WQ Fiesta XR4 Diagnostics/OBD2 Reverse Engineering - Page 2

**Luke Plaizier** · 17-01-2021, 10:56 AM

So all ex-fiesta bits? nice.

The roof loom will be the only bit specific to the fiesta. Everything else can also be found in Focus/Mondeo/Transit - Switch, Sensor, Sensor Covers etc. The headlight switch with everything is one step above the Fiesta-with-auto-lights. The only real difference is that it includes a dimmer switch dial for the interior ambient lights, but it has a slightly different pinout at the back, so the dimming feature won't work in the Fiesta without some minor changes. There's a write-up about getting that to work at https://fiesta-mk6.pl/

Luke

**Luke Plaizier** · 17-01-2021, 11:19 AM

The 'Config and Programming' section of Forscan for the GEM - you can enable the Rain Sensor and the Autolamps in here. Plus a few other things....

Luke

Aaron · 17-01-2021, 11:30 AM

Yep all ex-Mk6 Fiesta bits, I decided “only live once” and just dropped the $150 posted on it. Probably a touch high, but not super unreasonable. I need to look at my mirror anyway as it’s a bit wobbly, so having a “spare” is good.

I hadn’t arced up GEM config in Forscan yet so didn’t realise it was literally a ON-OFF. Thought I’d be tweaking my AB file

Probably going to take 8 Covid weeks to get here so maybe by winter I’ll have it in

**Luke Plaizier** · 17-01-2021, 04:24 PM

Putting your switch in will be easier. The best I could find in Australia was the switch from the LS/LT Focus Cabrio. The LS Ghia had auto climate control and might have had auto wipers as well. I think for some reason they took some features away on the LT other than the Cabrio.

Also, when it comes time to mount the sensor we'll probably need a rain sensor pad to glue it on with. I imagine there's somewhere local that would supply them, but this is the best I could find on short notice:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-C-M...kAAOSwcapb8-5v

Luke

**Luke Plaizier** · 17-01-2021, 04:32 PM

I haven't been able to uncover any more on cruise control. The Focus connects the clutch/brake/throttle lines to the cluster which is why it has more pins. The cruise control buttons are fed to the GEM. The ECU on the Fiesta is the same hardware part number as the 2 Focus, so it might possible to flash the Fiesta ECU with a Focus program. So it is nothing like a BA Falcon which has all throttle and cruise inputs fed direct to the ECU and it can just be turned on - there are dependencies on other modules in the Focus that are not available in the fiesta. It's not clear if it's the IC, the GEM or the ECU that would have the Cruise Control algorithms in it - it could be any of them. Given the IC in the Mk6.5 has the Cruise light on it but it never comes on (is there an LED in behind it by any chance?) it looks like Cruise was pretty close. I'd not be suprised if what they were doingtowards the end of the Mk6 development rolled over into the Mk7 - or if the Mk7 inherited the Focus method. Perhaps I should investigate some Mk7 wiring diagrams with cruise and see how they did it?

Having said all that, the LS Focus cluster looks like it physically fits easily in the Fiesta, and I've seen snippets of someone that has put a whole Focus loom and electronics in a Mk6. But that just seems a step too far in the ludicrous direction.

Luke

**Luke Plaizier** · 17-01-2021, 04:53 PM

Even at a quick look I can see that the WS Fiesta has the pedal lines AND the speed control buttons all feed into the instrument cluster, and it has more than 32 pins, whereas the WQ cluster has 26.

Cruise in the mid 2000 Euro fords just doesn't seem consistent or elegant to me. A bit of a hack job. Aussie Falcons did it much better on the same hardware at the same time.

Luke

Aaron · 17-01-2021, 10:56 PM

I’ve been half-heartedly looking for the parts for a while, but really didn’t like the idea of getting half the parts and then being stuck without the covers etc.

The headlight switch in my car is probably a fair example of how they all are, and to say it’s considerably degraded - circuit bird wise - is an understatement, so you probably don’t want to have to make a lot of changes. As it is I’ll have to do the LED swap on the new one and this time not lose the detent ball on the headlight height adjuster

I’ll see what comes in the package, having spent only $150 for the lot adding a sensor pad isn’t going to break the bank and is a relatively low price for the uniqueness.

It looks to me like the sensor mounts below the painted shading based. Right where a toll-tag mount is on mine - so that’s got to come off.

The cruise thing is curious, Focus needs the IC and the GEM online to do Cruise Control. The IC is understandable because it supplies the 5v reference voltage and appears to process the TPS inputs from the throttle body. I had presumed the GEM was governing the actual availability of the function. But this was all in the days before Forscan and affordable IDS Clones so I never really dug deeper.

Obviously adding a cruise switch is much easier and cheaper than the $600ish that an aftermarket unit runs at.

While I’ve read posts where “factory” cruise control is talked about for the Mk6 in the UK I’ve not actually seen anything conclusive to say it’s real.

You’re right on one thing, Euro Fords are a little schizophrenic in configuration and design.

Aaron · 17-01-2021, 10:59 PM

I’m looking for a cheap used XR4 cluster to do some work on the LED swap. Will check the LEDs over the whole thing and see what’s populated. A few could be handily repurposed even if it means cutting traces and doing a specific sub-loom.

Aaron · 18-01-2021, 08:58 AM

https://youtu.be/r1nDKVVkwbc

Luke here’s a Cruise Install ;)

Aaron · 20-01-2021, 04:29 PM

Spent the big $6.61 for a sensor pad out of China

AU $6.00 26％ Off | For Car Rain Sensor Double Sided Transparent Glue Stickers Self Adhesive Front Windshield High Strength Heat Resistant Gel Pad

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mObhRXP

But of a punt but for the price of a coffee...

Aaron · 05-02-2021, 11:24 AM

The bundle of parts arrived which is awesome, as it turns out the mirror post is needed as it forms part of the retention for the rain sensor cover.

I’ll have to look up in the manual what method is used to attach the rain sensor. I have a feeling normally it’s a specific windscreen with a base or clip bonded on. I can mimic the painted zone with vinyl, and obviously then just need to work out how to attach the sensor.

Aaron · 06-02-2021, 02:19 PM

Next Problem:
Yes the windscreen is normally made with the bracket that the rain and light sensor clips into, and naturally along with that is a paint “mask”.

I’ve started fabricating retaining brackets and confirmed that the cover plate also holds some pressure on the back of the sensor.

The later “round” sensors used for the next generation Fiesta and Focus have a retainer that is available from Ford and as such would be a better choice if they’re electronically compatible with the GEM in the XR4.

There’s even a retrofit kit available.

Anyway for the moment I’ll use DS tape (well 3M bonding pads) to affix my brackets to the screen. The bracket system and the metal retainers need to press the silicon face of the sensor against the glass.

Aaron · 19-02-2021, 11:44 AM

Silicone adhesive pad arrived and will probably resolve the mounting problem.

It’s slightly bigger than the view port I’m putting on the glass so will need to be cut down. However it should help keep everything in place instead of me being reliant of my hand formed ABS brackets.

Aaron · 20-02-2021, 08:11 PM

Mask is in place.

Mirror post with clips for the cover attached to new mirror.

Aaron · 20-02-2021, 08:30 PM

It occurred to me today when looking over the wiring bundle that my car has a different set of plugs for the dome light than what’s in the loom that I received. So tomorrow’s game will be to unwrap and seperate the Rain/Light sensor wiring and then run this as a seperate run up to the mirror.

The important note in this is that the sensor is pretty much a standard 2.54mm pitch 3 pin arrangement with a bulkier body with lock etc. in other words you would really need the loom, just a bit of care.

Aaron · 27-02-2021, 10:20 PM

With Autoheadlights and Autowipers done (I’ll put all the gory details in a stand alone thread) it’s time to say Thanks Luke for the help getting this done.

Aaron · 03-03-2021, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

This is a link to my attempts to reverse-engineer the CAN-ID broadcast messages for our 2007 WQ Fiesta XR4. Work in progress, so it will change.

2007 WQ Ford Fiesta XR4/ST150 CAN IDs

Luke

If you're bored and need a challenge

The Clock display on the IC, I think it occupies the second row of the top half next to the outside temperature display?

It comes from the ACM aka Stereo. What I'm hoping is that it's still a simple message set with 5 characters. That would give us 8 characters on the top row and 4 usable (because the temp display needs a space to separate from whatever we show on the left.

Aaron · 14-03-2021, 06:50 PM

As it turns out the PCB used in these switches is common to Mondeo, Focus, Fiesta and Transit vans. And in a Transit van the switch activates Tell Tales for the Front and Rear foglight activation (if fitted to the vehicle).

The LEDs can be added (Green and Amber/Red) for front and rear respectively, but still don’t light until a pair of current limiting resistors are added to vacant pads (560R surface mount would do the trick) and bus bars added to connect to the switch.

The two LEDS are the center bottom (Rear) and bottom right (Green). The left two Bus bars on the upper right are added. Obviously one for front and one for the rear. On the reverse side it’s pretty easy to trace the tracks to see the pads where the resistors need to be added.

(And yes, I’ve also converted all the other LEDs to blue).

Aaron · 02-04-2021, 01:50 PM

Moving back to some CANBUS discussion. I’ve successfully been injecting 8 characters of text to the instrument cluster (MS BUS) but wanted to have a shot at injecting some Messages into the HS BUS to drive the Tach and Speedo while a cluster is on the bench.

So far Byte(0) of a 7 byte message to 0x201 gives tach movement. It’s 0 to 127 (decimal) value for the scale 0-8000rpm. Effectively:

Displayed RPM = Byte(0) * 63
or Byte(0) = Displayed RPM / 63

Speedometer is uses 2 Bytes further up the line but there’s some weird interaction between the two that vaguely reflects the sum of the Bytes - 40 (ish). ie 0x60 + 0x04 = 180, and the displayed speed is not too far off being 140kmh

Lots more work to be done but an encouraging start.

Aaron · 02-04-2021, 04:37 PM

Switched things around a bit. The Tacho, Speedo and Temp dials can be controlled through CANBUS - I changed direction and started using proper Mather through HEX byte values and achieved linear operation although the Speedo still has a “get no tickets” margin that’s probably all about the needle position.

My test harness gives me control of the Brake Fluid level warning and the back lights. Fuel and Ambient Temp are derived from resistors so I will have to read the manual and get some suitable.

For the moment this is all I need to do as the objective was to make a small piece of hardware that would allow quick calibration of the needles when reassembling the clusters.

**Luke Plaizier** · 02-04-2021, 08:50 PM

<Cough> Cruise Control Jewel </Cough> ....

Lukeyson

Aaron · 02-04-2021, 10:35 PM

Would you believe there’s someone in Europe who’s pulled a bunch of HSCAN messages for a Mk6 Fiesta and they mention cruise control?

I will spend a bit more time Googling up crazy ideas and trying them. It wouldn’t be terrible to be able to light the jewel for cruise, or upshift

The Cluster is quite interesting as it also gets a crank signal which it uses to determine if there should be oil pressure or not. At the same time it only activates the check of PATS during cranking.

Also for anyone curious or worried, the 0x201 messages drive the tacho and Speedo, but not the odometer

Aaron · 04-04-2021, 12:19 PM

Some more useful links:

http://sergeyk.kiev.ua/avto/ford_CAN_bus/

https://github.com/roncapat/Ford-Fiesta-MK5-MS-CAN-bus

Note that in a lot of these cases the cluster generates the CANBUS messages based on wired inputs from other parts of the car.

Aaron · 07-04-2021, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

<Cough> Cruise Control Jewel </Cough> ....

Lukeyson

I think I’ll make a couple of typical Ford Focus/Mondeo/Fiesta etc resistor arrays to mimic the “Cruise On” button press, then try them on the couple of pins that aren’t “occupied” with anything according to the wiring diagrams. We’d still need to find the bit to flip if any of those button presses create a thing...

The way the system is described for a Focus retrofit is that the buttons get added, then the cluster gets stimulated to push a CAN message about the button press, but because it’s not “enabled” no action is taken.

It may be like your power steering discovery that the basic code exists in the cluster, but was never implemented. There’s sufficient evidence that the cluster has a set of messages that relate to both current throttle position and throttle demand and it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to imply that the cluster under a Cruise On/Enabled situation would become the the intercept point to marry up current/target speed, throttle position and required throttle position.

Aaron · 11-04-2021, 09:42 AM

Abandoned the “Factory” Cruise control path after trying and looking for hidden codes, for other Ford models around the same era, also tried stimulating the “spare” pins on the cluster etc.

I do think that the cluster face was designed to accomodate a factory cruise control, but it’s definitely not being triggered/operated the same way as other Fords (and while I’m sure the jewel could be activated with a CAN Message I couldn’t find the CAN message).

The Cluster PCB has two unused Pins (13 & 26) which I couldn’t get any life from. Interestingly vehicles with a factory cruise that’s able to be activated have more pins on the cluster connector, and ultimately that’s where the cruise switches are connected. Typically it’s a single wire with varied momentary buttons giving different resistance paths. That and there’s more linkage to the throttle body wiring in these cars.

This leads me to think that in a Fiesta the GEM or ECU would be doing the cruise control function. There are CAN messages others have decided on the bus that reflect an ability for the Fiesta to have a commanded throttle position (% open), a commanded torque output (%) and torque requested (which I presume is a calculation from engine load and throttle position). This implies to my logic that a piece of hardware/software in the car could equally make a torque demand decision to maintain a target speed.

Anyway, I’ve ordered a CanM8 cruise control system out of the UK. I’ll keep plugging away with the cluster experiments for a while (once some new Arduino gear arrives) in the hope I can piggy back in some messages like “SET xxxx“ with the set speed on the cluster and light the jewel when the system is on and active.

Other cluster messaging is a bit “meh” in practice. It can be done, but is a bit of a case of “that’s a neat trick, but what is actually useful”. So far haven’t found anything that significantly makes the ahhhaa moment.

**Luke Plaizier** · 16-04-2021, 10:49 AM

Having a bit of a read through this thread, I noticed I had never pasted the results of my success in getting the EHPAS to power up on the bench.

There's a similar message to turn on the EATC as well.

All of these messages, by the way, are sent already by the current XR4 modules, so once installed they will all power up. For the EHPAS, however, the question still remains as to whether the Fiesta messages for speed will be useable by the Focus pump controller or not. I have already seen quite a difference in the message scaling for the Fiesta and Focus road speeds in msg 080.

Lukeyson

Aaron · 16-04-2021, 05:58 PM

Yes that’s the magic glue between models, each cluster/model seems to have slightly different maths rules for getting human readable units for what is arguably the “same thing”.

It’s like the Fiesta does 23.7 biscotti per doodleyard and a Focus does 18.6 Snugletrumpets per hexofoot.

However, if you get stuck my Arduino discoveries are proving that it’s pretty run it’s and being able to ingest and regurgitate messages easily. So you could effectively use one as a bridge (like the cluster acts as a bridge between HS and MS CAN)

**Luke Plaizier** · 16-04-2021, 11:06 PM

For many implementations, a single CAN controller on Arduino would suffice as it can receive and retransmit messages on the same bus lines. But if the intent is to hide the original 080 message and write a new one, or repeat some other messages with rescaled content, 2 x CAN controllers on an Arduino are needed. To be honest I never did get around to doing the Arduino testing I intended to do, so you have leapfrogged me Mr Mihe. But where I was at before the blinking lights and butterflies took my attention away, was trying to understand how one of the Arduino CAN libraries I have could be used for multiple CAN controllers. The other, given how simple Arduino loops are, was how to time the messages on the CAN bus correctly when there are more than one message type to send.....

In the meantime, the butterflies have drawn me to welding up towball adapters for my Tractor front bucket, converting my caravan from 1 x 9Kg lpg to dual lpg, welding on 2nd jockey wheel brackets and cradles for the car hookup plugs, completely rebuilding and repainting the caravan suspension and braking system and all of the 12V wiring, rebuilding the cabinets with sliding shelves, rebuilding my push mower after the chassis split at one of the axles, 3D printing a new handle for my whipper shipper after it snapped in half, drawing up and printing prototypes for alternate XR4 centre caps and also caps for the caravan Sunraysia wheels (not all of them aesthetically pleasing mind you, but it's fun trying), making when-not-it-use caravan fridge door hold-open latches, creating and installing new hinge cover seals to keep the caravan beds dry, re-lacquering all my wooden outdoor furniture after copping a water pounding this last summer, and mowing my yard seemingly twice a week..... all the while looking longingly at the beaten up 3 door Fister shell on stands waiting patiently for my attention.... which I might be able to make a small move on soon as I need the space for someones upcoming 50th and need to make it watertight....

Lukeyson

**Luke Plaizier** · 16-04-2021, 11:09 PM

The good news after all that is that Winter is Coming - and I can get a whole lot more done in the man cave when I'm not covered in litres of sweat....

Lukeyson

Aaron · 16-04-2021, 11:56 PM

Yes, you’d have to run two basic interfaces from the one Arduino to give the separation, timing I think would be less critical for such a defined set of messages.

From what I can see the Arduino is easily swamped if you want it to process and “do” something in response to every message but it does OK at listening and reacting to messages. My hacked together code also isn’t set to time the inserted messages correctly, although the repetition of messages is pretty good. This stuff isn’t my forte and I muddle through but it’s an interesting project.

Before the great smoking Arduino incident I was using one to inject HS data into the cluster and another to read the MS data coming out of the cluster to to confirm the translation behaviour. For the cluster LCD message games it’s a challenge because all the cool data is on HS but the LCD messages are written on MS so to make a useful gadget I would need to run dual bus interfaces.

I had some new gear turn up this week so I’m hoping to build up a new test jig.

The cluster does have a lot of smarts, but your assertion that an aftermarket ECU could drive it is 100% true. It also is the analog to CAN bridge for ambient air temp and the fuel level. Once the factory ECU is jettisoned you may assume the cluster would “lock” due to PATS but it seems that the GEM and cluster aren’t impacted by the theft system, although they form part of the system.

I think the lower end Haltech units now have CAN enabled which would make a programmable ECU a very affordable option. I may have a read of their manuals just to see whether the messaging could be configured to suit what we know.