

Cheapest GTS on Carsales has 5000km on it. Its price at $89 990
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de.../?Cr=0&sdmvc=1

The cheapest brand new GTS is $96 720.
The highest is $105 990.

Most expensive GT - Rspec is $135 000
http://www.carsales.com.au/demo/deta.../?Cr=0&sdmvc=1

And it has 114km's on it.

Or what about one with 14 000km on it? $92734 EXCLUDING on road costs.
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de.../?Cr=1&sdmvc=1

You can also get one with 4000km on it, similar to the abovementioned GTS at $89 986.

So new, they are about the same price.
Second hand with 4-5000km on it, the GT R spec is $14 cheaper, lol. Big savings to be had there.

And not just the price, it has been proven that the GTS is faster in the wet. It has been proven that the GTS is faster in a straight line in the dry. Its also faster around the track, has a load more tech, and amazing mechanical capabilities, and when you spend the same sort of cash on it as a GT R-spec, its actually quicker still down the 1/4 mile.


I think some of you need to get your hand off it. I think I would know what I would prefer if I was after a car for these sorts of coin. The GTS would be in my garage in a heartbeat.

[timetaker]

So.........from the above figures,the "inferior" GT-Rspec will have a higher resale figure than the new VF GTS? That is strange.

[nstg8a]

Why would you compare the r spec price? You can't buy one anymore?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Rodge

This GTS certainly polarises opinion doesn't it !! It is what it is. By any rational and objective analysis its a better package than anything FPV have ever offerred...really if FPV had been capable of delivering a vehicle like that we would have been absolutly rapt. It costs a bit more than a GT-P but I think its fairly priced for the kit that's included.

The only people it polarizes are those who insist on looking at the FPV with rose-coloured glasses. As you say, by almost any objective measure, the FPV is beaten. The GTS is quicker in a straight line, its quicker on a track, its better equipped, its simply a way better package overall. Of course, it comes at a substantial premium.

Why would HSV price it so? Simple, they don't rate the FPV as its competition for this car. They're gunning for those whose bank balance allows them to aim for an M3/C63. They've priced the car above the psychological 6-figure barrier ... that speaks volumes about their confidence in their product.

Meanwhile, FPV are pricing like they're going out of business..... don't hate on HSV for having the balls to build what their customers wanted, ask FPV why they wouldn't do same for theirs. The 5.0 SC V8 is ample evidence they had the capability, yet no GTHO after all these years.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Why would you compare the r spec price? You can't buy one anymore?

Hero car vs hero car. It seems some people want to compare the Gt Rspec to the GTS when it comes to performane figures but when it comes to price people want to use the price of of a normal GT to the price of the GTS, doesn't make sense. To be fair you need to compare the HSV top dog (GTS) to the FPV top dog (Rspec/GTP) in all aspects.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Hero car vs hero car. It seems some people want to compare the Gt Rspec to the GTS when it comes to performane figures but when it comes to price people want to use the price of of a normal GT to the price of the GTS, doesn't make sense. To be fair you need to compare the HSV top dog (GTS) to the FPV top dog (Rspec/GTP) in all aspects.

I would thought to be fair you would only compare models that are actually available to buy new? Be it price performance, faults whatever?

[tweeked]

You can compare whatever you want to compare.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I would thought to be fair you would only compare models that are actually available to buy new? Be it price performance, faults whatever?

Which is why comparisons should be between the GTS and GTP. You can't technically buy a new RSpec anymore but people seem to compare them in terms of performance then when it's time to compare prices people seem to compare the GT and not the GTP which makes no sense imo

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by AU2GHIA

love to see the vf gts line up with an e55 amg and a test for 0-60, 1/4 0-200
just for a laugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fQJFqo3Cw

Porn!

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Sure is that's all wheel drive for ya. If Mercedes-benz in their "infinite wisdom" had of been decent enough to kit their RHD E63S with all wheel drive we could have had their car reeling off 0-100 k.p.h. in 3.6 seconds like the LHD Amercian version does....doesn't stop Mercedes-benz reaming us for mega bucks for the model with inferior traction and performance though...you be the judge if you think that's fair business practice or not.

It's funny you mentioned that as I could have sworn that I had read somewhere that the latest E63 AMG was to be AWD just prior to being released, only to find that every publication of the vehicle I had read afterwards stated that it was RWD. I began to question my recollection, and started to believe that I'd been confused with something else. Since I'm too young to have dementia, it's a relief to find out I'm not losing my mind! So that begs the question, why oh why have Mecedes-Benz/AMG shafted the LHD-challenged market?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

No offense but your looking at it almost from a sore looser point of view. Your picking out moments in history that suit your comments. Your vt GTS holds nothing to when our turbo falcons were actually considered the best performance sedans in the WORLD under 100k. And it was ALL Aussie. No American tax payer engine in there my friend.
And this GTS like some have recognized is not only a very niche car, selling very few at a large price.....it certainly isn't available to the masses.......ford has had far better performance cars for over ten years now in turbo six or sc 5.0 form that are cheap and available to the masses. Just look at the millions of examples of ford guys spending chump change and getting their factory car all of a sudden 400+rwkws!
Holden will be remembered by a few die hards, for the American powered GTS.......the masses will remember the blackmail,lieing and screwing of the public and their employees. The cheap Asian rebadged imports, far inferior models in every category, the massive high import content in its 'Australian' cars and it's blatant spending money left right and centre when their future was in limbo.
This awesome GTS is a blip on the radar in what's nothing more then another American blunder, but his time on our soil.
So yours and others comments may suggest Holden won this little battle with the awesome vf GTS, but in truth they've lost the war.

No offence taken, and that's your opinion which you're more than entitled to having. I know that Ford have had better performance cars over all compared to Holden since the BA F6 Typhoon was released, and that's only thanks to the turbo 6, prior to 2010 when the supercharged 5.0 litre was released.

I'm no "sore loser" like you stated, but you can't deny that Ford/Tickford/FPV had huge opportunities to strike while the iron was hot so to speak, by building a world class performance car to keep up with HSV going right back to the early 90's when the EB GT was released.

I won't clog up this thread by going OT with examples of how Ford could have suitably 'returned serve' to Holden/HSV, because to me they're pretty obvious, but to the powers that be/bean counters who saw it as an insurmountable added expense to go the extra mile, not only did they stifle the potential success of Tickford/FPV, but some of the decisions were actually a big loss for the Ford enthusiast/consumer.

All I'll say is that while Ford released, at various stages over the last two decades, a fantastic Australian designed and developed product - they certainly didn't harm the aftermarket by fitting factory kit that couldn't be upgraded from. VE Commodore onwards is a much more complete package of performance car when compared to the equivalent BF/FG of the time, and VF has taken that next step again where I feel that the FH Faclon will lose even more ground to.