Moffat/Brock call for higher age restrictions - Page 2

MO · 19-03-2006, 09:22 PM

Motorbike licenses have been power graded for yonks...there is not one single piece of evidance posted here to suggest that grading does'nt work.

As far as I'm concerned I don't have a problem with graded licenses and training as has been suggested......as for me I'm one of the lucky ones...I was involved in car clubs not long after I got my license and they taught me to respect both mine and my cars capabilities.

MO · 19-03-2006, 09:37 PM

As an after thought it would probably be a good idea that all new road users started on motorbikes as I did and progressed up the grade to unrestricted before they even got a car license.

Believe me there is nothing better to teach you good driving/riding skills than this....when you consider that you have to make allowances for every d/head on the road....'cos if you don't they're going to kill you!

FPV8U · 19-03-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brenx

It's all good on paper but finally getting to 25 and jumping from your 1.3lt 20kw barina into a 250-300kw whatever is still going to get that inexperienced driver in trouble. Why do I say the drivers inexperienced? You can drive a 20kw barina round all day @ 100% WOT. Jump into the higher powered car using normal driving habbits and they'll end up running into someone or something.

They need experience in the higher power vehicle not ИИИИters.

I agree, driver Education is the answer, not limiting what young people are allowed to drive...

but what is cheaper for the govenment...

A New Law or Forking out on a Driver Education Program?

brenx · 19-03-2006, 10:10 PM

It's not a case of whats cheaper. It's what makes $. They make $ from fining people who are driving high powered vehicles when they aren't supposed to be.

xurbanx · 19-03-2006, 10:34 PM

Like everyone else said here, a compulsary defensive driving course would be good (: Regardless, they'll always be P-platers who drive like maniac's and P-platers who cruise at normal speed (:

4Vman · 19-03-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brenx

It's all good on paper but finally getting to 25 and jumping from your 1.3lt 20kw barina into a 250-300kw whatever is still going to get that inexperienced driver in trouble. Why do I say the drivers inexperienced? You can drive a 20kw barina round all day @ 100% WOT. Jump into the higher powered car using normal driving habbits and they'll end up running into someone or something.

They need experience in the higher power vehicle not ИИИИters.

Brenx, id rather deal with a 25 yo who's spent 7 years learning how to read the road conditions and matured enough to know a bit more AND PASSED the compulsary high performance licence upgrade, jumping from a 20kw barina into a 250-300kw whatever than take the gamble with someone with 4 FULL years less experience without the extra test!!! :Reverend:

coyote · 19-03-2006, 11:49 PM

Since when did experience and skill have anything to do with age ????

Practice and being interested in the craft enable one to get experience.

Skills do not appear after a certain abount of time, laziness and boredom do, and just because it is too difficult to assess and damn near impossible to get revenue from it will ensure that no effort is put into the real issues.

As for motorbike licences, I have been on 125's that will put to shame many a larger bike, and a whole lot edgier, less safe and certainly not ideal for new riders.

Attention, interest, and refining and improving skills are the only way to be a safe driver, Pity the system is more about being a legal driver.

Practical training, longer training, and constant assesment is the key,

AGE is mearly a figure (in my case unfortunatly a larger one)

Then there is the other side of the coin at what age (or more importantly skill level) do we take away the privliges of our senior citizens, how do we assess it etc.

Psycho Chicken · 20-03-2006, 12:13 AM

Am I the only one who's done a defensive course (Murcott) and got nothing at all from it? If you had ABS the day would of been a complete WOFTAM.

The stuff they taught had been taught to me by both my dad and driving instructor. In fact I'd even go as far to say I'd learnt more from them than the course.

Now fair enough not everyone out there is getting professional lessons and I'd like to think my dad was a fairly good driver (losing it a bit as he gets on) with Vic Police driving courses, heaps of years in the TOG and some racing stuff under the belt, but if you don't know that a car won't steer with the brakes locked up you SHOULDN'T be on the road.

2kool4u · 20-03-2006, 02:27 AM

I'm 17 and on my P's, I think the driver training is a good idea, if they had such a place in Cairns I would definetely go to it. I think the power restriction is a waste of time though, my stock EF is easily fast enough to kill myself in.

LTDHO · 20-03-2006, 07:48 AM

Changing the age from 21 to 25 will do absolutely nothing!

Firstly it is a law that is not enforced now, unless you're in a V8. Most turbo 4 pots leave V8's behind.
Secondly, the 'power to weight' is only a contributing factor. As said several times already, defensive driving course should be mandatory. You can still kill yourself in a heave powerless vehicle.
Thirdly, Some people don’t get their licence until they’re in their 20’s. Why should they get into a powerful car?

Simple this, 16-18 learners, 19-21 P’s with current power/weight law (but enforced) and 22 on defensive lesson/test to get of P’s.

merlin · 20-03-2006, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Am I the only one who's done a defensive course (Murcott) and got nothing at all from it? If you had ABS the day would of been a complete WOFTAM.

The stuff they taught had been taught to me by both my dad and driving instructor. In fact I'd even go as far to say I'd learnt more from them than the course.
.

I did one and got heaps out of it - i really recommend it. On the day everyone with ABS had to pop the hood and the instructer pulled the ABS fuses out! If nothing else it certainly changed my driving attitude at the time (I think I was 19).

Having said that I think p/w is a good idea for cars, it works really well for bikes, but I think age is irrelevant, it should be based on how long you have held the provisional license.

Pedro · 20-03-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

The problem is not only age it is experience. You only get experience by driving.

To get a pilot's licence requires many hours training both practical and theory along with very stringent testing and re testing every two years.
It also requires training and testing for every flying style and aircraft type.

In cars terms, you would need to be tested separately for day driving, night driving, driving in rain, driving in cities, driving a manual, driving a V8, driving a 4WD etc. etc.

The end result of this would be safer drivers but the cost both financially and politically would be horrendous.

We are stuck with the problem and it is not going to go away.....

OK. But governments are doing NOTHING about it, just putting up more speed cameras and telling us this will save lives.

brenx · 20-03-2006, 10:14 AM

Thing is there will always be a road toll while humans are allowed to drive. That's the beauty of being human no-one perfect. Although some claim to be. It's only going to get worse as more and more people buy cars and hit the road.

Politicians love speed camera revenue because they don't drive a car or pay for the fuel. Tax payers pay for it.

pauljh74 · 20-03-2006, 10:35 AM

I'd support it if all drivers had to pass an advanced driving test to be able to renew their licence. It would weed out people of ALL ages who don't cut the mustard. The younger driver's biggest problem is attitude, followed by inexperience, if they drove calmly and attentively accidents would plummet, whereas if some of the elderly were to drive the same way would struggle because they are physically limited and are flat out managing to drive 20km/h below the limit.
P-plater's vehicle limits would remain and you'd have to pass the advanced course to get your full licence which would then enable you to drive higher powered cars.

Psycho Chicken · 20-03-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

I did one and got heaps out of it - i really recommend it. On the day everyone with ABS had to pop the hood and the instructer pulled the ABS fuses out! If nothing else it certainly changed my driving attitude at the time (I think I was 19).

On my course they told us they aren't allowed to do it because of the legal implications if something goes wrong with the car.

brenx · 20-03-2006, 11:52 AM

I've seen quite a few ABS systems refuse to initialise after the fuse has been pulled for a driving course.

4.9 EF Futura · 20-03-2006, 12:10 PM

I dont know if legislation, rules etc etc are the way that the perceived problem should be addressed

One needs to ask - is it really a problem? Im not saying it isnt a problem... but just because the news talks it up and asks well known drivers to write an article on the matter... doesnt make it a problem... something like 2 people commit suicide in australia every day, but those stories arent flavour of the month and you dont hear high profile australians throwing their hat in the ring on that issue... do you?

Of course further driver training is going to improve someone's ability... but should we be legislating that? Picture a teenager who learnt to drive in their folks "high powered" commodore and then drove that around after obtaining her P's. The thing never saw more than 30% throttle... would it be fair to make her fork out a few hundred $$$ to attend the courses being suggested - just because other people in her age group have a poor track record? I think not.

Or the other side of the fence - spend a thousand dollars teaching a young person defensive driving techniques... does this stop them mashing the throttle as soon as they get out on the road? I dont care how much training you give someone, if they exceed the limit of the car they're gonna come unstuck.

Like many things we would like to change in society it's all about changing attitudes. How is this done? Buggered if i know. It would seem that sensationalising motorsport and making the ppl that drive those cars out to be heros is probably not a great idea...

Jeld-Wen Falcon · 20-03-2006, 04:28 PM

Thats the stupidest idea. Send them to advanced driving courses, if they have no prior offences. If they pass it, then let them. If they offend, remove thier right to drive a powerful car.

I think alot of you older blokes wouldnt agree with it if were you.

coyote · 20-03-2006, 10:41 PM

You cannot legislate common Sence (not that it seems that common any more)

The ability to change an attitude must come from within, we can educate about the consequences of actions, but at the end of the day it is the attitude of each and every driver that will determine their consequences.

MO · 20-03-2006, 10:48 PM

Very true.....but its amazing how a #10 up their bum helps to change their outlook.

jmc-007 · 20-03-2006, 10:56 PM

Cause and effect.

the govt doesnt want to do anything because if you train people properly then you dont have any need for speed cameras or extra equipment to buy.

On the other hand we need a big shake up of the whole system. to obtain ur driving license.

Driver training and classes in school as well . hell make it apart of the HSC!!!

Too many idiots in imports and other ИИИИ boxes.

Although dont just targe the young people but everyone.

Just because you maybe 35 or even 50 or 60 doesnt mean you can drive.

Ref: Cartigan camry drivers.

I know first hand after loosing a friend last week what a 450hp car can do in the hands of a 20 something young boy.

But even so you cant stop people being people. You can have Draconian laws and facist states but people will be people. and ИИИИ laws will be ИИИИ laws.

The govt stops nothing and helps no one. People dont think and end up hurting themselves or others.

Lukeyson · 20-03-2006, 10:58 PM

wow if that came in i would only be legally allowed to drive a car next month (when i turn 25) that i have owned for almost 4 years