Single use plastic bag ban by Government

[Cav]

This is starting to sound like the same debate on global warming.

Facts don't matter anymore.

Just be glad though that the ban on certain shopping bags will save some turtles from somewhere or other.



And is plastic the REAL PROBLEM?



As you can see, Australia's contribution is negligible.



So tell me again my friends why you agree with the govmint's ban on single use plastic bags and how it will save the environment, whales and turtles while at the same time spreading diseases to human beings.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by Cav

So tell me again my friends why you agree with the govmint's ban on single use plastic bags and how it will save the environment, whales and turtles while at the same time spreading diseases to human beings.

Reducing plastic waste is only a good thing. I hope no one will disagree with that.

But this particular policy is tokenism at it's best.

We need to instead concentrate on what we'll be doing with all the recycling that China is no longer accepting - how much of that will just end up as landfill. But that's hard and expensive, so will be ignored for more token acts of meaninglessness.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by data_mine

We need to instead concentrate on what we'll be doing with all the recycling that China is no longer accepting - how much of that will just end up as landfill. But that's hard and expensive, so will be ignored for more token acts of meaninglessness.

Bingo!... This is the hidden motive that is coming I eluded to earlier.

The way for Government to solve the recycling problem is to build giant incinerators and just burn the waste, and use the heat produced to generate electricity.

Plastic bags though was what was holding it back... It needed to be lessened in the burning process.

Our waste problem, particularly cardboard, became worse over the years when all our backyard incinerators were banned.... Never needed cardboard recycling bins back in those days.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Our waste problem, particularly cardboard, became worse over the years when all our backyard incinerators were banned.... Never needed cardboard recycling bins back in those days.

Another problem that occurred at our house when they banned incinerators and Dad had to pull it down was my brother and I lost our wickets for our backyard cricket matches.

True story.

[aussiblue]

A 2012 University of Pennsylvania study found San Francisco’s 2007 plastic bag ban killed people because reusable bags increased shoppers’ exposure to harmful bacteria that can infest them. “The San Francisco ban led to, conservatively, 5.4 annual additional deaths,” the authors concluded.

a) That's because of a poor hygiene problem i.e reusing plastic bags that were used for meat etc.

b) That was in the US and they were still much more likely to be shot or be fatally struck by lightening than die from harmful bacteria in a used plastic bag.

c) It may also be offset by a reduction in the number children that die by plastic bag suffocation. https://www.familyeducation.com/life...cation-hazards

On average, 20 kids die each year from suffocation by plastic bags.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

a) That's because of a poor hygiene problem i.e reusing plastic bags that were used for meat etc.

b) That was in the US and they were still much more likely to be shot or be fatally struck by lightening than die from harmful bacteria in a used plastic bag.

image

God-damnit!

Your poster is bigger than mine.

[aussiblue]

Ok the slightly smaller version:

[anobserver]

Virtue signalling, to show the guvmint is 'doing something'.

Cost shifting, to the consumer who will now be paying for them.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Basically it's a con and the only winners are the supermarkets.

Went to pick a few things up from Woolworths after work yesterday and they had no more free plastic bags, but you now had to buy plastic bags for 15 cents each.

They called the old bags single use, but most were not single use, I used them to take my lunch to work, to store the dogs meat in the fridge and then finally as garbage bags.

Now I have to buy plastic bags to use at the shop, mind you these bags take about 5-10 times the energy and resources to produce. I will now also have to buy garbage bags (which really are single use bags.)

So now we have no more 'free' bags which were not really free as the price of the bags was incorporated into your grocery prices, now grocery prices have not gone down but we now have to buy bags on top, so the shops are now doubling and tripling up selling us plastic bags and garbage bags.

And people being people, in a few months down the track most people won't bat an eyelid at paying 30-50 cents a bag (yes I am certain they won't stay at 15 cents) and nothing would have changed for the environment, if anything things will be worse.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by data_mine

Reducing plastic waste is only a good thing. I hope no one will disagree with that.

This will not reduce plastic waste, it will actually increase it.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Basically it's a con and the only winners are the supermarkets.

Went to pick a few things up from Woolworths after work yesterday and they had no more free plastic bags, but you now had to buy plastic bags for 15 cents each.

They called the old bags single use, but most were not single use, I used them to take my lunch to work, to store the dogs meat in the fridge and then finally as garbage bags.

Now I have to buy plastic bags to use at the shop, mind you these bags take about 5-10 times the energy and resources to produce. I will now also have to buy garbage bags (which really are single use bags.)

So now we have no more 'free' bags which were not really free as the price of the bags was incorporated into your grocery prices, now grocery prices have not gone down but we now have to buy bags on top, so the shops are now doubling and tripling up selling us plastic bags and garbage bags.

And people being people, in a few months down the track most people won't bat an eyelid at paying 30-50 cents a bag (yes I am certain they won't stay at 15 cents) and nothing would have changed for the environment, if anything things will be worse.

Why did they decide to charge 15c for the new bags? They shot themselves in the foot.
I read somewhere where they only cost a couple of cents to make.
It would have made much more sense from a marketing point to keep them as 'free' and just do what they normally do - add a couple of cents here and there on their products.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by LG17

Why did they decide to charge 15c for the new bags? They shot themselves in the foot.
I read somewhere where they only cost a couple of cents to make.
It would have made much more sense from a marketing point to keep them as 'free' and just do what they normally do - add a couple of cents here and there on their products.

No idea, Woolworths were charging for the bags yesterday I paid 30 cents for two bags, apparently Coles will be giving them away for free to start with and then sell them after an introductory period.

But my point is they have replaced plastic bag with plastic bags, and are now charging us for them, and I am certain people being people that most will not really treat these bags any different, and will simply pay the money for the bags on a weekly basis.

These new bags use 5-10 times the resources to produce, and will take 20 times the time frame to break down. These numbers are estimates I have found since reading up about this last night.

[LG17]

Woolies in Qld are now giving the 15c bags away free for a short while, such was the backlash up here.

[Maka]

Cue the permanent 'free shopping bag' marketing ploy soon when & if the backlash hits epic proportions lol!

Dont agree with incineration of the bags either, can existing technology extract the oil out of them yet, i think so?

cheers, Maka

[71cop]

What is a single use plastic bag anyway ? Any supermarket issued plastic bags that I have at home normally see multiple use.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Ok the slightly smaller version:

image

I can't believe I actually looked at this ****.

It is a prediction about men's deaths made 10 years ago.

Makes chilly reading though.

[aussiblue]

I think the rest of the world is laughing at our irrational resistance to this change: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44674112

[Tassie f100]

This 15 cent charge for bags is a joke.If you are spending $150 $1 or so for bags is hardly noticable. Maybe charge $2 per bag, so people are forced to think for themselves about reusing bags. Some of the people who whinge about 15c bags are the same mob who readily spend $20-30 on stinking cigarettes every few days

[GO FURTHER]

Maybe Autobarn and Supercheap should start selling roll up resuable shopping bags with Ford logos on them, so us car guys can keep one in the boot when we go shopping.

[Interceptor]

This is kinda worrying for me, it looks like its gonna hurt my chances of picking up a skank at the pub on a saturday night....

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

The way for Government to solve the recycling problem is to build giant incinerators and just burn the waste, and use the heat produced to generate electricity.

I've played enough Sim City 4 to know that the end-game to this plan is an area with heavy air pollution.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I think the rest of the world is laughing at our irrational resistance to this change: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44674112

This assumes that banning of single use plastic bags is rational. Whereas no one can give me a rational explanation other than muttering words like environment and turtles.

Banning selected bags I say is irrational.

If a govmint wants to ban plastic bags for whatever reason then they need to ban all plastic bags..

Now is that acceptable to everyone?

Oh and why should our govmint policy be decided on what the Poms think of us.

[ford71V8]

Saw this video the other day.

[snap0964]

Bit ironic when you buy one of those green, polypropylene woolies bags.

The tag says don't wash, don't wet, only wipe with dry cloth.
Polypropylene is produced with a few toxic chemicals.

Plus the tag says made in Vietnam - no4 on that list shown earlier for polluting the oceans.

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by Cav

If a govmint wants to ban plastic bags for whatever reason then they need to ban all plastic bags..
Now is that acceptable to everyone?

It does seem to me a state based thing - NSW particularly seemed a hastily implemented thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen any Federal involvement in all of this (like there should've been).

[danzvtil]

SA has had this for a few years,now to make a few points:
If you want consumers to use less of something, charge them for it.
We had the exact same “won’t someone think of all the pensioners with nothing to line their bins with” arguments, seriously suck it up and stop whining like a little bitch.
I visit the grocery store at least 3 times per week and pay for 2 bags per time, these line my bins, I pay a whole 90 cents for the privledge.
I agree, reusable bags contain too much plastic for the intended purpose.
I don’t know why compostable bags weren’t made compulsory, they do exist.
Ultimately the bag ban works here in SA, we are backward in many ways, but plastic bag ban and container deposits are things we lead on and they work.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

SA has had this for a few years,now to make a few points:
If you want consumers to use less of something, charge them for it.
We had the exact same “won’t someone think of all the pensioners with nothing to line their bins with” arguments, seriously suck it up and stop whining like a little bitch.
I visit the grocery store at least 3 times per week and pay for 2 bags per time, these line my bins, I pay a whole 90 cents for the privledge.
I agree, reusable bags contain too much plastic for the intended purpose.
I don’t know why compostable bags weren’t made compulsory, they do exist.
Ultimately the bag ban works here in SA, we are backward in many ways, but plastic bag ban and container deposits are things we lead on and they work.

... And the best thing SA did was have a refundable 10 cent deposit and refund on most beverage containers and bottles in South Australia since 1977.

I wish other states took that initiative!

[olfella]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Lets ban plastic bags and replace them with plastic bags. Sounds like a great idea to me.

I don't know about the rest of you but we reuse the 'single' use bags at home as garbage bags. I guess we will just need to buy more single use garbage bags now.

The early adoption of this by the major supermarkets (in NSW) is just an easy way to pass the cost on to the consumer.

Yep something we used to get for free (built into cost of groceries) we now have to pay for.
As for them getting into the sea, well like global warming, Aus is going to fix all the worlds problems by not burning coal, which we produce and sell. Same with plakky bags, those pics posted previously are not from here. Would be good to see what the country of where they were taken is doing about the problem.

Finally, I now buy $2.50 kitchen tidy bags, thick and strong for 15. these fit my bins nicely. As I am the shopper for the family, I also pay the 15c each shop for the bags I used to get for free and then used for the kitchen bins. Do you know where all this thick plastic ends up? The same place that the thin bags used to go...

[olfella]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Oops that was supposed to be: "I agree it would be better to ban all plastic bags and go back to good old biodegradable brown paper bags made from recycled paper; all plastic bags pose an environmental pollution risk. People of my vintage would remember when things came in either waxed paper, brown paper bags, recycled newspapers or "butchers paper" (white or brown). It worked fine and was biodegradable and at least with the brown paper items was often made from recycled paper. There was also cellophane (made of wood pulp and cotton) which is 100% biodegradable. Of course it wasn't fault free; I suspect a lot of the recycling involved the used paper being used as fire lighting material for polluting wood stoves and heaters.

Have you seen the figures for the amount of energy used to make these alternatives? Even the thick reusable bags they sell for $1. If you concern is for the environment then it is worth looking up. For example 4 times the energy to make a paper bag as opposed to a thin plastic one.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by data_mine

Reducing plastic waste is only a good thing. I hope no one will disagree with that.

But this particular policy is tokenism at it's best.

We need to instead concentrate on what we'll be doing with all the recycling that China is no longer accepting - how much of that will just end up as landfill. But that's hard and expensive, so will be ignored for more token acts of meaninglessness.

Exactly. It is not Chinas problem. We bought and made the mess here so arn't we responsible for it? We cant go saying it is someones else fault because they will not process our crap. Take uranium. We dig it up and sell it but who's problem is the waste? Does this not belong to the user to make arrangements to get rid of/store it?