Russia v Ukraine

[T3rminator]

"War is where young men, who don't know each other, who don't hate each other, are made to kill each other, by old men who know each other, who hate each other, but won't kill each other."

[Cav]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

"War is where young men, who don't know each other, who don't hate each other, are made to kill each other, by old men who know each other, who hate each other, but won't kill each other."

[FairmontGS]

Why second-hand British cars end up on Ukraine’s frontline

From Mykolaiv to Kyiv and Kharkiv, second-hand cars, pickup trucks and minivans bought in Britain and still bearing the familiar UK number plates are on the frontline of the war in Ukraine.

The incongruous sight is thanks to a fighters’ fund established by Serhiy Prytula, 40, a Ukrainian actor and comedian, who made his name with a Little Britain-style sketch show Faina Yukraina (Nice Ukraine) but now acts as an alternative quartermaster to the Ukrainian armed forces.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ines-frontline

[Citroënbender]

That’s probably a good end for them, as battle hacks. The UK’s love affair with road salt is remarkable in how it destroys cars from the bottom up.

[FairmontGS]

One for the Putin-lovers in the thread...

Ukrainian prosecutors find hundreds of bodies in towns near Kyiv

Ukrainian investigators find more than 400 bodies in towns near Kyiv
Reuters reports that Ukrainian prosecutors investigating possible war crimes by Russia have found 410 bodies in towns near Kyiv.

Prosecutor General Iryna Venedyktova said 140 of them had been examined via a televised appearance on Sunday.

Russia has denied allegations that its forces killed civilians in the town of Bucha near Kyiv.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...krainians-live

Rape as a weapon: huge scale of sexual violence endured in Ukraine emerges

Women and girls have recounted the abuse they have suffered at the hands of Russian soldiers

The world was horrified on Sunday by a picture taken by the photographer Mikhail Palinchak on a highway 20km outside the capital, Kyiv, in which the bodies of one man and three women were piled under a blanket. The women were naked and their bodies had been partially burned, the photographer said.

The harrowing image adds to a mounting body of evidence that summary executions, rape and torture have been used against civilians in areas under Russian control since the Kremlin launched the invasion of its neighbour on 24 February.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...war-in-ukraine

[Mulva]

First the Russians denied the atrocities, and said it was all staged for the west.

With irrefutable evidence mounting they have now shifted to saying they did it but were provoked into committing those atrocities. "We didn't do it" quickly shifted to "Yeah, we did it, but they made us do it".

Provoked by Ukrainians resisting Russia's invasion and occupation...Russia is like a domestic violence perpetrator that says to the victim "Look what you made me do".

[Citroënbender]

Or, as I often cite: “They hit me back first!”

I’m not yet convinced that VV’s goose is cooked, but he seems to be sailing ever closer to the plucking bench.

[Fordman1]

The wackos here (and yes, they are absolute loonies) will say it MSM fake news.

Like I said, those lunatics will say it’s a lie. But those loonies live in the world of QAnon and RT news .

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

One for the Putin-lovers in the thread...

Ukrainian prosecutors find hundreds of bodies in towns near Kyiv



https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...krainians-live

Rape as a weapon: huge scale of sexual violence endured in Ukraine emerges

Women and girls have recounted the abuse they have suffered at the hands of Russian soldiers



https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...war-in-ukraine

And those “Cowardly Savages” have run away from combat with Ukrainian troops in that area, and those “Russian heroes” loot houses and do what Russian armies are famous for.

But,

the loonies here will deny, deny, deny, and make up some absolute rubbish to argue it’s fake.

[HIPO]

Poor old Fordmans in for a big fall.... along with the rest of the sheep!

[Fordman1]

BTW loonies, you’re on ignore

[tichman]

Originally Posted by Mulva

First the Russians denied the atrocities, and said it was all staged for the west.

With irrefutable evidence mounting they have now shifted to saying they did it but were provoked into committing those atrocities. "We didn't do it" quickly shifted to "Yeah, we did it, but they made us do it".

Provoked by Ukrainians resisting Russia's invasion and occupation...Russia is like a domestic violence perpetrator that says to the victim "Look what you made me do".

More propaganda. Where is the actual evidence? Who's to say the "civilians" weren't holding AKs when they were shot, or had launched an anti tank missile at the Ruskies?

People get easily lead by emotive headlines and crap reporters/reporting and often have a bias at the get go.

You want lies? Try Eisenhower's flatout denial of Spy panes above the USSR, he kept that up for weeks till Gary Powers was rolled out for the media...
How about Saddams WMDs? Ole Bush and that puppet Blair ran with that line for years until it got to the point Blair had to admit they never existed and dopey Colon Powell telling outright lies at the UN security meetings...

I'm not pro Russia but am Pro equality in judgement, if people want to hold one person or group accountable for war crimes or anything else then at least hold EVERYONE who has done the same or similar to account or turn a blind eye to the latest round of scapegoats being found.

“We have heard that half a million [Iraqi] children have died. I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima,” asked Stahl, “And, you know, is the price worth it?”

“I think that is a very hard choice,” Albright answered, “but the price, we think, the price is worth it.”

That was Albright's (Aldim more like it) response when asked about the mass deaths of innocent civilian children from US bombings etc in Iraq.

If anyone can justify that yet call for war crime hearings etc to be set up then they really should just shuffle off back to the fairy land they live in.

[Mulva]

Don't think those that had their hands bound behind their backs were holding AKs, but I could be wrong on that.

Don't think the kids were blowing up tanks, but again I cannot be sure.

Every person and every nation responsible for war crimes should be held to account equally - no disputing that - so going to ignore the whataboutism as it does nothing to justify or excuse the actions of Russia in Ukraine (or allied forces in their conflicts).

One thing I've noticed is those that label others sheep or sheeple are themselves sheep that just blindly follow a different shepherd.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by HIPO

Poor old Fordmans in for a big fall.... along with the rest of the sheep!

It will be a massive crash and burn.

In their defense though, we've all been wrong before. We're all creatures of habits and most of them are bad habits.

But some of us don't continue to go to the same well of incorrect information.

[Mulva]

Worrying that you guys laugh at our sources and discredit the information we receive while simultaneously posting the mis-information of a nation that has literally closed down TV stations and newspapers and is actively arresting those that protest the "special military operation".

Like a girl was arrested in Russia for holding a sign that simply said "Peace". Isn't that supporting their troops - they are peace keepers after all, aren't they?

Or are the protesters being arrested also crisis actors too?

Happy for you to bookmark my posts and I'll admit when I am wrong - you'll even see I acknowledge that there is no doubt propaganda and mis-information being used by both sides. Will you guys be happy to admit that Russian ****s committed war crimes if it is irrefutably proven, or will you just say "Yeah but the US did bad **** in other countries too" like that somehow justifies it?

By the way - if it is proven Ukrainians were mistreating prisoners then that is a war crime too and those responsible should be held to account. What I do notice is the difference between the two nations when allegations of mistreatment are made.

This was the Ukrainian response:

An adviser to the Ukrainian president, Olexiy Arestovych, acknowledged that abuse of prisoners of war constitutes a war crime and said it will be punished. “I would like to once again remind all our military, civilian, and defense forces that the abuse of prisoners of war is a war crime that has no amnesty under military law and has no statute of limitations,” he posted on Telegram on the evening of March 27. “I remind everyone that we are a European army of a European country. We will treat the prisoners in accordance with the Geneva Convention, no matter what personal emotional motives you have.”

This was the Russian response to allegations made against them:

Wasn't us, we didn't do it...and if you can prove we did it, then it was their fault

[CoupeKing]

Massive war, Putin is retreating.

25+ million smart phones in Ukraine and hardly any raw footage.

[Mulva]

Incredible, isn't it. I really thought same as him - that it would be over within days.

And yet here we are - his forces in disarray and retreating after massive losses of men and equipment, his economy is destroyed for years if not decades to come.

We all thought he was some powerful master tactician with foresight, leader of a "super-power"...turns out he is an absolute womble and their military incredibly ineffective and incompetent (they did dig some nice trenches in the radioactive Red Forest.

Re the lack of raw footage - hard to film atrocities when you are sheltering in your basement, or when your phone has already been looted (have you seen the 3 hours of CTTV from the Belarusian post office of the Russians posting their loot back home). Of course there still is plenty of footage - not just aftermath, actual footage of civilians being slain. "There isn't 'much'..." - how much do you need?

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Worrying that you guys laugh at our sources and discredit the information we receive while simultaneously posting the mis-information of a nation that has literally closed down TV stations and newspapers and is actively arresting those that protest the "special military operation".

Like a girl was arrested in Russia for holding a sign that simply said "Peace". Isn't that supporting their troops - they are peace keepers after all, aren't they?

Or are the protesters being arrested also crisis actors too?

Happy for you to bookmark my posts and I'll admit when I am wrong - you'll even see I acknowledge that there is no doubt propaganda and mis-information being used by both sides. Will you guys be happy to admit that Russian ****s committed war crimes if it is irrefutably proven, or will you just say "Yeah but the US did bad **** in other countries too" like that somehow justifies it?

By the way - if it is proven Ukrainians were mistreating prisoners then that is a war crime too and those responsible should be held to account. What I do notice is the difference between the two nations when allegations of mistreatment are made.

This was the Ukrainian response:



This was the Russian response to allegations made against them:

I have been posting Russian stuff

I have two new posts today

Don't shoot the messenger

[Cav]

"Russian air defense shot down six drones of the Armed Forces of Ukraine": the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation held a morning briefing

Albert Corsa today at 10:43 am

The Ministry reported on the results of the military special operation in Ukraine

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation held a morning briefing. According to the ministry, the grouping of DPR troops seized the fortified area and liberated the village of Novobakhmutovka.

What else did the department say:

During the night, Russian aviation hit 14 military facilities of Ukraine, including 2 control points, 2 Buk-M1 installations near Krasnogorka and Verkhnetoretsky, 1 artillery battery, 2 weapons depots and 3 fuel depots, 6 strongholds and areas of concentration of military equipment;

At night, in the area of Lysychansk, as a result of an airstrike, the control point of the Ukrainian 24th separate mechanized brigade and nearby warehouses with ammunition and military equipment were destroyed;

As a result of the strike on the Balovne airfield in the suburbs of Mykolaiv, the destruction of three helicopters of Ukrainian troops was confirmed;

During the night, the operational and tactical aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 14 military facilities of Ukraine;

Russian air defense systems shot down six drones of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the air.

[Cav]

Arina Korf today at 01:03

Now Putin has shown his hand.

Russian invasion into Kiev and northern Ukraine regions were designed to divert Ukrainian forces north to protect Kiev. As I stated in the past Putin is mainly interested in the region north of Crimea to the dnieper River and the Donbas region.

This will also give him control of the Sea of Azov and a much need land corridor from Russia to Crimea.

The Russians will now bleed the Ukrainians dry.

The question is will the Russians go for Odessa and cut the Ukrainians off from the Black Sea?

We will soon find out.

Map of military operations in Ukraine for April 3




Current map of military operations for the past day

Today, the most discussed event at the front is fake video and a photo from Bucha with bodies lying on the streets. This episode is another prime example of information warfare.

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation said that Kiev's information about the massacres in the Ukrainian Bucha does not correspond to reality, and the footage is a production. Because of this, Russia requested a meeting of the UN Security Council for Monday in connection with the "blatant provocation of Ukrainian radicals in Bucha."

On the fronts.

On the northern front, probably, there are no more Russian forces left. According to the Reports of the Ukrainian side, Russian troops have been completely withdrawn from the Kiev region and the Severshchina to Belarus and Russia.

On the eastern front, the regrouping and transfer of the forces of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in the Slobozhansky and Donetsk-Luhansk directions continues. There is fighting in Marinka and Popasna. It was reported that most of Novobakhmutovka had been taken over. The offensive continues in the area of Ugledar, our troops have advanced a little further to the north. In Izyum there is silence, there is no offensive either in the direction of Barvenkovo or in the direction of Slavyansk. In Mariupol, Russian troops entered the territory of Azovstal from the south-east, along the coast. The fiercest fighting is now underway in the north-west of the Left Bank of Mariupol.

On the Southern Front today, there is no change.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Incredible, isn't it. I really thought same as him - that it would be over within days.

And yet here we are - his forces in disarray and retreating after massive losses of men and equipment, his economy is destroyed for years if not decades to come.

We all thought he was some powerful master tactician with foresight, leader of a "super-power"...turns out he is an absolute womble and their military incredibly ineffective and incompetent (they did dig some nice trenches in the radioactive Red Forest.

Re the lack of raw footage - hard to film atrocities when you are sheltering in your basement, or when your phone has already been looted (have you seen the 3 hours of CTTV from the Belarusian post office of the Russians posting their loot back home). Of course there still is plenty of footage - not just aftermath, actual footage of civilians being slain. "There isn't 'much'..." - how much do you need?

The “slime” posting pro Russian rubbish here should go live in Russia, then they could enjoy the good life.

Good on you comrades.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Cav

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation said that Kiev's information about the massacres in the Ukrainian Bucha does not correspond to reality, and the footage is a production. Because of this, Russia requested a meeting of the UN Security Council for Monday in connection with the "blatant provocation of Ukrainian radicals in Bucha."

Hmmmmm. Logic tells me, if one was to commit such obvious war crimes, they would probably try to cover it up, not leave it out on display for the world to see. Its very odd.

Would like to know if it has been ruled out that the victims were not ethnic Russians living in in the area at the time.

[T3rminator]

Just heard the latest Scott Ritter interview discussing the Bucha claims. Its on YT, but he was being interviewed by RT.

He presents a good logical analysis. Reckons that the bodies should be made available to UN war crime investigators, who can then conduct medical forensics. Apparently they will be able to tell things like time of death, cause of death, whether body has been tampered with etc. He thinks its all BS. Will be interesting to see if this what Russia will request for at the UN Security Council.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Cav

Russian invasion into Kiev and northern Ukraine regions were designed to divert Ukrainian forces north to protect Kiev. As I stated in the past Putin is mainly interested in the region north of Crimea to the dnieper River and the Donbas region.
.

If Russia had focused their invasion force purely on the small part of Donbas they don't already control they would have easily taken that territory and had their victory, without the massive loss of their troops and equipment they have suffered. It is already disputed territory, he likely would not have copped the crippling sanctions that his full blown invasion triggered.

Putin failed to achieve his original objectives, his military failed to deliver - he is now redefining what victory means so that he can try to save face. To believe otherwise would require the bulk of Ukraine's forces to have originally been in Donbas but then moved out to fight in other areas - that is not what happened.

But he will take that small remaining bit of Donbas and Putin apologists will hail it a smart victory. Meanwhile the Russian economy, military and reputation have been set back massively, and more countries on his doorstep are applying to join NATO.

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

BTW loonies, you’re on ignore

Well when your childish name calling doesnt work, i suppose covering your ears & humming is the next best thing!

BTW, has anyone noticed Zelinskys net worth these days? funny that!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Hmmmmm. Logic tells me, if one was to commit such obvious war crimes, they would probably try to cover it up, not leave it out on display for the world to see. Its very odd.

Would like to know if it has been ruled out that the victims were not ethnic Russians living in in the area at the time.

No military leaders or governments can control their troops if individuals or groups choose to commit crimes, looks like the Russian troops were routed out quickly before they could hide any evidence of atrocities.
I would dare say looking at any theatre of conflict there will be war crimes from both sides and the truth will eventually come out in future investigations when this war is over.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Itsme

No military leaders or governments can control their troops if individuals or groups choose to commit crimes, looks like the Russian troops were routed out quickly before they could hide any evidence of atrocities.

Nup, Chechnyans… figures

The mayor of Bucha, Anatoliy Fedoruk, showed a Reuters team two corpses with white cloth tied around their arms which he said was what residents were forced to wear by fighters from Chechnya, a region in southern Russia that has deployed troops to Ukraine to support Russian forces.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idCAKCN2LV09U

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Cav

Today, the most discussed event at the front is fake video and a photo from Bucha with bodies lying on the streets. This episode is another prime example of information warfare.

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation said that Kiev's information about the massacres in the Ukrainian Bucha does not correspond to reality, and the footage is a production. Because of this, Russia requested a meeting of the UN Security Council for Monday in connection with the "blatant provocation of Ukrainian radicals in Bucha."

If we are to believe NYT, satellite images show those bodies filmed early April have been there since mid March - that is, those people were made "bodies" during Russia's occupation.

https://twitter.com/cliffordlevy/sta...5Es1_&ref_url=

Again, if we are to believe the NYT.

When Russia first invaded, this guy (former US General) was one on the few that said Ukraine would survive and repel the initial attack, which to me sounded ridiculous at the time as like most I thought Russia had an effective and capable military.

He has now shared his thoughts on the next phase - the supposed pivot to capturing Donbas, which sounds like he does not believe...and that Russia will fail with this next attempt too.

https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/sta...5Es1_&ref_url=

He was right about the first phase - will see how this prediction holds up

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Mulva

If we are to believe NYT, satellite images show those bodies filmed early April have been there since mid March - that is, those people were made "bodies" during Russia's occupation.

https://twitter.com/cliffordlevy/sta...5Es1_&ref_url=

Again, if we are to believe the NYT.

When Russia first invaded, this guy (former US General) was one on the few that said Ukraine would survive and repel the initial attack, which to me sounded ridiculous at the time as like most I thought Russia had an effective and capable military.

He has now shared his thoughts on the next phase - the supposed pivot to capturing Donbas, which sounds like he does not believe...and that Russia will fail with this next attempt too.

https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/sta...5Es1_&ref_url=

He was right about the first phase - will see how this prediction holds up

Good post Mulva, I have loonies on ignore, and don’t even need to consider replying. Lunatics won’t even take your good reply “on board” anyway.

Good on you.

[T3rminator]

Very scary where we this is heading. Very nazi like.

Having lived there for a number of years, I'd be very disappointed if there was no opposition to this policy, either in gov or by the public. Disappointed but not surprised given the coverage.

‘Not an issue for Wimbledon’: All England club set to ban Medvedev
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tenn...05-p5aaub.html

Wimbledon is ready to ban world No.2 Daniil Medvedev from this year’s tournament over fears a Russian victory could boost Vladimir Putin’s regime.

The All England Club has been advised its independent status means it could ban Russian and Belarusian players failing to denounce Putin and not face any legal repercussions.

.................

Huddleston has already suggested that players such as Medvedev or world No.5 Aryna Sabalenka, of Belarus, should have to sign an anti-Putin form to participate in major events in the UK. Huddleston said last week: “We wish to get assurance in a written declaration that they are not receiving money from Putin, Russia or Belarus [and] that they will not be making supportive comments of Putin, Russia or Belarus.”