July Vfacts. Ford 3rd again - Page 2

fiestaz · 05-08-2021, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

$42,990 is hardly unaffordable for a new car.

Maybe to some…

Syndrome · 05-08-2021, 12:37 PM

Australian market has close to 1 million new vehicles sold every year. With a population of 25 million that shows a lot of people have the means to purchase a new vehicle.

Anyway we are digressing. What I am commenting upon is the seismic change occurring in the Australian new vehicle market. And it is not the EVs causing this change. Like the Japanese in the 1970s and the South Koreans in the 1990s, the Chinese have finally arrived and it will change the local market.

Poetic Justice · 05-08-2021, 12:44 PM

A lot of other manufacturers are trying to move away from the 'retail discounted cars' philosophy and moving to a more profitable per vehicle system.

Mazda did it first.
Toyota have been doing it slowly.
Hyundai has done it starting with the 2016 i30 (PD)
Ford have done it

**Polyal** · 05-08-2021, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

A lot of other manufacturers are trying to move away from the 'retail discounted cars' philosophy and moving to a more profitable per vehicle system.

Mazda did it first.
Toyota have been doing it slowly.
Hyundai has done it starting with the 2016 i30 (PD)
Ford have done it

Its interesting, because if you dont have it 100% spot on you are left high and dry with expensive cars no one wants to buy.

At least with a cheapy you keep some traffic/revenue and potentially people upgrading when they come in?

Poetic Justice · 05-08-2021, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its interesting, because if you dont have it 100% spot on you are left high and dry with expensive cars no one wants to buy.

At least with a cheapy you keep some traffic/revenue and potentially people upgrading when they come in?

Possibly but Hyundai's numbers have continued to grow despite this.. I mean, it's probably got a fair bit to do with their product improving immensely but they have gotten away with some pretty serious price increases over the past 4 years.

**Polyal** · 05-08-2021, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Possibly but Hyundai's numbers have continued to grow despite this.. I mean, it's probably got a fair bit to do with their product improving immensely but they have gotten away with some pretty serious price increases over the past 4 years.

Yeap suck them in, add a little more and bump margin. Sounds like the Japanese and what the Chinese will do one day, simple business model I guess.

Bossxr8 · 05-08-2021, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Why shameful? who are you to judge

90% of your home and office electronics and parts are now made in china and a lot of industrial hardware is too.
Chinese goods of 2020s ae not the same as the throw away rubbish of 1990. Their cars are rapidly catching up.

In the 60s japanese car were shameful junk.. Now, they make some of the best in the world. Maybe not the hypercar fastest, but t.he best to own and drive daily family commute

In the 1980s sth korean cars were a joke now hyundai and especially kia are making some very good cars (Carnival, stinger) and their suburban city cars and suvs are a very good buy too, unless your a sneering badge snob - hey its your money
Now thee chinese are rapidly catching up, they have changed from making ip stealing cut price copies of european and jjapanese car that would fall apart to making reasonable affordable cars good enough for commuter suburban get around starter car or 2nd family car

If you're cool with sending business to a communist regime that hates us, bullies us, and is actively trying to screw us, then yeah, go for it.

I on the other hand have some nationalistic pride.

The Japanese made good and became our friends. We should never forget they atrocities they committed though.

**kypez** · 05-08-2021, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If you're cool with sending business to a communist regime that hates us, bullies us, and is actively trying to screw us, then yeah, go for it.

I on the other hand have some nationalistic pride.

So will you pay the difference or provide some kind of financial Aid to those who just can't make up the difference? There is no incentives not to buy Chinese. And people put their family unit ahead of a patriotic narrative especially when they won't get much support if things go pear shaped.

I remember going in to buy a fridge that was one of the last ones made in Australia. The sales guy tried to tell me not to buy it cause it was overpriced being Australian and that the Korean ones (Chinese weren't all that big at the time) were better and cheaper. I had the luxury to pay the extra money for the Aussie made fridge. I still wouldn't begrudge someone who couldn't afford it. Now, if they can afford it and are being tight, thats different but how can we know the motivations of others.

Think you need to get off your soapbox. You do the "right" thing. Don't judge others. What next? UnAustralian to use foreign fuels vs EV's using Aussie made fuels?

On topic, does anyone know when Ford will recover their supply issues?

jpd80 · 05-08-2021, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If you're cool with sending business to a communist regime that hates us, bullies us, and is actively trying to screw us, then yeah, go for it.

LOL, they’ve realised that they need to keep buying coal and iron ore, BHP shafting them big time.
Making hay while covid riddled South America is out of the competition….

Bossxr8 · 05-08-2021, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

So will you pay the difference or provide some kind of financial Aid to those who just can't make up the difference? There is no incentives not to buy Chinese. And people put their family unit ahead of a patriotic narrative especially when they won't get much support if things go pear shaped.

I remember going in to buy a fridge that was one of the last ones made in Australia. The sales guy tried to tell me not to buy it cause it was overpriced being Australian and that the Korean ones (Chinese weren't all that big at the time) were better and cheaper. I had the luxury to pay the extra money for the Aussie made fridge. I still wouldn't begrudge someone who couldn't afford it. Now, if they can afford it and are being tight, thats different but how can we know the motivations of others.

Think you need to get off your soapbox. You do the "right" thing. Don't judge others. What next? UnAustralian to use foreign fuels vs EV's using Aussie made fuels?

On topic, does anyone know when Ford will recover their supply issues?

What a dumb thing to post. There are so many alternative vehicles built in non-human rights abusing countries that don’t hate us. Wtf.

**kypez** · 05-08-2021, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What a dumb thing to post. There are so many alternative vehicles built in non-human rights abusing countries that don’t hate us. Wtf.

Didn't the FGX come with a Chinese made Gearbox? Guess anyone buying a FGX falls into your bucket as well. Whats your position on people working for a company that gets parts/supplies from China? I'll wait...

**Polyal** · 05-08-2021, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Didn't the FGX come with a Chinese made Gearbox? Guess anyone buying a FGX falls into your bucket as well. Whats your position on people working for a company that gets parts/supplies from China? I'll wait...

I think it’s clear who here understands business and the bigger picture and those who are still hurting about the falcons demise.

Blame govco, the people are just trying to survive the game.

**Polyal** · 05-08-2021, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What a dumb thing to post. There are so many alternative vehicles built in non-human rights abusing countries that don’t hate us. Wtf.

Like Australia or any other nation? You need to unfollow Pauline.

Franco Cozzo · 05-08-2021, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If you're cool with sending business to a communist regime that hates us, bullies us, and is actively trying to screw us, then yeah, go for it.

I on the other hand have some nationalistic pride.

The Japanese made good and became our friends. We should never forget they atrocities they committed though.

To be fair while they were a pack of bastards who committed all sorts of atrocities, our big brother also used nuclear weapons on
their civilian populations - twice

The whole Chinese car thing is an interesting conundrum, if I was after a new ute, I'd heavily consider the LDV T60 because it's cheap and everything in that class sucks anyway.

prydey · 05-08-2021, 07:16 PM

The patriotism thing. How does that narrative really stack up if someone came to your house and scrutinised your possessions??

Easy on a forum to take the high road.

Bossxr8 · 05-08-2021, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Didn't the FGX come with a Chinese made Gearbox? Guess anyone buying a FGX falls into your bucket as well. Whats your position on people working for a company that gets parts/supplies from China? I'll wait...

Bit hard to avoid that when every manufacturer sources parts from there. Buyers have the choice to avoid communist chinese cars though. You wouldn’t care if tesla didn’t manufacture there now.

**kypez** · 05-08-2021, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Bit hard to avoid that when every manufacturer sources parts from there. Buyers have the choice to avoid communist chinese cars though. You wouldn’t care if tesla didn’t manufacture there now.

What is a car but the sum of its parts.

So do FGX owners fall into your bucket or is there a grey area now? And if you work(ed) for a company that sources from communistic China, making you part of your own problem, where does that leave people?

Funny you bring up Tesla that isn't JV... And communist China doesn't profit from them (partly why they keep having a go at Tesla), however, the ZF (6R80) was a product of a JV.

I've enjoyed a position to be able to spend extra and support Australian made. Doesn't make someone who doesn't have that opportunity or resources UnAustralian in my eyes. What is UnAustralian is not giving people a Fair Go and taking a moment to consider why people are buying that car. If Australia made a car at that price point, I'm sure people would be happy to spend that money here.

Anyway, I think I've made my point.

On Topic, it would be great if Ford had a product in their lineup that could meet that demand. A cool 3000 units for the taking. But they wouldn't do it.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

**Fordman1** · 05-08-2021, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

To be fair while they were a pack of bastards who committed all sorts of atrocities, our big brother also used nuclear weapons on
their civilian populations - twice

The whole Chinese car thing is an interesting conundrum, if I was after a new ute, I'd heavily consider the LDV T60 because it's cheap and everything in that class sucks anyway.

No the LDV is rubbish and every other Ute in that class is better, but you have an issue with Thai built Utes anyway.

The current Ranger (before the new one) is 2 generations better 👍

Bossxr8 · 05-08-2021, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

What is a car but the sum of its parts.

So do FGX owners fall into your bucket or is there a grey area now? And if you work(ed) for a company that sources from communistic China, making you part of your own problem, where does that leave people?

Funny you bring up Tesla that isn't JV... And communist China doesn't profit from them (partly why they keep having a go at Tesla), however, the ZF (6R80) was a product of a JV.

I've enjoyed a position to be able to spend extra and support Australian made. Doesn't make someone who doesn't have that opportunity or resources UnAustralian in my eyes.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Aussie designed, engineered and built, with a large aussie content of parts is a whole nother planet to a 100% ccp joint venture company, built by 100% chinese people (for slave wages).

**kypez** · 05-08-2021, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Aussie designed, engineered and built, with a large aussie content of parts is a whole nother planet to a 100% ccp joint venture company, built by 100% chinese people (for slave wages).

Eh? The ZF isn't Aussie designed. The gearbox is 100% JV built 100% by chinese people (for slave wages).

The MG Sales/Service people are Australian and the brand is providing jobs for Aussies. Whats that worth to you?

Ben73 · 05-08-2021, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Ive noted it before but the majority of people are in financial stress or close too...these people buying the Chinese cars, it would be interesting to know what they are coming from.

I don't think people buying any new car are in financial stress. Well anyone with a brain wouldn't buy a new car if they're broke.

I know someone who bought an LDV. He earns about $140,000 a year and just thought it was good value for money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If you're cool with sending business to a communist regime that hates us, bullies us, and is actively trying to screw us, then yeah, go for it.

Do you think Taiwan is ok to buy from? Technically it's China, but also not really. I've found some electronics list they are made in Taiwan. I guess they're trying to distance themselves from the Made In China logo people look down on.

**kypez** · 05-08-2021, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

I don't think people buying any new car are in financial stress. Well anyone with a brain wouldn't buy a new car if they're broke.

I know someone who bought an LDV. He earns about $140,000 a year and just thought it was good value for money.

Don't think you need to be broke to be under financial stress... example, you could have a low income and have a car that is starting to cost more in repairs than its worth. Easier to get a loan on really low interest rates and get into a brand new car with warranty to better manage costs.

au2000 · 05-08-2021, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If you're cool with sending business to a communist regime that hates us, bullies us, and is actively trying to screw us, then yeah, go for it. .

So you live in victoria too?

Adamz Ghia · 05-08-2021, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What a dumb thing to post. There are so many alternative vehicles built in non-human rights abusing countries that don’t hate us. Wtf.

While I don’t particularly like China, I have $40k to spend on a brand new ute, I want all the fruit. Find me a Ute that comes near the Chinese in price and value. (That isn’t used with 100,000km on the clock).

Or some girl wants a brand new hatch back, but only has $20k, anything near the price of an MG?

There’s nothing stopping Ford, Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi selling their XLT(and equivalent) utes for even $50k except greed.

Smoke Pursuit · 06-08-2021, 12:10 AM

Getting back on topic but has anyone else noticed the issue at Ford… it’s becoming the Ranger car company quicker then you can say hamburger. I’d like to know why Ford Australia is getting zero allocation of cars like Escape and Focus when they are still spending money marketing them?

I just bought my first Toyota on the weekend. I have to wait 7 months + for it but atleast the dealership had 10 I could look out unlike Ford who had 1 base model Escape!

**PG2** · 06-08-2021, 04:58 AM

There seems to be a little too much concern for what drugs other people are taking in this thread. Also in return there seems to be too much concern for the amount of help that others need.

There will be no more.

Also, if you report a post, report what your issue(s) is/are and leave it at that. Admin and the mods know the rules - we don't need to be told them when you report the post. Just a hint, when you try to be a smart **** when reporting a post, it is generally ignored.

Continue on (on topic that is).

Dr Smith · 06-08-2021, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Getting back on topic but has anyone else noticed the issue at Ford… it’s becoming the Ranger car company quicker then you can say hamburger. I’d like to know why Ford Australia is getting zero allocation of cars like Escape and Focus when they are still spending money marketing them?

I just bought my first Toyota on the weekend. I have to wait 7 months + for it but atleast the dealership had 10 I could look out unlike Ford who had 1 base model Escape!

Same, replaced a Trafic with a Vito...sitting on the floor, rear wing doors, 2000kg+ towing, no wait...On Tuesday I enquired about replacing our Custom...Ford...not taking orders even when I said I'm happy to wait until mid-next year...

By the way what did you buy?

Franco Cozzo · 06-08-2021, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordman1

No the LDV is rubbish and every other Ute in that class is better, but you have an issue with Thai built Utes anyway.

The current Ranger (before the new one) is 2 generations better 👍

Then why does it score positive reviews?

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...review-122804/

https://www.caradvice.com.au/787174/...0-luxe-review/

One of the negatives is its 'under powered' - yeah the whole class is underpowered.

Looks like good value to me being half the price of the equivalent Ranger.

au2000 · 06-08-2021, 06:15 AM

Son's new Hiace arrived last week. Must say it's the first time a van has impressed me, extremely car like on the inside, silent for a desiel and massive space in the cabin.
Definetley not the most visually attractive van out there but extremely comftable and feature packed with a large touch screen. His only complaint is the constant school zone warnings that come up no matter what day or time of the week it is.
All 7 Hiaces have now been delivered and every one of the guys who have traded in a variety of utes ( dmax, Ranger, bt 50) are now all converted and never want a ute again, all have stated for a work car, a van is the way to go regarding storage and tool security.

Franco Cozzo · 06-08-2021, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Do you think Taiwan is ok to buy from? Technically it's China, but also not really. I've found some electronics list they are made in Taiwan. I guess they're trying to distance themselves from the Made In China logo people look down on.

Taiwan is ethnically Chinese but it's a democratic country, its origin is from the Chinese civil war during and post WWII, communists (People's Republic of China) overthrew it's government (Republic of China) and the ROC government fled to Taiwan.

How long they stay democratic for depends on the West's appetite to fight a significant regional war