6 speed Auto - who'd have one? - Page 2

niko · 05-02-2005, 07:21 PM

7speed mercs...
not impressive guys

FNQracing · 05-02-2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

Anyway, for my money, in terms of the manual gearboxes, jumping out of an S15 into a BA is like going from a surgical instrument to a blunt cold chisel -

Yes. I have yet to pilot a decent Falcon self shifter. Falcon's driveline is designed around a automatic trasmission. Ford knows that a very small percentage of Falcs will be manuals... The R&D for refining Falcons driveline with a manual box is just not up there on the priority list for Ford.

Even as a passenger, manual Falcons are not a nice thing.

Thunder Kiss · 05-02-2005, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

A 6 speed auto fitted to a standard 6 was nearly a whole second quicker to 100 than the current 4 speed.

If that's true then they better upgrade the rest of the driveline, otherwise imagine all the extra warrarty claims?

Hawk · 05-02-2005, 11:37 PM

I have heard that the ZF 6 speed auto is actually lighter than the current 4 speed auto on the Falcons, which is something a lot of people would be happy with.

I am confident, 99.9% sure, we will see a 6 speed out this year on a Falcon. Whether it is the ZF is another story.

JC · 05-02-2005, 11:42 PM

I opt for an auto now, and giving me 2 extra gears would certainly be no reason to go back to the dark ages, oops, sorry, back to a manual. Although, i currently have six gears, depending on how you want to define them: R N D 3 2 1

JC · 05-02-2005, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niko

7speed mercs...
not impressive guys

Actually, it is. Compare the population of countries the 7 Speed merc is sold in to ours. lets's say 400 million, to our 20 million. The new car market in Oz is around the 200,000 figure (approx 1% of population). Based on that same percentage, the car market for the merc is approx 4,000,000 cars per year.

Now, the merc in it's home country is equivalent to the falcon/commodore. Combined they (falcodores) hold about 30% of our new car market - around 15% each, give or take a few percent either way. Of this figure, around 90% would be auto. So roughly 13% of 200,000 = 26,000 cars sold each year are auto falcons. If we use the same 13% of the total number in the mercs market, you get 520,000 cars sold per year with a 7 speed gearbox. It is much easier to ammortise (spread) the cost of R&D for a 7 speed auto across 520,000 cars than it is to spread it across 26,000 cars. If Ford Oz tried to bring in a 7 speed box, the cars would probably end up costing more than a merc! Which is exactly why it's the Jag that gets the ZF 6 speed at the moment. Jag is the premium brand - ie the cars cost more anyway, so rich people won't even notice the extra they are paying for a 6 speed auto.

Then, of course, there is the reason for needing 7 gears. Would we need that many with our piddly 110 km/h limit (actually, would we need 6?). probably not. But in the EU where you can do whatever safe speed (let's call it 250km/h) you want on some roads - eg autobahns in germany, autostradas in Italy - the 7 gears would (possbily) get used - over here, we would really only use the first 4!

FNQracing · 06-02-2005, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCXR8

Then, of course, there is the reason for needing 7 gears. Would we need that many with our piddly 110 km/h limit (actually, would we need 6?). probably not. But in the EU where you can do whatever safe speed (let's call it 250km/h) you want on some roads - eg autobahns in germany, autostradas in Italy - the 7 gears would (possbily) get used - over here, we would really only use the first 4!

The number of gears has very little to do with a vehichles top speed. Its all in the gearing. A 7 (and 6) speed would have very close ratios (compared with a 3 or 4), enabling the engine to "stay on song" through the rev range as each new ratio is selected. Properly calibrated to the engines power and tourque characteristics, a 7 speed would provide increased acceleration and improved fuel economy, not to mention higher levels of refinement.

SpoolMan · 06-02-2005, 02:37 AM

Better be a ZF 6 speed...
Typhoon with a ZF 6 speed, a few mods 300rwkw thats a machine...all we need is that v8 sound.

Sox · 06-02-2005, 08:21 AM

I'd own a 6spd auto only if it shifted better than that absolutely disgusting 4spd that Ford currently use.

It appears that most people feel the tall first gear is the biggest problem with the current box, and yes I agree it is a problem, however I also hate how lethargic it is shifting gears, the flaring and the delay when the throttle is pushed.
It gives little feedback, and is so unresponsive.

Personally I think the current 4spd is very poor indeed, and the 6spd would have to rectify the above mentioned problems before I'd even consider one.

Rick.

FordFan86 · 06-02-2005, 08:32 AM

I'd take one, more fun

ilsautomotive · 06-02-2005, 10:21 AM

It will be an exciting day when the woeful inefficiency of the current auto driveline is addressed.

However, to those who think that more gears is better, bear in mind that time/energy wasted constantly shifting gears equals increased wear on the transmission and reduced performance. There has to be a line to be drawn, and I think 5 or 6 speeds with well chosen ratios is all that would ever be necessary. In terms of performance, many a drag car does just fine with 2 speeds.

Steffo · 06-02-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouty

In terms of performance, many a drag car does just fine with 2 speeds.

Most Pro Class drag cars only use 2 speed transmissions because its a class rule. They also overcome the lack of ratio's by using an extremley short final drive. 4.56:1, 4.88:1, 5.22:1 etc. Can you imagine a Falcon that cruises at 100km/h at 4000rpm? That wouldn't be a long lasting engine. Ford should, IMO, copy Mercedes-Benz. The E55 AMG for example, 5 speed auto, runs a 2.75:1 final drive. But the way the gears are spread, this accompanies them quite nicely. It accelerates hard when you put your foot down, and will cruise lazily for miles upon miles. And the tall final drive also means improved fuel economy...

ilsautomotive · 06-02-2005, 12:06 PM

I agree, a good spread of gears is potentially better than having a silly number of ratios. Mercedes might as well look at CVT... though for Falcon, I think the price of transmission rebuilds would be a big factor, particularly for taxi drivers.

Steffo · 06-02-2005, 12:20 PM

They could always make a taxi-pack using the same BTR M97LE they use now.

Gabbs · 06-02-2005, 12:37 PM

It will be good to see a 6 speed auto in the falcon and im sure it will improve sales but at this moment in time id opt for a manual as auto's are boring to drive imho.
Maybe later down the track when im older ill make a move to auto but thiers no way id do it now.

Sox · 06-02-2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Most Pro Class drag cars only use 2 speed transmissions because its a class rule.

I think you'll find it's more to do with light weight cars, such as altereds, and dragsters (no, not TF's).
Lightweight cars with big blocks (lots of torque) are most efficient with 2 gears, as any more gears are wasted.
Usually bigger/heavier cars such as sedans benefit from more gears.

Road cars have very different requirements.

Quote:

They also overcome the lack of ratio's by using an extremley short final drive. 4.56:1, 4.88:1, 5.22:1 etc.

This is done regardless of the amount of ratios. A comprimise must be met between optimum launch, and crossing the finish line in top gear at redline.

Few drag cars have ratios taller than 4.5:1.

Rick.

Lukeyson · 06-02-2005, 03:01 PM

if there was a definate announcement of a 6 speed i would wait off ordering our GT-P till then for sure !

AUIII XR8 MAN · 06-02-2005, 03:06 PM

I would opt for the 6 speed auto if it was the same gearing as the manual. Quicker gear changes with the auto.

JR. · 06-02-2005, 04:23 PM

considering the amount of owners on here who bitch about the quality of their manual boxes and driveline shunt - which again seems to be mostly an isssue in manual equipped cars, what wouldn't be to want about a 6 speed auto with similar ratios as the manual and few of the problems?

genebaby · 06-02-2005, 06:43 PM

I would definitely take one for a test drive or 3!!

EFFalcon · 06-02-2005, 06:59 PM

aslong as i can make it work in the EF!

Smoke Pursuit · 06-02-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

Ive driven an auto XR6T... I despised it. Personal preference of course, but Id never buy an auto XR6T - was the most boring BA I have ever driven. And it didnt even seem to go that hard, even compared to my NA....Got out of it disgusted and they let me drive a manual XR8... Now THAT was fun.... My Dad, who drives an auto AUI Fairmont, drove the auto XR6T too... he also said he wouldnt get it in auto...

Here we go!!!! :togo:

Ive driven an XR6 Turbo in an AUTO and thought it was brillant, i certainly wouldn't buy a Manual Clunk box

As for a Six speed auto id have one tomorrow. In todays conditions and with city driving autos are far far superior then manuals.

As for the boring part, YOUR BORING! You whinge about clutches etc falling out of the Manaul yet you say a Turbo sedan would have to be the most boring BA, thats the biggest load of crock ive ever read, best you go join the denial forum! I reckon the most boring BA would have to be an EGas XT...

FNQracing · 06-02-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

Ive driven an auto XR6T... I despised it. Personal preference of course, but Id never buy an auto XR6T - was the most boring BA I have ever driven. And it didnt even seem to go that hard, even compared to my NA....

Quickly, take yourself down to the nearest medical center and get your pulse checked!

:

Seriously, these things go hard. Damn hard straight out of the box. Your NA six would not hold a candle to it.

XRchic · 06-02-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Here we go!!!! :togo:

Ive driven an XR6 Turbo in an AUTO and thought it was brillant, i certainly wouldn't buy a Manual Clunk box

As for a Six speed auto id have one tomorrow. In todays conditions and with city driving autos are far far superior then manuals.

As for the boring part, YOUR BORING! You whinge about clutches etc falling out of the Manaul yet you say a Turbo sedan would have to be the most boring BA, thats the biggest load of crock ive ever read, best you go join the denial forum! I reckon the most boring BA would have to be an EGas XT...

My my MY! Isnt someone a tad defensive today? Did we get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or do we suffer from STICK ENVY (tm)????

Im sooo sorry, I totally forgot that we are not allowed OPINIONS on a public forum! The fact that I drove ONE XR6T and found it boring just HAPPENS to be my opinion! You find it fantastic? Well goody goody for you. Im pleased for you. For my part, I grew up driving cars on a track long before I was driving on a regular road and probably long before a lot of people on this Forum were driving at all, so perhaps my (apparently flawed) opinion is to be taken in this context.

I have never hidden the fact that I have had issues with my CLUTCH, however, I have never had ANY issue with my T5 and in fact, the T5 is rather good - and NO, this is not just my OPINION, God forbid! It is actually the opinion of people who would KNOW, who have driven it on many occasions! And in any case, my clutch has been repaired, not at my expense and it actually survived the drags at Heathcote rather well, I might add. Just because something breaks does not mean it is not preferable to something else... Id rather fix something I liked, rather than drive something I didnt like, just because it was less trouble!

I still maintain that the XR6T I drove in the auto was BORING, and I compared this to the manual XR6T (which I loved) and the manual XR8 (after driving I couldnt get the smile off my face) and even my own manual NA. And whats more, the auto XR6T still IS the most boring BA I have driven except for perhaps an auto XT Hertz hire car and that is my OPINION. If you have one and you like it, then thats very nice. I dont happen to agree.

I also drive mine an hour a day in peak hour traffic, I also live in the hills and I also do a lot of country driving. I have also driven in interstate peak hour traffic. I have never had a problem with driving a manual under such conditions. I have also driven it with a completely smashed left foot for quite a long time under such conditions, and also with the foot in a bad way at the drags at Heathcote. I still never had a problem and would have never traded it for an auto. I do not agree that everyone would find the auto superior to the manual at all. If you cant handle it, then drive the auto. I, for one, can handle it and whats more, I actually enjoy the clutch and changing gears regardless of the conditions and if I feel that doing otherwise is boring, then please kindly accept my opinion and move on thanks.

I might add that people are BORING who cannot take someones OPINION for what it is, and deal with that by personally insulting people! And it's also a tad childish!

I am not saying the 6 speed auto is a bad thing, for those who like it, then I am sure it will be a good thing. As I stated in my post (if you care to re-read it) and also I did state that it was a matter of preference (if you care to re read that part too).... And the last time I checked, having a preference was not illegal or against the Forum rules. I dont like autos. Get over it. I prefer manuals. Get over it. I stated my opinion. Get over it.

You cannot read a post properly. I will get over it. You cannot distinguish between an opinion/preference and a personal attack. I will get over it. You respond to peoples opinions/preferences with insults. I will get over it. And I also will have a laugh.

I wish you a better nights sleep tonight and I recommened some therapy for your stick envy - all with the best intentions of course!

Relaaaax..... breathe deeeeeply......

sleep:

Sox · 06-02-2005, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Here we go!!!! :togo:

Ive driven an XR6 Turbo in an AUTO and thought it was brillant, i certainly wouldn't buy a Manual Clunk box

Brilliant? The excessive flaring, the shift delay, the heat, the weight, poor economy, which part is brilliant about it?

Quote:

As for a Six speed auto id have one tomorrow. In todays conditions and with city driving autos are far far superior then manuals.

Bollocks, they are easier, not superior.

Quote:

As for the boring part, YOUR BORING! You whinge about clutches etc falling out of the Manaul yet you say a Turbo sedan would have to be the most boring BA, thats the biggest load of crock ive ever read, best you go join the denial forum! I reckon the most boring BA would have to be an EGas XT...

I agree with the girl, all autos are boring, and I've driven plenty with more power than a XR6T, yep, they were still boring, quick, though boring.

You only steer autos, but you drive manuals.

Rick.

Chucky · 06-02-2005, 08:24 PM

Ok kiddies.. Obligatory warning about threads getting out of control..

This is a good thread.. lets not cock it up with crap..

it:

XRchic · 06-02-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFOracing

Quickly, take yourself down to the nearest medical center and get your pulse checked!

:

Seriously, these things go hard. Damn hard straight out of the box. Your NA six would not hold a candle to it.

THAT XR6T did not go as hard as I though compared to mine, which does actually go quite hard (admittedly with mods). Perhaps I expected too much. I dont know. But I do know I enjoyed the XR6T manual a LOT more. And it felt like it went harder than the auto one, and it was a lot more fun. Its that simple.

I know what times the auto XR6T are getting on the strip. So yes, they do appear to go hard. The one I drove didnt, or it didnt FEEL like it. My Dad who has an auto preference, also was disgusted with it. Having said that, I am sure he would like the 6 speed auto. I just wouldnt.

I know my car is never going to get low 14s on the strip. And perhaps a manual XR6T wouldnt either. But if I had a manual XR6T Id gladly trade off a tenth for the fun I would have driving it every day.

And yep, the pulse is going quite fine thanks, it just slows down a bit when I hear an awesome sounding car go through an auto gear change....

You dudes all gotta take a chill pill and RELAX!!!! Coz Im starting to feel a bit intimidated here!!! ROFL!

_2:

: :evil_laug

XRchic · 06-02-2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucky

Ok kiddies.. Obligatory warning about threads getting out of control..

This is a good thread.. lets not cock it up with crap..

it:

Yeah point taken Chucky. Obligatory apology to those who I have offended.

Nah seriously, sorry if I offended anyone, it was not my intent.

:

rodderz · 06-02-2005, 08:34 PM

Some people like auto's, some manuals! Everyone is entitled to say what they prefer guys

We all have a choice and we can make that choice when we look for a car to purchase!

Smoke Pursuit · 06-02-2005, 09:13 PM

Nah im just a little ****ed off with the word choice. Xrchic says she despised it and her old man was disgusted with it which I just cant understand. Getting out of an AU Fairmont and into an Auto or Manual T he should have had alot of fun. Either the car was faulty or your comments are a little biased (I dont know).

Neways they are a quick car, the quarter mile times prove it. Auto or manual. .

I didn't intend to take a stab at you XRchic, but your comments seemed to be a little biased and a little off topic.