|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
04-06-2023, 04:18 AM | #31 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
I think a lot of posters are getting a little ahead of themselves over this, are you ****ers all turning a bit 'woke'
Roberts-Smith has lost a defamation case, he was NEVER tried for war crimes, settle the **** down When and IF the time comes and 'they' decide to charge him with war crimes and IF he is found guilty then all you Karen's can have a cry, until then STFU Innocent until proven guilty. The 'legal requirements' for a civil case are a lot lower than a criminal case. Let's just see the outcome of a criminal case before we all jump to conclusions And IF Australia gets involved in another overseas conflict I expect some of you nay-sayers to be at the front of the line queuing up to join the ADF and put your toes into the theatre of war
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
||
9 users like this post: |
04-06-2023, 07:14 AM | #32 | ||
WT GT
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The GSS
Posts: 17,773
|
|
||
04-06-2023, 08:43 AM | #33 | |||||||
HSV - I just ate one!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,170
|
Quote:
Quote:
Going to go see an army recruiter on monday so you can do your bit to lead by example then? Quote:
Its the politicians people vote in that start the wars the troops get sent off to fight in, something too often forgotten down the track when the troops return home to a public who would rather blame the troops than the men in suits that started it all. Quote:
Quote:
My take on this, is that a whole lot of people who dont have the hide to step up to the front line where bad things happen are freely allowed to attack those who ARE willing to put their lives on the line, and do so with the protection of highly paid legal teams. It disappoints me to see soldiers turning their back on their brothers, the same men every soldier needs to be able to trust and depend on when the world is at its worst The media and bleating hearts talk a big game saying that our soldiers need to be held to a higher standard, but they never say a word about the barbarism and atrocities our troops so often have leveled against them. War is hell, and expecting our troops to step up to the enemy singing kumbaya with their hands tied behind their backs will only mean a steady flow of coffins being flown home. Anyone who supports that needs to be held accountable for the death of each and every soldier who doesnt come home alive. If you're going to go to war against an enemy that holds no respect for others, no value in human life, and is willing to commit atrocities against their own people just to ensure support for their own ways, the ONLY way to beat them is to be the bigger bastard at their own game. The difference? Having the humanity to bring peace to the land once the fighting is done. Thats the difference between being civilised people, and barbarians. Peace is not brought by those who live by peaceful ways, its brought by those who are willing to use violence when it is required.
__________________
I dont care if some prius driving eco-hippy thinks its politically incorrect for me to drive a V8..... I'm paying for the fuel! |
|||||||
04-06-2023, 11:04 AM | #34 | ||
WT GT
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The GSS
Posts: 17,773
|
|
||
This user likes this post: |
04-06-2023, 10:34 PM | #35 | |||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
|
Quote:
You volunteer..you are complicit. It's all about the taxfree money and benefits. Hope that clears it up for you.
__________________
Please press the "Like" button if you enjoy my posts. (It's the red triangle with exclamation mark on the left) |
|||
This user likes this post: |
05-06-2023, 05:24 AM | #36 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
If some of the 'woke' on here thinks that no Australian ADF person has ever committed a war crime, from our first involvement in wars on then you are dreaming, it goes on on all sides, no one side is exempt.
It is called 'war' and really ****ty things happen And with returned ADF personnel making up a huge percentage of suicide deaths, from **** like this that is being written on social media about them by idiots who know nothing of 'war', you 'woke' lot need to hang your ****ing heads in shame. You are a ****ing embarrassment According to you lot BRS is guilty before he has even been charged - what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
||
5 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 08:17 AM | #37 | ||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,386
|
Whatever people views are on this issue Trev, I don't think calling people woke contributes anything, and certainly nothing positive.
Noting that "woke" is defined (see https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke) as: "being aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)", I would be proud to be called woke. Using it in a disrespectful way or to denigrate people seems to be just a bit of Trump-like verbal bullying or name calling. This is obviously a controversial issue, but everyone on both sides is entitled to their views so lets keep it so keep it polite and mutually respectful. I'm still sitting on the fence until there is further clarification although at this point it doesn't look good for BRS or perhaps even the culture in the part of ADF where he served.
__________________
regards Blue Last edited by aussiblue; 05-06-2023 at 08:25 AM. |
||
6 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 08:21 AM | #38 | |||
Donating Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hunter Valley
Posts: 4,277
|
Quote:
Would you be willing to uproot your family/girlfriend/boyfriend up every 2-4 years to move from state to state? Would you be willing to spend weeks at a time away from your family? Many that claim they could rarely last the first term of enlistment before its all too hard for them. A lot dont even get that far bailing at 'rookies'. Would you serve your country if needed or would you and others of your ilk would be on the first planes and ships out if here of war broke out? Fighting the good fight from a keyboard overseas ensuring that those behind play by your rules regardless of what the other sides doing? Part of Defence is fighting overseas in wars we dont understand or believe we should partake in. Those wars, as callous as it sounds, also provide 'real time' training. I cant defend or support the allegations bought about by the media, I wasnt there and the media has a horrible habit of unbalanced, selective, sensationist and half truth to flat out lies in reporting and but I understand why it happens and the culture of Defence and why its necessary to have soldiers like Roberts-Smith should we ever need them. |
|||
5 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 09:43 AM | #39 | ||
T3/Sprint8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,550
|
well said Mesa well said.
None condone any wrong doing when at the cold face - meaning us fortunate enough not in the armed forces. I've learnt alot from a good mate of mine who has been in the ADF most of his life. Just as Mesa mentioned enlisted soldiers with their families are living state to state its not a great family life and to say all about tax free money and benefits that is 2/5ths of F all what they earn is disgusting to say, yes they volunteer and THANK CHRIST for that ! The Gov's cost cutting the last 10/15yrs is appalling I feel very sorry for them for I see what my mate has gone through and not even a million bucks is worth the mental health issues, seeing or hearing of mates suiciding, problems compounding with not enough understanding for themselves let alone their family. My mate has huge anger issues, I've seen it many times over the years over a random thing, a switch just suddenly pops, his 3 kids used to be afraid of him let alone his wife. Thankfully they understand and got through alot without actual violence but they are all scared, these poor men and women are walking time bombs. Ifeel for all those in the armed forces for we here don't give them enough credit let alone support but I'm heartened seeing some posts here. There's one thing I've always admired about the Yanks, Thankyou for your SERVICE. Why we have never picked this up here astounds me yet we pick up useless other plastic traits.
__________________
Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
||
5 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 11:02 AM | #40 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 899
|
Quote:
Getting away from the BRS controversy for a bit, it seems that some of the comments on here are from members who have no idea about wearing an ADF uniform. Typical of the civilian public. When there are fires and floods, they ask "Where is the Army ?" in the belief that there are thousands of them just sitting around watching TV or playing cards, with billions of dollars of specific firefighting and swift water rescue equipment sitting idle. As for social media misinformation, during the COVID lockdowns, when the ADF were assisting NSW Police, I couldn't get over the reports of armed Army personnel pulling people from their homes during the night and forcibly vaccinating them. WTF ! ! WW1 and WW2 veterans were treated and respected as heroes. For the past 60 years since they have been ignored, denigrated and vilified. For the forum whingers ......... join up, now, and enjoy the tax-free pay, free clothing, free food, and free housing and accommodation that you seem to think ADF members receive. You could be disappointed. |
|||
6 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 11:27 AM | #41 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
Quote:
As has been said a number of times the burden of proof are a lot lower in a civil case (which this was) versus a criminal case (yet to be held) Want some case history, albeit American? O J Simpson went to criminal trial for the murder of his wife, there was not enough evidence (burden of proof) for him to be convicted, so found not guilty. His wife's family took it to civil court (they sued him personally) and won. I know the law here is very different, but the example is relevant And to make the point AGAIN!!!!, he lost a DEFAMATION case, no charges of any crime to do with his time serving in the ADF have been laid - people need to stop the speculating bull-****. They were NOT in Afghanistan when these ALLEGED crimes took place so they need to STFU
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
|||
This user likes this post: |
05-06-2023, 11:30 AM | #42 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
Quote:
The only 'tax free' benefits happen when they serve in war like conditions, best to check you facts ol' son https://pay-conditions.defence.gov.a.../part-5b/div-3 https://wealthvisory.com.au/defence-...ltimate-guide/
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
|||
3 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 11:45 AM | #43 | |||
T3/Sprint8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,550
|
Quote:
As has been mentioned politics/pollies that bring on going to war, let alone the pollies past to present can't manage to run a chook raffle at home supporting past troops/vets. At least alot of US public give a walking by vet a Thankyou, we can't even do that but they read the medias agendas then make comment amongst themselves having a latte.
__________________
Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
|||
3 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 12:03 PM | #44 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,918
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rides (past and present) Current: 2004 Ford Falcon 5.4L 3v Barra 220, Manual Past: Mitsubishi Sigma (m), Toyota Seca (m), Toyota Seca SX (m), Toyota Vienta V6 (m), Toyota Soarer 4L v8 (a), BA XR8 ute (m), T3 TE50 (m), BMW Z4 (m) AFF motto - If contrary views trigger, please use ignore button. |
|||||
This user likes this post: |
05-06-2023, 12:18 PM | #45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
Where is the outcry here about Ukraine or about any other conflict, civil or not where hundreds if not thousands of innocents are being killed right now
So, tell me again how many hundreds, thousands of innocent civillians is it ALLEDGED to gave killed again How many innocent citizens of ours have been killed in conflicts oveseas, where is the outrage? ****ing hypocrites,getting sucked by the MSM
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
||
2 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 12:28 PM | #46 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,918
|
Quote:
You do realise there is currently an arrest warrant out for the the leader of a certain nation for War Crimes?
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rides (past and present) Current: 2004 Ford Falcon 5.4L 3v Barra 220, Manual Past: Mitsubishi Sigma (m), Toyota Seca (m), Toyota Seca SX (m), Toyota Vienta V6 (m), Toyota Soarer 4L v8 (a), BA XR8 ute (m), T3 TE50 (m), BMW Z4 (m) AFF motto - If contrary views trigger, please use ignore button. |
|||
This user likes this post: |
05-06-2023, 12:38 PM | #47 | |||
HSV - I just ate one!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,170
|
Quote:
Or do you really believe they wont hide in amongst the civilian population waiting for an opportune time to strike? Its unpalatable to many in the western world to tell the locals "Yes, we know they've threatened you with XXXXX if you dont help them, but if you do, we WILL do much, MUCH worse", but promising to build schools and hospitals isnt much comfort to the locals when they know the taliban wont leave anyone alive in their village to see those promises come to life.
__________________
I dont care if some prius driving eco-hippy thinks its politically incorrect for me to drive a V8..... I'm paying for the fuel! |
|||
05-06-2023, 01:56 PM | #48 | ||||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,386
|
Quote:
As this article says: https://www.murdoch.edu.au/news/arti...d-of-the-story Quote:
__________________
regards Blue |
||||
This user likes this post: |
05-06-2023, 03:10 PM | #49 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
You do know what MSM means?
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
||
05-06-2023, 03:12 PM | #50 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
and no such arrest warranr for BRS is there?
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
||
05-06-2023, 03:16 PM | #51 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
Quote:
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
|||
05-06-2023, 05:14 PM | #52 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,918
|
Quote:
Quote:
You can blame MSM all you like, no fan of them here either, but in this instance they won, and were found not to have defamed. You don't have to accept it, its your prerogative, but thats where it stands today. There is a right of appeal, lets see what happens tomorrow? I have a lot of respect for Cav, he started this thread in good faith, so lets not get too hysterical and get the thread shut. Quote:
In the scenario you are talking about, its not against the rules....so I've been told. Where you have credible intel indicating there is a legitimate target in a civilian area, and you got it wrong, and innocent people died, its collateral damage and you will not have broken any rules. Yes, I do have a couple of mates in the ADF, and also a close ex work colleague of mine has a brother in law who served with the SAS in Iraq, so you get to hear stories passed down, and its a big smacking dose of reality.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rides (past and present) Current: 2004 Ford Falcon 5.4L 3v Barra 220, Manual Past: Mitsubishi Sigma (m), Toyota Seca (m), Toyota Seca SX (m), Toyota Vienta V6 (m), Toyota Soarer 4L v8 (a), BA XR8 ute (m), T3 TE50 (m), BMW Z4 (m) AFF motto - If contrary views trigger, please use ignore button. |
|||||
This user likes this post: |
05-06-2023, 05:22 PM | #53 | |||
WT GT
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The GSS
Posts: 17,773
|
Roberts-Smith, witnesses not ‘honest and reliable’, court finds
Quote:
|
|||
05-06-2023, 06:05 PM | #54 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
Maybe he and others lied, BUT he hasn't been charged with a criminal offence nor has been found guilty of any offence
I seriously don't know why people are struggling with this
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
||
This user likes this post: |
05-06-2023, 06:12 PM | #55 | ||
WT GT
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The GSS
Posts: 17,773
|
Ben Roberts-Smith may have committed criminal offence, judge in defamation trial finds
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-...inds/102441430 |
||
05-06-2023, 06:16 PM | #56 | ||
WT GT
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The GSS
Posts: 17,773
|
Kit Messham-Muir | What should the Australian War Memorial do with its portraits of Ben Roberts-Smith?
Following the ruling, much public debate has focused on what the Australian War Memorial should do with Robert-Smith's uniform, helmet and other artefacts of his on display. Greens senator David Shoebridge called for the removal of these objects from public display to correct the official record and "to begin telling the entire truth of Australia's involvement in that brutal war." The topic of what to do with Roberts-Smith's uniform and helmet was debated on ABC's Insiders yesterday: should the display be removed, effectively cancelled, or changed to tell the full story? https://theconversation.com/what-sho...roberts-smith/ |
||
05-06-2023, 06:27 PM | #57 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
Again 'woke' people calling for blood with no criminal outcome
The media need to stop giving these ****ers a voice. I wonder if they think how they would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, but probably they just wouldn't get it
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
||
2 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 06:29 PM | #58 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
Quote:
I don't know why you are pushing this, it is just all speculation and innuendo without a trial to test the judges words
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
|||
This user likes this post: |
05-06-2023, 06:35 PM | #59 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
|
I really wonder what all you naysayers will do if the DPP or whoever decide there is not enough evidence to secure a conviction and not press any charges
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
|
||
2 users like this post: |
05-06-2023, 07:16 PM | #60 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,070
|
|
||