Toyota to announce job cuts

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

54M? I thought it was 34M? At least that's all I saw from the Federal Gov.

Or have you discovered what the undisclosed 'Vic Gov' contribution was?

Rumours still persist that Holden is seeking 200M from the Feds.....but boy, that bit is taking a long time to get approved. I wonder if there's a problem approving it?


Lukeyson

It's a complex issue Luke because Holden's future funding is now split between Commodore and Cruze.
Both of them are on different product cycle timings and while the Commodore may be safe until 2018,
you can bet that Holden wants support for the 2014-2018 cycle and for Cruze II in 2015.....

Ford has its funding to take it through to 2016, probably doesn't need to revisit funding for another two years
but probably wants the deal sealed now so they can commit to another more fuel efficient group of vehicles.

I have no idea what is being planned by Ford, the castle has plainly stopped decision making for now
and thrown the whole issue back in the government's court, It's now up to the government to decide if
they want to invest in the Ford side of the car industry beyond 2016.....

All of our local manufacturers will remain for the next four years which coincidentally is longer that the next term
of government, who wants to be in power when the locals start closing their plants and laying off workers.....
I don't think the car companies are bluffing this time, the government needs to man up and either fund or say no.
Either way, a lot of decisions wil be made this year and the government knows just how much is riding on this,
it's the first time that all manufacturers have aligned their plans for funding to secure the local industry,
let's hope everyone gets what they want...

[Luke Plaizier]

Why isn't Ford's funding complex too - with the Territory and the Falcon as two different models? They've been on different development cycles too haven't they - albeit the same-'essential'-car with R&D funding spread out. Perhaps the 'synergy' between those two models makes that a different proposition to Holden. But then, Cruze isn't developed in Oz, other than tacking on a hatchback, so I don't see what money the Australia government would tip into Cruze other thankeeping the plant open. But then again, I'm no expert there, so I do see your point.

Toyota is talking loud about the high Dollar having an impact on them for their exports. So then why is the AUD so high?

I kinda got the feeling that Ford are trying to be agile WRT the AUD. They can see that the Aussie dollar is unnaturally high as a result of the resources boom - but keep in mind all our previous booms have been temporary. I recall a HACK interview on TripleJ where some 'expert' anticipated that this boom would be about 5 years. But others are anticipating that this Boom will last longer than that. The reality is out there somewhere, but itis defying prediction.

While the AUD is high, all export facing companies will struggle. Toyota is simply adjusting to that.

But Ford. What would they do? With One Ford rolling out, the favoured idea would be to build a world RHD large car in Oz and sell to RHD markets right? Falcon, Mondeo, Taurus, whatever. But with a continued high AUD, it would be far cheaper to fully-import than make in Oz. Yet with a low AUD building in Oz and exporting would indeed work.

Watch the AUD. I reckon that's the key. And whatever is driving that.

I agree with Govt support in the interim, and wish to see it continued, but I also believe that it should stop when the AUD and export conditions improve.


Lukeyson

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

The strong Aussie Dollar is a double whammy for us... it makes our exports more expensive, but encourages us to buy more from overseas as we are getting more bang for our buck. So many people buying from the US at the moment.
Is iron-ore, coal and natural gas exports our answer for everything?
Dont trust the Government that they know what they are doing, far far from it.

So we go back to a fixed exchange rate? Then you can lay 'all' the blame on the govt of the day. Or perhaps you would prefer a trade deficit as was the case up until recent times? Remember we have a large trade surplus - that is mostly a good thing.

The market mostly determines the exchange rate - high demand for our commodities and the comparative high interest rates have a large bearing on that.

We Aussies have become a pack of whingers - all care, no responsibility.

Next time you are buying something, how about you pay a little more for the Oz made one (where available) instead of the cheaper import? Perhaps 'we' are to blame.

For my part, I drive a Falcon. We also had a Territory but I needed something larger and couldn't get a local product. Unfortunately I had to go an import, but at least I tried my best.

****

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

54M? I thought it was 34M? At least that's all I saw from the Federal Gov.

Or have you discovered what the undisclosed 'Vic Gov' contribution was?
Lukeyson

Sorry, it is actually 53M.. I read somewhere Federal 34 & state 19

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by aualright

So we go back to a fixed exchange rate?

No, you're right, we shouldn't do that. In fact the last resources booms we had were all during fixed-exchange rate times.

I wonder what the exchange rate to China would be if they stopped pegging it artificially to the USD?

I have a Falcon and Territory in my driveway too.


Lukeyson

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Toyota is talking loud about the high Dollar having an impact on them for their exports. So then why is the AUD so high?
I kinda got the feeling that Ford are trying to be agile WRT the AUD. They can see that the Aussie dollar is unnaturally high as a result of the resources boom - The reality is out there somewhere, but itis defying prediction.
While the AUD is high, all export facing companies will struggle. Toyota is simply adjusting to that.
I agree with Govt support in the interim, and wish to see it continued, but I also believe that it should stop when the AUD and export conditions improve.
Lukeyson

You maintain some sort of unhealthy obsession with the high australian dollar being the bain of the australian car industry and exporters in general. If I am not mistaken, those coal miners in central queensland on over $100,000 a year and EXPORTING (now i cant highlight enough the word export) the majority to china, are exporting into a market where the chinese themselves dig up a large percentage of their own coal, using labourers on a lot less money. And yet, even without the export costs invloved, they still manage to sell alot of product.

The high australian dollar is the result of a large percentage of australians going out to work and working harder than those in other countries. As a result, they can now say to some Japanese, Korean or chinese guy, that I have worked harder than you over the last few years, so I will now pay you $400 for that large screen television, instead of the $1000 I would have paid you three years ago.

The australian dollar averaged less than 75 US cents in 2005 to late mid 2007 but that didnt seem to help any of the australian car manufacturers (in fact this was at a time when Holden were making their largest losses, and not to mention they also cut 1/3 of their local production during this time by getting rid of the night shift).

These whingers and moaners in the car industry have been complaining about something or another for the last 20 years about why they cant compete with others. Its exactly the same sort of responses I assume one would overhear if they were standing at a centrelink counter and they were told they would have to work (harder and smarter) or they would get cut off from government assistance.

Dont worry, on the buckleys chance that the australian dollar falls back to 75 US cents, and petrol sky rockets up to $2.25 per litre, then the manufacturers will be saying that the high cost of fuel is to blame. Oddly enough, have you ever considered that if the aussie went down to 75 US cents, there might be a light chance (and I am just saying that to appease you) we could save the $6 billion local car manufacturing industry. The only probelm is, australia would be paying an extra $10 billion a year to import fuel.

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by aualright

We Aussies have become a pack of whingers - all care, no responsibility.

Next time you are buying something, how about you pay a little more for the Oz made one (where available) instead of the cheaper import? Perhaps 'we' are to blame.

****

^^^ And there lies the problem.

I try and buy everything Australian when possible.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Struggo

^^^ And there lies the problem.

I try and buy everything Australian when possible.

obviously more australians dont!

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by CoupeXB

despite ending 2011 as Australia's top car seller

something stinks here. i don't think toyota needs to shed jobs.

[gtjohnny]

toyota are doing a study at the moment as to weather they can consolidate Sydney with altona i think there making room but thats just my opinion

[mik]

Originally Posted by Struggo

^^^ And there lies the problem.

I try and buy everything Australian when possible.

it`s not always as simple as that, unfortunately a percentage of the population are on low incomes, my own estimation would be a larger percentage, not every one can afford to buy the local product even if they wanted to,, i might also say that a lot of these low income earners work dam hard for what little they get just like the high income earners.
there is also the cost of living to take into account, each year it goes up as does some wages, i would be betting the percentage of wage rises for low income earners rises to a different rate to high income earners, i have no figure to back this up but that is my belief.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You maintain some sort of unhealthy obsession with the high australian dollar being the bain of the australian car industry and exporters in general.

Well, I do have a number of unhealthy obsessions, so perhaps you're right. But to say that the high AUD has no impact on exports is quite a head-in-the-sand comment.

I did find some humour in the 1-paragraph explanation for why the dollar is high though. Thanks for that.

So let me get this right - are you actively campaigning in these forums for support from other forum members to stop the government assistance, and have the local manufacturers all shut down?

Would you walk away satisfied if that were the case?


Lukeyson

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by gtjohnny

toyota are doing a study at the moment as to weather they can consolidate Sydney with altona i think there making room but thats just my opinion

Sydney?? What manufacturing operations does Toyota have in Sydney??

[gtjohnny]

none its sales marketing and spare parts they told us yesterday that there considering shutting the operation there down and want to move it hear ....oh and the 350 jobs wont just be from guys on the line it will be from all over im in the parts warehouse and were expecting to lose some people to

[BLUEYBA]

I think they may need a small tariff somewhere between 5-10%.

[Dr Smith]

Probably mentioned before however Brazil is in the same boat, high currency, mining boom, explosion in imported Asian built cars, ..so they protected their car industry.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/139856/b...sian-invasion/

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You maintain some sort of unhealthy obsession with the high australian dollar being the bain of the australian car industry and exporters in general. If I am not mistaken, those coal miners in central queensland on over $100,000 a year and EXPORTING (now i cant highlight enough the word export) the majority to china, are exporting into a market where the chinese themselves dig up a large percentage of their own coal, using labourers on a lot less money. And yet, even without the export costs invloved, they still manage to sell alot of product.

One huge difference is that the mining sector doesn't have some cheap competitor coming in and undercutting it, the mining sectors "products" are sold on world markets with sometimes preset, negotiated prices or if not then on fluctuating market prices where surprisingly no competitor suddenly jumps in and undercuts them. Sure the world prices also fluctuate but again i don't think mining has anywhere near the competition that our local car manufacturers have. Why don't some oil producing nations suddenly drop their prices by 20% and take over world supply completely, they could sell more and work on the higher volume lower margin theory. But of course oil is one market where you can with hold sales and increase your profits.

If China could supply all it's coal requirements from internal sources why would it bother importing and paying "world commodity prices".

[GK]

I have a friend who is an engineer at Toyota, has been for about 10 years.

He told me late last year that Toyota Aus runs a 100 million a year loss on its manufacturing arm here. Overall though, they are in the black from the goodwill of Australians buying across the product range from a manufacturer that actually builds here.

He was sure that if Toyota didn't have a factory here, then they would not make anywhere near as much a profit as they do. From Toyota's perspective, the 100mill per year is an overall investment.

He also told me around the time of the pay dispute, that it would indeed be touch and go whether Toyota would be able to continue manufacturing here.

GK

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You maintain some sort of unhealthy obsession with the high australian dollar being the bain of the australian car industry and exporters in general. If I am not mistaken, those coal miners in central queensland on over $100,000 a year and EXPORTING (now i cant highlight enough the word export) the majority to china, are exporting into a market where the chinese themselves dig up a large percentage of their own coal, using labourers on a lot less money. And yet, even without the export costs invloved, they still manage to sell alot of product.

Aussie export deals are negotiated in US dollars not Aussie dollars Bob, therefore,
our mining companies are losing around 30% of their income but equally make it
back due to the extortionist prices coal mines are charging Asian power companies and steel works.

The high australian dollar is the result of a large percentage of australians going out to work and working harder than those in other countries. As a result, they can now say to some Japanese, Korean or chinese guy, that I have worked harder than you over the last few years, so I will now pay you $400 for that large screen television, instead of the $1000 I would have paid you three years ago.

The high Aussie dollar is a result of Australian government paying off debts while every other country ran them up...
Our Reseve bank also has a lot to answer fro by upping interest rates at every return when they know we have a two speed economy.
Interest rates that have a 4 in them instead of a 6 or 7 would make a heck of a difference to our competitiveness and to people's
mortgages as well, another opportunity blown for people to share in the wealth.

The australian dollar averaged less than 75 US cents in 2005 to late mid 2007 but that didnt seem to help any of the australian car manufacturers (in fact this was at a time when Holden were making their largest losses, and not to mention they also cut 1/3 of their local production during this time by getting rid of the night shift).

All due to the cost of Zeta commodore and development costs of products cancelled by GMNA at the 11th hour,
namely Impala which still hasn't been replaced. I don't normally defend Holden but they were badly let down by GMNA.

These whingers and moaners in the car industry have been complaining about something or another for the last 20 years about why they cant compete with others. Its exactly the same sort of responses I assume one would overhear if they were standing at a centrelink counter and they were told they would have to work (harder and smarter) or they would get cut off from government assistance.

Unlike you some here believe in a local car industry.......

Dont worry, on the buckleys chance that the australian dollar falls back to 75 US cents, and petrol sky rockets up to $2.25 per litre, then the manufacturers will be saying that the high cost of fuel is to blame. Oddly enough, have you ever considered that if the aussie went down to 75 US cents, there might be a light chance (and I am just saying that to appease you) we could save the $6 billion local car manufacturing industry. The only probelm is, australia would be paying an extra $10 billion a year to import fuel.

The high Aussie dollar actually makes importing parts for Aussie built car much cheaper,
Ford and GM gearboxes have effectively become 30% less costly....

[bad moon rising]

I thinks its going to be a sure thing that ford aus will be axing a lot of jobs in the next few years.
they have only been running at around 60% capacity for a while now and a lot of workers at the plant are only working 3-4 days a week.
since fords new goal is to have "one ford products" its obvious that the falcon and territory are on borrowed time, but unfortunatley that is the way of the world now, its cheaper to build in thailand and south africa.
expect to be seeing explorers and taurus in the showrooms one day again, perhaps they will have territory and falcon badges but that wont hide the fact that they are not designed and built in Aus.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bad moon rising

I thinks its going to be a sure thing that ford aus will be axing a lot of jobs in the next few years.

Ford has just said that the $103 million package will add 300 jobs....

they have only been running at around 60% capacity for a while now and a lot of workers at the plant are only working 3-4 days a week.

The plant is set at 209/day, Ford controls costs by having down days, that's the reverse application of adding production with overtime..
Some here are reporting that LPG engines have ramped up so orders must be coming, shame about the hail storm that hit Broady...

since fords new goal is to have "one ford products" its obvious that the falcon and territory are on borrowed time, but unfortunatley that is the way of the world now, its cheaper to build in thailand and south africa.

"One Ford" refers to using all of Ford's resources, profits are made at the supplier level, not the production floor.
There is wiggle room for regional products and D/E platforms are now niche products that really don't warrant a global platform.

expect to be seeing explorers and taurus in the showrooms one day again, perhaps they will have territory and falcon badges but that wont hide the fact that they are not designed and built in Aus.

But not in the next four years, who knows what US Fords will or won't be available then......

[Franco Cozzo]

Tarrifs shouldn't be increased, if it wasn't for competition from imported manufacturers, Ford and Holden would probably still have air-con as an option on the Falcon and Commodore, and a CD player would be optional too.

Its a good thing, it means Ford and Holden have to pull the finger out and compete in every area to sell their products, which is a big win for the customer because they always have to be on the ball and up to date or they lose business. Plus why should I have my choice taxed because Ford and Holden don't make anything suitable for me in Australia?

If anything, they should force government departments to buy new Australian cars, they of all people should be supporting Australia.

Another idea is drop the 8% "luxury car" tax from Australian made cars, but keep it for imports or something.

[bobthebilda]

jpd
Unlike you some here believe in a local car industry.....
The high Aussie dollar actually makes importing parts for Aussie built car much cheaper,
Ford and GM gearboxes have effectively become 30% less costly

Just a few issues to cover. Miners may get paid in $US, but the majority of it gets converted back to $OZ to pay the australian workers, suppliers etc, so what they lose in the swings, they pick up in the roundabouts.


Its odd that you say that i dont believe in the local industry but in the same breath tell me that Ford and GM import the gearboxes. Ford and Holden have the choice to import parts with little or no tariffs, but people shouldnt have a choice to import cars under the same conditions? The only thing I dont beleive in, is hypocrisy.

[bad moon rising]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford has just said that the $103 million package will add 300 jobs....

why add 300 jobs why not let the poor bastards who currently work at the factory work a decent 38 hours week so they can actually pay a mortgage instead of losing there homes



"One Ford" refers to using all of Ford's resources, profits are made at the supplier level, not the production floor.
There is wiggle room for regional products and D/E platforms are now niche products that really don't warrant a global platform.

the falcon doesnt even make it into the top 10 sales charts any more, as far as profit goes why poor millions of dollars into 2 models (falcon and territory) when there only major purchaser is australia,it will be more profitable for them to use an american designed car and give it a slight rework for Aus.

But not in the next four years, who knows what US Fords will or won't be available then......

i agree with this one, america is in deep crap at the moment. but at the end of the day its all about money and making the biggest profit they can and i dont think it will be justifiable for the ford motor company to keep revamping these models for aus when the sales figures are so low. the quality isnt there anymore with falcon and territory, problem they have had since ba and sx are still there a/c not working, diff bushes wearing out (in as early as 20,000km) oil leaks etc these are issues that have been going on for nearly 10 years now

i think ford have been hoping that brand loyaty will keep them going but everyone is moving to jap and korean cars where the quality is getting better with each model (generally speaking)

if people are really dead set in saving ford aus jobs and the falcon and territory its easy just buy a new one. its up to us really and if we lose it we can only blame ourselves

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Probably mentioned before however Brazil is in the same boat, high currency, mining boom, explosion in imported Asian built cars, ..so they protected their car industry.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/139856/b...sian-invasion/

This is EXACTLY what our government needs to do.. If you can afford a new car & want inported stuff, then pay the extra tax!!! Simple really!


We just need the government to grow some balls!!

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Tarrifs shouldn't be increased, if it wasn't for competition from imported manufacturers, Ford and Holden would probably still have air-con as an option on the Falcon and Commodore, and a CD player would be optional too.

Its a good thing, it means Ford and Holden have to pull the finger out and compete in every area to sell their products, which is a big win for the customer because they always have to be on the ball and up to date or they lose business. Plus why should I have my choice taxed because Ford and Holden don't make anything suitable for me in Australia?

If anything, they should force government departments to buy new Australian cars, they of all people should be supporting Australia.

Another idea is drop the 8% "luxury car" tax from Australian made cars, but keep it for imports or something.

there needs to be a happy medium on tariffs Big Damo, my own opinion is we are still at a disadvantage, finding the happy medium is the hard part, manufacturing in general wanting to shift off shore must surely tell us the playing field is not in our favour.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Probably mentioned before however Brazil is in the same boat, high currency, mining boom, explosion in imported Asian built cars, ..so they protected their car industry.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/139856/b...sian-invasion/

And the common thread in the story is as stated by the economist -

Brazilian economist, Antonio Carlos Alves, told AFP the tariffs were an “unfortunate” measure, and evidence of poor government economics and the lobbying strength of the local industry’s ‘four sisters’: Fiat, Ford, General Motors and Volkswagen.

Its the incumbent auto makers in any country that want tarriffs put up, to protect their investments. They dont do it to protect the interests of the population. Without tariffs, the car companies wouldnt be able to play countries off against each other.

So to make it all simple, Holden now has sell its Omega exports to Brazil for 30% more retail, because its sister company (who would be selling the car for Holden) in brazil lobbied the government to increase tariffs to protect its brazil factory.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

The high australian dollar is the result of a large percentage of australians going out to work and working harder than those in other countries.

Thanks for the laugh There's a lot more to it than that; if that were so, we could all punt Forex on each nation's productivity reports...

Also, they are working so hard, our productivity is falling.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

And the common thread in the story is as stated by the economist -



Its the incumbent auto makers in any country that want tarriffs put up, to protect their investments. They dont do it to protect the interests of the population. Without tariffs, the car companies wouldnt be able to play countries off against each other.

So to make it all simple, Holden now has sell its Omega exports to Brazil for 30% more retail, because its sister company (who would be selling the car for Holden) in brazil lobbied the government to increase tariffs to protect its brazil factory.

except Holden pulled out... I guess to Brazil it's workers are more important then Australian workers.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

And the common thread in the story is as stated by the economist -



Its the incumbent auto makers in any country that want tarriffs put up, to protect their investments. They dont do it to protect the interests of the population. Without tariffs, the car companies wouldnt be able to play countries off against each other.

So to make it all simple, Holden now has sell its Omega exports to Brazil for 30% more retail, because its sister company (who would be selling the car for Holden) in brazil lobbied the government to increase tariffs to protect its brazil factory.

Well it would seem ALL the auto makers are ALL incumbent in ALL car making country's becuase they ALL have tarriffs!! If you can't beat them, join them!!!