No offers? Firm? WTF?

[Iggypoppin']

This is only annoying on VN 5 litres with "$15,000 FIRM NO OFFERS ONE OF A KIND WALKINSHAW BROCK BODYKIT BROCK HDT DIRECTOR RARE FACTORY SPECIAL MANUAL" and then you see photos of a primer bodykit on a clapped old VN SS worth maybe $1,500 at the most.
And I know that everybody on here has seen these cars advertized

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It’s all very well to say that they don’t want to waste their time, but what about my time?

but they are not wasting your time - you already know from the start, that you do not want their car. you will not ring them, or go around and see it, only to be told they will not take any money off. in reality they are doing you a favour

there are many unknowns when going trying to buy a 2nd hand car. a fixed price at least takes away one unknown and lets you decide whether you can or will be willing to afford it. if only their descriptions on condition were half as accurate

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The problem with people who say “firm, no offers,” is that they generally ARE tools, who have seriously overpriced what they are trying to sell.

Hardly.
I find that the people who put "firm" or "no offers" in their advertisement are the people who don't want any BS and have laid out the price they want. If you're happy with that price then contact the seller, if you're not then move on to someone else. These people are not tools!

Like Iggypoppin' said, there is that small minority who do overprice there cars because they think by adding this and adding that, it has somehow doubled the amount it would usually go for. Then you have the extremists who want $100,000 plus for a VN or VL. These people are generally tools.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It’s all very well to say that they don’t want to waste their time, but what about my time? I have given up searching on some sites, because they are just clogged with overpriced junk. If I go searching for something, I only want to receive results that represent genuine sellers.

You cannot be seriously suggesting that people who aren't willing to give YOU a bargain, or put FIRM or NO OFFERS in their advertisement aren't genuine sellers!

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The other thing that really bugs me, is when people advertise online, but then say “I won’t respond to emails.”
I have to ask myself “why?” Replying to an email is a simple way to convey lots of information, and you can send the same stuff to multiple enquirers, again, and again.
If I’m looking at a second-hand car (or boat), particularly a classic, I’m going to want lots of details.
To me, “I won’t reply to emails” translates as “I know you will have lots of questions, I intend to lie to you wherever possible, and yet I am so dumb that I risk contradicting my own lies if I commit them to an email…”

You're asking why?
Grab a pen and a piece of paper and use the phone. It's much more personal and if you have a lot of questions to ask then ask them then it puts the seller on the spot, and you'll be able to tell if he's feeding you garbage just to get you to come and have a look at his/her car.

To me, "I won't reply to e-mails" translates to "Here is my phone number, if you're interested and serious give me a call and we can chat, I'll answer any questions you have and if you're happy then we can arrange a time for you to come and have a look at the car."

Every person who sells a car lists their phone number for a reason, I cannot understand why you would e-mail someone about a car for sale when you can just phone them. Unless there is some strange circumstance where you cannot get to a phone ofcourse.

Plus by rejecting e-mails, you knock out most of the people from Nigeria.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

So if most will budge, then why say 'firm' or 'no offers'. I think most of these people would not pay full price when they look for a car. In fact, I can't understand ANYONE who would just walk up and pay the asking price without some form of negotiation. And this rubbish about wasting people's time? All they need to say is 'no' if they don't want to sell at the price offered. The seller just needs to know that their beloved car is ONLY worth what someone is willing to pay, not the other way around. By placing 'No offers' and 'Firm', it gives the impression that they are not serious in doing business at all.

For me, time is money. I don't want to entertain a conga line tyre kickers who are just going to lowball me or 101 scam artists who are overseas, email me and want to send me a dodgy cheque. I would have to make arrangements outside of my working hours (which cam be erratic) to entertain someone who may or may not be serious about buying my car.

If I went the private sale route, I'd put my low price up and firm. Because my time is money, I've never done it as I don't buy private so I've always opted to trade my current vehicle in on a new one.

[Molloy]

All of my ads say firm or no offers due to the fact I price it very fair then you get some clown ringing you up asking for 13,000 on somthing thats priced for 18,000 or the dicks that ask to swap for a hyundai and 2000 cash your way. I find it very insulting the price is the price, if they dont like it look else where. There is always someone out there that will give you the price your asking.

[fat289]

I have my XW Fairmont for sale & the price advertised is my bottom $ , had plenty of people contact me with STUPID offers thinking they have the RIGHT to bust my balls with the price .
The worst part is the're to lazy to even drive & have a look at it !!! , typical response is - oh thats to far for me to come look at it !!!
Morons !!!

The ones that have looked at it all say " wish I had the money " !!!

[aussie muscle]

funniest is watching Wheeler Dealers.

Mike buying a car - "I'm going to be cheeky and offer a thousand quid less than his asking price"

Mike selling a car - "Why do people always do that, offer less. everyone expects something off."

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The problem with people who say “firm, no offers,” is that they generally ARE tools, who have seriously overpriced what they are trying to sell. It’s all very well to say that they don’t want to waste their time, but what about my time? I have given up searching on some sites, because they are just clogged with overpriced junk. If I go searching for something, I only want to receive results that represent genuine sellers.
I find it particularly egregious when some ****** has a classic car rusting in his back yard, he somehow thinks that ripping all the bits off and dumping them in the boot has somehow increased its value, and he’s happy to leave it rusting there until somebody meets his price.

The other thing that really bugs me, is when people advertise online, but then say “I won’t respond to emails.”
I have to ask myself “why?” Replying to an email is a simple way to convey lots of information, and you can send the same stuff to multiple enquirers, again, and again.
If I’m looking at a second-hand car (or boat), particularly a classic, I’m going to want lots of details.
To me, “I won’t reply to emails” translates as “I know you will have lots of questions, I intend to lie to you wherever possible, and yet I am so dumb that I risk contradicting my own lies if I commit them to an email…”

If I see "firm, no offers" on something I know is top dollar or overpriced then they are the tools you describe or at best a speculator or someone fishing for that "more money than sense" type buyer. Most buyers are pretty savvy and don't go for these ads.

However, if I see "firm, no offers" on an ad priced at the cheap end of the scale then that tells me they are a genuine seller who has advertised their bottom line price from the get go. They are going for a quick hassle free sale.

"I won't reply to e-mails" to me means the seller is sick to death of being contacted by Nigerians, ships engineers at sea (a well known scam) or any other scenario. If you're interested just pick up the phone and talk to the guy. Then you can arrange an exchange of e-mails after the seller is happy you're genuine.

[TZENU]

If I ever (God forbid) advertised my XY, it would be a firm price... Why>???? Because I don't want to deal with the tyre kickers and dead beat dreamers, who in real life would not be able to spot a well built car if their life depended on it.. Having said that though for someone who was genuinely interested I would move the price....

[XR6Naranja]

I see there's two-three more ways to back up the OP, seems he got bombarded a bit.

Firstly by selling your car at say 16k but your lowest is 15k so you leave room for negotiations, you may possibly get more then your lowest, unless like posted up a bit more you've listed this before a couple times and haven't managed to sell it (But then maybe you're asking too much?).

Secondly I'd like to see it as business, your car may be listed 16k and there is another one on there for 14.5k, someone may look at your car and go, oh well he has an exhaust, I'll see if I can knock his down to as close as I can get it to 14.5k and if I like it I'll take it, we all know that very rarely that things like an exhaust will heighten the value but this is something to be considered.

Which leads to my third idea, as the OP said, he and many others find joy by negotiating a price, this isn't some little kick that he gets and only he gets, you sell your car for 16k, you want 15k, he wants to knock you down and you budge to 15.5k, he's happy that he's managed to knock you down and is likely to make the buy as in his eyes he just saved $500 which can go to having a tune or something..

All in all, when people get desperate they usually drop prices below their lowest, you might want 15k firm but then a month later really need to sell the car for a baby or something and drop it to 14k, you've then lost a months worth of potential buyers, and between 100-1000 dollars worth in a negotiation.

Just to cover myself, I have no mentality towards either party, in the end it is their choice, I don't classify them as anything for it, I'm usually the type to pay what is asked as I'm inpatient and usually take the opportunity while it's there, unless something says O.N.O and the seller is willing to go quite a bit less, there's no point.

[BadMax]

I'd be more inclined to think it's a way of culling time wasters who need to feed their ego. The admission by you saying you have to have a win is nothing but a phsycological disorder of sorts, you just need to 'beat' someone down.

I bet my left testicle you've never walked into a service station when petrol is at a $1.60 and tried to negotiate a better price? Why haven't you? Because you know you can get that little 'win', so you'll move onto someone who you percieve as being vulnerable.

How do you know that the 'frim price' car isn't the one you are after? You're more than likely a low baller who can't be bothered to get off your butt to inspect it but you'll try and negotiate over the phone.

I commonly call people like this 'wondos', just wondering around without much purpose busting peoples chops.

[The Yeti]

I find these guys fold the quickest, I think they must advertise this way casue they are hopless at negotiating

[tweeked]

So if you saw 2 similar cars, 1 for $16,000 and one for $15,000 firm, hasn't the second guy saved your time by allowing you to make your $14,750 offer on the first, and know that you can roll up and buy the other one, or use it for bargaining.

You want every car on the market to have a couple of grand thrown on top?

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by BadMax

I'd be more inclined to think it's a way of culling time wasters who need to feed their ego. The admission by you saying you have to have a win is nothing but a phsycological disorder of sorts, you just need to 'beat' someone down.

I bet my left testicle you've never walked into a service station when petrol is at a $1.60 and tried to negotiate a better price? Why haven't you? Because you know you can get that little 'win', so you'll move onto someone who you percieve as being vulnerable.

How do you know that the 'frim price' car isn't the one you are after? You're more than likely a low baller who can't be bothered to get off your butt to inspect it but you'll try and negotiate over the phone.

I commonly call people like this 'wondos', just wondering around without much purpose busting peoples chops.

A lot of insulting assumptions here..

Most people, and I say most not all, have a tiny bit of gladness, or joy when they get something cheap, whether it was on sale or they negotiated the price, this isn't much a disorder, and from a lot of build threads on this forum I'd say quite a lot of people are like this.

No one walks into the servo and tries to negotiate fuel because more then often the price isn't set by the person in the shop, different when the price is set by the guy selling the car and they actually have their own authority to change it, I don't believe the OP mentioned vulnerability here, he simply knows that the person wants to sell the car, and that he wants to buy one, and so in this case for him to get his normal kick out of buying a car or getting a car he likes at a lower price, he'll attempt to negotiate a price, this is almost like questioning why buy a lottery ticket, why attend power cruise, answer is because you'll never know what the outcome was if you didn't try..

Next two sentences are just insults nothing to say for that.

So if you saw 2 similar cars, 1 for $16,000 and one for $15,000 firm, hasn't the second guy saved your time by allowing you to make your $14,750 offer on the first, and know that you can roll up and buy the other one, or use it for bargaining.

You want every car on the market to have a couple of grand thrown on top?

This is assuming every seller wants $15,000 for their car minimum and inflate their price to 16,000.

But I do see your point, which is why I pointed out the reasons above for someone selling as a firm.

But more often then not, and especially since most of the guys on here are intelligent and reasonable, the price isn't unfair and is easily met with satisfaction.

[SSD-85]

I always believe in pricing competively. In other words, looking up all the other cars like mine for sale at the time & price it accordingly.

I dont believe in inflating a price in the hope of some knucklehead actually paying it. Or to play silly buggers knocking the price down. Make it realistic & everyone can walk away happy.

[Fiesta_Man69]

I have no problem with people saying 'firm' in the price. As anyone who has sold a number of cars would appreciate, there's nothing more that ticks you off when you organise to meet/a time convienient for everyone, go on an extensive test drive, everyone's happy with the car then they offer you 40%+ under the price: a few choice words are said along the lines of 'thanks for wasting my time' and you end up just frustrated with the entire process - a 'firm' in the ad, followed up by a reminder on the phone is one way to try and avoid this. If you don't like it, move on to the next ad.

[AU Mont]

Originally Posted by ray38l

I have turned down buying car's that were a lot cheaper then market average because they said no offers. it leaves me wondering why it is so cheap.

you sort of contradicted yourself there

wouldnt you be more worried about the car if they were willing drop the price further even though it was already cheaper than everyone else?

desperation to sell a car can sometimes mean its full of problems and theyre happy to see it go !!

[302 XC]

Rather interesting thread
I to am in the market for a newish , lets say late model ute
Ive looked for weeks at AU utes, and i gotta say theres some absolute dreamers out there
Now i know people have to ask something, but 10-11K for a povo pak AU styleside ???
Even 8K is out there, an XR6 AU or even a BA can be had for 8K
But that aside , theres alot to look at within a certain price range
So when its on price alone you have to ask various questions , and the main one is whats the sellers realistic, in the real world price
Then go from there,condition, reg, rwc

As for "$ XXX FIRM"
Kinda sorts the dreamers and tyre kickers from those genuinely cashed up

[RedHotGT]

I like to call it 'the dance' when someone is buying or selling the car...

Some of the questions are great... Example:
Buyer "What is the least you're willing to take for the car"
My answer "What is the most you're willing to pay for the car?"

What I do hate, is spending time on the phone to someone, who makes all the right noises and asks all the right questions, only for them to finish the conversation with "I'm not really in a position to buy a car at the moment"... Well why spend all the time on the phone?? Do you have nothing better to do?

If you want to buy a car - it's really quite simple.
1) Call the seller, make an enquiry and ask some questions that verify/legitimise the car.
2) Go and see the car - and take a deposit with you
3) If you like it and you want it, 'do the dance' and buy it. Place the deposit
4) Get the car out of there ASAP - it only takes one phone call from the next buyer to increase the offer, so don't waste time. Get it done.
5) Enjoy what you've bought.

It really is that simple.

(edit) PS - You generally get what you pay for.... So the cheapest ain't always the best.

[sgt_doofey]

The "I won't respond to e-mails" is to stop scammers. That's how they operate.

[dcstraight]

I think it ultimately depends on the type of car for sale. If it's a common 'run of the mill' car, then it's generally a simple process of elimination (depending how fussy you are on the finer details like options etc). A buyer's market.

If it's something a bit special - ie chasing a manual in a certain colour with a sunroof with low kms, has build number etc, then you're at the mercy of what is for sale. If you see a good price, inspect the car and all looks pretty good, then it appears you're happy and proceed with the sale.

On this occasion, the perceived "win" that was discussed prior is not in saving a couple of hundred by screwing the seller down, it's the acquisition of something perhaps a bit special (rare even) that you've been chasing for some time.

[Maka]

great thread guys, the way i see it is if your not a douchebag and the purchase price reflects the condition of the car and the price is fair why disrespect the seller by hitting them up for a lower price, on the other hand you rock up to inspect a car and the purchase price is $xxxx and the car is basically not up to scratch, i think its fair to say to the seller that there are a few probs with the car are you willing to knock off some money to cover the repairs but he turns around and says its priced accordingly? so depending on market price you'll know whether to stick around or get the hell outta there!

[Nic85]

I've done quite a bit of buying and selling cars over the years. I had a car for sale a couple years ago for $42k. In the ad I said, "No time wasters please" which to me would indicate to the outside world that if you don't have the money, please don't bother contacting me and wasting my time. Fair enough, right?

This donut emails me and asks me if I'll take a trade for a 2009 Yamaha R1 and $15k my way. I politely told him no, I wasn't interested in any trades. He then emails me back and offers me $35k. I mean, huh??

Another time I had a car for sale at $13,500, had someone email me and ask if I'd take $9k!!

The car at $42k was priced accordingly with what the market was suggesting as per other cars of the same ilk on Carsales, but mine was quite modified (tastefully). I know mods don't add value to a car, and in some cases they actually devalue a car, but in the performance market, a rebuilt engine and upgraded parts cost a lot of money and if car A has parts added, and car B doesn't, and both cars are the same price, you'd think car A will get the nod. The car at $13.5k was actually about $1k cheaper than the rest, and it was in near new condition.

I think the crux of the issue is that there'll be jokers on both sides. There's always the galahs who will low ball with a stupid offer (who knows why, my thought is that they have no scruples) Then on the flip side, there'll always be the people who will price their car too high, waiting on that perfect buyer to come along.

[2011G6E]

The ones that concern me more are the ones that say "no test drives, no tire kickers".
Really chuckles...you just want someone to turn up and not "kick the tyres" and check it out thoroughly, you want them just to fall head over heels in love with your baby and throw wads of cash at you immediately?

No test drives? I went to look at an XY wagon quite some years back that was for sale privately...it was nice, but certainly not a show winner or anything...12 slotters, worked 4.1 x-flow, lowered, nice interior, new white paint job. The guy said "no test drives"...and amazingly, not even if he went along with you!
Needless to say I walked away...

The best advert I ever saw was in a Just Bikes magazine. It was for a full custom Harley (much like you would see on American Chopper). He had a "firm" price of around $48,000...about right for a full custom job. However, he followed with a list of "requirements" that the new owner had to agree to, or no sale! They included stuff like always parking it indoors...not a garage, indoors (the photo showed it in a lounge room on a wooden base), never riding it in the rain, keeping it clean and shiny like it was then, agreeing to never ride it long distances, it had to be picked up and transported in a covered trailer, etc.

My mates in the motorbike club we were in at the time all said the same thing as I did...if we had the cash floating around, we'd buy it, sign all the papers, then turn up to pick it up, waiting for the most rainy, miserable day possible, then ride it off down the road, making sure to drive into every mudhole you could see on the edge of the road as the former owner screamed and had a hearty behind you...

[Polyal]

This can so easily go both ways.

At the end of the day I will (and have never) paid the advertised price for big objects. TV's/cars/etc etc...there is always room to move.

If you are talk about rare and special items, then that changes things a little, but never pay RRP.

Im certainly not aggressive about it, but its just a simple question, and if you never ask you will never know.

[TMC]

I bought my Territory from a guy who had "firm, no offers" He was selling it for the cost of the crippling balloon payment. It was owned by his business which was closing down. It probably wasn't the best thing for him to do as he was in a country town. He said he had a couple of people ring up for it in a month, but no one came for a drive to the country to see it. It was a genuinely good vehicle, it was about 4 grand undervalued and about $6500 less than what the caryards in Perth were asking, so I bought it. I didn't haggle as I understood his reasons for doing it. He even drove it to Perth to deliver it. We've got a great car now.

[barra240t]

This thread is sort of like the shoe is on the other foot, the public (you selling your car) are the "dealership" and someone is trying to get the best price out of you.

[_Ben]

IMO, advertise your car at 16k, someone offers 14, you counter with 15, you both end up happy.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

funniest is watching Wheeler Dealers.

Mike buying a car - "I'm going to be cheeky and offer a thousand quid less than his asking price"

Mike selling a car - "Why do people always do that, offer less. everyone expects something off."

I like that show for some reason. When he's buying a car he has a pretty inoffensive way of lowballing the customer and often explains why he's offering less. I dare say it's all set up off camera though.

I think his approach is a pretty good way of doing it. he knows what the market is for the model and knows how much it will cost him to do it up.

The best opportunity for getting a bargain IMO is on car sales with end of lease vehicles. The seller has to offload by a specific date and often has a trade in offer for the car. They are trying to scrap a little bit more. If you time it right then you can get a good deal.

[FPV+fteT3]

When I recently sold my T3 I had a firm price yes it was expensive but it is one of the best around and yes no emails, no test pilots, etc my car was a concorse show quality car, why would I want some wannabe thrashing it on a test drive who in most probability would not buy it but wanted to know what a 5.6L windsor goes like? Here's a suggestion if you want to know what they go like ask an owner for an fte experience most would oblige or find one in a car yard to thrash

The result of this add I only had 3 enquiries in 2 months all from car collectors. The person who bought it inspected the car went for a drive approx. 50-60k's with me as passenger we discussed money reached an agreement whilst travelling. When we arrived at my place he threw me the keys to his S/C FPV I drove his car the same route just for a blast in his new car, what a nice piece of kit they are.

The car was paid for in a few days but remained at my place for 2 weeks till the shyte weather cleared up so he could drive the car home he did not want to drive the car in the wet as all the under body cleaning was a PITA. So in short my TE is being well cared for by the new owner and still wont be driven in the rain, my add attracted the owner I wanted for my car.

I guess it also helps when you dont really have to sell but most of all I wanted to find someone who would take good care of my T3 the new owner has a collection of ford performance vehicles of varying eras. I guess when you are passionate about anything and you have invested a lot of time and money keeping that object in the best possible condition you would hope to attract someone with similar mindset when selling and placing boundries on your add weeds out the for want of a better word the undesirables.