Bell St Melbourne, speed dropped to 60

[Dash_XR]

Fair point.

[TheSneakiness]

I don't mean to be blunt about it however with more driver aids coming out in every car a lot of drivers don't pay half as much attention to the road as they used to cause the car will beep/chime/ring if something is wrong. It's like manufacturers are saving stupid people from doing stupid things and/or killing other drivers for inattention.

[tranquilized]

Speaking of variable speed limits and the unnecessary lowering of speed limits reminded me of this example which pretty much sums up what the relevant authorities think of the speed/safety balance;

Sydney Road Brunswick - one of the most clogged streets in all of Melbourne. With cars parked on the side the road isn't wide enough for traffic to overtake the trams, so progress along here is usually painfully slow - stop behind the tram at a green light, wait for passengers, light goes red, tram gets a green, wait for the red, repeat at next intersection.

This road had a variable speed limit. Between 12midnight and 6am (from memory) the speed limit was 60, all other times it was 40. Sensible arrangement.

Melbourne locals may remember that terrible accident some time back when the Italian tourist was riding down Sydney Road one sunny afternoon. Someone car doored him - I heard it was a young child in the back seat. Opened the door right in front of him, and he ends up under the truck that was idling along beside him at about 30kmh and dies.

So what measures do you think they take to try and avoid these horrible accidents from happening again in the future?

Yep, they reduced the speed limit between 12 and 6am to 40kmh. Problem solved!

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

Very good question. About 12 months ago all the 4 lane 70 zones got dropped to 60 around my area too and were littered with private cameras the months following.

Dead straight roads with parking either side and median strip in the middle.

Are these decisions getting voted in or made on the whim of a few sheltered individuals?

Cars are getting safer and better equipped every year too so why do we need to drive slower?

Vicroads have an aim to reduce the road toll to zero. And these speed limit reductions are part of that aim.

But they forget about the drivers that don't give way at give way or stop signs, and run into passenger doors killing people. It happens. And those changing lanes when unsafe. Speed cameras don't detect these offenders. So their zero road toll agenda will never happen for these reasons alone.

Reducing speed limits to make it safer for these morons not giving way only encourages them further. Just like pedestrians where speed limits have been reduced to 40kph or less; they now simply walk out onto the road regardless of what's coming, not thinking that the driver may be glancing at their speedo at the wrong time to avoid a speed camera fine.

I'm glad I lived most of my life in an era when more common sense prevailed.

[mik]

To be fair bell street does have a bit of stop start traffic, and more often than not , 70 kph would be nice if you could attain that speed for any distance, my own preference....... i would rather sit on 60 kph or even 50 kph if the bloody traffic would just keep moving at a steady pace rather than sudden violent braking spurts,

even if they co-ordinated the traffic lights around melbourne for better traffic flow.......... it is impossible to get a good result for all the god damned railway crossings around the joint.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by mik

To be fair bell street does have a bit of stop start traffic, and more often than not , 70 kph would be nice if you could attain that speed for any distance, my own preference....... i would rather sit on 60 kph or even 50 kph if the bloody traffic would just keep moving at a steady pace rather than sudden violent braking spurts,

even if they co-ordinated the traffic lights around melbourne for better traffic flow.......... it is impossible to get a good result for all the god damned railway crossings around the joint.

The section which has been reduced to 60kph from 70 is relatively free flowing during the day. I find 70 kph along this Bell St section quite realistic at these times. Reducing it to 60 kph will cause more to exceed the new speed limit and increased unsafe lane changing to get around slower vehicles.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Vicroads have an aim to reduce the road toll to zero. And these speed limit reductions are part of that aim.

That alone highlights their flawed logic. The only way to reduce the road toll to zero is if no one uses it.

Best you can do is make it as safe as possible and we already have one of the safest roads in the world I think.

[Jack960]

I drive that road every day to and from work and I never bothered with the limit because I never get much over 50 anyway. Traffic is woeful out there

[MrZ]

Our main road speed limits are high by international standards. In the USA, for example, a 80 km/h limit on a main road is unheard of. Generally, main roads there are either 35 or 40 mph (56-64 km/h). Our 60 falls right in the middle of this range.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Vicroads have an aim to reduce the road toll to zero. And these speed limit reductions are part of that aim.

But they forget about the drivers that don't give way at give way or stop signs, and run into passenger doors killing people. It happens. And those changing lanes when unsafe. Speed cameras don't detect these offenders. So their zero road toll agenda will never happen for these reasons alone.

Reducing speed limits to make it safer for these morons not giving way only encourages them further. Just like pedestrians where speed limits have been reduced to 40kph or less; they now simply walk out onto the road regardless of what's coming, not thinking that the driver may be glancing at their speedo at the wrong time to avoid a speed camera fine.

I'm glad I lived most of my life in an era when more common sense prevailed.

I don't believe for a second VicRoads wants to reduce the road toll to zero. Their main aim is to justify their existence and maintain funding. They have to appear relevant and required.

If they were serious about improving road safety and removing traffic jams, they would widen Bell St all the way to the Tulla interchange, with a dedicated peak hour bus lane in each direction, with provision for a bike lane. In areas of commerce and retail activity, provisions would be made for service lanes with parking to remove the impact of parking on the flow of traffic. Except such a move requires the use of common sense and proper use of taxpayer funds.

Sadly, common sense left sometime in the early 90's.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by MrZ

Our main road speed limits are high by international standards. In the USA, for example, a 80 km/h limit on a main road is unheard of. Generally, main roads there are either 35 or 40 mph (56-64 km/h). Our 60 falls right in the middle of this range.

Just like there are a lot of 50km/h roads in Europe where people often exceed 100km/h. A lot of European highways are also sign posted at 90km/h. Doesn't stop the vast majority of people doing 130km/h+.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Jack960

I drive that road every day to and from work and I never bothered with the limit because I never get much over 50 anyway. Traffic is woeful out there

If speed limits were set for peak hour, then we might as well set many highways to 20km/h.

[revcore]

I wouldn't mind betting those fools at the pedestrian council have had a helping hand in forcing the change in speed limits too.

[last fairlane]

I can remember when the speed limit was 30MPH

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by irish2

Just like there are a lot of 50km/h roads in Europe where people often exceed 100km/h. A lot of European highways are also sign posted at 90km/h. Doesn't stop the vast majority of people doing 130km/h+.

Posted speeds should always just be a guide, and not a strict absolute limit as such. In the USA, a street like Bell St, would have a 40 mph (64 km/h) limit. 70 is a tad high.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I don't believe for a second VicRoads wants to reduce the road toll to zero. Their main aim is to justify their existence and maintain funding. They have to appear relevant and required.

http://www.roadsafety.vic.gov.au/

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

http://www.roadsafety.vic.gov.au/

That has the hallmarks of a Nation Building Authority "push"

I just read the discussion paper and I want to vomit. The amount of spin and outright bovine fecal matter in it is staggering.

Speed and red light cameras which have shown a 47% reduction in casualty crashes on the camera leg at intersections

Where the hell did they pull that number from??? It sounds like the cliched "clinical studies prove..." line about all manner of beauty products.

Every 5 km/h over the 60 km/h limit doubles your risk of crashing: Excessive speed is involved in nearly 1 in 4 deaths, or 55 deaths a year according to Victoria Police

What about the other 75% of fatalities???

I'm not having a dig at you Silver at all, its just that my tolerance for govco ineptitude and spin has worn very thin and I take anything that comes out of their mouths and anything from their official spokesmen (the media) with a shrinking grain of salt.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by output

yep they have their own agenda... they want us out of cars and stuffed into trains and buses like the worthless sheep they consider us to be...

multi front attack on our way of life... frustrate and punish u so much u give up...they tax us, fine us, contain us...its a war on us and we dont even know it...

Australia in the 21st century...the date may have changed but our way life is still in the 20th century.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I'm not having a dig at you Silver at all, its just that my tolerance for govco ineptitude and spin has worn very thin and I take anything that comes out of their mouths and anything from their official spokesmen (the media) with a shrinking grain of salt.

I agree with you. But whatever is said to show how ridiculous their reasonings are, doesn't do anything to change their minds. Bottom line is the speed/red light cameras and their revenue, as technology exists for this. But there is almost nothing to apprehend drivers for other offences and poor driver practices except for drink/drugs, as police cars are scarce on the roads these days. So they concentrate on the speed mantra.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I agree with you. But whatever is said to show how ridiculous their reasonings are, doesn't do anything to change their minds. Bottom line is the speed/red light cameras and their revenue, as technology exists for this. But there is almost nothing to apprehend drivers for other offences and poor driver practices except for drink/drugs, as police cars are scarce on the roads these days. So they concentrate on the speed mantra.

The only way to change people's behaviour on the roads is by education, not by punishment. But education yields no financial reward for govco, so that won't happen. All punitive measures seem to be doing is turning a lot of the driver base into speedo watchers that create a greater road hazard than so-called speeding.

There are ways to instigate real change though...

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by joolz

Haha used to be an 80 zone no more than 10 years ago... All to protect the children and make it safer to sit speed cameras along that $$$tretch...

I remember when it was the old 75

[Trump]

Now that the signage is up, the net effect thus far has been negative. The mouth breathers that used to sit on 60 now sit on 50. Driving to site this morning was a painful experience. I don't know what childbirth is like, but this would be close in my estimation

[Full_Monty]

I attended the Victoria state community "consultation" on their plan for reducing the road toll on Tuesday night, to hear what bull**** they are thinking up (other than driver training and education. Their slogan Towards Zero: is a fascade...All they pushed was speed kills.
A council rep for Port Phillip got up and talked about how they are blanketing 40kph across their municipality, with the long term aim of reducing it to 30kph!

we had very little time for questions from the floor to the honorable panel of dip****s, Only 4 people were allowed to ask a question of the panel in front of the group of some 250 people. Then we were asked to form into table groups and discuss the following 3 topics, with the following pre conceived areas of discussion - rather than hearing our real thoughts and ideas we were steered into only talking about the following

Safer Roads : • Reduced speed limits • Perceived dangers as a pedestrian, cyclist and motorist
Safer Cars: Told all about these wonderful technologies, that are really only invented as a last ditch save for distracted unconscious drivers • Lane leaving detectors •Emergency brake • Blind spot sensors
Safer People: •Restricting new drivers from night time driving after 12pm (a restriction on freedom) •Compulsory Breatho locks? Not just for offenders • Motorcyclists mandatory protective wear...


That was all they wanted to gather data on!

I absolutely **** canned them on every topic, advising that uneducated drivers know no better and will of course infringe laws, therefore still be a risk and a revenue stream.

I advocated mandatory defensive driver training for new license tests, with a subsidised training system for existing drivers, on their next license anniversary or the month of? then a refresher every 10 years after...

They would not even take it on board, saying that their studies show defensive driver training increases risk in certain demographics, because they'll want to go and "test" their cars on the road...

Completely arsed about way of tackling the issue...It was clear to me then that they just want to further tighten laws to create more congestion, frustration and keep the revenue streams flowing. Make no mistake it's a fascade.

250 people die on our roads per year, with a population of 24? Million

Germany has fewer deaths, despite open speed limits on certain freeways, a Population of 82 Million!!!! effectively 1/4 deaths per capita.

BUT they have extensive driver education! Including practical hands on defensive driving, First aid training, education on the impacts of distraction, alcohol, drugs, fatigue etc...Making them informed and better drivers! Much much less likely to do stupid **** on the roads.

Instead we have this rudimentary **** weak system that relies in kids learning from mum & dad who have had no training since getting their license some 40 years ago....Then pass a basic test involving some current road laws and reverse parking. On your way son, lassy no further training for the rest of your days...

BTW both my wife and I have done defensive and advanced driver training, along with track days...Neither have had an accident (at fault or not) in 20+ years on our crazy Melbourne roads.

Ive gone 7+ years without an infringement now, despite driving a modded xr6T and now a GT335

I put this down to driver training, education resulting in a change of attitude.
I honestly believe it would work.

[Trump]

Well said Mr Monty

[MrZ]

Full Monty - our death toll last year was over 1100. I have no idea where you got the 250 figure from.

By the way, wasn't it a German girl who crashed into and killed a whole bunch of cyclists a few years ago? So much for their superior training!

[marty351]

Road safety groups have a narrow focus to suit the agenda they have agreed upon.
When somebody comes along with ideas different to their own, they will be ignored, and in some cases shot down never to be heard from again.
Reduced speed limits may well save lives, but when the blind lead the uneducated population, usually the majority, chaos on our roads will ensue. The best thing Vic roads and the TAC could do is to run driver education programs backed up with educational advertisements, thus helping correct poor knowledge of road laws.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by MrZ

Full Monty - our death toll last year was over 1100. I have no idea where you got the 250 figure from.

By the way, wasn't it a German girl who crashed into and killed a whole bunch of cyclists a few years ago? So much for their superior training!

The Victorian road toll was approximately 250

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

The Victorian road toll was approximately 250

He was quoting the Australian road toll, though, because he said "250 out of a population of 24 million".

If he meant the Victorian toll, he would have said "250 out of 6 million".

[outback_ute]

For a brief period there was an official policy of reducing all 70 zones to 60 because they were "too confusing", you will have noticed many 70 limits have gone.

I gather Bell St might have been a separate case but it doesn't make it easier to like another thing that makes it take longer to get places. Bell St is the only decent east-west connecting road in the northern suburbs until you get to the Ring Road.

[mik]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

For a brief period there was an official policy of reducing all 70 zones to 60 because they were "too confusing", you will have noticed many 70 limits have gone.

I gather Bell St might have been a separate case but it doesn't make it easier to like another thing that makes it take longer to get places. Bell St is the only decent east-west connecting road in the northern suburbs until you get to the Ring Road.

one speed limit is not a bad thing i reckon , remember how the western ring road used to be with the limits changing all the time, ........different in nearly every section at times and almost every single peak hour you could bank there would be at least one rear ender without fail holding up traffic for miles,

not to mention the scarcity of speed signs on some sections you could have gone for k`s without seeing a bloody speed sign ,

and if you happened to be checking your mirrors or along side a semi at the time and missed the limit for that area you could have been in fine paying territory.
For a huge distance on the ring road it was cars speeding up to a limit and then slowing down for the next, and it was quite unpredictable and sudden at times.

Thank christ the dudes controlling the limits finally learned to a bit sensible with the changeable speed signs most of the time these days .