Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile - Page 17

jpd80 · 14-09-2021, 05:04 PM

It’s interesting that 80% of Australia’s population lives in costal areas, that’s 20 million people.
The future normally doesn’t pan out exactly the way some would have us believe…

kmav23 · 14-09-2021, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It’s much easier carrying jerry cans of fuel in remote areas, than to carry a generator or solar panels to recharge from.

Easier to generate electricity via solar panels on your own land rather than move fuel from overseas and transport to you remote location.

Vesper Martini · 15-09-2021, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmav23

Easier to generate electricity via solar panels on your own land rather than move fuel from overseas and transport to you remote location.

From the user perspective it is not.
where do you get these ideas? not everything is learnt from the internet

**kypez** · 15-09-2021, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmav23

Easier to generate electricity via solar panels on your own land rather than move fuel from overseas and transport to you remote location.

When I used to go off-road, there were no stations or anything such for well over the Range of my Everest. That's why some Toyotas have the dual tanks. With an EV, you can only travel where you know you can fill up again. You can't just strap a couple of Jerry cans to the car for extra range.

Like I said, there are use cases. They don't have to be everything for everyone.

**Polyal** · 15-09-2021, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

When I used to go off-road, there were no stations or anything such for well over the Range of my Everest. That's why some Toyotas have the dual tanks. With an EV, you can only travel where you know you can fill up again. You can't just strap a couple of Jerry cans to the car for extra range.

Like I said, there are use cases. They don't have to be everything for everyone.

Exactly, we also didnt have road systems straight away when the car went mainstream.

Give it time and it will evolve, unless the jab you still have choice with cars for a bit longer.

wodahs · 15-09-2021, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Perhaps it'll make you feel better if I'd said that the usual method of going to 'town' or visit neighbours is their plane.

out of all the farmers I know with air craft none used them for all the runs in to town and its still just the farm owner or manager that have an air craft for that the rest are usually light choppers for stock herding
so can't just pop in to town for that half ton of parts or the large amount of supplies and ever movement at flight height to other areas needs a submitters and approver flight plan and maybe approved use of runways pending the airport used and that's all at cost usually
easier to jump in the vehicle and do your running around town

on a side note knew a farmer in the 80's that regular go in trouble with the law for flying his light aircraft in to town landing on the main road and taxi'ing to the pub to drink

wodahs · 15-09-2021, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Sure. They can stick with Diesel's. No one is forcing them to change if their usecase is such. Don't get caught up on the notion that they need to be all things for everyone. The outliers can still use their ICE for their farms. .

curious
i thought this thread was bout the end of the ice motor for vehicles
but hey they can stick with it
so heck I can stick with it too
so it's now a thread about improvements on the EV front by XX DATE THEN RIGHT ?

**kypez** · 15-09-2021, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodahs

curious

i thought this thread was bout the end of the ice motor for vehicles

but hey they can stick with it

so heck I can stick with it too

so it's now a thread about improvements on the EV front by XX DATE THEN RIGHT ?

No. This thread was about what ICE to look forward to before their ultimate demise.

I'm sure that horses or camels were still useful well after the automobile and ICE came to market.

If the EV can't do the job needed, you will have to still keep using ICE or have to change the way you do the job. So if you can't do the latter, then its not the persons fault if car companies/govts/private charging networks haven't met their usecase. Its as simple and complex as that.

The date set by countries will be for the 90%+ of the urban population and some rural (not remote) communities. The rest will have exceptions till the technology is available. People don't buy horses anymore (to thrash out that analogy) for transport (typically) cause the ICE is where it needs to be. Some remote areas are easier by horse back than by ICE though even to this day.

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Bossxr8 · 15-09-2021, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmav23

Easier to generate electricity via solar panels on your own land rather than move fuel from overseas and transport to you remote location.

For the consumer it sure as hell isn't. The people buying the fuel don't need to move the fuel from overseas.

I was talking about someone travelling to remote areas. Are they going to tow a huge solar array to charge an EV?

Vesper Martini · 15-09-2021, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

For the consumer it sure as hell isn't. The people buying the fuel don't need to move the fuel from overseas.

I was talking about someone travelling to remote areas. Are they going to tow a huge solar array to charge an EV?

What's funnier is somebody actually liked his Post

**kypez** · 16-09-2021, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Model S wouldn't handle too many farm driveways I've seen but I guess the hobbyist would have that concreted at the same time they upgraded to 3 phase to charge the dam thing

The Air Suspension on them allow you to raise the car a fair bit. Sure, not SUV/4x4 height but its quite good. The AWD on them give you pretty good grip as well. I've been surprised by their capabilities. Think its 170mm clearance at its highest setting; decent for a Sedan. I've taken mine off road and its done really well. Many times I thought I'd have no chance, the car has surprised me for a Sedan. I've only been to hobby farms though. There is a video of a guy doing the Oodnadatta track in a Tesla. They're not bad.

And you don't need 3 phase to charge them. Single phase will charge your car just fine. You just need more Amps available and it takes a little longer. 24amps 3 phase or 32 amps Single phase (these are the max on my car; newer ones can do 48amps single phase). We had Single phase for the first couple of years of ownership till we moved to a new property that was already wired for 3 phase.

burnz · 16-09-2021, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Besides that that farmers get cheap diesel too.
Model S wouldn't handle too many farm driveways I've seen but I guess the hobbyist would have that concreted at the same time they upgraded to 3 phase to charge the dam thing

thats another thing old houses were 3 phase,
new dwellings are single phase..

five 7 · 26-09-2021, 10:50 AM

Looks so cheap and convenient, can't wait till were all trapped into one.
https://youtu.be/_FgxzYVaItQ

jpd80 · 26-09-2021, 11:05 AM

People who want electric vehicles now know what they are in for with charging issues,
most early adopters will be daily commuters that rely on home based charging.
Those that have a lot of away from home base travel will probably do better with hybrid
or PHEVs, I think that will be the case until BEV batteries get better and charging networks
become more widely accepted and trusted, we’re not gonna see that in just two or three years.

AMB · 26-09-2021, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

People who want electric vehicles now know what they are in for with charging issues,
most early adopters will be daily commuters that rely on home based charging.
Those that have a lot of away from home base travel will probably do better with hybrid
or PHEVs, I think that will be the case until BEV batteries get better and charging networks
become more widely accepted and trusted, we’re not gonna see that in just two or three years.

Good video five 7. Daily commute is the main application, stop start traffic, low mileage. The only way its going to improve is if they can double the range from what it is now, so either a revolutionary new technology or just double the battery size. Its never mentioned that its bad for battery life, to be demanding near full power from a battery that is running low. The rule of thumb is to always keep a battery above about 50% charge. I suppose they could have the software progressively reduce power output once it gets below 50% charge, maybe they already do.

.:4:. · 26-09-2021, 12:30 PM

The one 'issue' i raised about ev's to the building manager of a high rise office block a few years back was people scabbing power. So the way it went was there was a bloke with a model s who every morning would park his car in his allocated spot, run out a 20m extention lead and slow charge his car for his 8 hours of work off a cleaners outlet. Another tennant complained to the building manager as the lead was a trip hazzard. So fair call on that. The bloke in question asked the bm if a closer outlet coupd be installed. When i was asked, my answer was yes, however the building is paying to charge this blokes car 5 days a week.
So the moment money came into it the bm was straight up asking for the solution knowing fully well you cannot delete the cleaners outlets as the cleaners need them. Solution was simple, replace them all with keyed outlets, have them all keyed alike and get a stack of keys cut for the cleaners, security and keep a few for the blokes i worked with.
So dedicated fast chargers you have to pay for, but i reckon there are a lot of people out there who will plug in anywhere non thinkingly slow charging off any 10a outlet running up other peoples electricity bills without consent.

roKWiz · 26-09-2021, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMB

. The rule of thumb is to always keep a battery above about 50% charge. I suppose they could have the software progressively reduce power output once it gets below 50% charge, maybe they already do.

Part of the downfall of lead acid battery banks not newer LiPol systems.

**kypez** · 26-09-2021, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by five 7

Looks so cheap and convenient, can't wait till were all trapped into one.
https://youtu.be/_FgxzYVaItQ

I've done Sydney to Brissy and Sydney to Melbourne. Done trips to Dubbo and into many regional areas. Never have run out ever.

Did the great ocean road just before COVID from Sydney. Seriously, you have to be an absolute idiot to run out with all the chargers these days.

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Franco Cozzo · 26-09-2021, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

I've done Sydney to Brissy and Sydney to Melbourne. Done trips to Dubbo and into many regional areas. Never have run out ever.

Did the great ocean road just before COVID from Sydney. Seriously, you have to be an absolute idiot to run out with all the chargers these days.

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With the Sydney to Melbourne, where did you stop along the way and how long for?

roKWiz · 26-09-2021, 05:14 PM

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I'm sure someone in the market for electric would do their own due dilligence about re charging them and range they need.
People who want to buy them will and those who don't want one wouldn't.

Franco Cozzo · 26-09-2021, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I'm sure someone in the market for electric would do their own due dilligence about re charging them and range they need.
People who want to buy them will and those who don't want one wouldn't.

I'm sold on this:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...19749698/?Cr=1

100KW/320NM EV

Uses tiny onboard motor as a generator to charge 1.5KW lithium ion battery that runs the electric motor - doesn't connect to the wheels of the car, its like a diesel electric train, except unleaded and a car

3L/100km

System works as follows

Of course, not available in Australia like anything half decent

**kypez** · 26-09-2021, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

With the Sydney to Melbourne, where did you stop along the way and how long for?

There are chargers every 2 hours or so apart on the drive. On the way down, I skip the Goulburn charger and stop at the Gundagai charger (right on the highway at the Olivers). Then Woodonga and into Melbourne. The car calculates the stops. Typically, 20 minutes each stop. Max 30 minutes (depending on temperature). Or you can stop at the Euroa one as well and make your stops only 15 minutes each. Lower you run the battery, the faster it will charge. Better off doing a couple quick chargers than trying to do a big charger when fast charging. 4 stops of 12 minutes or 2 stops of 25 minutes. Your pick.

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roKWiz · 26-09-2021, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

There are chargers every 2 hours or so apart on the drive. On the way down, I skip the Goulburn charger and stop at the Gundagai charger (right on the highway at the Olivers). Then Woodonga and into Melbourne. The car calculates the stops. Typically, 20 minutes each stop. Max 30 minutes (depending on temperature). Or you can stop at the Euroa one as well and make your stops only 15 minutes each. Lower you run the battery, the faster it will charge. Better off doing a couple quick chargers than trying to do a big charger when fast charging. 4 stops of 12 minutes or 2 stops of 25 minutes. Your pick.

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There's also some chargers set up in motels along the way.

roKWiz · 26-09-2021, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm sold on this:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...19749698/?Cr=1

100KW/320NM EV

Uses tiny onboard motor as a generator to charge 1.5KW lithium ion battery that runs the electric motor - doesn't connect to the wheels of the car, its like a diesel electric train, except unleaded and a car

3L/100km

System works as follows

Of course, not available in Australia like anything half decent

EV tech has been around for a long time,newer tech will improve the systems over time, there are a few boatbuilder along the Murray who dabble in EB's

Renew magazine has been doing home conversion stories for years now. I would do one just as an experiment in one of the small trucks and use locally.

Franco Cozzo · 26-09-2021, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

There are chargers every 2 hours or so apart on the drive. On the way down, I skip the Goulburn charger and stop at the Gundagai charger (right on the highway at the Olivers). Then Woodonga and into Melbourne. The car calculates the stops. Typically, 20 minutes each stop. Max 30 minutes (depending on temperature). Or you can stop at the Euroa one as well and make your stops only 15 minutes each. Lower you run the battery, the faster it will charge. Better off doing a couple quick chargers than trying to do a big charger when fast charging. 4 stops of 12 minutes or 2 stops of 25 minutes. Your pick.

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This took 6 hours 52 minutes, with the only stop being my driveway.

Average speed, 106km/h, avoid highways where possible when in VIC

But from your example, the average person doing long distances via car probably wants to stop and also keep their license, it is indeed possible to do capital to capital via EV.

roKWiz · 26-09-2021, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

This took 6 hours 52 minutes, with the only stop being my driveway.

image

Average speed, 106km/h, avoid highways where possible when in VIC

But from your example, the average person doing long distances via car probably wants to stop and also keep their license, it is indeed possible to do capital to capital via EV.

running outlaw, Franco.

**kypez** · 26-09-2021, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

This took 6 hours 52 minutes, with the only stop being my driveway.

image

Average speed, 106km/h, avoid highways where possible when in VIC

I've done Uluru to Sydney in 30 hours door to door. Wasn't the smartest thing in hindsight but I was young and wanted to see if we could do it. That 30 hours included 2 hours for sleep around Port Augusta between 4 and 6 am.

It would be silly to suggest the EV will be quicker than ICE for distances over 400 kms - 500 kms. I can go 500 easily with the model 3 Long Range. Beyond that, charging stops need to be factored in.

These days, I'm not in such a hurry and I've found that by the time you have bite to eat and use the loo, the car is ready to roll anyway so the time penalty doesn't really affect the journey much. But my travel is for leisure.

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Franco Cozzo · 26-09-2021, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

running outlaw, Franco.

I think next challenge is do Melbourne to Brisbane with only stopping for fuel - Google reckons a bit over 18 hours and just under 1800km.

If I don't flog the crap out of the car I can generally go 900km to a tank safely, would put me at a fuel stop in Sydney.

roKWiz · 26-09-2021, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I think next challenge is do Melbourne to Brisbane with only stopping for fuel - Google reckons a bit over 18 hours.

Mate did it in a Sandman many years ago, not many Superslabs then, we reckon he averaged 120km/h. Not to shabby.

**PG2** · 26-09-2021, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

I've done Uluru to Sydney in 30 hours door to door. Wasn't the smartest thing in hindsight but I was young and wanted to see if we could do it. That 30 hours included 2 hours for sleep around Port Augusta between 4 and 6 am.

It would be silly to suggest the EV will be quicker than ICE for distances over 400 kms - 500 kms. I can go 500 easily with the model 3 Long Range. Beyond that, charging stops need to be factored in.

These days, I'm not in such a hurry and I've found that by the time you have bite to eat and use the loo, the car is ready to roll anyway so the time penalty doesn't really affect the journey much. But my travel is for leisure.

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Just an observation...

If you are getting 500k to a 'tank' of electricity would it affect your travel time that badly?

Most of us older humans over 40 (don't worry Franco, you will get there one day) would only do about 500k a day these days anyway and would stay in a comfy motel for the night.

Wouldn't you just charge it overnight?