351 vs 360 vs 350

[OLDFORDNUT]

in standard form you cant even consider the 360 it was a slow reving truck motor ,you had to change a few things to make it rev,the 350 and 351 were powerful and good reving engines from factory , ive had a few 360;s in my valiant days and the 318 would blow the doors off a 360 in standard Valiants, boy they were gutless until you did some mods.now before you mopar boys get your knickers all twisted after a few easy mods the 360 could really hammer,but im assuming this thread is about factory cars.

[Badcooky]

The original ask was a stronger and reliable donk well in standard trim i'd go the Mopar.
It is what Ford copied in head design..ie the hemi and was very reliable.
This fellow Quasi also has a strong pointor two.
Stock the Mopar was god.

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by Badcooky

Stock the Mopar was god.

The 360 god? never. 2bbl 175bhp net (72) or 4bbl 220bhp net (76) doesn't arrouse any lust.

340, thats a totaly diffrent story (esp in 6pac guise).

[noosacuda]

360's were big torquey motors in stock condition,350 Chevs are over rated,351's are too heavy.
....and a 340,4 speed 6 Pak Pacer test mule that never existed scared the test driver s'less!

[knighty01]

well well, this is interesting, in less then 24 hours we have rather varying results from forum to forum, maybe a tad biassed but here goes. . .

note, i've focussed on aussie dominated forums, the tables may be turned completely in a global or US forum



heres the results so far (might have to register)



http://www.gmh-torana.com/forums/ind...&mode=show&st=



350 chev [ 5 ] [50.00%]

351 clevo [ 1 ] [10.00%]

360 mopar [ 4 ] [40.00%]





http://www.fordforums.com.au/poll.ph...ts&pollid=1098



350 chev 10 12.66%

360 mopar 19 24.05%

351 clevo 50 63.29%







http://www.hemi6pack.com/forum/poll....lts&pollid=105

351 clevo 0 0%

350 chev 5 27.78%

360 mopar 13 72.22%





cheers,



Knighty.

[noosacuda]

y'all opened a can of worms,eh?

[knighty01]

hehehe

rounding results from all forums (as of the present)

350 = 30.146%

351 = 24.43%

360 = 45.41%

the only reason i diddn't include the 340 in this poll was simply how HARD they are to find whereas the 360's a bit more common.

interesting results though

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by knighty01

hehehe

rounding results from all forums (as of the present)

350 = 30.146%

351 = 24.43%

360 = 45.41%

the only reason i diddn't include the 340 in this poll was simply how HARD they are to find whereas the 360's a bit more common.

interesting results though

Add the number of votes, not the %...

[knighty01]

107 votes total to date

[Walkinshaw]

are you sure you added correctly?

total votes

360 - 36
350 - 20
351 - 51votes ;)

A tad lop sided (not supprising seing most of the votes are from the ff.au poll).

Intresting to see the results and its not supprising actualy. the 351c was only in production for a few yrs in the USA so the following isn't as great as the chev/windsor/mopar equivelents. And the mopar's always have a strong following.

[knighty01]

sorry, i've ballzed up somewhere

i'm getting

351 = 54.57%

360 = 38.52%

350 = 21.4%

does that sound right?? no, total of the percentages is 114.49!!


can someone help this dimwit boilie out??

[knighty01]

this has me stuffed. . .

to round the percentages i've added the total ford percentage, chev percentage and mopar percentages from each forum then divided them by three, does that sound right??

thus, more voters from one particular forum shouldn't make any difference right??

i have again

351 = 24.43

350 = 30.146

360 = 45.423


and the total of these percentages is 99.9993333333333 close enough?

or am i mising something??

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by knighty01

this has me stuffed. . .

to round the percentages i've added the total ford percentage, chev percentage and mopar percentages from each forum then divided them by three, does that sound right??

thus, more voters from one particular forum shouldn't make any difference right??

i have again

351 = 24.43

350 = 30.146

360 = 45.423


and the total of these percentages is 99.9993333333333 close enough?

or am i mising something??

Kinghty, your maths is correct mate . 4Vman and myself were just pointing out, you can get two diffrent results if you add the percentages or if you add the votes.

It's hard to get definate results from a poll which is 90% based loyalty and emotion.

[knighty01]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

just pointing out, you can get two diffrent results if you add the percentages or if you add the votes.

It's hard to get definate results from a poll which is 90% based loyalty and emotion.

yep, why i was trying to run on percentages between the forums, so a forum with 15 votes has the same say as a forum with 50 (yours) so the poll shouldn't be biassed, although the reasons to everyones prefference was of more interest to me, this has been a bloody good read, thanks for the input all

Knighty.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by knighty01

yep, why i was trying to run on percentages between the forums, so a forum with 15 votes has the same say as a forum with 50 (yours) so the poll shouldn't be biassed, although the reasons to everyones prefference was of more interest to me, this has been a bloody good read, thanks for the input all

Knighty.

as hard as you try brand loyalty will allway's give false result's

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by knighty01

yep, why i was trying to run on percentages between the forums, so a forum with 15 votes has the same say as a forum with 50 (yours) so the poll shouldn't be biassed, although the reasons to everyones prefference was of more interest to me, this has been a bloody good read, thanks for the input all

Knighty.

Mate all your showing with those results is how less biased AFF is than those others....

[northey]

It's good to see no one on any of the forums is biased. lol. For me the 360 hardly rates even though those who know what they're doing with them can make power with them. I never owned a Chrysler so can't comment much. The 340 was a fantastic engine and made a lot of power for it's size.

A lot of the info that's been mentioned on here is very recent i.e. from 2000 onwards. Those engines cover a lot more territory than that.
I'm a blue blood but almost all of my racing was with Chev engines. I never classed the clevo as a serious contender in drag racing. There were a few in Aust running hard (and the US) but they were very big dollar engines. The Chev was the "be all and end all" because they had everything available and the knowledge base was enormous.

My view when I was racing was those big heavy Clevo heads and crank just can't keep up with my motor. They didn't have any parts for them that were easily available. The port size didn't matter a hoot and it still doesn't. They were outgunned most of the time.
Having said that I was immensely satisfied every time Kevin Flaherty (Shotgun ProStock car) ran a new quick time and overjoyed when Fords won Bathurst. I still get a kick of knowing that the HO's made very good drag race cars with not much gear on them. I always barracked (still do) for Fords in any event.

The clincher for us as racers was that good Chev gear was available, priced well and very reliable. Changing from a Ford to a Chev though did cause tears. I still drove Ford street cars though; is that ok?

The fact is every time a cleveland lined up beside me on the race track I knew I was going to out accelerate it at every part of the track.
Nowadays that may not be the case. I think I would have to run with a 377 clevo with Aussie alloys of some sort.

That was a good thread Knighty. Funny too.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by knighty01

i'm going to throw this in some other forums just for a laugh, to see if we can decipher an educated overall leader here.. should be interesting results going from a mopar forum to a chev to a ford lol



so who found what to be a more useable engine, who got better EASY horsepower out of what? and why you would pick it.??



but heres the thing, i don't want to just hear the usual v8 supercar banter about someones mill being the greatest, i want to know why??



Cheers.

Knighty

How long is a piece of string? What is the most useable length of string? What is the easiest length of string to use? Why would you pick that length of string? I want to know why??

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by northey

The fact is every time a cleveland lined up beside me on the race track I knew I was going to out accelerate it at every part of the track.

Are you talking cars of equal weight ?
Sounds like a muscle car vs shopping trolley comparo.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Are you talking cars of equal weight ?
Sounds like a muscle car vs shopping trolley comparo.

Good point.
Look at what engine holds the current record in B/ms superstock,talk about acceleration,under some hard (factory parts,hp/ci) rules..

[northey]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Are you talking cars of equal weight ?
Sounds like a muscle car vs shopping trolley comparo.

That comment is almost insulting.
Yes, I'm talking about cars of equal weight. He did say engines not cars. If you're talking about the original streeters those engines came out in the Ford (being the Falcon GT) was mostly the winner in my books. But then you are including handling package, brakes, tyres, more factory support and a heap of other criteria.

I was actually referring mostly to the lightweight cars I raced because he did ask that. But IMO it covers pretty much the whole gamut of car racing that I know of apart from Bathurst (and boats as well). I believe the chevs had more runs on the board, probably because there were a lot more of them. Those three engines came out in 1969. Have a look and see how many B/MS records were held by what engines since then.

[Falcon Coupe]

Saying a Chev can out accelerate any clevo it lined up at every part of a track is insulting IMO.
Hence my query on equal weight.

[nugget378]

Trying not to be biased here (which I am to a point) but....

Chevs are so bloody many that in alot of classes in certain regions thats all that front up,which on its own can skew results etc.
Look at the EM comp,it has been said by top level US builders that using factory type heads the cleveland is all but unbeatable.
I look at it this way,get a realistic budget,and build one of each of the 3 motors,using the factory block and heads,and whatever other rules you want as to compression and ci etc.
optimise each and see which will come out on top,its no suprise to me which will a make more power(again look at the EM comp),thats engine power,so its apples to apples,not a 1200kg torana against a 1600kg falcon etc.
Is it any supirise that the top end racing chev heads have canted valves these days?
Fuellie's v;s 4V';s is there really any competition?
only a died in the wool,blinkers over the eyes holden/chev bloke would say there was,now I dont know too much about the 360,but I doubt it has the HP potential of the 4V big port cleveland.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Trying not to be biased here (which I am to a point) but....

Chevs are so bloody many that in alot of classes in certain regions thats all that front up,which on its own can skew results etc.
Look at the EM comp,it has been said by top level US builders that using factory type heads the cleveland is all but unbeatable.
I look at it this way,get a realistic budget,and build one of each of the 3 motors,using the factory block and heads,and whatever other rules you want as to compression and ci etc.
optimise each and see which will come out on top,its no suprise to me which will a make more power(again look at the EM comp),thats engine power,so its apples to apples,not a 1200kg torana against a 1600kg falcon etc.
Is it any supirise that the top end racing chev heads have canted valves these days?
Fuellie's v;s 4V';s is there really any competition?
only a died in the wool,blinkers over the eyes holden/chev bloke would say there was,now I dont know too much about the 360,but I doubt it has the HP potential of the 4V big port cleveland.

Got to agree there, id love to see a factory block/head shootout, because the 4V clevo would win fairly easy.
That said the chev is still a damn good weapon, it just doesnt breath as well as the clevo.

[northey]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Saying a Chev can out accelerate any clevo on it lined up every part of a track is insulting IMO.
Hence my query on equal weight.

Please read my post again and you'll see that this is what I said:- "The fact is every time a cleveland lined up beside me on the race track I knew I was going to out accelerate it at every part of the track".

That is very different to what you said I wrote.

[northey]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Trying not to be biased here (which I am to a point) but....

Chevs are so bloody many that in alot of classes in certain regions thats all that front up,which on its own can skew results etc.
Look at the EM comp,it has been said by top level US builders that using factory type heads the cleveland is all but unbeatable.
I look at it this way,get a realistic budget,and build one of each of the 3 motors,using the factory block and heads,and whatever other rules you want as to compression and ci etc.
optimise each and see which will come out on top,its no suprise to me which will a make more power(again look at the EM comp),thats engine power,so its apples to apples,not a 1200kg torana against a 1600kg falcon etc.
Is it any supirise that the top end racing chev heads have canted valves these days?
Fuellie's v;s 4V';s is there really any competition?
only a died in the wool,blinkers over the eyes holden/chev bloke would say there was,now I dont know too much about the 360,but I doubt it has the HP potential of the 4V big port cleveland.

Yeah, no bias here either excepting that I like Ford street engines more than anything else. There is no comparison between fuellies and 4V heads standard or ported. But (and we probably don't readily have the information to hand here) have a look through the history books at all types of racing that used those three engines (all over the world, not just Aust) and who won the most.

Probably the Chev.

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by GTPete

Wasnt the 340 the weapon of choice for the chrysler fans.

Certainly was, a great motor that was strangled here in the E55

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by northey

Yeah, no bias here either excepting that I like Ford street engines more than anything else. There is no comparison between fuellies and 4V heads standard or ported. But (and we probably don't readily have the information to hand here) have a look through the history books at all types of racing that used those three engines (all over the world, not just Aust) and who won the most.

Probably the Chev.

No arguement there northey,but consider how many years the cleveland was in production in the US and actually raced in pro classes,with factory support,and compare how many chevs would be in a line up compared to other makes put together and it stands to reason that they will have a higher number of winners.
Maybe more appropriate would be looking at how many times each motor started a series together and see how many times each came out on top.
I know in our historics here that when a certain clevo team starts they come out on top more times than not...

[shakes]

if you were to put 10k up front for each engine to see which made more power chev would win, cause there are to many milk bars in Australia you can get rods from. If you want your motor to last you cant go past a 4v clevo. Big stick, decent comp, enough fuel and good valve gear is all a clevo really needs. Everything else is big enough

[northey]

Originally Posted by nugget378

No arguement there northey,but consider how many years the cleveland was in production in the US and actually raced in pro classes,with factory support,and compare how many chevs would be in a line up compared to other makes put together and it stands to reason that they will have a higher number of winners.
Maybe more appropriate would be looking at how many times each motor started a series together and see how many times each came out on top.
I know in our historics here that when a certain clevo team starts they come out on top more times than not...

If we dynoed those 3 engines standard and then tweaked them (tuning only) there would probably be bugger all difference between them. If we ported the heads as much as they could be (and obviously this includes piston and cam redesign) to make the highest horsepower figure the 4V would win hands down. [I think the early battles between Bob Glidden and Grumpy Jenkins with their steel headed Pro Stock cars were awesome. They paved the way for cylinder head design for race cars I'm sure.]

But put a useable engine in a circuit car (like Sports Sedan) where it might make 550 hp and I'm sure the Chev will still win it's share of races. Even with it's steel heads.

I gather you're talking about Tilley's cars??
Are there many Sports Sedans nowadays runnning Clevos?