should GM-H be worried?

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by merlin

Who cares about the space saver spare?????

I would rather save weight, and have extra boot space, than some big heavy full sized spare that I MIGHT use once every couple of years. :jab:

Yes all the county people (all 5 of them) will whinge about it but seriously if its such a concern they can pay the extra $100 for the full size spare - the majority of cars are bought by city people who dont need a full size spare (hell I dont even carry any spare, tyre repair kits are a wonderful thing : )

So over it.

/ENT RANT

Yeah, Im going to get out and do a tyre repair on the side of the road on the way to Melbourne (as I regularly do, to see relatives) when I have my two kids and baby in the car, especially at night...

Stuff that, I would just prefer to take the spare out and put it on thanks. A lot of people dont even like changing a friggin wheel, so they arent going to fix their tyre are they?

You dont have to live in the country areas to drive though them regularly. And trucks leave a lot of rubbish on the roads for cars to run over, Ive done it.

A spare is how heavy? 40kg or so? Big deal. And space? Well there is a sunken area of the boot in a BA where the spare sits. No dramas. Wouldnt even know its there.

Having said that, having it as an option for $100 or so would be a compromise.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by XRchic

Yeah, Im going to get out and do a tyre repair on the side of the road on the way to Melbourne (as I regularly do, to see relatives) when I have my two kids and baby in the car, especially at night...

Stuff that, I would just prefer to take the spare out and put it on thanks. A lot of people dont even like changing a friggin wheel, so they arent going to fix their tyre are they? .

So whats the issue with changing to a space saver? - drive it straight to a servo when you get a chance and get it fixed or changed. Not necessary to have a full size spare unless you are travelling interstate or something (which is increasingly rare given $59 flights). In 10 years I have never even got a flat, except on my motorbike, which a $2 tyre plug in my backpack got me on my way in 5 minutes...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by XRchic

And the spare tyre? Is there a reason for that? Is there a problem with having full sized spares these days, especially as wheels are getting bigger and bigger with each model? Is there enough room to put them in the boot???

Considering the VE spare wheel well can actually hold the optional 20" wheels it's nothing more then saving some weight for official kerb weight figures and some dollars on list price....all marketing based reasons.

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by merlin

So whats the issue with changing to a space saver? - drive it straight to a servo when you get a chance and get it fixed or changed. Not necessary to have a full size spare unless you are travelling interstate or something (which is increasingly rare given $59 flights). In 10 years I have never even got a flat, except on my motorbike, which a $2 tyre plug in my backpack got me on my way in 5 minutes...

No problem with the space saver. Ive used them before and they are ok to get to the nearest place. I just wouldnt use the puncture repair kit. Thats all.

As for interstate driving, it depends on your circumstances. We are not all single with no kids and we travel interstate a lot in the car. Our relatives are in Geelong and we are in Adelaide. A short drive really (6-7 hours).

Way cheaper than flying with 2 adults and 3 kids even with increased fuel prices! And to get to Geelong from Tullamarine, you need a hire car anyway, which adds to the cost - have to get around once you are there, right?

And getting a baby capsule in a hire car or transporting a baby seat on a plane would be interesting. And by the time youve done all that, you have spent a good few hours anyway, and you could be halfway there in the car.

Cheap airfares are rubbish anyway. You can only go certain times, and the Jetstar from Adelaide to Avalon is one flight a day! Better to use Frequent Flyer points, and we do, when we travel without the kids.

We also drive interstate regularly for the drags in Vic as there is no decent drag strip here. So do quite a few from SA. Not exactly going to fly.

And Ive had loads of punctures and things caught in the rubber causing slow leaks.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Considering the VE spare wheel well can actualy hold the optional 20" wheels it's nothing more then saving some weight for official kerb weight figures and some dollars on list price....all marketing based reasons.

Yep, thanks for that. I didnt know, which is why I asked the question. In that case, its just stupid that they dont include it, since the weight is minimal on a car that heavy!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Considering the VE spare wheel well can actually hold the optional 20" wheels it's nothing more then saving some weight for official kerb weight figures and some dollars on list price....all marketing based reasons.

The outer dia of the tyres Ford and Holden fit as std are basically the same anyway regardless of rin dia otherwise they'd have to re-calibrate the speedo.
There is no "wheel well" advantage.

[Falcon Coupe]

I believe manufacturers looking at the export market tend to leave aircon as an option, reason being if the car is exported to a cold climate it's a waste of money (aircon to Eskimo's) and anyway, if it was standard, we would be charged for it, car makers give nothing for free.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The outer dia of the tyres Ford and Holden fit as std are basically the same anyway regardless of rin dia otherwise they'd have to re-calibrate the speedo.
There is no "wheel well" advantage.

I meant the tread width.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by merlin

So whats the issue with changing to a space saver? - drive it straight to a servo when you get a chance and get it fixed or changed. Not necessary to have a full size spare unless you are travelling interstate or something (which is increasingly rare given $59 flights). In 10 years I have never even got a flat, except on my motorbike, which a $2 tyre plug in my backpack got me on my way in 5 minutes...

Are space savers also speed limited?

My mother's AWD TS Terry got a flat and she hasn't done 190km yet, you're lucky not to get one in ten years. Plus how many servos do tyre repairs today, they're more interested in selling you two chocolate bars with your shop a docket fuel purchase.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I believe manufacturers looking at the export market tend to leave aircon as an option, reason being if the car is exported to a cold climate it's a waste of money (aircon to Eskimo's) and anyway, if it was standard, we would be charged for it, car makers give nothing for free.

I have to say that having air-con helps demisting the interior glass, I wouldn't drive a car even in Alaska without it.

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I have to say that having air-con helps demisting the interior glass, I wouldn't drive a car even in Alaska without it.

For sure! I dont know how many times I use mine in winter with the heater on to keep the windscreen fog free! Its cold where I live and I probably use the aircon more in winter than summer - almost, my car is black and its an oven in temps above 25. LOL

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I have to say that having air-con helps demisting the interior glass, I wouldn't drive a car even in Alaska without it.

Absolutely, aircon is a kind of safety feature also.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by XRchic

No problem with the space saver. Ive used them before and they are ok to get to the nearest place. I just wouldnt use the puncture repair kit. Thats all.

As for interstate driving, it depends on your circumstances. We are not all single with no kids and we travel interstate a lot in the car. Our relatives are in Geelong and we are in Adelaide. A short drive really (6-7 hours).

Way cheaper than flying with 2 adults and 3 kids even with increased fuel prices! And to get to Geelong from Tullamarine, you need a hire car anyway, which adds to the cost - have to get around once you are there, right?

And getting a baby capsule in a hire car or transporting a baby seat on a plane would be interesting. And by the time youve done all that, you have spent a good few hours anyway, and you could be halfway there in the car.

Cheap airfares are rubbish anyway. You can only go certain times, and the Jetstar from Adelaide to Avalon is one flight a day! Better to use Frequent Flyer points, and we do, when we travel without the kids.

We also drive interstate regularly for the drags in Vic as there is no decent drag strip here. So do quite a few from SA. Not exactly going to fly.
!

lol fair enough, horses for courses...your scaring me with all this kid talk...apparantly it is all in the "two year" plan... :

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by merlin

lol fair enough, horses for courses...your scaring me with all this kid talk...apparantly it is all in the "two year" plan... :

Hahaha.

Im old, so I guess Im allowed to talk about kids. But then I was young when I had my first one (22).... Hmmmm.

I scare myself now I think about it... I was NEVER the kid type either, and Im still not particularly maternal.... :

[blutura]

I think its time for some facts before things spiral out of control any further.

The Facts

1. Although the space saver spare tyre is standard, a full size spare can be optioned for a mere $100 - can't get much fairer than that. If you need the full sized spare, buy it.

2. The Omega does not have air-con as standard. This is nothing new. The VZ, VY, VX, VT, VS, VR, VP, VN, VL, VK, VH, VC and VB base models didn't have air-con standard either. However, air-con has almost always been thrown in for free.

3. On the VE, Holden have already stated that for the rest of the year, the Omega will be sold (to private buyers only) as the Omega V, with air-con, 17" alloys and a rear wing thrown in for free.

4. I can almost guarantee that even after this year, Holden will continue to thow in the air-con for free. Its just listed this way to entice customers into showrooms with a lower list price.

5. Orion has not been built yet, so don't just assume that Ford is going to get everything perfect either. They've misread the market before. I just hope they don't do it again.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I have to say that having air-con helps demisting the interior glass, I wouldn't drive a car even in Alaska without it.

Good point, the reason i gave was what Toyota gave me when i was looking at the new Hilux.

[AWD Chaser]

To counter for the lack of aircon on the Omega model, the Omega model comes with electric windows standard.

I hope that with the space that save by only having to put in a space-saver-spare, I hope they have a larger long range tank....

I think there isn't a problem with a space-saver, because they do have the option of getting a full size rim. If you hate them so much, get a proper spare - that's what I did, and I have never used it yet....

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by blutura

I think its time for some facts before things spiral out of control any further.

The Facts

1. Although the space saver spare tyre is standard, a full size spare can be optioned for a mere $100 - can't get much fairer than that. If you need the full sized spare, buy it.

2. The Omega does not have air-con as standard. This is nothing new. The VZ, VY, VX, VT, VS, VR, VP, VN, VL, VK, VH, VC and VB base models didn't have air-con standard either. However, air-con has almost always been thrown in for free.

3. On the VE, Holden have already stated that for the rest of the year, the Omega will be sold (to private buyers only) as the Omega V, with air-con, 17" alloys and a rear wing thrown in for free.

4. I can almost guarantee that even after this year, Holden will continue to thow in the air-con for free. Its just listed this way to entice customers into showrooms with a lower list price.

5. Orion has not been built yet, so don't just assume that Ford is going to get everything perfect either. They've misread the market before. I just hope they don't do it again.

Yep i picked up 2 front rims and tyres down at a Holden dealers for $100 each about 5 months ago, 15" 205 RE88. Back 15" 225 RE30 $155 each. Both tyre and rim.
It's a fair price i would get it if i was paying over $30,000 anyway.
Even my VP came with A/C. (Died 2 years ago:()

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I have to say that having air-con helps demisting the interior glass, I wouldn't drive a car even in Alaska without it.

Thats true my sister had to use A/C one cold night as her windows fogged up worse inside with the heater on full. And i have iced the windows over with the heater on also.

[HSE2]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=18630&vf=12

You have to laugh at the last paragraph. :king:

[HSE2]

And a bit more info on why Holden didn't look too sharp over fuel consumption.

Drive article

Joshua Dowling, The Sydney Morning Herald, 21/07/06



"After numerous enquiries this week, Drive understands that Holden had supplied fuel consumption figures to the federal Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARs), as it is required to do under Australian regulations before a new vehicle goes on sale.

However, Holden discovered late in the Commodore's development that the fuel consumption of production cars was better than the earlier figures it supplied to DOTARs. Drive understands Holden is retesting all models to resubmit to DOTARs so it can publish more favourable figures on the fuel rating labels and in the Green Vehicle Guide - something which Holden is within its rights to do.

Meanwhile, Holden has been obliged to stockpile the cars and not transport them to dealerships until DOTARS approves the fuel rating label figures and the labels are applied."

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Fuel figures missing is a BIG issue, they should have held the release back till they finished testing, maybe they knew it was going to be a negative in this sensitive market and didnt want this dissapointment to over shadow the release "fanfare"?

You don't believe that line about not finishing testing fuel economy do you. They would not release a car without knowing the figures, and from a previous post they have already started fitting economy stickers to the windscreens of demo models for the dealers. They are just hiding it until after the launch so the press don't give them a mauling when the final figures are released. Holden marketing BS at its best.

[MO]

Merlin...your a twit...what servo is going to fix your tyre at midnight....none...there all register jockey's.

Jeez use your brain.

[AlbertM]

Originally Posted by merlin

Who cares about the space saver spare?????

I would rather save weight, and have extra boot space, than some big heavy full sized spare that I MIGHT use once every couple of years. :jab:

Yes all the county people (all 5 of them) will whinge about it but seriously if its such a concern they can pay the extra $100 for the full size spare - the majority of cars are bought by city people who dont need a full size spare (hell I dont even carry any spare, tyre repair kits are a wonderful thing : )

So over it.

/ENT RANT

If the option for the full size is avaialable that means there is a space for it. how is that saving room? The extrs $100 is for the Omega only, all others are $250. Holden only supply a sapce saver becasue new tyres for VE are nearly double that of VZ.

If you carry a tyre kit, what do you pump the tyre up with? You may aswell carry a spare with the time it will take.

Another downer for the space saver is that you can't go as fast or far as a full size. That means on long trips, such as interstate travel you have to spend an hour at a tyre place. With a full size you can complete your trip and fix the flat later. Not to mention that the handeling is not compromised.

[irsa76]

Since the Omega is aimed at fleets and family buyers the lack of A/C is stupid. Even if the VE is cheaper then the Falcon, alot of buyers will walk if they have to pay extra for A/C. And considering the 380 has climate control standard across the board for less money I think Holden has really made mistake. I also don't like the idea of a space saver spare, probably because in the last 2 years I've had 6 flat tyres around Canberra!

[Eaturbo]

funny thing about the optional A/C is that you can not buy one without it. I sold new commodores for 3 yrs only finished in January this year and air was standard but you had to add the price on. Customers use to winge and ***** because it was standard on falcon but you had to pay $2250 for it on a holden. How stupid are they, do they think that it was free!!!!. The list price for the Exec and XT were the same when both had Air but peolpe still thought it was free on the falcon. Holden has no idea when it comes to pricing cars. Another example was the HSV XUV Avalanche, it came standard with hard lid and a ute liner but they had to be priced as options as the list price didn't include them but the still would not just add them to the price and just call it the new list price

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by XRchic

Would the space saver spare and the lack of air con really account for a full L per 100km? I didnt think it would make that much difference. ???

My bad, I meant a little. darn it why cant the pc do what i mean not what i typo!

OH and Aircond is std across falcon range

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by merlin

Who cares about the space saver spare?????

Yes all the county people (all 5 of them) will whinge about it but seriously if its such a concern they can pay the extra $100 for the full size spare -
/ENT RANT

The issue is how the MEDIA are reacting to the car, and thus the publics reflection, and lately the media has been making a big issues over space savers being "not suitable for Australia", and then the "great Australian Holden car" is launched with one. I think its a MARKETING PR stuff up.
They could have quietly made the change in a while when the media have found a new issue.


As i said, normally at the launch of a new Holden (Or falcon) the media go crazy over all teh wonderful things about the new car, this time they seem to be focussing on what they DONT like. Thats why I asked has the LAUNCH been a disaster, not if its a good car or not, Im sure it is a very good car.(Just not as good as the Falcon :Reverend: )

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I believe manufacturers looking at the export market tend to leave aircon as an option, reason being if the car is exported to a cold climate it's a waste of money (aircon to Eskimo's) and anyway, if it was standard, we would be charged for it, car makers give nothing for free.

Commodores main export market (beside NZ) is Mid east arab world, where A/C is a MUST! But i guess fuel econ is NOT an issue there!

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by HSE2

And a bit more info on why Holden didn't look too sharp over fuel consumption.

Drive article

Joshua Dowling, The Sydney Morning Herald, 21/07/06



"After numerous enquiries this week, Drive understands that Holden had supplied fuel consumption figures to the federal Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARs), as it is required to do under Australian regulations before a new vehicle goes on sale.

However, Holden discovered late in the Commodore's development that the fuel consumption of production cars was better than the earlier figures it supplied to DOTARs. Drive understands Holden is retesting all models to resubmit to DOTARs so it can publish more favourable figures on the fuel rating labels and in the Green Vehicle Guide - something which Holden is within its rights to do.

Meanwhile, Holden has been obliged to stockpile the cars and not transport them to dealerships until DOTARS approves the fuel rating label figures and the labels are applied."

So fuel economy was better then they expected If they knew that they wouldn't have had to hide it:P
I can see why if they got better figures on it they would try there best to show them

[merlin]

Originally Posted by MO

Merlin...your a twit...what servo is going to fix your tyre at midnight....none...there all register jockey's.

Jeez use your brain.

As I stated I dont need anyone to fit my tyre for me when I carry a repair kit and a compressor...saving 40 odd kg of weight....thats using my brain I would think... :

If you dont want to do it then don't! jeesh!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

To counter for the lack of aircon on the Omega model, the Omega model comes with electric windows standard.

Didn't the BAII onwards come with full electric windoes as standard, and auto headlights?