'Post Pandemic' - On the roads

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

if a majority of people were too daft/lazy/greedy then they have got what - ultimately - they voted for.

this is why I continue to say that the universal franchise is bs. as long as the populist parties pander to the lowest common denominator, all we will ever get is short-termism, and self-interest. having the power to vote is a responsibility not a right, and should have more of an entry ticket than just having survived for 18 years

and before anyone ask - no, I don't have an answer. just a series of questions

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

this is why I continue to say that the universal franchise is bs. as long as the populist parties pander to the lowest common denominator, all we will ever get is short-termism, and self-interest. having the power to vote is a responsibility not a right, and should have more of an entry ticket than just having survived for 18 years

and before anyone ask - no, I don't have an answer. just a series of questions

The other side of the coin is compulsory voting reduces the chances of any extremes getting through and gives us a safe mediocrity in the two major political parties.

If you have a politically disengaged population and no compulsory voting, the only people who will turn out on election day are the fanatics or minorities who take an interest in the process, then you'll end up with a lot more fringe groups in parliament.

Double edged sword, or maybe is that what we need to reset things?

[Sprintey]

Australia's next boom: tent cities

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/202...m-tent-cities/

Read it and weep.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The thing is though, Australia with it’s massive mineral wealth, it’s ability to be totally self-sufficient and it’s relatively small population shouldn’t be in this position to begin with…
Governments (of both persuasions) have completely sold us down the sh itter!..
The old “fair go” mentality that Australia was built on, has long disappeared..
The annihilation of small businesses with excessive taxes/mandates/red tape’s whilst kowtowing to foreign owned multinationals that pay minimal tax and take all profits offshore… And like the sheep we are, we’ve naively let it happen!
We “should’ve” been the envy of the world!
It’s no bloody wonder that Australian society has evolved into a dog eat dog mentality…
And God help the generations that follow us!

Spot on Charlie, I'm old enough (just) to have been a little kid running around in the country QLD of my ancestors that was this 'fair go' society complete with the cane trains still running down the main street of Nambour. My grandfather passed away after going down to help the '74 Brisbane flood victims, put total strangers ahead of himself and worked so hard (cane farmer too, so you know he could work hard) to the extent his heart went. That was what people did. The landscape was full of great aunties, uncles, many cousins distantly related too, everyone knew each other and would lend a hand. What a magnificent country that was to come to as my mother brought us kids home from overseas where dad was from. We had 8 or 9 auto manufacturers at that time too! If you look at wealth/resources per capita back in 1971 it was Australia, Canada - then daylight. We had a truly diversified economy too then, strong agriculture, strong mining, strong industry and tertiary, lessened but still strong on the financial services. Now we are about 89th on the economic diversity index, slightly behind Uganda (lol). If a political party came along that restored that caring and strong Australia, I'd vote for it.

[Sprintey]

And before going back to the driving, here's a good wrap of the situation many Australians are facing, perhaps contributing to the darkness being noticed. Mark Bouris is the well known home loan guru, so he would have an opinion on the current state of things that would be close to the coal face:

https://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...7c3bdce1723cef

Never seen anything like it either. I worry for our young ones, trying to set up home ownership in such an environment.

[T3rminator]

Don't know what's more depressing, turning on the telly and watching "news" or reading some of these social topics....seems like a lot of unhappy people around.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Don't know what's more depressing, turning on the telly and watching "news" or reading some of these social topics....seems like a lot of unhappy people around.

The sad part is we havent seen the worst yet. I believe we will see things that will question the future of society.

[Sprintey]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-Aussies.html

The fellas with the RAM are attempting to fix the car they swiped in the carpark, which actually shows some concern (for the car, for themselves?). The lady observing seems to be the one who goes off.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Never seen anything like it either. I worry for our young ones, trying to set up home ownership in such an environment.

Its not going to get any better

Albo opens flood gates to Chinese students

International student visas on issue in Australia hit an all-time high 664,178 in September, which is around 110,000 higher than the pre-pandemic 2019 peak:

Earlier this year, the Albanese Government signed two migration pacts with India specifically designed to turbo-charge arrivals of Indian students and migrants into Australia.

Under the Mechanism for Mutual Recognition of Qualifications, “Indian qualifications will be recognised in Australia” for the purposes of study and general employment.

This mutual recognition of qualifications extends to secondary school, vocational, and university qualifications, many of which can be gained via India’s many sham ghost colleges.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese also signed the Australia-India Migration and Mobility Partnership Agreement, making it easier for Indian students, academics and professionals to live, study and work in Australia.

The Agreement includes the following ridiculously generous provisions for Indian ‘students’:

Five-year student visas, with no caps on the numbers that can study in Australia.
Indian graduates of Australian tertiary institutions on a student visa can apply to work without visa sponsorship for up to eight years.

India is the largest and youngest nation in the world, with around two-thirds of its 1.4 billion population aged under 30.

India’s unemployment rate of 10.1% in October is also around triple Australia’s, while Indian youth unemployment is sky high at more than 20%.

Thus, there is a gigantic underclass of younger and poorer Indians that will be desperate to flee to Australia to work and live long-term, which has now been made much easier by the Albanese government.

Not to be outdone, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese signed a visa deal with China during his latest visit that will grant easier access to Chinese seeking to study, work and live in Australia long-term:

“Anthony Albanese has given the green light to a new Australia-China visa deal to make it easier for visitors and business people to travel between the countries…”

“New reciprocal three to five-year multi-entry visas will kickstart business travel and help bring more Chinese students and tourists to Australia”.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/202...nese-students/

Anyone renting, might as well as start scoping out some nice real estate on the footpath of Flinders Street Station

Great time to own investment properties though, big demand for your product.

Roads are only going to get even worse, wonder how much an Indian MC licence costs

[kevino]

Can’t give you the India Mc thing
But can put you in touch with an Indian driver training school in Brisbane which will get you an Oz mc in a day or two

[CyberWasp]

Would you believe that the flood gates are well and truly opened.
You are all thinking how nice it is to have young people come here and study ect.
Late teens early 20's.
Problem is there are people rorting the system already. From one of the above countries.
Is it ok to be here on a Student Visa in your 60's and 70's. It is happening.
Would be good to see an age break up of these 600 thousand visas.

To tie this back into the thread tittle.
Drivers Licenses from other countries may be of a much lower standard or indeed faked but that is OK as there is a way to get it transferred to your Australian License.

Then they are on the roads, and then you have notable problems whilst driving, as outlined in this thread as some people are driving around with absolutely no clue. Very dangerous really.

[Sprintey]

Totally Cyberwasp - I think how unfair it was on my kids to have to do the 120hours logged in Vic + all the tests vs someone coming off a plane with much lesser requirements who then drives on the same roads - also any idea of standardising driver training goes right out the window.

[Sprintey]

Franco, this one was good too, it shows that historically the ALP has cut - like, halved - immigration in times of inflation. Rather than double it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments

[Franco Cozzo]

Talking about inflation, managed to get 98 for $1.99/L this afternoon, servo across the road was sitting at $2.25 for 91

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Would you believe that the flood gates are well and truly opened.
You are all thinking how nice it is to have young people come here and study ect.
Late teens early 20's.
Problem is there are people rorting the system already. From one of the above countries.
Is it ok to be here on a Student Visa in your 60's and 70's. It is happening.
Would be good to see an age break up of these 600 thousand visas.

To tie this back into the thread tittle.
Drivers Licenses from other countries may be of a much lower standard or indeed faked but that is OK as there is a way to get it transferred to your Australian License.

Then they are on the roads, and then you have notable problems whilst driving, as outlined in this thread as some people are driving around with absolutely no clue. Very dangerous really.

The biggest concern from Melbourne's subcontinental community is that they want easier and cheaper visa options to bring their parents over, at the moment it's cost prohibitive to get their parents here.

Creates an issue because you have an elderly person who hasn't contributed to our society suddenly living here for the last third of their life using taxpayer funded medical facilities at the expensive part of their lives.

I've got no problems with people wanting to look after their families, they're no different to any of us in that regard, but it's starting to pick up steam because their numbers and how they congregate in certain electorates, it makes their voice as a community politically powerful.

We need an infrastructure and services investment if we're going to play these games, as long as the money is there to deal with it I don't have a problem, I guess it only effects the working class though and no one cares about them in Canberra, we'll just have this underclass of citizen, kinda like the Dalits of the Indian caste system.

But when it takes an hour and 20 to get an ambulance, the hospitals are struggling we got hobo camps in Melbourne CBD, everyone on the road is aggro AF and people are being priced out of a place to live, I don't think bringing in an extra 600,000+ people is reading the room very well.

Now we recognise Indian qualifications and certifications I'm curious how much they cost me

I guess the upside is it's an opportunity to position yourself to take advantage of the decline, there's a dollar to be made on the way down the slippery slope we've jumped onto with gusto.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The biggest concern from Melbourne's subcontinental community is that they want easier and cheaper visa options to bring their parents over, at the moment it's cost prohibitive to get their parents here.

Creates an issue because you have an elderly person who hasn't contributed to our society suddenly living here for the last third of their life using taxpayer funded medical facilities at the expensive part of their lives.

I've got no problems with people wanting to look after their families, they're no different to any of us in that regard, but it's starting to pick up steam because their numbers and how they congregate in certain electorates, it makes their voice as a community politically powerful.

We need an infrastructure and services investment if we're going to play these games, as long as the money is there to deal with it I don't have a problem, I guess it only effects the working class though and no one cares about them in Canberra, we'll just have this underclass of citizen, kinda like the Dalits of the Indian caste system.

But when it takes an hour and 20 to get an ambulance, the hospitals are struggling we got hobo camps in Melbourne CBD, everyone on the road is aggro AF and people are being priced out of a place to live, I don't think bringing in an extra 600,000+ people is reading the room very well.

Now we recognise Indian qualifications and certifications I'm curious how much they cost me

I guess the upside is it's an opportunity to position yourself to take advantage of the decline, there's a dollar to be made on the way down the slippery slope we've jumped onto with gusto.

Please explain your last sentence.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by kevino

Please explain your last sentence.

He might be toying with the idea of hiring an Indian with a recently acquired truck license to drive his truck for $22/hr instead of an experienced Aussie at $40.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by smoo

He might be toying with the idea of hiring an Indian with a recently acquired truck license to drive his truck for $22/hr instead of an experienced Aussie at $40.

Or an Indian Aussie for $31/hr.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Or an Indian Aussie for $31/hr.

Yeah $31/hr ABN.

[Dr Smith]

I feel the far greater frustration on our roads often starts somewhere else but is sometimmes vented more easily while driving.

Blueoval's post summed up perfectly a range of issues we are dealing with on a personal level and we sometimes take out the frustrations that manifest from any one or some of those issues he listed.

I've run our business sine 1987 and it's been around since the late 1950's. I spent the first 15 years on the road every day and actually loved it (in Melbourne) and yes we had traffic issues however it was usually as a result of an accident, major event or roadworks that lasted a few weeks at best. What has happened in the last few years literally gets my blood pressure up and I also can get very short with other drivers on the roads. The tram superstops, bike lanes, changed road flows, huge construction zones now running for upto 5 years have all contributed to choking traffic movement. Our business needs 1 hour more per day minimum to complete the same number of deliveries as what took place say 5 years ago. Then add all the lost loading zones to outdoor dining areas.

I understand why better access for passengers was needed at tram stops and we needed some bike lanes but when you see how other cities have applied them you can see the cheaper, just take over a car lane, method was employed in Melb. We have lost whole road lanes, placed the rhs of vehicles closer to moving traffic, made left hand passengers need to look out for bike riders before opening their doors and for those with wheels chairs you either exit on the traffic side where a fully opened door can actually stop a passing vehicle.

If you leave home already frustrated or even angry, it doesn't take much more while on the road to raise that blood pressure even higher.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Driver attitude has a big part to play in this. Just have a look at the members on this very forum, especially those who post their frustrations regularly. And those who get frustrated at someone for doing something that's not even against the law! Or those who get frustrated because someone is not maintaining a speed on the road that the poster feels they should be.

Unfortunately, the days of drivers on the road having empathy for others has largely gone. It's now all about the individual and anything that impacts them going about their business.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Driver attitude has a big part to play in this. Just have a look at the members on this very forum, especially those who post their frustrations regularly. And those who get frustrated at someone for doing something that's not even against the law! Or those who get frustrated because someone is not maintaining a speed on the road that the poster feels they should be.

Unfortunately, the days of drivers on the road having empathy for others has largely gone. It's now all about the individual and anything that impacts them going about their business.

Yeah, nah, if joe bloggs cant keep up with traffic flow then they shouldnt be on the road as they clearly dont have confidence, its not their right to interrupt fllow and inconvenience the stream of cars behind them.

The amount of idiots that I see daily, whizzing past me as they dont want to be held up by the slow coach only to get in front and slow down to well below the flow of traffic is beyond a joke.

It isnt 1990 anymore, modern coaches are almost as quick as cars off the line.

Then you have the idiot driving along often oblivious to being well under the limit, until you go to pass them and they wake up and hit the throttle, because again they dont want to be behind the 'slow' coach, and leave you hanging in the right lane holding up the next poor bugger.
Or the idiot that could move past or drop back from beside you in double lanes that instead sits right next to you so if you have to move over for parked cars you cant.
Or the idiot that thinks driving slow saves fuel only to get stopped at every set of lights resulting in their engine running for longer due to the longer time it takes to complete their journey because they dont understand that sitting at the lights idling at 650rpm for 2 minutes is actually using more fuel than the extra 200rpm from moving at a faster pace and catching greens.
I could go on..

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Now we recognise Indian qualifications and certifications I'm curious how much

I've always wanted to become an Actuary.

[Sprintey]

Another G-Town run this time from about 7:30 thru 9am in traffic - it was mellow once again, and again nowhere near as mental as 2017-8-9. I'm wondering if this is economic activity declining, or reflecting that CBD's are seeing less workers/economic activity post pandemic (to be fair we did drive more than the CBD, did the industrial suburbs and main artery roads in/out).

What did we see? 3 cars go on red arrow. One entire truck with bobcat on back, go on red arrow. Harsh beeping of someone waiting to turn right on a single lane road. Most traffic just humming along.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Driver attitude has a big part to play in this. Just have a look at the members on this very forum, especially those who post their frustrations regularly. And those who get frustrated at someone for doing something that's not even against the law! Or those who get frustrated because someone is not maintaining a speed on the road that the poster feels they should be.

Unfortunately, the days of drivers on the road having empathy for others has largely gone. It's now all about the individual and anything that impacts them going about their business.

Expect empathy to run out when one operates a vehicle with no self awareness and a lack of consideration or courtesy towards fellow motorists.
Whether that be driving like all of bent 8s example above.
Holding up the entrance to a car park because someone wants to wait for a park by the door instead of walking an extra 20 metres.
Pulling v out infront if you in an open road speed zone only to slow down 2km down the road to pull into a driveway or side road. Etc.
I’m not justifying any form of aggressive behaviour in response to these just as selfish actions but people who are guilty of above shouldn’t be surprised if someone unhinged reacts.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by simon varley

my wife sees it in the schools too now. Schoolkids have always been little ****s, but the level of disrespect, selfishness, and the ability to sit down and shut the **** up, has reached a new level post-covid :(

There’s a reason why there are Facebook groups dedicated to teachers discussing how to leave teaching and what similar jobs they can easily transition into. There’s a reason why uni students are teaching classes alone.
Teaching has always had bad parts, but it also had some pretty sweet benefits to help make people put up with the bad parts of the job.
Now school executives expect more and more work from teachers but give them no extra time to do the work, some people making the decisions have no educational experience but have business management experience so for them the business side is important and the education side is second, students are horrible, the parents are worse and the pay hasn’t kept with inflation.
I’ve had a lot of connections to the education industry and I can say I hear about so many people leaving it wanting to leave.


On the topic of roads and driving, I’ve noticed there’s so many people who have to get around all traffic then as soon as they push to the front they drive below the limit.
I use to see this occasionally but now I see it several times a week. Sometimes several times a day. Self-centred driving is just the norm now.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Expect empathy to run out when one operates a vehicle with no self awareness and a lack of consideration or courtesy towards fellow motorists.
Whether that be driving like all of bent 8s example above.
Holding up the entrance to a car park because someone wants to wait for a park by the door instead of walking an extra 20 metres.
Pulling v out infront if you in an open road speed zone only to slow down 2km down the road to pull into a driveway or side road. Etc.
I’m not justifying any form of aggressive behaviour in response to these just as selfish actions but people who are guilty of above shouldn’t be surprised if someone unhinged reacts.

You dont even have to be unhinged, just fed up with the whole level of standards.
One of the benefits to driving heavy vehicles is the elevated driving position and view it gives you that enables you to read whats going on up ahead but with so many erratic drivers on the road its almost impossible to tell whats going to happen next.
When youre driving people around that have paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars for the service they expect a fast, comfortable ride which being able to read conditions enables you to do.
No good rolling up in a B11r Coach Concept and then jumping on and off of the brake for the entire journey.
We try to avoid lane swapping where possible as a rule so as to limit any inconvenience on those around us so trying to find a happy medium between client satisfaction and ****ed off motorists has become a big factor.

This morning I came up on a motorist doing 45 in a 60 zone, tapping the brake at each side road, so I assume they're looking for a street to turn down.
I have a clear right lane so I indicate to go around to avoid the inevitable almost stop when they find their turn, only problem is, as soon as I get half way up the side they accelerate a bit leaving me in the right lane.
Then the light ahead goes red so Im left stopped in the right lane and guess what, old mate pulls up next to me and because everyone else doesnt want to be behind me, they jump into the left lane, light goes green and old mate takes off, I go, everyone behind them goes and proceed to cut between old mate and me when they realise they're back to 45 tapping the brake.
This went on for kilometers, speeding up, slowing down, tapping brake, rinse, repeat.
In the end I dropped back in behind @ 45 to let the right lane get on with it, soon enough old mate hit the rh indicator, crossed 2 lanes and turned right..

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

You dont even have to be unhinged, just fed up with the whole level of standards.
One of the benefits to driving heavy vehicles is the elevated driving position and view it gives you that enables you to read whats going on up ahead but with so many erratic drivers on the road its almost impossible to tell whats going to happen next.
When youre driving people around that have paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars for the service they expect a fast, comfortable ride which being able to read conditions enables you to do.
No good rolling up in a B11r Coach Concept and then jumping on and off of the brake for the entire journey.
We try to avoid lane swapping where possible as a rule so as to limit any inconvenience on those around us so trying to find a happy medium between client satisfaction and ****ed off motorists has become a big factor.

This morning I came up on a motorist doing 45 in a 60 zone, tapping the brake at each side road, so I assume they're looking for a street to turn down.
I have a clear right lane so I indicate to go around to avoid the inevitable almost stop when they find their turn, only problem is, as soon as I get half way up the side they accelerate a bit leaving me in the right lane.
Then the light ahead goes red so Im left stopped in the right lane and guess what, old mate pulls up next to me and because everyone else doesnt want to be behind me, they jump into the left lane, light goes green and old mate takes off, I go, everyone behind them goes and proceed to cut between old mate and me when they realise they're back to 45 tapping the brake.
This went on for kilometers, speeding up, slowing down, tapping brake, rinse, repeat.
In the end I dropped back in behind @ 45 to let the right lane get on with it, soon enough old mate hit the rh indicator, crossed 2 lanes and turned right..

The mentality of these people think they have 'beaten' traffic this way. Like it's a game of up onesmanship. 1 position ahead of another some how means 'superiority' even if you brake check, cut in or abuse your way in front.

The sad thing is these people procreate and walk among us with this false sense of entitlement.

I find the WAY a person drives can say a lot about the person in general.

[GT1533]

I agree that there are a lot more aggressive drivers on the road these days. One of the interesting observations I have made is that it also depends on the type of car you are driving. If I am driving the wife’s CUV, I get a lot more instances of morons in Thailand specials tailgating me or pulling out in front of me, but if I am in my slightly beaten up Falcon Ute, same roads, same driving style, — it doesn’t happen.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by GT1533

I agree that there are a lot more aggressive drivers on the road these days. One of the interesting observations I have made is that it also depends on the type of car you are driving. If I am driving the wife’s CUV, I get a lot more instances of morons in Thailand specials tailgating me or pulling out in front of me, but if I am in my slightly beaten up Falcon Ute, same roads, same driving style, — it doesn’t happen.

Perception is a wonderful thing when the vehicle dictates the type of treatment you get on the roads.

As soon as someone gets into a 'Thailand special', they think they are king dingaling when it comes to position in traffic. I shake my head at the mentality.