Vfacts January 2011

[fordv8!]

what is happening this is really sad, the falcon can't survive surely, we have the best 6cyl now v8 but they still cant sell, i think all the negative press is killing of the falcon.
i tried to do my part the other day i know it's not a falcon but misses wants a small suv no kuga WTF so decided would try a escape had all intensions of buying one walked through reception into yard looking at the cars quite extensively only to be there 25 mins and not a salesman in sight!!!!!!!! none of them busy so i walked next door and am now buying a honda crv.
it made me feel sick that they weren't throwing themselves at me have owned numerous falcons my life love my fords i want to buy a GT in say 3 years will there be any!!!!!!!
come on ford give your customers what they want and you might sell vehicles again

[vztrt]

Let me guess you went to Courtney & Paterson?

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I think you will find that there was a substantial plant closure over the holiday period.

What a stupid comment. You claim the low sales were due to a substantial plant closure. The truth is the plant closure was due to low orders from dealers. If people were buying FGs en mass, the plant wouldn't have been shut down for such a long period.

[Brazen]

EcoBoost isnt gonna do squat, look at the fifty million compact, mid size and large SUVs Not one has an advanced economic engine. All the Ecoboost is going to do is take the sales from the LPG and I6 versions.

I cant believe Ford saw the booming Commodore wagon sales, coupled with the massive massive SUV market which are all wagons... Then looked across at the dead Mitsubishi 380 sedan, dead Ford Mondeo sedan and dying Maxima, Granduer and Accord sedans and thought 'Yep sedans are the future'

Trust me its the bodystyle not the engine killing Falcon.

[Mr X]

I love watching 6 foot plus aussies and their fat kids trying to cram themselves into a Mazda 3 trying to save a few bucks on fuel to put towards a latte or netball coaching for the big ugly daughter-see it all the time at work..........go figure.

Not everyone has the sheep mentality..free thinkers inc.

http://www.performanceforums.com/for...php?t=67263848

Holden and Toyota serve the lowest common denominator ie Shazza and Dazza/Cyril and Gwen..........and surely as B follows A-if Falcon goes Commodore won't be far behind.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by MickyB

I wonder what the worst month ever for Falcon is. January's result would have to be the worst since the XK, XL days I would have thought.

From the figures I have that is the worst ever month for Falcon.

Certainly in the period since 1990 (for which I have detailed numbers), the next closest is the 1,252 of January 2008.

My older figures are annualised but even the worst of those (XK) averaged 2,974 a month so although it is possible one of those months was well below, it is probably unlikely to be lower than this figure.

Cheers
Russ

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Mr X

I love watching 6 foot plus aussies and their fat kids trying to cram themselves into a Mazda 3 trying to save a few bucks on fuel to put towards a latte or netball coaching for the big ugly daughter-see it all the time at work..........go figure.

Not everyone has the sheep mentality..free thinkers inc.

That's very true Australia has this very large pseudo-yuppie materialistic middle class where everyone is overweight, overmortgaged and competing with one-another - have to have a new car every year, 3D TV, etc, it's cheaper to buy new Hyundais than Falcons/Commos, and hey, even if it's a Hyundai it's still a new car.

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by Mr X

I love watching 6 foot plus aussies and their fat kids trying to cram themselves into a Mazda 3 trying to save a few bucks on fuel to put towards a latte or netball coaching for the big ugly daughter-see it all the time at work..........go figure.

Not everyone has the sheep mentality..free thinkers inc.

http://www.performanceforums.com/for...php?t=67263848

Holden and Toyota serve the lowest common denominator ie Shazza and Dazza/Cyril and Gwen..........and surely as B follows A-if Falcon goes Commodore won't be far behind.

Some good points there.
The best word in a post out of the link you posted was "retardulant" and is probably appropriate for some of the above descriptions!

I'd love a new Falcon, specifically one the with supercharged donk, but I have another couple of years before I can get one comfortably, and without going into hock, and using my nads as collateral.
In the meantime, I drive an XG daily, and have the XD and a Ghia to play with any other time.
I have considered getting rid of them all to get a new one, but the car would be totally ruined in a matter of months when you see what happens to the XG at my work.

It hurts to see the new beasty suffering so badly in today's marketplace, but it is a vastly changed environment in which the Falcon is competing.
So many people are probably in a financial situation as myself, or mostly worse I'd imagine, and this only compounds the problem.
I don't know what the answer is, but I can suggest a few that wouldn't be popular with the politicists (spelling) amongst us here.......

Such is the world we live in.

Ed

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

What a stupid comment. You claim the low sales were due to a substantial plant closure. The truth is the plant closure was due to low orders from dealers. If people were buying FGs en mass, the plant wouldn't have been shut down for such a long period.

What the hell is your problem? No need for the personal attack.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

What the hell is your problem? No need for the personal attack.

I said it was a stupid comment. Where was the personal attack?

[bobthebilda]

Its quite clear that the Australian Dollar is going to have the biggest impact on the Australian car manufacturing industry. The last two months of 13007 cars (made in december 2010) and 12464 (made in Jan 2011)
http://www.fcai.com.au/sales/monthly-production-volumes

is the worst two month period since the start of 2005 (and I assume a long way before that as well).

25500 (and I'm pretty sure there are some trucks in these figues too) cars pumped out of 3 plants in a 2 month period is not sustainable. The sad fact is that Toyota's plant probably produced about 16 to 18000 of these cars, and is highly reliant on exports. If Toyota pulls the plug, the other 2 wont have a viable supplier base to be able to survive anyhow.

[DanielXR8]

Its a perfect storm.

Many factors are coming together to take a car that was already under performing sales wise and had been for years.

If these numbers don't pick up you would have to think FGII might be in doubt. Certainly some fellas with funny accents will be winging their way to Australia I would expect, to see what is going on for themselves.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

25500 (and I'm pretty sure there are some trucks in these figues too) cars pumped out of 3 plants in a 2 month period is not sustainable. The sad fact is that Toyota's plant probably produced about 16 to 18000 of these cars, and is highly relaint on exports. If Toyota pulls the plug, the other 2 wont have a viable supplier base to be able to survive anyhow.

Correct. If any of the three fall, it will cause the industry to implode as the volumes would drop below critical mass.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I said it was a stupid comment. Where was the personal attack?

Perhaps personal attack is not the right term, however you could have made your point with something more civil. It's done now.

However as another poster said, some dealers are saying they can't get stock yet the plant isnt getting the orders?? So who is right and who is wrong?? Dealers or head office??

[robertjp]

Other than Geoff Polites and another American CEO (who was sent here to pull the trigger) the last CEO's have seen to have resigned themselves to Ford Australia as import only. The media do bear a huge responsibility for this and are going the same way as Mitsubishi, the last CEO of (when they were still making cars locally) was heralded by "holdenWHEELS" as being there saviour as he as EX GM, but not a word was said when he pulled the pin. I can see design elements and ideas developed in Aus being used worldwide but the manufacturing numbers are too low to be sustainable.
Ford have really focused on getting the US right, but to the detriment of FOA.

[jpd80]

I nearly fell over when i saw those low sale numbers and to think that Ford's PR gal is now
defending the even lower Territory and Ute sales as "break even"....WTF does that mean?

I don't want to be alarmist here but Falcon/Territory are supposed to run for another 5 years,
could it be that Australian buyers are now deciding Falcon's fate long before that deadline?

A couple more months of bad press and continuing Taurus rumors could severely impact
on not only Falcon sales but completely undermine the entire launch of the Territory.

This is serious stuff but FoA don't seem too worried either way, so I wonder what's up......

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I nearly fell over when i saw those low sale numbers and to think that Ford's PR gal is now
defending the even lower Territory and Ute sales as "break even"....WTF does that mean?

I don't want to be alarmist here but Falcon/Territory are supposed to run for another 5 years,
could it be that Australian buyers are now deciding Falcon's fate long before that deadline?

A couple more months of bad press and continuing Taurus rumors could severely impact
on not only Falcon sales but completely undermine the entire launch of the Territory.

This is serious stuff but FoA don't seem too worried either way, so I wonder what's up......

To be fair Sinead is in marketing and she will spin any story she can to try and deflect the bad news - its her job. Remember the spin on Mondeo when its relaunch was a fizzer. "Supply problems" was the call, one major update and several years later, Mondeo is still struggling to sell. Sinead at least has the good grace to not use that excuse anymore, although some on here occassionally trot it out.

This months sales of Falcon are for many, many reasons. The clear thing though, is that January is not a fleet sales month and without fleets there is no Falcon.

Private buyers don't buy Ford. They have been sending that message for years with declining market share and many unhappy ex customers who have had enough of the endless parade of issues that is the experience with Ford, for far too many. Ford chose not to listen.

They better start listening now.

Dan

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

This is serious stuff but FoA don't seem too worried either way, so I wonder what's up......

One might find the answer in the current EBA that is in force at Broadmeadows. If you have a generous redundancy policy in place, would you want to get rid of a lot of people?

On the other hand, if the EBA allows stand downs, at no cost to the company on a daily basis, do you suffer the low sales for a while, and shut the plant every now and then, hoping that attrition (and need to put food on table), forces some of the employees to seek work elsewhere?

[Bossxr8]

December and January are always poor months for Ford, fleets don't buy.

Must be picking up now though as all Feb down days have been cancelled apparently.

Not having any LPG Falcons to sell is a massive F up. Might still be 5 months away.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Perhaps personal attack is not the right term, however you could have made your point with something more civil. It's done now.

However as another poster said, some dealers are saying they can't get stock yet the plant isnt getting the orders?? So who is right and who is wrong?? Dealers or head office??

if you want something which is low volume you have to wait. If you want an auto XT there are. heaps of them

[prydey]

these threads get funnier every month with all the experts 'knowing' all the reasons for the low sales.

do people really think the large car sales will one day return to the glory days?? i doubt you'll see falcon ever hit 3000 again and 2500 will be a good month.

the way i see it, is the large car sales are now only going to those who NEED or WANT a large car. there is an overwhelming amount of choice on the market and many people realise they can get by with a different type of car. the people who by suv's aren't even in the market for a large car, same with small and mid cars, so no point getting upset when these types of cars outsell the falcon.

manufacturing costs are very high in this country. it was never going to be viable to build focus here. it will also become increasingly difficult for the aussie industry to compete without federal help.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

manufacturing costs are very high in this country. it was never going to be viable to build focus here. it will also become increasingly difficult for the aussie industry to compete without federal help.

Pffft, labour 10% of the car's costs, and its cheaper here than Japan, South Korea, Germany, Italy, France etc and they all sell cars cheaper than the Focus here. Plus the cars have to be shipped half way across the world to get here, when shipping has never been more expensive.

[MickyB]

Originally Posted by russellw

From the figures I have that is the worst ever month for Falcon.

Certainly in the period since 1990 (for which I have detailed numbers), the next closest is the 1,252 of January 2008.

My older figures are annualised but even the worst of those (XK) averaged 2,974 a month so although it is possible one of those months was well below, it is probably unlikely to be lower than this figure.

Cheers
Russ

Thanks Russ, I appreciate your knowledge. Whilst it doesn't look good for Falcon in isolation, I think we'll have to wait for a couple of months worth of sales before we can really get an idea. From what others are saying, it certainly doesn't help not having the LPG car available, as well as no XR8 or wagon option.

[robertjp]

tell that to the bean counters, why do you think all the call centers have gone offshore?

[flappist]

Tastes change.

There is ONLY ONE reason that Ford stopped selling the hardtop, panelvan, Fairlane, LTD, V8 in 1987 and any other discontinued model.

PEOPLE STOPPED BUYING THEM.

So all you who want Ford to continue making a RWD Falcon there are only TWO things you can do to help.

The first is:

BUY ONE.

Not a second hand one but a NEW one.

If you can't afford a GT or G6ET then buy an XT or XR6 or G6 but buy a NEW one because if people stop buying new ones then the will be no more second hand ones and if you did not buy a new one THEN IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT.

The second is:

Even if you can't afford an XT then rather than spew nastiness at those who buy other vehicles sing the praises of Falcon, not just the fully sick 12.x second Coyote GT but every Falcon and also talk up the dealers, marketing, design team and whatever else because in reality if a newcomer to Australia was thinking about buying a Falcon and tripped across AFF I suspect that after the first 10 or so threads complaining about basically everything and anything they would run straight down to any car dealer that does NOT sell Falcon.......

We are supposed to be the enthusiasts, the true believers.......with friends like us does Ford actually need enemies........

[Bossxr8]

Call centres rely on people to do all the work, auto manufacturing is a whole different kettle of fish.

Labour costs would probably make up most of a call centres costs, so you're not comparing apples with apples.

[SVR73]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well just because you don't accept an answer does not make it automatically untrue.

In order to increase sales Ford should drop the V8 and turbo 6 so they can make the falcon lighter and use less expensive less strong components.
This will reduce the cost of manufacture.
Then the "quality of assembly" should be increased to at least that of a Focus or Mondeo so the new Falcons don't start falling to bits after about 5 years or 100,000km.

But while this will increase the overall sales of Falcon, the "enthusiasts" will scream like stuck pigs at how they have been "betrayed".

So while Falcon has to deliver a 350kw ++ capable chassis and running gear for under $50k retail they will be exactly what we have right now and sell to the same people who buy them now. (please note that even the bottom of the range XT has the same chassis as the GT-E).

Of course the other half of the problem is that a large percentage of the Falcon buying public would much rather buy a second hand GT, XR8 or XR6T etc. than a new XR6 or G6 so the market is shrinking itself.

You can help though........if you are not driving a new Falcon then I am sure there are a number of dealers who would just love to remedy that....

Why would I want to drive a new car for. Their no better than what I already have and I don't want to put myself in a loan situation again for a car that is not to my liking.
Plus you dont buy cars from dealers. thats how you get ripped off

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Not having any LPG Falcons to sell is a massive F up. Might still be 5 months away.

Biggest stuff up they have done in a while, next would be no Diesel Terri.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Pffft, labour 10% of the car's costs, and its cheaper here than Japan, South Korea, Germany, Italy, France etc and they all sell cars cheaper than the Focus here. Plus the cars have to be shipped half way across the world to get here, when shipping has never been more expensive.

1) The minumum wage in places like Korea for example is much lower than here

2) Greater automation in european and asian plants means less people have to be employed to make cars (the only parts of a Falcon and Territory that are built by robots is the bodyshell sans hanging panels, the rest is done by people)

3) Shipping a...err shipload of 10,000 cars really doesnt add a lot of cost to the unit cost of each car because the shipping cost is spread out over the whole shipment - $1,000,000 cost to ship those cars to Oz adds $100 to the base cost of the car, which can be recouped by:

4) Sheer economies of scale mean that european and asian plants can offer X car cheaper than FoA can simply for that reason.

[SVR73]

Originally Posted by flappist

Tastes change.

There is ONLY ONE reason that Ford stopped selling the hardtop, panelvan, Fairlane, LTD, V8 in 1987 and any other discontinued model.

PEOPLE STOPPED BUYING THEM.

So all you who want Ford to continue making a RWD Falcon there are only TWO things you can do to help.

The first is:

BUY ONE.

Not a second hand one but a NEW one.

If you can't afford a GT or G6ET then buy an XT or XR6 or G6 but buy a NEW one because if people stop buying new ones then the will be no more second hand ones and if you did not buy a new one THEN IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT.

The second is:

Even if you can't afford an XT then rather than spew nastiness at those who buy other vehicles sing the praises of Falcon, not just the fully sick 12.x second Coyote GT but every Falcon and also talk up the dealers, marketing, design team and whatever else because in reality if a newcomer to Australia was thinking about buying a Falcon and tripped across AFF I suspect that after the first 10 or so threads complaining about basically everything and anything they would run straight down to any car dealer that does NOT sell Falcon.......

We are supposed to be the enthusiasts, the true believers.......with friends like us does Ford actually need enemies........

yeah thats all well and good in theory but if we all run out and buy new cars every few years, how boring would that be. just like a certain club I know who push their members and prospective ones into buying new FPV's so they can all look perfect all the time and show just how good they (think) they are
their forgetting the heritage

we cant all keep buying cars. my motto is buy one car, take care of it and keep it for life. drive that one on weekends and buy a cheap car as a daily.
instead of us all buying a falcon, why dont ford build something people want
personally my AU XR is the third and last falcon I will ever own.

It is time for change. new name, fresh ideas and some vision from ford
no more doors that open outwards either. thats outdated.

the way both companies are going, the next lot of Falcons and Commo's will have cardboard interior trim