Scooters - Would you buy one?

[mcnews]

Scooters are great fun and good transport.

The newer Bolwell stuff is pretty good value for money, Gmax 150 is the smallest you can go for if you want to be able to 100km/h or more for any length of time.

Piaggio X8 250 is a reasonable jigger for the next size up with decent storage and sort of halfway between a lightweight scoot and a large maxi size scoot. It offers much of the storage but without the bulk and is also cheaper than the maxi scooters.

Best value I think of the maxi scoots are Suzuki's 400 Burgman, most storage of all the Burgman range and good enough performance for touring with a passenger. I also managed to fit three cartons (72 cans) of beer under the seat :->

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

You'd be better off getting a 250 road bike. Yamaha and honda have 250 commuters for about 5k brand new. You won't look as queer, and if you need to you can take it on the highway.

You also won't have any storage and all the 250cc roadbikes are decade old designs that really are shitful things. 250cc scooters will also generally out accelerate and even out handle some of the poxy 250cc roadbikes.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by sleekism

SCOOTERS ARE GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, if you want to save money and still keep your dignity AND still have fun then by a 250cc road bike or trail bike.

I have a Suzuki GN250 and I recommend them completely they use about 3L per 100 kilometres get up to about 140kays, are xtremely reliable and easy to maintain and still acceearate faster than a VL lol lol.

It's very much worth it getting your motos-sure you can ride a 50cc scooter but have you actually ridden a 50cc scooter especialy a 4 stroke!

And you will get blown off at the lights by a decent 250cc scooter. My god how could anyone that rides a GN250 call any other vehicle on the planet gay...

[robbo_yobbo]

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

All the benefits of a scooter (see above) but much more safer.

not all the benefits.

benefits of a scooter over a bike.

-you dont need to fork ot $600 odd dollars for the liscence class
-you dont need to wait to do the 2 compulsory rider courses
-scooters are cheaper than bikes
-if necessary, you can give your scooter to anyone to ride, they dont need a liscence. (eg, you could be paro and need someone elso to ride you home, if they dont have a class r, they cant do this on a bike)
-scooters are very easy to re-sell, at no depreciation, 1 add and the phone will ring within the hour. bikes are not so easy to sell, you will loose more on your bike.
-tyre changes - much much much much cheaper
-repair costs if necessary - also cheaper

benefits of a bike over a scooter
-they dont look gay
-they go faster - if this makes them safer or not is debatable, but in city driving 50/60 is the limit anyway, my 50cc with a big bore kit, zorst, and sprocket change does 80, definiteley enough to keep up with and outrun city traffic, and takes a passenger with ease (providing your not putting more than 150kg over the little thing)

[XA Coupsta]

That $600 on the licence and the course is THE best thing about a bike. What you learn on that course is life saving. Not word of a lie.

Thats why majority of scooter riders are dangerous. Totally unskilled, no knowledge on road craft for bikes - you can walk into a shop and ride one out.

I dont agree with being able to ride a bike on a car licence.

Hell I even think the 2 day course (Qride and the like) isnt enough - but at least its something and it taught me heaps.

I disagree with your comments of a bike being harder to sell than a scooter. No depreciation on a scooter? Hows that exactly?

Having the ability to go faster is safer (not necessarily going faster). I maintain that comment. Specially if you lane split (which it sounds like you do) - most cars hate that - you get to the first at the lights - the car behind you is going to boot it to get right up your rear wheel........i'd wanna be on something bigger than a scooter to have the ability of acceleration should you need it. There are other situations but that one springs straight to mind.

[robbo_yobbo]

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

That $600 on the licence and the course is THE best thing about a bike. What you learn on that course is life saving. Not word of a lie.

Thats why majority of scooter riders are dangerous. Totally unskilled, no knowledge on road craft for bikes - you can walk into a shop and ride one out.

I dont agree with being able to ride a bike on a car licence.

Hell I even think the 2 day course (Qride and the like) isnt enough - but at least its something and it taught me heaps.

I disagree with your comments of a bike being harder to sell than a scooter. No depreciation on a scooter? Hows that exactly?

Having the ability to go faster is safer (not necessarily going faster). I maintain that comment. Specially if you lane split (which it sounds like you do) - most cars hate that - you get to the first at the lights - the car behind you is going to boot it to get right up your rear wheel........i'd wanna be on something bigger than a scooter to have the ability of acceleration should you need it. There are other situations but that one springs straight to mind.

no depreciation on a skooter because thier all the rage at the moment with the petrol prices. I did a ring around from the trading post, and it didnt matter how old it was (10 years or 10 months), or how many kays it had done, they were all around the same price, and had all been sold by the time I rang. there was the occasional damaged cheapie, and one bloke said he sold it for more than he paid for it, so thats where thats comming from.

The course is good for an idiot, Ive ridden bikes my whole life, Ive never had a liscence, and wouldnt classify myself as a danger to myself or others on a skooter, any moreso than a bike. Im sure there are others that would be different and others that would be the same, and in these cases would imagine the rider safe courses to be a meer formality based on what I have heard from others.

each can be there own judge as to weather they need the course or not on the skooter - if your unsure, then you probably need it. if your cocky and think you dont (but really do) then its your own life your risking, your not much risk to others on a skooter, and if you realy dont need it, then bonus, you dont have to have it

I would even go so far as to suggest its a good way to learn to ride a bike before getting a bike or liscence. borrow or hire a scooter to see if you like it!

fact of the matter is an idiot is an idiot and will kill themselfe on anything, it doesnt matter how big or small, or how fast or slow, that truck at the intersection is still biger than you!
plenty of people that have done driver training still end up in accidents, we obviously all had read the handbook to get our car liscence. experiance and attitude means alot more in my books then training courses

every scooter and bike has its limits, acceleration is not always the safe option either, slow down, pull over, stop or change lanes are some of the many options available.

theres also some people that wont even want to use all the acceleration a scooter has. a 45kg girl may struggle with a big 1200cc bike (an extreem example) but excell on a 50cc scooter. each to thier own

[robbo_yobbo]

I forgot to mention, no passengers for 12 months on a bike - just another +1 for the skooter

[XRchic]

A mate of mine, in full protective gear, was hit on a roundabout by a truck who drove straight into him because he didnt see him. My mate was in hospital for months. Had a lot of skin damage, lost a thumb and has pins and plates in most limbs. He has spent a lot of additional time in hospital with skin graft surgery.

If you get one, dont skimp on the protective gear, probably worth over $1K.

Ive worked in the Emergency dept of a large public hospital for long enough to see a lot of injuries from riding on two wheels... You can imagine the injuries.

They must save heaps on fuel though!!!!!

[Quicksand]

A valid point XRchic; every policeman i have spoken to has just said 'dont ever get a bike' which i suppose is ironic as they have bikes in their system but anyhow...

The type of stories they have told me about bike accidents would horrify you.

Some would say cars aren't much safer?

Originally Posted by XRchic

You can imagine the injuries.

[robbo_yobbo]

its like anything.

A fork (yes for eating) inconveniantly positioned at the wrong time with the right(wrong) series of events, or placed in the wrong persons hands, could cause serious injury or death.

However, the benefits of using a fork to eat your food, outweighs the associated risks provided your careful with it and dont act stupid.

As with the fork, I think the benefits of a scooter outweigh the associated risks, again as long as your not an idiot on it, and stay alert.

[HOON69]

Im buying a scooter NEW
$1700 does 80-90kmh
they might look crap but who cares when your saving crap loads of money

fuel
rego
time in traffic

its eventually gunna save you loads of money as soon as you start using it

[robbo_yobbo]

Originally Posted by HOON69

Im buying a scooter NEW
$1700 does 80-90kmh
they might look crap but who cares when your saving crap loads of money

fuel
rego
time in traffic

its eventually gunna save you loads of money as soon as you start using it

Im guessing thats bigger than a 50cc, so youd need a bike liscence??? but the $1700 new price tag suggests its only a 50cc, in which case the advertisment probably means 80-90km/h down a steep hill with a tailwind

The only way I got my 50cc up to 80km/h was by fitting an 80cc bore (original motor so still regod as a 50cc = car liscence ok), and then still had to change the sprocket and the exhaust to push it to 80. stock it only just capped 60

[phillyc]

Well I own a SV650s motorbike and have often considered purchsing a scooter for the shorter trips and the additional storage that they offer.

At about $97 a year for rego and $100 greenslip in NSW they are so damn cheap!
Fuel economy is about 3L per 100km.
Parking is a breeze too!
Bugger all depreciation.

In NSW no matter the size, you are still required to do a course at the Motorcycle training spot, but it's a modified course specifically for scooters and not as hard.

So in your case, a scooter would suit your needs perfectly! ie Short trips, save money, ease of use etc.

Those saying they look gay are just not up with the times.

Go ahead and do it!

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by ThundaBird

Some would say cars aren't much safer?

True, in some ways they arent. However, had my mate been in a car at that roundabout, chances are a) the truck driver would have seen him and not hit him at all and b) if he had hit him, he would have been surrounded by a metal shell and probably some airbags and he wouldnt have had the injuries he ended up with.

I think the thing to remember though is that most bike riders are very safe and do the right thing - its being at the mercy of other people in much bigger vehicles and their stupid behaviour which would worry me, on a bike.

[XA Coupsta]

Originally Posted by robbo_yobbo

no depreciation on a skooter because thier all the rage at the moment with the petrol prices. I did a ring around from the trading post, and it didnt matter how old it was (10 years or 10 months), or how many kays it had done, they were all around the same price, and had all been sold by the time I rang.

Ummm.......so coz they are all around the same price this means they havent depreciated? :

Originally Posted by robbo_yobbo

The course is good for an idiot, Ive ridden bikes my whole life, Ive never had a liscence, and wouldnt classify myself as a danger to myself or others on a skooter, any moreso than a bike. Im sure there are others that would be different and others that would be the same, and in these cases would imagine the rider safe courses to be a meer formality based on what I have heard from others.

Until you've done the course how about you keep your ill informed opinion about the course (or those that do them - eg idiots) to yourself. I too have ridden bikes for years - so what. The course still teaches heaps. Are you Casey Stoner and you profess to know everything? Sounds like it.

Originally Posted by robbo_yobbo

your not much risk to others on a skooter.

What? Are you kidding?

Originally Posted by robbo_yobbo

every scooter and bike has its limits, acceleration is not always the safe option either, slow down, pull over, stop or change lanes are some of the many options available.

True acceleration is not always the safe option. But slowing down? Pulling over?! Changing lanes? Hell if all those are options coz you cant keep the pace in traffic I would argue each one of those would be MORE dangerous than keeping speed with traffic.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by kremmen

No.

Get a pushbike. Scooters are made for countries without 60-100kph roads


plus they look gay :

I gather you havnt looked arround places like rome where they do 200clicks on the free ways theres literaly sqillians of scooters over there

I wont make referance to the scooters and fat chicks joke though, opps Ithink I just did

[AUIII]

I have thought about getting a scooter to travel to work because of free parking and cheap fuel, not going over 60 would not be a problem for me as I barely reach 20 in the car during peak hour and plenty of scooters and bikes cruise past with out an issue.

I saw another alternative today sitting in heavy traffic and not moving I heard what sounded like a massive fart, and a kid on motorised bicycle flew past along the foot path.

Has any one got one of these? What are they like? Can you use them like a normal bike if you run out of fuel, for me this would be a great way to get to work As I have designated bike paths all the way to work no cars to worry about, I use to ride to work on a normal bicycle but the whole taking clothes and showering at work got a bit tiresome plus I got fat and lazy.

[Squalo]

The type of stories they (cops) have told me about bike accidents would horrify you.

Of course they would. You think the stories they can tell about car accidents wouldn't? Remember that cops see every accident - you and I don't. It's all relative. I've been riding dirt and road for 22 years and have never seen anything worse than a broken leg when someone's come a gutzer. Manage the risk and you're fine.

Scooters are great, but as a few people have mentioned - don't get a 50, get 125 or above. Avoid 10" wheels, go for 13/14" (they handle bumps, potholes, rail/tram tracks so much better). Gear up, don't be the guy in the skin-graft ward saying "gee I wish I'd listened". Remember this quote:

During the Middle Ages, probably one of the biggest mistakes was not putting on your armour because you were "just going down to the corner."

Oh, and while scooters are not gay, two blokes on one scooter is gay ; )

Trev is right, forget 250 roadbikes, good scooters (Japanese or Italian) are a far more practical proposition for short trips.

Want a scooter, I say go for it. I share a Vespa GT200 with my wife; we both have our own roadbikes but it's the scooter key that we fight over : )

[Neeek]

Originally Posted by Squalo

I share a Vespa GT200 with my wife; we both have our own roadbikes but it's the scooter key that we fight over : )

It's weird, isn't it... my wife has loaned her ET4 150 to a friend of ours who's a complete road bike nutter (didn't want to sell it, so better to have it being used than sitting under a tarp in the garage). He was between bikes and said he'd love to use it to run around on and commute, until he bought his Speed Triple in a month or two when he'd use the scooter just for commuting.

He's cancelled his order for the Triumph. Why? He loves the little Vespa too much and now wants to buy it off us! I think he's mad (and it's not for sale, just for loan), but a good scooter clearly has an odd effect on some people..!!

[robbo_yobbo]

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

Ummm.......so coz they are all around the same price this means they havent depreciated? :

FYI, the models I inquired about were all the same price from new as eachother (within $500). every single one had lost the initial $400-600 second hand depreciation hit. But it didnt matter how old they were. so that tells me that if you buy new, you will loose around $500, no matter weather you keep it for 5 months or 5 years. on the other hand, if you buy one thats already used, the new owner has already worn that loss for you, and it doesnt appear likeley that your going to loose much (if any) more, providing its kept in descent nick and not dropped.

So to answer your question, if they were all the same price from new, and they were all the same price at resale, but all at varying ages, then YES, after the initial loss, none of them depreciated any further. :

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

Until you've done the course how about you keep your ill informed opinion about the course (or those that do them - eg idiots) to yourself. I too have ridden bikes for years - so what. The course still teaches heaps. Are you Casey Stoner and you profess to know everything? Sounds like it.

Err, Im pretty sure your reading things wrongly if you go back and re-read. I didnt say that people that do the course are idiots. I said that the course is good for an idiot (IE ALL IDIOTS NEED THE COURSE, not all that do the course are idiots : ).
Im not proffessing to know everything (or anything for that matter). My statement was more to the point that imo, experiance provides for much better learning of ANYTHING (not just road related), then an off-road, training course providing for hypotheticals. And Furthermore, I think that it is great that people still get to make an informed decision of thier own weather they do this course or not when it comes to skooters - this freedom of choice is unfortunateley not available everywhere else when it comes to the road, and in some instances that is a good thing, but in others......

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

What? Are you kidding?

No Im not, and notice I didnt say "your NO hazzard to others", I said "NOT MUCH danger" -especialy in comparison to a large car (which I might add you already have a liscence for if your on a skooter). Ive seen the results of impact tests, a scooter hitting a SMALL car at 50km/h (the average speed for a 50cc) and leaving minimal damage to the car (surprisingly the skooter didnt come out too bad either). this was a T-Bone style collision, and Im sure most road related incidents involving scooters are more likeley to be side swipe style which would even lesser the damage and danger. Even colisions involving other scooter riders are not going to necessarily catastrophic at 50kph. I can say right now Ive had HEAAPS of bike accidents and collisions with other bikes (true offroad so didnt involve bitumen) at faster than 50kph, and the worst Ive ever came out with were bruising or non-serious breaks, but its Unlikeley (note I didnt say impossible), that a skooter driver is going to be responsible for Death or life threatening injury to another road user unless thier in a head on (in which case they shouldnt have a car liscence, ledalone be allowed to ride a skooter if thier the cause of a head on). Scooter drivers impose the biggest risk to pedestrians, but on the same note, Ive seen cyclists up around 30kph that can inflict similar results, and I dont hear any argument sugesting cyclists shoud do a course. But above all, a skooter driver is risking thier own saftey any more than anothers, so if they feel that their competant enough to place thier own life in thier own hands, then who am I (OR YOU) to argue with them

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

True acceleration is not always the safe option. But slowing down? Pulling over?! Changing lanes? Hell if all those are options coz you cant keep the pace in traffic I would argue each one of those would be MORE dangerous than keeping speed with traffic.

I didnt say because you CANT KEEP PACE IN TRAFFIC as you are suggesting. that comment was a direct response to your suggestion that speeding up while being tailgated is a good move (which I totaly dissagree with). Scooters are more than capable of keeping up with city traffic (that is in most cases speed limited to 50kph/60kph - but usualy flows even slower). Most skooters will hit 50kph in no time flat, and then reach just over 60 in a few more seconds - the skooter is always at speed before the car behind you has caught up if theyre doing the speed limit too.

Now if your being tailgated, Ive never heard anyone in thier right mind before suggest that speeding up is the safest option. The general consensus from proffesionals seems to be gradualy slow down (so that if the driver behind is not paying attention they have time to respond) and if they dont overtake, either come to a complete stop, pullover or change lanes.

I dont mind a healthy disscusion/debate over the points and opinions I have raised, but if your going to argue it, at least keep it within the context that it was originaly written.

[Venomous1]

I don't understand why people say it's gay.

You may look silly is the better word but who cares it's your life how many scooters have you looked at and thought that dudes silly and after 10 minutes you already forgot.

I own a 50cc yamaha and takes me to University perfectly.
Performance Pipe better clutch etc.
can easily do 80km/h and leaves most cars for dead till 55km/h.
Costs me $8 to fill up with 98.
And is way cheaper and I can ride on my car license.
I park anywhere anytime.

Lots of space under the seat unlike normal bikes. Quite comfortable.

[john3136]

Originally Posted by Neeek

until he bought his Speed Triple in a month or two when he'd use the scooter just for commuting.

He's cancelled his order for the Triumph.

I suspect he forgot to wear his helmet, fell off the scooter and knocked a few screws loose ;-)

[DBL15]

do it for sure i have one and yes there funny but bloody cheap is a understatement just clicked over 3000km's and i have put $168 in fuel total for just over 1 years riding to work and back home again at 7.2km each way

mine has bembo brakes so stopping is not a problem its a yamaha as well 50cc and its fun to be honest top speed of 74km/hour till yesterday i hit 80 : :LOL:

but anyway safe ummm well your only as safe as the others around you and yes i have had a few close calls with cars that pull out on you etc but you get that when your in your car anyway

be alert and i move over for cars and the amount of thank you waves i get its all worth it in the end

i will admit i ride back streets but thats just me being that extra bit safer

and plus its a huge change when i jump back into my supercharged XR8 ute

all in all i love my scooter for coming to work and home daily as the ute costs about $90 to fill every couple of weeks i know for a fact i am miles in front on fuel saving etc hense i have moded my ute big time : : :

[robbo_yobbo]

Just stumbled across an interesting document on the transport SA site relevant to this thread, very relevant to all those who think scooters/bikes are dangerous.

http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safet.../2007June.html

The doc shows fatalaties from year to date on SA roads untill july 2nd 07.

of a total 59 fatalaties, 5 involved motor cycles (which includes mopeds/scooters)

5 also involved bicycle's too!

So scooters/motorbikes are no less safe than bicycles, and allot safer than large vehicles which had 47 fatalaties.

In actual fact, its more dangerous to be a pedestrian than on a motorcycle/scooter, as 7 fatalaties involved pedestrians!

Now I thik that we can all agree scooters pose less threat to a pedestrian than a big car, so its fairly safe to assume (based on the documented evidence of SA roads) that scooters riders are less likeley to be in a fatal crash than car drivers, and commonsense says that your less danger to others if your on a scooter (compared to a car).

I read another report somewhere showing speed analysis too, and the OVERWHELMING majority of accidents involving motorcycles (which includes scooters too) were all at very high speed. This would suggest that a low powered scooter not capable of reaching high speeds would be INCREDIBLY safe in comparison.

guess that makes scooters the all around safer option! - SAFER THAN WALKING TOO! it seems catching the bus is the only way safer (but more pricey and a hell of a lot less flexible)

[XR8-260]

Scooter? No way! I'm pretty content driving my fuel guzzling V8. Plus I don't pay for fuel :monkes:.

[XR8-260]

edit...

[XA Coupsta]

Robbo yobbo are you serious? Actually from your past posts I know you are.

You have a ........... lets say .............. 'unique' way of interpreting information. I challenge (and still do but im over posting about it) your definition of depreciation from earlier posts.

But now you've taken the cake - you say scooters are safer. You've looked at fatality stats and come to that conclusion.

Are you a politician by chance? You can make the facts say whatever you want basically!

There is so much more to look at than just fatalities.

For example. For those 5 fatalities on scooters - were you told how many accidents actually occured? So maybe there was only 5 total accidents - and ALL resulted in fatalities?

Same way the 47 that involved cars - there might have been 1000 accidents to actually see 47 fatalities.

Ive only used examples here but im demonstrating how you really cant look at one statistic and come out with a blanket statement after doing so. Which is what you've done. Due to only 5 fatalities on scooters they are now 'safer' than other modes.

Then we can go on a whole new track about just how many scooters Vs cars are registered. Look at the sizes of the two sample groups - they will be WORLDS apart (as in many more cars registered than scooters). So you could then look at percentages of fatalities and maybe those 5 - are a fairly decent percentage - and those 47 of cars - arent really.

But I doubt you are wanting to report on the entire picture coz then you cant make your ridiculous claims sound reasonable.

Get a grip mate - you post trash.

[robbo_yobbo]

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

Robbo yobbo are you serious? Actually from your past posts I know you are.

You have a ........... lets say .............. 'unique' way of interpreting information. I challenge (and still do but im over posting about it) your definition of depreciation from earlier posts.

But now you've taken the cake - you say scooters are safer. You've looked at fatality stats and come to that conclusion.

Are you a politician by chance? You can make the facts say whatever you want basically!

There is so much more to look at than just fatalities.

For example. For those 5 fatalities on scooters - were you told how many accidents actually occured? So maybe there was only 5 total accidents - and ALL resulted in fatalities?

Same way the 47 that involved cars - there might have been 1000 accidents to actually see 47 fatalities.

Ive only used examples here but im demonstrating how you really cant look at one statistic and come out with a blanket statement after doing so. Which is what you've done. Due to only 5 fatalities on scooters they are now 'safer' than other modes.

Then we can go on a whole new track about just how many scooters Vs cars are registered. Look at the sizes of the two sample groups - they will be WORLDS apart (as in many more cars registered than scooters). So you could then look at percentages of fatalities and maybe those 5 - are a fairly decent percentage - and those 47 of cars - arent really.

But I doubt you are wanting to report on the entire picture coz then you cant make your ridiculous claims sound reasonable.

Get a grip mate - you post trash.

The last post was to give the "he man scooter haters club" a bit of a razz, I threw out the bait, you took it hook line and sinker......And your still running!!!! . No I dont believe Im safer to myself on a scooter than in a car (I do believe Im less danger to the public though), but even still, the facts are what they are.

Theres plenty of arguments that could have legitametly contested the above stats, but all the ones you made have more holes than a pin cushion...... I mean the "how many accidents didnt result in fatality" argument apllies to the car stats too, and would be directly proportional to the original stat - Thus - cancle eachother out. The other reason that argument is floored, is I would happily be involved in a million scooter incidents and live, instead of 1 car crash and die. - If you must argue the point, at least argue it properly.

Depreciation wise however, your wrong. wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. if you buy a second hand scooter tomorrow, (at the going rate), and keep it for 5 years, you will not loose money.

People that are selling thier second hand scooters today, that have owned them for 5 years, and originaly purchased second hand, did not loose money either. (were talking cheapie 50cc car liscence scooters here, not 100cc+)

the ones that purchase new, will loose out (I dont argue that), but after the initial new-to-used loss, its all roses my friend.

Its the same with allmost anything across the board, the cheapest stuff quite often holds value, while the mid range depreciates, and a select few at the top end appreciate.

[Squalo]

Robbo has a point, scooters and small bikes depreciate to a certain point then level out - I paid $4k for a Honda Spada 6 years ago, people are still paying that today (for the same year/condition). It's because there's a constant stream of new riders who want something reasonable. Factor in the low running costs over a few years ownership and the scooter/biker ends up financially far ahead of even the most cheapskate car driver.

Cars however depreciate until they are only worth money to Simms Metal.

As for safety, well as mentioned the statistics can be used to make any point you like. Often motorcycle fatality stats include offroad riders, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

Personally I feel safest on my VFR750, power is your friend. I even prefer it to our cars for heavy traffic - on the bike, I can easily move away from danger, in the car I feel trapped. Sounds weird, but that's my reality.

On the Vespa I'm a bit more vunerable, but you simply ride accordingly (and wear all the gear all the time).

[XA Coupsta]

Originally Posted by robbo_yobbo

The last post was to give the "he man scooter haters club" a bit of a razz, I threw out the bait, you took it hook line and sinker......And your still running!!!! . No I dont believe Im safer to myself on a scooter than in a car (I do believe Im less danger to the public though), but even still, the facts are what they are.

Theres plenty of arguments that could have legitametly contested the above stats, but all the ones you made have more holes than a pin cushion...... I mean the "how many accidents didnt result in fatality" argument apllies to the car stats too, and would be directly proportional to the original stat - Thus - cancle eachother out. The other reason that argument is floored, is I would happily be involved in a million scooter incidents and live, instead of 1 car crash and die. - If you must argue the point, at least argue it properly.

Depreciation wise however, your wrong. wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. if you buy a second hand scooter tomorrow, (at the going rate), and keep it for 5 years, you will not loose money.

People that are selling thier second hand scooters today, that have owned them for 5 years, and originaly purchased second hand, did not loose money either. (were talking cheapie 50cc car liscence scooters here, not 100cc+)

the ones that purchase new, will loose out (I dont argue that), but after the initial new-to-used loss, its all roses my friend.

Its the same with allmost anything across the board, the cheapest stuff quite often holds value, while the mid range depreciates, and a select few at the top end appreciate.

If you are (supposedly) aiming for an intellectual superiority when posting - at least do a spelling and grammar check. It still wont give your posts any credibility however - at least it will be correctly spelt rubbish.

Maybe your big bore with zorst scooter, with its neck snapping acceleration has caused you a brain injury - you are going in circles my friend.

Originally Posted by robbo_yobbo

Theres plenty of arguments that could have legitametly contested the above stats, but all the ones you made have more holes than a pin cushion...... I mean the "how many accidents didnt result in fatality" argument apllies to the car stats too, and would be directly proportional to the original stat - Thus - cancle eachother out.

Cancel each other out? Can statistics cancel each other out can they? Hmm thats new.

I am saying it would NOT be proportional to the original stat at all. I am saying for those 5 fatalities on scooters - there will be only a small amount of accidents to have occured to have those 5 fatalities. Hence your chances of being involved in a fatal accident on a scooter would be very high.

Conversely - there would be a far less chance of being involved in a fatal accident in a vehicle, even though there would be a very large number of accidents that would occur in this vehicle type.

You come to the ill informed conclusion that only 5 fatalities against a cars 47 (I think it was) means scooters are safer! And that my friend cannot be argued in any way shape or form to be correct!!!!