Good On Ya Holden - Page 2

wrongwaynorris · 22-07-2011, 01:10 PM

3 to 4 mm is massively dangerous as after one big application there will be nothing on the next if soon after the first .

kaniSS · 22-07-2011, 01:22 PM

I don't really see the problem here maybe the mechanic saw something he didn't like. Maybe they are screwing you for a new pair of pads but I would be more than happy to replace my pads if they where half eaten. Even 1/4 eaten.

burnz · 22-07-2011, 01:37 PM

most pads are 10mm thick when new aren't they??

so half worn...

Gavin Thomas · 22-07-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

3 to 4 mm is massively dangerous as after one big application there will be nothing on the next if soon after the first .

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On average most NEW dics pads are approx 8~10mm thick. 12mm if the manufacturer is generous.Obviously more Hi performance vehicles with bigger brakes will most likely have thicker pad material as well - but i doupt that you would find many with pads thicker than 15mm....So by your maths even if the new pads were 12mm+ you would get less than 5 "big" stops ?

( As Pauline Hanson might ask - "Please explain" if i have mis-read the info in your above statement ? )...And as for the thickness of the remaining material, it's not the main limiting factor in regards to brake fade - as even new pads can be made to fade under excessive hard / "big" brake applications. The actual compound of the pad material is a bigger factor than the overall thickness.

In my day to day profession, i have found on average that the normal expected life of the average front disc pad is conservatively 60K. This is based on recommending they be replaced at approx 80% worn. Usually they are touching the "squealers" by approx 90% worn. ( NOTE = "squealers" are the small strip of steel that is fitted to the pads, which is designed to touch the disc rotor when only about 1.5~2mm of pad material is remaining. At this point it will emit a very high pitched squealing noise to alert the driver to this concern. The vast majority of all new vehicles for the last 10+ years have this feature built in ).

So in short what i am saying is that the facts are that at 3~4mm of remaining pad material, this would equate to the average pad being approx 60~70% worn - which in my profession opinion is definately not dangerous at all in any sense. In actual fact the pad should easily still be good & safe for at least another 5K. ( Which should cover a few more than 5 "big" stops hey,

)

In regards to the OP's original story - if what has been stated is true, then i would suspect that most likely a early stage apprentice has diognosed & carried out the full job. As the old pads were put in the vehicle for the customer to see, it would seem very likely that the person who did the job believed that they were doing the right thing & had nothing "untoward" to try & cover up or hide. This being the case, would back up my apprentice theroy as any 1/2 decent qualified Mechanic would know how to accurately calculate pad wear & service as required....

Also being a dealership, the ratio of apprentices is high, & they cover most of the bread & butter servicing work. Unfortunately not always with the required level of Qualified supervision. That's just they way the majority operate.

I reckon it was a genuine oversight from the service department - the person doing the job proberly believed they were doing the right thing. Hopefully the senior staff above have now raised the concern with him so he can learn & move forward. Unfortunately it was at your expense & their "profit" - this being the case they have really only partly reimbursed your old man. He shouldn't have had to push anything at all - the dealer should have fully worn their oversight & given total refund. And if they were really at the top of their service standards on the front line, then the service advisor / manager would maybe offer a free car wash or discount on next service etc.

Cheers guys.....

Gavin Thomas · 22-07-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

most pads are 10mm thick when new aren't they??

so half worn...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My excessive post took so long that in the mean time you have replied & won the prize for the most correct answer,

302 XC · 22-07-2011, 04:26 PM

Oh and here i was thinking,
When mum in law got her car serviced and the radiator had crack a few inches,that a ,
"Radiator will need replacing soon"
Comment was on the receipt

Or the car just had a full service and the washer bottle wasnt full,or heavens forbid,it didnt work

Its alright she only 70 odd years young
And relies on her car daily

Any half wit mechanic would have pointed out the crack,it seaps soon as your start it

Maybe i should jump up and down, for an undersight !!!

A mechanic being over cautious !!!!

I wouldnt complain about that

MITCHAY · 22-07-2011, 06:01 PM

I have had this experience with my car. I'm rather direct with questioning these things now when I have services.

My problem I have these days is they don't tell me about replacing things until I pick it up so I have to organize to get it done later even though I specifically say to call me!

XR227 · 22-07-2011, 06:41 PM

After reading the comments posted, I realize now that being over cautious
is a good thing when concerning brakes. However, my dad has his stock
standard car serviced twice a year at the same place he bought it, and drives like an old mole and is nearly 80 y/o. Surely they must now that brake pads last a bit longer than six months.
I must admit i was fuming when me mate told me the pads weren't even
half worn, probably due to the fact of so many problems i have had with Ford servicing my car.
I was lucky for a while after i bought my new car, one of my mates knew the
mechanic who worked at the service department. You could nominate which mechanic worked on your car, so i always picked him. No complaints, and
usually came out to say G'day.
As Soon as he left, there was usually something not done or wrong.
Now i know apprentices have to learn, but somethings are just so obvious.
Yeah they always say bring it back, sorry about that. But a lot of people have a **** fight trying to organize a lift back home, traveling distance
to the service department, time off work etc. So its get em in and get em out policy i reckon.
Have heard some good stories tho, at certain service departments.
But i will never go back for another. Cheers everyone.

Ben73 · 22-07-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaniSS

I don't really see the problem here maybe the mechanic saw something he didn't like. Maybe they are screwing you for a new pair of pads but I would be more than happy to replace my pads if they where half eaten. Even 1/4 eaten.

1/4 worn is a bit over the top don't you think.

gtxb67 · 22-07-2011, 09:16 PM

while i would love to put down all things holden, at least they put the original pads back in the box. if they were real dodgy, they could have found an old set of pads that were cactus and put them in the box
they wouldn't be the first to do that - from personal experience they do not always show you, the piece that came off your car

Franco Cozzo · 22-07-2011, 09:32 PM

When I was at the dealership, I'd be working with the mechanics and most of them would say that brakepads with 2mm left where "good for another few thousand kilometers", I wouldn't want to risk it if I was the customer. Plus everyone drives differently, a friend's mum goes through pads every service because of the way she drives.

Just replace them I reckon, brakes and tyres are someting I wouldn't want to skimp out on

Dealership is out there to make money, they make some money on the cars they sell but the service department is their life blood, they make more money from service and spare parts in the long run. I remember a father took her daughter and her car in for the service, and we noticed that wiperblades where streaking, front pads where a bit low, the desk jockeys in the service department suggested a power steering flush and aircon deodorise (Biggest scam out there I reckon, both of them, people fall for it every service) and they rang up the daughter and of course she said yes to everything.

The old man was paying the bill unfortunately and he was thinking minor service, he sees:

$245 for a set of front pads
$80 for front wiper blades
$50 for power steering flush
$220 for minor service

He freaked out, big time.

I don't service my cars at a dealership, not because of cost but because I know the dodgy crap that goes on in those workshops having worked there, and I mean some real dodgy stuff. I go for a reputable trusted local mechanic

290v · 22-07-2011, 10:05 PM

A guy at my work bought a brand new VE ute SV6 with a factory sports bar. the bar wasn't fitting properly so after 1,000 Kms took the car back and complained about the fitting of it they replaced it with another one which was worse than the last one. so they took that one off and sent it away for repairs it has been 4 months now he went back to find out how long it would take to get back the service centre person said how long is a piece of string WRONG ANSWER

svo supporter · 22-07-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

while i would love to put down all things holden, at least they put the original pads back in the box. if they were real dodgy, they could have found an old set of pads that were cactus and put them in the box
they wouldn't be the first to do that - from personal experience they do not always show you, the piece that came off your car

How true. People are quick to beach about shonky service, but don't think ahead. This is a good examle of dealer honesty, yet people are quick to flame them. A big tick of approval goes to the mod, for common sense.

As for distance left in them. One thing I have learnt is you can't put a mileage figure on how long tyres will last, nor brake will last. Everyone is different. The service person wouldn't have known the owner was 80 years old. For all he knew, it was a 17 year old, therefore he could be as hard as guts on brakes.

blownv8au · 23-07-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin Thomas

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On average most NEW dics pads are approx 8~10mm thick. 12mm if the manufacturer is generous.Obviously more Hi performance vehicles with bigger brakes will most likely have thicker pad material as well - but i doupt that you would find many with pads thicker than 15mm....So by your maths even if the new pads were 12mm+ you would get less than 5 "big" stops ?

( As Pauline Hanson might ask - "Please explain" if i have mis-read the info in your above statement ? )...And as for the thickness of the remaining material, it's not the main limiting factor in regards to brake fade - as even new pads can be made to fade under excessive hard / "big" brake applications. The actual compound of the pad material is a bigger factor than the overall thickness.

In my day to day profession, i have found on average that the normal expected life of the average front disc pad is conservatively 60K. This is based on recommending they be replaced at approx 80% worn. Usually they are touching the "squealers" by approx 90% worn. ( NOTE = "squealers" are the small strip of steel that is fitted to the pads, which is designed to touch the disc rotor when only about 1.5~2mm of pad material is remaining. At this point it will emit a very high pitched squealing noise to alert the driver to this concern. The vast majority of all new vehicles for the last 10+ years have this feature built in ).

So in short what i am saying is that the facts are that at 3~4mm of remaining pad material, this would equate to the average pad being approx 60~70% worn - which in my profession opinion is definately not dangerous at all in any sense. In actual fact the pad should easily still be good & safe for at least another 5K. ( Which should cover a few more than 5 "big" stops hey,

)

In regards to the OP's original story - if what has been stated is true, then i would suspect that most likely a early stage apprentice has diognosed & carried out the full job. As the old pads were put in the vehicle for the customer to see, it would seem very likely that the person who did the job believed that they were doing the right thing & had nothing "untoward" to try & cover up or hide. This being the case, would back up my apprentice theroy as any 1/2 decent qualified Mechanic would know how to accurately calculate pad wear & service as required....

Also being a dealership, the ratio of apprentices is high, & they cover most of the bread & butter servicing work. Unfortunately not always with the required level of Qualified supervision. That's just they way the majority operate.

I reckon it was a genuine oversight from the service department - the person doing the job proberly believed they were doing the right thing. Hopefully the senior staff above have now raised the concern with him so he can learn & move forward. Unfortunately it was at your expense & their "profit" - this being the case they have really only partly reimbursed your old man. He shouldn't have had to push anything at all - the dealer should have fully worn their oversight & given total refund. And if they were really at the top of their service standards on the front line, then the service advisor / manager would maybe offer a free car wash or discount on next service etc.

Cheers guys.....

Top post mate, hit the nail on the head a few times.

drew`SEVNT5 · 23-07-2011, 08:18 PM

Id prefer to replace them before they were due, myself.

PSI.030 · 23-07-2011, 09:07 PM

Holden fail

Gavin Thomas · 23-07-2011, 09:24 PM

It take it you mean before they are due to go "metal to metal"....
This is obvious mate - everyone is on the same page in regards to that.
It's more so at what percentage of wear do you replace....?

In general, myself and many Mechanics would recommend re-newal at approx the 80% worn mark. ( ie, when advising a customer ). The reason being that they have a fair safety margin if they choose not to replace on the day. Also they will then have approx 10% left before the next warning which is the metal squealer strips. ( if fitted - as most modern vehicle are ).

All the above also covers the *** of the mechanic advising the owner, as they really have fair notice in 2 stages of pending required brake work.

The range here in this thread from some has been to replace from as little as only 25~50% worn & upwards from there. It can be good to sometimes err on the side of caution -fine - but at only 25% worn, that could be considered a little paranoid !

Just a little bit of common dog dodo is all that's required really.

Cheers.....

ILLaViTaR · 23-07-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAForce8

I can't believe there are people on here justifying, either in part or in full, the behaviour of this workshop. Thats a scum bag act on an old fella, pure and simple. To top it off how hard would he have to be on his brakes to need them changed before the next service?

It's cause they're all mad right wing baby boomers lol, been through this condescending crap in many a thread, something with a clear right and wrong suddenly becomes controversial because certain people feel entitled to their "rights" which in reality is simply their defense mechanism for sugar coating their greed..

Absolutely disgusting he has to pay for new pads he already had.

So he's $70+ out of pocket solely because a workshop's tried to rip him off?? (A mistake??? don't make me laugh) Not only that but the workshop just gets to decide (who are they to?) that they're not going to be out of pocket period despite their mistake and losing profit on labour is as far as they're willing to go. So let the customer we cheated foot the bill for our incompetence......
They should be compensating him for the mere nerve of attempting to cheat the bloke.

ILLaViTaR · 23-07-2011, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airmon

Sounds like alright service. There was an issue and they came to the party, apologized and offered a solution.
They could have thrown the old pads out and you'd be none the wiser.

Completely wrong.

Gavin Thomas · 23-07-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

.....So he's $70+ out of pocket solely because a workshop's tried to rip him off?? (A mistake??? don't make me laugh.....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mate, i'm not defending or justifying that dealership at all in any way - but i would suggest that if it was a total money grabbing rip off, or they were being dis-honest, then i would find it very weird / stupid that they would put the "evidence" in the car for the owner to plainly see,

I do agree that they should have given a full refund though - and even a sweetener of some sort to make amends.

FYI = i'm from generation X, so i'll take it i'm exempt from your "mad right wing baby boomer" comment.

ILLaViTaR · 23-07-2011, 10:32 PM

Edit Deleted

kpcart · 24-07-2011, 05:54 AM

i have to say, i admire that this thread did not become a holden bashing thread, and that other people including ford people offered similiar stories.

spebgtsprint · 24-07-2011, 10:12 AM

IMO at the end of the day, if you choose to take your vehicle to an "Authorized Factory Dealer" you will pay alot more.

They have stupendous overheads compared to a smaller independant mechanic.

I have a couple of mates who are independant mechanics and I only use them, as I personally know them well after dealing with them for such a long time. And I know that they will only charge me for what I actually require.

And they don't rely on pimply 16 & 17 year old apprentices to do all the work for them & test thrash your car at the end of the day. (Nothing against apprentice motor mechanics - we need them, but I believe they don't get the best of training in a large factory dealership)

If anybody knows the Wangara (WA) area, you will always see alot of very young mechanics driving pretty vigorously, all sorts of customers cars in the back streets that abound all the large dealerships located in the area.........