The Thailand Special Thread - New Developments/News

[Franco Cozzo]

I think even the povvo spec tray back special is $33K DA these days for the 1.9

Couple years ago that bought the 3L for the same coin - shrinkflation the dogs

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Rastas

Just a quick one on your Dumping accusation here , in Sept BYD sold 420000 cars - only 8% were sold outside of China...... so kinda hard to go along with the Paid Off Media narrative of Dumping on this one.

The volume of 8% of capacity in itself is immaterial to the practice of dumping. Especially for a Chinese based company that is getting state support or direction. The name of the game is to create a small wedge into a market, and then make that wedge wider over time.

From Investopedia

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dumping.asp

Dumping occurs when a country or company exports a product at a price that is lower in the foreign importing market than the price in the exporter's domestic market. The biggest advantage of dumping is the ability to flood a market with product prices that are often considered unfair.
...

Companies can be driven to engaging in dumping for a number of reasons. Primarily, it allows them to gain a foothold in new markets abroad. If done for an extended period of time, dumping can eventually drive out competitors, allowing a company to establish an monopoly on a good or service.

CCP has had a plan for EV domination for quite awhile.

In 2008, One of the earliest plans targeting the sector was the “Major science and technology special project for electric vehicles”, as part of the national “863” Plan, launched by MOST, and establishing the development layout of China's new energy vehicle industry.

In 2012, a sector specific "Twelfth Five-Year Plan" for electric vehicle science and technology development further established China's transition strategy to focus on the development of electric vehicles, and for the first time emphasized the promotion of the construction of charging facilities.

By 2015, the ‘Made in China 2025’ plan, the development of the NEV industry was formally established as a national strategy, and the NEV sector entered into rapid development.

Whereas in Australia, we cannot figure out what to do tomorrow, and next year seems so far away.

https://www.esgtoday.com/eu-rolls-ou...investigation/

The European Commission announced today the imposition of duties on imports of battery electric vehicles (BEVs) from China, effective July 5, after concluding that European BEV manufacturers face a threat from unfair subsidization provided to the Chinese BEV value chain...

The new tariffs follow a similar action in the U.S., with the Biden administration announcing in May that is would raise the tariff rate on EVs from China to 100% from the prior 25% rate, and on lithium-ion EV batteries and on battery parts from 7.5%% to 25%. According to a White House statement, the tariffs were aimed at countering China’s “unfair trade practices,” including forced technology transfers, theft of intellectual property, and use of overcapacity to flood markets with cheap products.

Just as an example of where this can all end up ... in the last pandemic, China threatened Australia with cuts to the supply of essential chemicals to make paracetamol.

https://www.politico.eu/article/euro...mports-health/

[Franco Cozzo]

All this can only happen because of a hole in the market, at the moment everyone is getting greedy with their Thailand Special pricing, huge price increases across the board in the last 5 years,

Now we've got a competitor come in $20,000 less than the competition, and everyone (manufacturers) is crying

PAPPA GOVERNMENT! PROTECT ME AND MY SCAM ON AUSTRALIAN CONSUMERS!

China just does it under their market pricing, compete or **** off - Cya Mitsubishi (they were the ones complaining)

Its no different to the US subsidising its farmers, South Korea having 300% tarrifs on our potatoes, Thailand introducing taxes on engines over 3L in capacity to kill the Territory export overnight in their market, US 'chicken tax'.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

All this can only happen because of a hole in the market, at the moment everyone is getting greedy with their Thailand Special pricing, huge price increases across the board in the last 5 years,

Now we've got a competitor come in $20,000 less than the competition, and everyone (manufacturers) is crying

PAPPA GOVERNMENT! PROTECT ME AND MY SCAM ON AUSTRALIAN CONSUMERS!

China just does it under their market pricing, compete or **** off.

It's hard to blame the manufacturer when the consumer is willing to pay overs.

No one is being forced to pay those prices.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

It's hard to blame the manufacturer when the consumer is willing to pay overs.

No one is being forced to pay those prices.

Sure, then don't complain when someone comes in under your market price.

Goes both ways, except all I see here is it goes one way, and if someone else comes in they start lobbying the government to protect their pricing structures.

I'm all for the free market, which removes tax incentives and trade protections, let em all come in, let the market sort it out.

If the existing market leaders stack up on their own two feet, they'll survive.

They don't seem overly confident though, hence lobbying the government.

What the manufacturers are doing is causing inflation, which you pay for through interest rate increases when the government tries to correct it.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Yep the T3 used to just rip the LS a new one , I was more impressed with the little 302 it used to get bagged big time because it couldn't complete torque wise ....but your talking a cast iron block ,cast heads V Chevy,s latest high tech all alloy version of a 350 ....Ford did a pretty good job making honey out of goat shit

During those AU years, Mercedes also had a 5.0-litre V8 that produced a near identical 225 kW / 302 hp. That engine was considerably more modern, was all-alloy construction, had SOHC heads with dual spark plugs and 3 valves per cylinder. It also had a similar large bore, short stroke design to the Windsor. I've driven one these engines and it was butter smooth and sounded pretty good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M113_engine

So, when you compare that to the 5.0 Windsor, I think what Tickford did to get 220 kW out of that old engine was impressive. Obviously though, the Windsor couldn't match that butter smooth running, and it got breathless above 5,000 rpm.

Having said that, I'd say they were made very differently. The MB was a production engine with high consistency from build to build. The Windsor, while technically a production engine, each was stripped and rebuilt with port-matched heads and intake manifolds, all done by hand. Some ran hard, some were doggish. There were also slight running differences between the early 220's with alloy heads (T1 and T2 T-Series) and the later cast iron heads (very late T2 and all XR8's). I remember at the time it was noted the cast-iron head engines sounded tougher.

Still, an interested point in Falcon history.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Sure, then don't complain when someone comes in under your market price.

Goes both ways, except all I see here is it goes one way, and if someone else comes in they start lobbying the government to protect their pricing structures.

I'm all for the free market, which removes tax incentives and trade protections, let em all come in, let the market sort it out.

If the existing market leaders stack up on their own two feet, they'll survive.

They don't seem overly confident though, hence lobbying the government.

What the manufacturers are doing is causing inflation, which you pay for through interest rate increases when the government tries to correct it.

They're just doing their job though. Should they just roll over?

Don't hate the player.

Also 'contributing' to inflation might be more accurate than 'causing' but still a long bow.

I'm not defending the prices. While I like the vehicles I do think the prices are ridiculous however I think those paying the prices are just as crazy, or their circumstances are such that it's not a concern.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

They're just doing their job though. Should they just roll over?

Don't hate the player.

Also 'contributing' to inflation might be more accurate than 'causing' but still a long bow.

I'm not defending the prices. While I like the vehicles I do think the prices are ridiculous however I think those paying the prices are just as crazy, or their circumstances are such that it's not a concern.

Its a fine line between playing the game and trying to lobby the government to prevent competition, which is exactly what they're attempting under the guise of 'dumping',

If you want to call it 'dumping' you can level this at just about any business with the resources to drive out competition by running at a loss for X amount of time to kill off competitors.

Both BAPCOR and GPC Asia Pacific do exactly this,

Same with Safeway/Coles,

But for some reason we're only hearing about it when BYD (allegedly) does it to Ford/Toyota/Mitsubishi/Isuzu?

Demand-pull inflation

Demand-pull inflation arises when the total demand for goods and services (i.e. ‘aggregate demand’) increases to exceed the supply of goods and services (i.e. ‘aggregate supply’) that can be sustainably produced. The excess demand puts upward pressure on prices across a broad range of goods and services and ultimately leads to an increase in inflation – that is, it ‘pulls’ inflation higher.

https://www.rba.gov.au/education/res...inflation.html

Yes, causes inflation.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

During those AU years, Mercedes also had a 5.0-litre V8 that produced a near identical 225 kW / 302 hp. That engine was considerably more modern, was all-alloy construction, had SOHC heads with dual spark plugs and 3 valves per cylinder. It also had a similar large bore, short stroke design to the Windsor. I've driven one these engines and it was butter smooth and sounded pretty good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merced...nz_M113_engine

So, when you compare that to the 5.0 Windsor, I think what Tickford did to get 220 kW out of that old engine was impressive. Obviously though, the Windsor couldn't match that butter smooth running, and it got breathless above 5,000 rpm.

Having said that, I'd say they were ma

de very differently. The MB was a production engine with high consistency from build to build. The Windsor, while technically a production engine, each was stripped and rebuilt with port-matched heads and intake manifolds, all done by hand. Some ran hard, some were doggish. There were also slight running differences between the early 220's with alloy heads (T1 and T2 T-Series) and the later cast iron heads (very late T2 and all XR8's). I remember at the time it was noted the cast-iron head engines sounded tougher.



Still, an interested point in Falcon history.

It was an interesting time . My reference to T3,s was to Franco,s post , wasn't really bringing the T series 5.0l into it ,my earlier post was meant about XR8 GT40p equipped 220,s
The thing I find amazing about the little Windsor in comparison to that Merc mill is that the Windsor had very little change to the block since the early 60,s

[Franco Cozzo]

Was somewhat curious about the single cab 1.9L DMax:

https://www.constructionsales.com.au...review-145706/

Gets a decent review for a workhorse, 1400kg payload as well is pretty serious.

The D-Max SX is no rocket, but with a manual box and liberal amounts of right-foot input, it gets up and going as good as any work ute needs to - even loaded with around 400kg.

Sounds like I was doing the review

[Citroënbender]

It “moves” with 400kg out of a likely 1200kg limit (with the tray weight considered)?

[BENT_8]

Going to test drive a Pajero Sport today, base model with 2.5k bonus fuel card works out to same price as MUX over 12 months.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

It “moves” with 400kg out of a likely 1200kg limit (with the tray weight considered)?

Well, I guess the wheels turn

Hi-rider spec sucks though makes it awkward to load/unload because the tray is at an uncomfortable height, admittedly I'm not tall though

That's peak workhorse, maybe 3L spec because I'm just a little bit fancy,

The povvo pack is ~$15K cheaper than single cab Ranger tray back?

[smoo]

Im sceptical on some of these reviews because all the new age motoring journos/influencers like to beat it black and blue over any Chinese product with an attractive price tag.
But it looks like it could be a game changer for the segment.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Was somewhat curious about the single cab 1.9L DMax:

https://www.constructionsales.com.au...review-145706/

Gets a decent review for a workhorse, 1400kg payload as well is pretty serious.



Sounds like I was doing the review

Interesting it mentions harsh ride possibly due to lighter engine.
Thats exactly what I experienced on our concrete northern connector, felt like the front end was fluttering over the undulations, never felt that in a vehicle on that road before.
When I got back I asked if the 1.9l had the same suspension tune and was told yes, so I said that explains the flutter, not enough weight on the front springs rate.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Interesting it mentions harsh ride possibly due to lighter engine.
Thats exactly what I experienced on our concrete northern connector, felt like the front end was fluttering over the undulations, never felt that in a vehicle on that road before.
When I got back I asked if the 1.9l had the same suspension tune and was told yes, so I said that explains the flutter, not enough weight on the front springs rate.

Curious about the 1.9L vs 3L (4JJ3)

The latter has had significant modifications to improve NVH,

Tasked to refine the beloved 3-litre turbo-diesel further, Isuzu engineers have finessed new levels of power and torque from the famed engine, all while retaining Isuzu’s trademark reliability and real world fuel efficiency. The 4JJ3-TCX is a derivative of the 4JJ1-TC, evolving from that proven platform to now produce 140kW at 3,600rpm and 450Nm at 1,600rpm through to 2,600rpm. That’s a 10kW and 20Nm increase over the preceding engine outputs respectively. The strength of the engine comes courtesy of the wider and stronger torque band, with the 450Nm peak torque figure now available across a flat 1,000rpm stretch. That’s more than five times the rev-band of its predecessor.

More importantly, midrange torque has also been improved, with a hearty 400Nm on tap from 1,400rpm through to 3,250rpm. The result is a dramatic boost in both drivability and performance, particularly when towing, loaded up or off-road. Impressively, 300Nm is now produced from just 1,000rpm—testament to how efficient the 4JJ3-TCX’s almost nonchalant ability to get the job done.

https://www.isuzuute.com.au/discover...smooth-torquer

How's these figures compare with 2.0 Biturbo job in the Ranger?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

Im sceptical on some of these reviews because all the new age motoring journos/influencers like to beat it black and blue over any Chinese product with an attractive price tag.
But it looks like it could be a game changer for the segment.

You've got Raptor level power at a $40,000 cheaper price point

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Going to test drive a Pajero Sport today, base model with 2.5k bonus fuel card works out to same price as MUX over 12 months.

It's much better offroad.
Best bit it has 4H so you can drive around in 4wd all the time on any surface.

Throttle is laggy, so just needs a controller.
Engine is bullet-proof and the transmission is a Toyota box.
No stupid lane keeping.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You've got Raptor level power at a $40,000 cheaper price point

And compare it to what Thai special is at the same price point. Base model Ranger Hilux. Triton, Navara etc.
Looks like it’s better appointed, faster, maybe rides and handles better than them with independent rear. Might be a no brainer unless someone really needs the towing capacity.

[Citroënbender]

Noting the ute has a fixed canopy; it’s a station wagon in effect.

I will never understand the tolerance of un-ergonomic work vehicles, when every other risk on site has to be identified and mitigated to the level of dictating whether it’s safer to scrunch or fold with the paper supplied for site toilets.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by smoo

Im sceptical on some of these reviews because all the new age motoring journos/influencers like to beat it black and blue over any Chinese product with an attractive price tag. But it looks like it could be a game changer for the segment.

Can somebody take that guy off his caffeine high. He's just too hard to listen to in that OTT voice and frankly, a paid promotion is hardly going to be balanced.

[Citroënbender]

That reminds me of Donkey in Shrek.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by russellw

Can somebody take that guy off his caffeine high. He's just too hard to listen to in that OTT voice and frankly, a paid promotion is hardly going to be balanced.

That is the state of current motoring journalism where influencers with a go pro have infiltrated the profession and don’t even bother to go into technical detail.
Also, doesn’t list any negatives and declares it best off road after driving it down a dirt track a 2wd sedan could.
That said, looks to be a better proposition than anything else in the price point.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

It's much better offroad.
Best bit it has 4H so you can drive around in 4wd all the time on any surface.

Throttle is laggy, so just needs a controller.
Engine is bullet-proof and the transmission is a Toyota box.
No stupid lane keeping.

Sure is, Wife loved it, problem is, she loves the Outlander too and knows it'll pull and launch/retrieve the ski in AWD, so now its a toss up between the 2 Mitsi's as the MUX is off the menu.
Just not sure I can swollow $50k for an Outlander in the spec she's talkin'.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by smoo

That is the state of current motoring journalism where influencers with a go pro have infiltrated the profession and don’t even bother to go into technical detail.
Also, doesn’t list any negatives and declares it best off road after driving it down a dirt track a 2wd sedan could.
That said, looks to be a better proposition than anything else in the price point.

so was the triton for decades previously.
Never liked sharks and will be a while before I'd touch let alone ride one haha
Don't care how much bang for buck it is, same applied to triton last 20+yrs.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

That is the state of current motoring journalism where influencers with a go pro have infiltrated the profession and don’t even bother to go into technical detail.
Also, doesn’t list any negatives and declares it best off road after driving it down a dirt track a 2wd sedan could.
That said, looks to be a better proposition than anything else in the price point.

I think its 'journalism' in general, it hasn't been any good in the last 15-20 years, its them becoming the story and putting their own slant on things, rather than telling the story itself.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sure is, Wife loved it, problem is, she loves the Outlander too and knows it'll pull and launch/retrieve the ski in AWD, so now its a toss up between the 2 Mitsi's as the MUX is off the menu.
Just not sure I can swollow $50k for an Outlander in the spec she's talkin'.

That will learn ya

Never look at the flasher model that you can't afford lol

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sure is, Wife loved it, problem is, she loves the Outlander too and knows it'll pull and launch/retrieve the ski in AWD, so now its a toss up between the 2 Mitsi's as the MUX is off the menu.
Just not sure I can swollow $50k for an Outlander in the spec she's talkin'.

You'll get a higher spec Outlander for the same money, but will be stuck with a CVT....

Cant go wrong with Pajero Sport for your budget. My sister in law has had one (GLS) since 2016. Got a few hundred thousand KM on it and still going strong. Pretty sure even base Paj Sport gets the super select 4x4 system as well which is brilliant.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sure is, Wife loved it, problem is, she loves the Outlander too and knows it'll pull and launch/retrieve the ski in AWD, so now its a toss up between the 2 Mitsi's as the MUX is off the menu.
Just not sure I can swollow $50k for an Outlander in the spec she's talkin'.

One thing I learnt when researching the Outlander is they don't achieve anywhere near the economy they advertise, if that helps

[smoo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

so was the triton for decades previously.
Never liked sharks and will be a while before I'd touch let alone ride one haha
Don't care how much bang for buck it is, same applied to triton last 20+yrs.

Apart from a cheaper sticker price, the Triton offered nothing else that make it a compelling buy against the alternatives.
What decent advancement has the segment seen in 20 years. A few V6 diesels. Navara with coil springs. A couple of models that offer rear discs. Maybe rear diff lock and 4 wheel traction control.

This thing has taken the next step of introducing new tech to a segment that has stagnated for the last ten years (except eye watering RRP).

Time well tell if it’s a sales success. I can’t see why it won’t be, juding by the amount of cheap Chinese shit already on the road. I can see people overlooking the made in China stigma if it’s as well appointed as Wildtrack/Raptor and goes harder than them.
Save $30k on a Ranger, use the rest to go to Bali and finish off the full sleeve tatts.