Audi USA, calls GM Volt car for idiots!

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by torbirdie

I think you are misunderstanding the perceived problem. Em radiation from high voltage power lines and microwave emissions from mobile phones can be measured and do exist, what the power companies and mobile phone companies were denying was that either was of a concern for public health.
As far as I know, no one has measured any levels of em radiation emanating from an electric vehicle from which to base any health concerns.

So your certain that an em meter will not read voltage in a motor vehicle while driven? It would be good to actually find out what voltage & current a typical electric/hybrid vehicle puts out?

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

So your certain that an em meter will not read voltage in a motor vehicle while driven? ?

Absolutely

Perhaps some essential background here: em meter wont read the voltage the motor is "putting out" it measures the intenisty and frequencies of the electric/magnetic fields that are produced, see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMF_meter

The electric motor of the car will require a certain voltage to create the necessary current to create full power. Its not "putting" this energy out, its changing the electrical energy into moving energy of the vehicle.

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

It would be good to actually find out what voltage & current a typical electric/hybrid vehicle puts out?

Search engines are your friend: You can see the specs for the chevy volt at:http://green.autoblog.com/2007/01/07...he-chevy-volt/
320V operating voltage, sure you could get electrocuted, but you'd have to try hard, but hair raising levels of em, no.

It would seem that you are trying hard to reject the idea of electric cars, perhaps concentrate on something else, like how they will be dangerous because they dont make any noise. or look at these for a laugh:http://www.topfive.com/dangers-of-electric-cars.shtml

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by torbirdie

Perhaps some essential background here: em meter wont read the voltage the motor is "putting out" it measures the intenisty and frequencies of the electric/magnetic fields that are produced, see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMF_meter

The electric motor of the car will require a certain voltage to create the necessary current to create full power. Its not "putting" this energy out, its changing the electrical energy into moving energy of the vehicle.

You can see the specs for the chevy volt at:http://green.autoblog.com/2007/01/07...he-chevy-volt/
320V operating voltage, sure you could get electrocuted, but you'd have to try hard, but hair raising levels of em, no.

It would seem that you are trying hard to reject the idea of electric cars, perhaps concentrate on something else, like how they will be dangerous because they dont make any noise.

Thanks but i think we should be going down the path of hydrogen as hydrogen is everywhere it is just a bit costly to make at the moment & any ideas to make it are snapped up & then shelved, but whatever the power required to run a motor it is the batteries that are far worse to dispose of on the envoirment moreso than no sound.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Thanks but i think we should be going down the path of hydrogen as hydrogen is everywhere it is just a bit costly to make at the moment & any ideas to make it are snapped up & then shelved, but whatever the power required to run a motor it is the batteries that are far worse to dispose of on the envoirment moreso than no sound.

Hydrogen is all around us?, yes and no, plenty of molecules with hydrogen attached, but the stuff that will power cars(hydrogen gas) can only be found in the stratosphere. We need energy to make hydrogen gas from other substances, just as we need energy to charge batteries, the big problem really is getting that energy without producing CO2

My money is on battery technology going ahead in leaps and bounds. Electric motors are just a whole lot better when it comes to power to weight ratio.
Hydrogen cars will still use relatively heavy combustion engines(which are at best 30% efficient compared to electric at ~85%) + heavy tanks + will need a whole new method of distribution. However, they would still fulfill a purpose when extensive range is needed. Perhaps you are thinking of hydrogen fuel cells that power electric motors, they are a different kettle of fish.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

FACTS? What facts?
Most of the points you made were simply incorrect, i was just pointing that out. If you wish to START an arguement, at least bring something worthwhile to the table, instead of baseless nonsense.
To suggest that Audi has not been innovating compared to GM is ludicrous. Just because they're not that big over your side of the world doesn't mean they aren't dominating other world markets in their respective class, and might therefore believe that EV is better off being filtered into the top end of the market, not the bottom where it is unaffordable for most users. Let the richie riches invest in the technology 1st.

I wouldn't say that GM is doing anything good right now, the companies back almost broke, so now they are looking to capitalise on the next big thing, whether they have chosen the right next big thing remains to be seen.

When you can't win an argument, use the bankruptcy. Maybe it's because GM spent more money than what came in? Maybe they invested in technologies that are yet to pay for themselves. You probably don't consider expenses such as number of brands, number of factories, number of employees, number of dealerships and their employees, higher volume cars with lower margins. Don't you think a recessession would affect these companies harder than one that makes fewer brands, fewer models, higher margins and way fewer dealers? Before you try to win an argument, could you please have a point? Instead of throwing anything out there you can think of. You are all over the place. BTW I have driven plenty of Audi/VWs including the Touareg V10 diesel.
And the "your side of the world" crap. Shut up, I have lived most of my life in Australia. I know that most people there have a Ford, Holden or Toyota - not Audis and BMWs. I think you are on the wrong forum dude.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

-Active Fuel Management was concieved by GM, how would any other manufacturer be using it before them???

You are just talking out your backside now... :

AFM is a fancy way of saying DOD which has been around for a while. Lots of Damiler products have DOD.

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by article from post 1

De Nysschen is quoted as saying: "No one is going to pay a [US]$15,000 premium for a car that competes with a Corolla," he said. "So there are not enough idiots who will buy it."

I like this quote - could also describe the Prius, which has sold quite a lot.

[Carby]

Originally Posted by flappist

I suspect this is just briliant marketing.

Make a car that is ideal for idiots.

Then look for a place full of idiots that will buy it.

What country constantly shows it has an overabundance of idiots?

Where is this car being sold...........

Well guess what That Idiotic company Audi is releasing an EV R8 at the Frankfurt Motor show - hypocrites!!

[GASWAGON]

A little off topic but still connected! 4 Corners Tonight has big info on some serious 'issues' about clean coal technology...... Apparently it seems our vast amounts of 'polluting' coal energy can't be cleaned up after all..... So maybe EV's won't save the planet.... Big problem it seems???

[Rev28K]

Everyone knows that hybrids aren’t the ultimate answer but they are a stop gap technology that can be sold now while the manufacturers (initially Honda & Toyota) greatly subsidize the cost of the technology by selling the cars at a loss.

A lot of manufacturers were bagging the early hybrids while saying that they were working on more elegant or realistic solutions. The problem is that consumers wanted the green badge of honour now. Toyota largely won the marketing war and a lot of sales/goodwill by being first to market and by giving their Prius a unique recognisable look.

Biofuel seems to be a bit of a furphy too, even with GM crops that use most of the growth.

BMW has some smart engineers but their sales are tanking now and hydrogen research costs $$$.

Mercedes took a battering with the Chrysler split although they are clawing it back in other areas.

VW/Audi also have some smart guys and their economies of scale from Skoda to Lamborghini/Bentley across the range are huge. Modular engines really pay off 3-4-5-6-8-10-12 really pay off. They were damn smart not to get in to F1 and spend Ford (Jaguar) or Toyota money $120+m per annum for 0 results, instead they threw their money in to the compromised Bugatti Veyron and now they are known by the man-in-the-street as the makers of the fastest and most powerful car in the world (yeah I know that it isn’t either).

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by chevypower

When you can't win an argument, use the bankruptcy. Maybe it's because GM spent more money than what came in? Maybe they invested in technologies that are yet to pay for themselves. You probably don't consider expenses such as number of brands, number of factories, number of employees, number of dealerships and their employees, higher volume cars with lower margins. Don't you think a recessession would affect these companies harder than one that makes fewer brands, fewer models, higher margins and way fewer dealers? Before you try to win an argument, could you please have a point? Instead of throwing anything out there you can think of. You are all over the place. BTW I have driven plenty of Audi/VWs including the Touareg V10 diesel.
And the "your side of the world" crap. Shut up, I have lived most of my life in Australia. I know that most people there have a Ford, Holden or Toyota - not Audis and BMWs. I think you are on the wrong forum dude.

I wasn't trying to railroad GM as hopeless at all, I realise all car makers are having a hard time in the US, and it's not their fault the economy is suffering.

No need to get your knickers in a knot about where you're from, how should i bloody know, the most i know about you is from details in your sig.

Anyway none of this is related to topic so i give up, you win, your closer to the mickey mouse badges so grab one for yourself when you're near disneyland or disneyworld, whichever.

Originally Posted by Carby

Well guess what That Idiotic company Audi is releasing an EV R8 at the Frankfurt Motor show - hypocrites!!

Ummm yep because as the article pointed out they are choosing to release their EV line in the 'top end' of their range, instead of expecting Mr & Mrs low - middle income to snap them up in oooverpriced shopping trolleys. Makes some sense really.

Originally Posted by irlewy86

AFM is a fancy way of saying DOD which has been around for a while. Lots of Damiler products have DOD.

Yeah you're right it is the same as DOD. AFM is actually shared with chrysler/daimler because of their use of 2 valve pushrod engines. My mistake.
AFM the moniker is patented by GM however.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by EF_6

A little off topic but still connected! 4 Corners Tonight has big info on some serious 'issues' about clean coal technology...... Apparently it seems our vast amounts of 'polluting' coal energy can't be cleaned up after all..... So maybe EV's won't save the planet.... Big problem it seems???

Watching it as we speak, carbon sequestration-if they ever get it to work on a large enough scale, it will be too late. At the moment they are pulling a great con by being allowed to continue "business as usual" with just vague promises that they will get it to work, there is no real incentive for them to get their act together pronto.

a small proportion of EV would make a difference for the moment by using the off peak power that would simply be wasted but not a long term solution for to replace petrol cars with ev unless we change how we make the electricity.

[Ohio XB]

Though I am nowhere near as versed on CO2 considerations as many here are, being a person in the American market where the EV's of topic are going to be marketed I do have a couple thoughts.


First, is Audi doing just wonderful in this horrible economic climate? Not bad as some, but yes, they are also suffering the consequences of the current global ecomonic crisis and automotive market situation. So what does Audi have to gain by commenting on GM's Volt? Will this help their sales? Reduce their costs? Improve their vehicles? Create more innovation?

My only thought (right or wrong) is to join in with the other bullies and kick a guy when he's down in order to fit in with the other bullies.


Alan Mulally (Ford CEO and President) has been asked a number of times to comment on GM and Chrysler and he has not taken the opportunity to do so. At most he's said that they are working on their problems, and that's about it. He then always directs the interviewer to what Ford is doing to improve their situation. In these times Ford needs to worry only about themselves, and this is where their efforts are at. It will do Ford no good to kick GM in the media while they are down. I would think Audi would be working on the same thing, themselves.


When it comes to hydrogen or electricity to power vehicles, I am not intelligent enough to know where to go on these points, but I do have thoughts to consider.

A Hydrogen infrastructure would have to be built from the ground up. There is so little structure in place now to provide the gas for motor vehicle use.

Electricity is everywhere, already. At home you can plug your car in overnight, today, this afternoon, if you had an electric car. The electric Focus that Ford is coming out with for 2011 will go 100 miles on a charge. Depending on where you live that will be $1 to $2 worth of electricity, which is a far cry from what it would cost in gasoline to go that far. Installing charging stations at other locations would be far less involved than creating an infrastructure for hydrogen.


The Audi boss made this statement about electric vehicles.....

De Nysschen is quoted .....

He stated electric vehicles (EVs) are more about making a statement.

"They're for the intellectual elite who want to show what enlightened souls they are," he told MSNAutos

I'll tell you what. The environment is not a consideration in my vehicle purchasing decision. What is a consideration is money; my wallet. I never considered an electric car until I heard I can drive 100 miles for about $1.50. This would take care of 90% of all my daily driving every year. That is a huge savings and would make a premium worth it as I keep my vehicles a long time. I am not looking to make a statement, I am looking at keeping money in my wallet, as many Americans do.

As for the Volt, I have no idea how successful it will or won't be. Hey, I though "who in their right mind will go backwards in technology to texting when we already have the portable phone?" Boy was I off there!!!!!


So those are my thoughts on this, for whatever they are or aren't worth.

Steve

[Carby]

[QUOTE=yzfr101].



Ummm yep because as the article pointed out they are choosing to release their EV line in the 'top end' of their range, instead of expecting Mr & Mrs low - middle income to snap them up in oooverpriced shopping trolleys. Makes some sense really.


RUBBISH - want proof -think Prius 2million sales for a $20K more Corolla!

Audi US guy should pull his head in.

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by Carby

RUBBISH - want proof -think Prius 2million sales for a $20K more Corolla!

Audi US guy should pull his head in.

Yeah great, well done the prius. The article relates to full EV's anyhow so why bring prius into it? Completely different concept your banging on about.

Who will buy it and what are their motives might be what Audi guy is getting at. Only the well to do who believe the planet will explode unless they drive a (cough) green car, and the public sector will buy it probably, who knows.

[Carby]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

Yeah great, well done the prius. The article relates to full EV's anyhow so why bring prius into it? Completely different concept your banging on about.

Who will buy it and what are their motives might be what Audi guy is getting at. Only the well to do who believe the planet will explode unless they drive a (cough) green car, and the public sector will buy it probably, who knows.

Full EV's ? - Are you aware that the Volt has a 1.4 litre ICE (Internal combustion engine) that recharges the batteries when they run down?

It's comparable to the Prius but they do actually use their ICE for different purposes.

Mate it's not a matter of the public buying it - it is the Governments that will force these things on us. "Dirty" cars are already being taxed more overseas -why do you think the Government is putting Co2 stickers on all new vehicles sold? Because soon they will start taxing cars on their emissions - even councils will charge more for parking a V8 over a Hybrid or diesel in their municipalities....it's just a matter of time.

[GASWAGON]

I don't like 'imported' product but I saw last week KIA i think have made a LPG/EV car....now thats at least 'cleaner' step if only a small one especially as we have an abundance of lpg ie Gorgan deal!!! And it appears the Carbon capture idea is too costly unfortunately and not even one 'test' plant has even been built yet .......WTF!!!!

[irish2]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

Yeah you're right it is the same as DOD. AFM is actually shared with chrysler/daimler because of their use of 2 valve pushrod engines. My mistake.
AFM the moniker is patented by GM however.

Calling a Crap something else then patenting the name does not make a smart man. DOD has been around over 2 decades and has been dropped before now because it achieved sweet F A.

[vztrt]

Seems that Mr Audi made a point.

Survey finds Americans want to go hybrid, can't afford it

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/11/s...ant-afford-it/

Survey finds Americans want to go hybrid, can't afford it

by Vladislav Savov posted Sep 11th 2009 at 7:02AM

48 percent of respondents to a recent Pike Research survey have classified themselves as very or extremely intrested in buying a plug-in hybrid vee-hee-cle, and 65 percent of them were willing to pay a premium price relative to a regular old petrol puffer. This enthusiasm stretched to an average premium of 12 percent which, while encouraging, still won't quite cover the current price gap between hybrids and, erm, monobryds? It would seem, then, that the environmental, fuel efficiency and plug-in ability benefits aren't lost on buyers, but neither are basic principles of economics. Our view on things? What we need is a netbook equivalent in the car world -- a dirt-cheap hybrid that students and hippies can get behind and stimulate the move of all prices downwards.