Australia Needs This Sheriff!!!

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Streets

this is good advice, as a "bleeding heart" I had a look into arpaio and WAS startled in what I found

most of arpaio's inmates are detainees awaiting trial; they are innocent until proven guilty but their constitutional rights are violated anyway

he clears 75% of his cases without arrest or proper investigation, including more than 400 sex crimes and 32 child molestations

arpaio uses public funding and police resources to investigate his political rivals, which include mayors, judges, attorneys general, a school superintendent, and a newspaper editor

he spent 100 million dollars of public funding (that was meant to go towards detention facilities) on these investigations and to take his officers on trips to a fishing resort in Alaska and to Disneyland

arpaio charged an 18 year-old with plotting to kill arpaio with a pipe bomb; after the man had spent four years in jail it was discovered that arpaio's detectives had bought the bomb parts themselves and entrapped the 18yo

he racially profiles latinos; his officers pull them up and question them under suspicion of being illegal aliens despite having no probable cause for intercepting them, violating their constitutional rights

that's just what I learned in about 10 minutes reading

the guy is a grub who doesn't deserve to manage a hungry jacks much less a law enforcement agency

If this is such common knowledge, something you have stated as 'fact' after 10 minutes of internet research, how does he get away with it? I find these claims questionable...

[superyob]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the way a bunch of rednecks votes impresses me. remember that in the US you can be elected by less that 10% of the adult population if that's all that shows up to vote. This shows how bad our compulsory voting system that gets a true cross section is

Not sure what you mean here...

[aussiblue]

Having in the distant past worked as a volunteer small business adviser in the prison system helping selected near model prisoner plan to start a small business after prison (noting that prison record makes it very difficult to get a job) my observations are:

a) most of the research shows that it is near impossible to rehabilitate people while they are in prison; that has to happen after they are released;
b) prison is mostly about society's demands for revenge, punishment and deterrents (that latter works to an extent); but its also about protecting the rest of us from habitual criminals;
c) At the time I was involved, based on those subsequently proved innocent, and jail talk (prisoners often know who is innocent as their crime connection tell them about the guilty person still outside) about 5% of criminal in WA jails were innocent of the crime they were convicted of; although 3% of that 5% are probably habitual criminals that should be inside for another crime;
d) Once police officers convince themselves that someone is guilty is too easy for them, and often almost unconsciously, fabricate the evidence or collect a volume of circumstantial evidence;
e) once you have a criminal record you remain a suspect for any similar crimes once you are released;
f) At the extremes some of it is almost a class war; some of those with little hope of jobs and coming out of poverty perceive they will never have cars, jobs own homes etc. and therefore justify their stealing this way; One positive of the program I was involved in was that it made the prisoners understand that running a small business or being self employed involved hard work and wasn't a wealth guarantee - it increased their respect for other property etc.
g) Prison is an extremely unpleasant place to be (even as a volunteer visitor) even in minimum security prison farms.
h) Prisoners cook the food and most are not cordon bleu chefs or the least bit hygiene focussed.
i) There but for the grace of god go I; aside from those who had a tragic DD conviction after their first drinking episode others are emotional crimes that are almost understandable - for example what would you do if you came home and found your wife in bed with your best friend?
j) the majority of those involved in the small business project as volunteers turned out to be terminally ill and trying to earn brownie points before they died; only one other person of the dozen or so involved had other motives (my motive was part charity part keeping my small business advisory skills honed) and it is very difficult to get people to give charitable assistance to prisoners or volunteer help or dollars.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by superyob

Not sure what you mean here...

It's called sarcasm, look it up

[superyob]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

It's called sarcasm, look it up

Yes I am more than familiar with sarcasm. I'm still not sure what you mean...

[FGII-XR6]

now I know this is a difficult concept but read the whole post not just what you bolded. The bold bit is commenting on the first part and the way you can get a small part of the population voting someone in to office in the US

[superyob]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

now I know this is a difficult concept but read the whole post not just what you bolded. The bold bit is commenting on the first part and the way you can get a small part of the population voting someone in to office in the US

Thank you. I can be a bit dim at times...

[cheap]

So at worst the Sheriff is operating a half way house for a few luckless people these people have been incorrectly incarcerated because of the unfair US legal system, not withstanding the circumstances that these people have found themselves in the sheriff is providing these souls with food and shelter.

OR

At best the sheriff is administering appropriate management to bunch of confirmed criminals.

I fail to see why anyone thinks the sheriff is doing anything "wrong". The way some people are portraying him, he's as bad/mad as Kim Jong-un...

[Streets]

The fact that there are people in this very thread who would still want this guy as their sheriff despite being informed of his widespread corruption shows us why modern democracy is in the state it's in

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Streets

The fact that there are people in this very thread who would still want this guy as their sheriff despite being informed of his widespread corruption shows us why modern democracy is in the state it's in

Being 'informed' is not the same as being given verified facts...

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Having in the distant past worked as a volunteer small business adviser in the prison system helping selected near model prisoner plan to start a small business after prison :

I am guessing many are in there in the first place because they were running a small business dealing drugs or selling property stolen from our houses, garages and cars, so I am guessing many would have a small business background already

On a serious note how many were receptive of the idea of hard work and earning an honest living through getting out of bed every morning and working??

How many successful businesses were set up using this approach compared to how many just went back to lazing around and stealing and robbing and dealing drugs.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by superyob

Being 'informed' is not the same as being given verified facts...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio#Controversies

go nuts

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Streets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio#Controversies

go nuts

You do realise that Wikipedia is at best, an unreliable source of information? Anyone can edit or put anything they want on that website thus negating its use as a reputable basis for the dissemination of facts and figures. I don’t disbelieve that this Arpaio might be a disreputable person, but neither do I believe 99% of the information available on the internet...

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by superyob

You do realise that Wikipedia is at best, an unreliable source of information? Anyone can edit or put anything they want on that website thus negating its use as a reputable basis for the dissemination of facts and figures. I don’t disbelieve that this Arpaio might be a disreputable person, but neither do I believe 99% of the information available on the internet...

Except for this forum, right?

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by superyob

You do realise that Wikipedia is at best, an unreliable source of information? Anyone can edit or put anything they want on that website thus negating its use as a reputable basis for the dissemination of facts and figures. I don’t disbelieve that this Arpaio might be a disreputable person, but neither do I believe 99% of the information available on the internet...

You're right to be critical, so you should check the references at the bottom of the page. You'll be able to see if someone's misrepresenting source material, if there's info missing that the page needs, and assess the trustworthiness of the references. If you're not satisfied then take advantage of collaborative editing and edit it.

[rog xc]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

On a serious note how many were receptive of the idea of hard work and earning an honest living through getting out of bed every morning and working??

Everyday since I was 17. Even whilst on bail, right up to the day before I went to jail. Spent 16 months there, then everyday bar six months since being released & paroled in 2007.

Was arrested once, Charged once, 17 months bail, various court appearances then jailed. Was never in trouble before, or since. I was a "law abiding citizen" but even they break the law occasionally.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by rog xc

Everyday since I was 17. Even whilst on bail, right up to the day before I went to jail. Spent 16 months there, then everyday bar six months since being released & paroled in 2007.

Was arrested once, Charged once, 17 months bail, various court appearances then jailed. Was never in trouble before, or since. I was a "law abiding citizen" but even they break the law occasionally.

Were you part of the program to set up businesses, or was this of your own back??

[rog xc]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Were you part of the program to set up businesses, or was this of your own back??

Different jail. That scheme is WA, I'm in vic. I studied small business management whilst there, Which lead into the neis course on release. The point isn't what course, but the attitude & ethics behind it. I've always had a good work ethic, regardless of incarceration or not.

[Franco Cozzo]

http://www.vice.com/read/a-reminder-...man-in-america

Doesn't seem too damn rosey to me?

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by rog xc

Different jail. That scheme is WA, I'm in vic. I studied small business management whilst there, Which lead into the neis course on release. The point isn't what course, but the attitude & ethics behind it. I've always had a good work ethic, regardless of incarceration or not.

Good on you rog,you did what you had to do ,and id do the same ,dont let the knockers get to you ,you did your time and now enjoy the rest of your life ,I know the rog story and if you dont, just give him a bit of leeway please ,hes a good bloke ,hope you have a great new year mate

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

http://www.vice.com/read/a-reminder-...man-in-america

Doesn't seem too damn rosey to me?

Just read some of their other articles, I think I would take most of their articles as modified Amnesty International (who failed many times in the US Supreme Court to sue Sheriff Joe and failed) and many Greenpeace articles that I have read through political groups.

When they do their own investigation and reporting, might take their word.

Each can make their own choices and beliefs though.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Just read some of their other articles, I think I would take most of their articles as modified Amnesty International (who failed many times in the US Supreme Court to sue Sheriff Joe and failed) and many Greenpeace articles that I have read through political groups.

When they do their own investigation and reporting, might take their word.

Each can make their own choices and beliefs though.

The guy who wrote that article is someone who has been through jail so I'm pretty sure he would have an idea on what its like already.

I don't think they're the tax payer funded paid holiday in the sun like the media likes to sell it to us that they are.

[Madaya]

Just a bit of an angle here. A lot of folk, for some strange reason, look down upon Wikipedia because of the fact that anyone can edit it. Not quite true. Certain controversial subjects (Adolf Hitler etc) require login and proof of source etc, before you can edit. In most other cases, as a contributor, your facts or reasons, have to be backed up by peer reviewed, published material or similar.
Bang something bogus on Wiki, then expect to be banned from uploading ever again.
Sorry for the diversion here, but I'm tired of folk bagging Wikipedia. Go and check out the Ford Falcon on Wiki. If you find something wrong or can contribute, go for it. I find the data relating to Ford Australia, clear cut.
Cheers

p.s. If you can find fault with...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Barra_engine
feel free to contribute.

[superyob]

I must disagree Madaya (without malicious or know all intent). In my opinion, Wikipedia = drivel = wrong!!! No matter how much someone believes something to be correct, this belief does not make for analytically appraised fact. Researched facts verified by a reputable publisher is the most accepted source of 'fact'. That means reading books, either in hard or electronic copy, not accepting the biased opinion of someone who thinks they are correct...

[superyob]

Further to my above post, a cursory glance at some dubious information is not enough to condemn someone...

[hawkgirl]

Originally Posted by superyob

Researched facts verified by a reputable publisher is the most accepted source of 'fact'. .

like the published papers sprouting "research" on how vaccines are bad. Oh wait, they were discredited, the author was paid to write incorrect data.

Originally Posted by superyob

No matter how much someone believes something to be correct, this belief does not make for analytically appraised fact

i could say something here about bibles, korans, torah etc... but i wont.


the sheriff is a prat. Yes jail is for punishment of crims however there are lots of cases in the US of A where innocent people have been incarcerated or even executed, because the american system is geared towards justice for those with money. As in the words of David Byrne -
They say that crime don’t pay
The judge does not agree
’Cause if you got the money
He will surely set you free

personally i would find being made to eat vegetarian meals for more than 1 meal a cruel & unusual punishment

[Madaya]

No prob superyob. It used to be fact that the sun went around the earth. How much of a fact? You got burnt at the stake if you disagreed.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Madaya

No prob superyob. It used to be fact that the sun went around the earth. How much of a fact? You got burnt at the stake if you disagreed.

This is indeed true! Fact is very hard to define with a narrow viewpoint or selective information. I think I am naturally suspicious and cynical about many claims to 'fact' or judgments derived from 'fact'... I am not saying this sheriff is the greatest or the worst, but I wish people would use more substantial info when making a judgment about him...

Hawkgirl - religious scriptures are based on faith, not fact. Also, researched facts verified by a reputable publisher are still by far the safest way to base a judgement on, not the erroneous, malicious, populist gossip of random internet sites... Try submitting a University paper with Wikipedia in your bibliography. When I went to university 13 years ago, that was a big no no!

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The guy who wrote that article is someone who has been through jail so I'm pretty sure he would have an idea on what its like already.

I don't think they're the tax payer funded paid holiday in the sun like the media likes to sell it to us that they are.

So a former inmate writes and complains about being treated different to the general world that he broke the laws in, nothing new about that.

If the same person wrote an article from the perspective of a woman who was raped or a bloke who scrapped every dollar he worked for to buy the dream car to have it nicked by some low life scum or the family who had their house broken into and property stolen and if he made a face to face apology to the people he hurt in his endeavour to "live life" or "feed his family", maybe then his article would be worth something.

Until that happens, it is just another person complaining that he got caught and had to obey some rules.