Holden closure

[mr smith]

^^ agreed, my take was all R&D including design was going as well.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

R you sure they're staying....thought I read that was going to.....

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...218-2zk46.html

“We’re here to stay. Holden will continue to have a significant presence in Australia from 2018, comprising a national sales company, a national parts distribution centre, and a global design studio all supported by a limited number of local engineers,” the statement reads.

[zilo]

Good to know they will still be in a position to sell their foreign products to us "over paid" and " too expensive to employ" locals.

Such blatant bigotry never ceases to amaze.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by zilo

Good to know they will still be in a position to sell their foreign products to us "over paid" and " too expensive to employ" locals.

Such blatant bigotry never ceases to amaze.

Yeah! How dare they! How dare any car manufacturer sell cars to us! Lets go back to the horse and cart days seeing as how all these evil car companies actually want to turn a profit! How dare they not be a charity! [/sarcasm]

[zilo]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Yeah! How dare they! How dare any car manufacturer sell cars to us! Lets go back to the horse and cart days seeing as how all these evil car companies actually want to turn a profit! How dare they not be a charity! [/sarcasm]

How dare they sack their loyal employees claiming they earn too much then suck up to them to buy their overpriced dinosaur pushrod crap?

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by zilo

How dare they sack their loyal employees claiming they earn too much then suck up to them to buy their overpriced dinosaur pushrod crap?

People get sacked everyday, where's the candlelit vigils for them?

And how exactly are they sucking up to them, explain that frankly insane statement. If you care this much about the loss of jobs, etc. where was the outrage when Saab shut down, when Pontiac shut down, when countless other manufacturers shut down? Its just a dey tuk ur jewbs thing, not that noble.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by zilo

How dare they sack their loyal employees claiming they earn too much then suck up to them to buy their overpriced dinosaur pushrod crap?

Dinosaur pushrod?
Now I have seen it all. Nothing wrong with a well designed pushrod motor.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by zilo

How dare they sack their loyal employees

Don't confuse loyalty with greed. If they stick it out, a huge redundancy package is headed their way.

[CyberWasp]

Can I ask a dumb question.
If the unions and wages ect have got out of hand cant Holden sack the entire workforce and have people reapply the next day for the same positions with new conditions?
If it ruffles too many feathers and no one applies they are leaving anyway. What have they got to lose?
Isn't the option of employment better than no employment even if wages revert back to award type rates / conditions?

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Can I ask a dumb question.
If the unions and wages ect have got out of hand cant Holden sack the entire workforce and have people reapply the next day for the same positions with new conditions?
If it ruffles too many feathers and no one applies they are leaving anyway. What have they got to lose?
Isn't the option of employment better than no employment even if wages revert back to award type rates / conditions?

Wages are always the white collar excuse when in fact it was as plain to see as the proverbial...dull.....slow footed yanks who refused to listen in time to what our engineers and marketing force told them, and the crippling high $A was the last straw.
There's no better smoke screen than those nasty unions.

[DRU842]

Originally Posted by stevz

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...218-2zk46.html

This article would seem to clarify Holden's 'engineering' plans post production closure:

"Holden has confirmed it will only maintain a design studio at its Port Melbourne headquarters.

A spokeswoman indicated that the Lang Lang proving ground may be sold before the company winds down its manufacturing operations in 2017, as any future engineering and development work required for the locally-built Commodore and Cruze will be completed by at least 2016.

“There will naturally be some scaling back [of Holden’s engineering operations], but any of those details have yet to be decided,” said Holden’s Kate Lonsdale.

Arch rival Ford also has an advanced proving ground operation at the You Yangs, between Melbourne and Geelong.

The facility will remain operational to assist with the development of future vehicles for the blue oval’s global portfolio after Ford closes its Broadmeadows and Geelongmanufacturing factories in 2016."

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...219-2zmf7.html

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Isn't the option of employment better than no employment even if wages revert back to award type rates / conditions?

They could work for nothing and Holden still would not make money. Australia has some of the dearest electricity/workers insurance premiums/company tax/land rates/environmental obligations of anywhere in the world. When Holden and Ford were asked how much it would cost to stay in Australia they both declined to comment as there is a multitude of reasons why they are both leaving.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

. Australia has some of the dearest electricity/workers insurance premiums/company tax/land rates/environmental obligations of anywhere in the world. .

can you prove that?

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Can I ask a dumb question.
If the unions and wages ect have got out of hand cant Holden sack the entire workforce and have people reapply the next day for the same positions with new conditions?
If it ruffles too many feathers and no one applies they are leaving anyway. What have they got to lose?
Isn't the option of employment better than no employment even if wages revert back to award type rates / conditions?

You're not allowed to sack people for no reason.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

You're not allowed to sack people for no reason.

its the socialist way comrade

dumb, fat, stupid and lazy people

are your equal

[Gobes32]

I do not have one single source for all of those facts, but it was quoted by the media that it cost 2500 in labor to build a car and they were losing more than that on each vehicle. As for electricity, we used to be the second cheapest, we are now the fourth dearest. All these changes have occurred in the last ten years.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[mik]

Originally Posted by zilo

can you prove that?

One clue is that we on track for every single company to Ever build cars here has gone either broke , required massive handouts or left because they can't make money here, I don't think you really need to smacked on the side on the head with a ream of data facts to work out the obvious.

[ryeman]

^^^^and the decisions to manufacture here go back before the computer age when skilled trades existed. De-skilling has been the result for much of the work and you can plug that in to any cheap labour source.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Wages are always the white collar excuse when in fact it was as plain to see as the proverbial...dull.....slow footed yanks who refused to listen in time to what our engineers and marketing force told them, and the crippling high $A was the last straw.
There's no better smoke screen than those nasty unions.

What did our engineers and marketing forces tell the yanks?

As far as I know, in Holden's case, the yanks removed a shed load of funding for the Commodore many years ago (pre VE iirc), Holden put their hands out to the AU govt. for funding to prop local manufacture of cars selling into a dwindling market segment plus, a sprawling brand/model choice for the punter which was topped off by a strong AUD.

The AU govt. said no, we aren't propping your O/S parent up. I don't believe Holden have directly blamed the unions, just simply said the cost of manufacturer in Aus. is to high for them to compete.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I do not have one single source for all of those facts, but it was quoted by the media that it cost 2500 in labor to build a car and they were losing more than that on each vehicle.

Well you can hardly call that "facts" if you can't produce the source

Originally Posted by Gobes32

As for electricity, we used to be the second cheapest, we are now the fourth dearest. All these changes have occurred in the last ten years.

I ask again...where's the proof, just cause you keep repeating the same claim doesn't make it proof.

And...make sure you produce proof of wholesale electricity pricing ( as industrial users get, not mums and dads tariffs okay?)


After that we can start on your other claims about land taxes, environmental blah blah etc? as per post 492...

[zilo]

Originally Posted by mik

One clue is that we on track for every single company to Ever build cars here has gone either broke , required massive handouts or left because they can't make money here, I don't think you really need to smacked on the side on the head with a ream of data facts to work out the obvious.

Yeah you do need the facts when a gunner asserts all sort of vague rhetoric.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by zilo

Well you can hardly call that "facts" if you can't produce the source



I ask again...where's the proof, just cause you keep repeating the same claim doesn't make it proof.

And...make sure you produce proof of wholesale electricity pricing ( as industrial users get, not mums and dads tariffs okay?)


After that we can start on your other claims about land taxes, environmental blah blah etc? as per post 492...

Sorry bud, it's Christmas and I just don't have it in me to get into an internet war with someone who thinks I am wrong. Some of my facts came from internal work emails that I cannot share here, but, let's agree to disagree.

[ryeman]

Detroit's prior is their domestic market based on cheap 'gas' and as a result their products have been irrelevant to the rest of the world.
Holden would have had to be in a coma to not see what the rest of the world was seeing .....,ie an emphasis on efficient packaging and fuel economy incl diesel tech and hybrids.
Large 3 box RWD is the same formula as the '48/215 Holden and the only design breakout was the Terri which came a decade too late and lumbered by a petrol only version til too late and with no serious export plans either.
Americans have no idea, or seemingly, interest in what is going on in the world at large unless they invaded it.
Where would Ford be without their German arm and its influence?.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Kieron

The AU govt. said no, we aren't propping your O/S parent up. I don't believe Holden have directly blamed the unions, just simply said the cost of manufacturer in Aus. is to high for them to compete.

And thats why Oz (and somewhere else) got cut - to save GM's behind in the States, theyre broke unfortunately. A German mate tells me proudly how their car companies buy other manufacturers up - i tell him its because their government is a partner & look how the German auto industry is going - i didnt dare tell him about the situation here in Oz...


Cheers, Maka

[johnydep]

The Holden closure announcement now appears to have been a long-planned move that re-sets of the car maker’s global operations. http://indaily.com.au/business/2013/...wo-holden-men/

Mark Reuss, GM Holden’s former Australian boss, is having a much better time of it than his successor Mike Devereux.

While Devereux is overseeing the closure of Holden’s Victorian and South Australian operations, Reuss is announcing new investments of nearly $1.3 billion in five manufacturing sites in its USA factories in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana.

The investments combined will create or retain about 1,000 jobs.

Reuss has also just been named “Auto Executive of the Year” and been promoted to the role of GM’s head of global product development, describing it as a “dream job”.

He spent two years in Australia running the Holden operation and was replaced for a short period by Alan Batey who handed over the reins in 2010 to Devereux.

During Reuss’s time here, he had the job of reassuring the nation that Holden’s future was safe, despite the parent 2009 bankruptcy in the US, from which it has now emerged.

When Reuss left Australia, the then Industry Minister Kim Carr said: “The Australian government regrets Mr Reuss’ departure, and I will personally miss his friendship and wise counsel, but Mr Batey’s appointment will guarantee continuity and ensure that the innovation partnership between Holden and the Commonwealth stays strong.

“Both the company and the government remain squarely focused on creating investment and employment opportunities for Australia.”

When Mike Devereux replaced Batey he was was the fourth boss of Holden in as many years – and he looks to be the last or second last.

The Holden closure announcement now appears to have been a long-planned move that re-sets of the car maker’s global operations.

The new US investments will support production of a new V6 engine, new 10-speed transmission and an existing 6-speed transmission.

They will also fund assembly plant upgrades, including a new paint shop and logistics optimisation center.

Since 2009, GM has announced investments of about $10.1 billion in its U.S. operations – $2.8 billion in 2013 alone – creating or retaining more than 26,500 jobs.

Announcing the investments GM said it was “committed to a strong American manufacturing base and creating jobs in dozens of communities throughout the country”.

“(The) plant upgrades continue the momentum of a resurgent auto industry,” Reuss said.

US Auto Workers union boss Joe Ashton said: “Today’s announcement is a win for American workers.”

For Reuss, the world is his oyster; for Devereux – at least for the moment – and the Holden workers of Australia it’s a vastly different tale.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by zilo

Yeah you do need the facts when a gunner asserts all sort of vague rhetoric.

http://theenergycollective.com/linds...ound-world-kwh

September 2013 article.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I do not have one single source for all of those facts, but it was quoted by the media that it cost 2500 in labor to build a car and they were losing more than that on each vehicle. As for electricity, we to be the second cheapest, we are now the fourth dearest.used All these changes have occurred in the last ten years.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Actually I think you will find its closer to seven years ago not ten that we had the worlds seconds cheapest power, but yes its shows how quickly everything can get out of control once a socialist government gets in control.

The thing that annoys me about all these lefties is that they seam to forget/ignore the fact that it was capitalism (which discussed them) that has given them (the western world) its current living standard not socialism, hell socialism only ever brings debt and poorer living standards, witness Greece, hell witness our own deficit and it only took them six years, they must be so proud

[ryeman]

I think it's vastly more complex than emissions trading schemes as you will see after it's annulled and much more to do with 'gold plating' the transmission infrastructure (wires and poles) in Vic at least, and to avoiding the bushfire related legal claims that resulted from the privatised companies failure to do maintenance, allowing the system to deteriorate to dangerous levels.
Other states I assume took note of the legal implications, bringing forward their uprating .....not cheap.
The so called carbon tax was relatively insignificant in comparison as will become apparent, even after the haranguing by Tony, when it no longer applies.

[johnydep]

[Maka]

Originally Posted by dddd

The thing that annoys me about all these lefties is that they seam to forget/ignore the fact that it was capitalism (which discussed them) that has given them (the western world) its current living standard not socialism, hell socialism only ever brings debt and poorer living standards, witness Greece, hell witness our own deficit and it only took them six years, they must be so proud

^^ What a load of, lol! Talk about hypocritical (forget & ignore) - oh, tell me, the GFC was caused by what? Was there a GFC?

cheers, Maka