Aaand Drive is at it again.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

can someone tell me where the "new" news is in that article? Is this all old news with nothing new to add...

Yeah that's what crossed my mind....must be a slow news day. Holden must not have announced their hydrogen powered SIDIDIDIDIDIDIDIDIDIDI Direct Injection.

[madmelon]

Everything I wanted to say I said in a comment on that article- 2nd from the top. What has to stop is this BS about "More efficient FWD"- FWD is NOT inherently more fuel efficient or lighter, as I said in the article comment I made.

[tranquilized]

Ok so its only in more recent times that Falcon generations have lasted 10 years, will be interesting to see how long the current one lasts. If it follows the trend it'll be more like 11 years - 2019

As for what constitutes a generation, if you look at each model within each generation as described by wikipedia, you'll see the doors, and the overall shape of the car is the same. There are exceptions - major updates like the rear window on an XW and rear door on an XC (from memory?) but the XK, XR, XA, XD, EA, AU, and FG are the start of each generation Falcon.

As for an AWD Taurus or similar being a replacement for our RWD Falcon, no thanks.

[phillyc]

Well this is my comment. Wonder if it will get posted. Most / although generally more restrained than this do not.

Must be a slow news day. The 4th GMHolden boss leaves in 3 years so publish this unfounded rubbish to distract the masses.

Mullaly and Kuzak have both said the Falcon is a terrific product, the factory is running at capacity and is profitable. They also talked about the RWD Mustang and a sedan just like that.

[Chilliman]

And the motoring journos turn a blind eye to the fact that Holden is working on the Super Epsilon platform (large FWD) with Buick. That in itself may not mean much except when taken in the context that Camaro is switching to the mid-size Alpha RWD platform by 2014, leaving Commodore an orphan on Zeta.....and Zeta's time is up come 2018!

Mark my words - if Falcon goes FWD/AWD Commodore won't be far behind.

[bathurst77]

Am i only person here who has no problem with fwd for base models and AWD for upmarket and sports models?
(which prob means all FORDS are fwd and all FPVs are AWD.
Whats wrong with that?

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Am i only person here who has no problem with fwd for base models and AWD for upmarket and sports models?
(which prob means all FORDS are fwd and all FPVs are AWD.
Whats wrong with that?

No V8 - that's the problem. The performance motor will be the 3.5Litre EcoBoost V6.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Am i only person here who has no problem with fwd for base models and AWD for upmarket and sports models?
(which prob means all FORDS are fwd and all FPVs are AWD.
Whats wrong with that?

There is lots of problems with it first is the ride and handling, second is there will be no ute, nor will there be a v8 version of such, or the fact that we have one of the best sixes in the world killed off, then there will be no cheap alternative towing vehicle for Australians to use. I could sit all day on the computer making excuses for why Ford should stay loyal to the Falcon. But it comes down to Australians to make there point to Ford not to ditch the Falcon. After all there are plenty of FWD's on the market to buy, but very few RWD's, Ford will toss what is left here in Australia away if they introduce a FWD replacement for the Falcon.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

It might have some thing to do with euro 5 and 6 emissions how ever I did think that was earlier than that. All I can think of is if the Falcon will have to fall in line globally by being the shared platform with Mustang or we get the Taurus which I don't think will happen as that would mean the end of Broadmeadows as we know it. But as stated in article, Ford Australia has a big part to play globally.

Alternatly, FoA could become the regional maker of RHD Mondeo and Taurus on one new platform.

What I'm hoping for is a Mid sized and large RWD joint project that doubles FoA sales....
XR could become the sporty mid sizer and G series could remain Falcon size...

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What I'm hoping for is a Mid sized and large RWD joint project that doubles FoA sales....
XR could become the sporty mid sizer and G series could remain Falcon size...

Now that would be an awesome lineup. Someone get this man a job at Ford!

[csv8]

Ford continues to hint next Falcon could be front-wheel drive.

Ford’s global product development chief Derrick Kuzak says the company’s Melbourne-based Australian operations are a crucial part of the new One Ford world, which aims to develop a single vehicle to suit the world.

But amid speculation the future of the Falcon is under a cloud following recent comments by senior executives in the US suggesting it could make way for the US-made Taurus he is still refusing to shed light on the fate of the locally made large car.

However, Kuzak again hinted that the rear-wheel-drive formula that’s been a foundation of the Falcon over five decades could make way for the more efficient front-drive configuration used by most family sedans. He also reiterated comments by Ford’s global boss, Alan Mulally, that a Subaru-like all-wheel-drive set-up could make sense for large cars like the Falcon.

“Clearly we’ve gotten really, really good at front-wheel-drive (and) all-wheel-drive cars, their design proportions, how they drive,” said Kuzak. “Where we are doing front-wheel-drive on [large cars] they also always have all-wheel-drive.”

He said the Mustang – an American muscle car classic that relies on rear-drive performance – and Ford Australia’s top-selling Falcon were vehicles that could still make sense as a rear-wheel-drive model.

“There still is room for rear-wheel-drive cars; Australia is the perfect example but we haven’t finalised our decision.”

Ford’s much publicised One Ford policy means the Falcon cannot exist as a specific model just for Australia.

Rumours continue about options, which range from taking the Taurus and rebadging as a Falcon to a General Motors-style option of using Australia as the development centre for rear-drive two- and four-door vehicles, such as the Mustang.

With the current Falcon expected to continue until at least 2014, Kuzak said time was on Ford’s side.

“We just did the Falcon, it’s a very successful product. We just did the Taurus, it’s a very successful product. We don’t have to make that decision yet, so we’re going to do the analysis and will see what the markets do.”

But Kuzak refused to speculate on options, instead reaffirming Ford’s position as a significant engineering base for the Asia Pacific region.

“Ford Australia is fundamentally a major piece of One Ford,” he said.

“Our global compact pickup is being led by the Australian team. The Australian team provides core engineering foundation for all of our Asia Pacific team and all of our Asia Pacific products so they are today a fundamental piece of the One Ford product development team and it will stay that way.”

See all the latest from Geneva in our 2010 Geneva motor show special feature.

[g220ba]

There's already a thread on this subject. There's also absolutely no different info in that article to anything that's been previously said.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11290229

[csv8]

Sorry ,didn't know ,that was on DRIVE today.

[Brazen]

This was Kuzak from just a week ago, so obviously its news,

why doesnt he just say "next generation Falcon will remain rear wheel drive"

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this FWD story is only a media beat-up, its obvious Ford is hinting at it as much as anyone else. And with the current Ford AU bosses refusing to increase production volume on the Falcon, its going to be a tough business case to make a unique RWD Falcon.

[g220ba]

It may have been from just a week ago but again it has absolutely no new information when compared to the last major ford bashing.

Why would they increase the line rate if there's an update coming, The costs versus the benefits obviously don't ad up at this point in time, Demand on any product is always better than oversupply. Stock sitting in holding yards isn't what i'd call great for profitability which as of last year i believe ford aus has returned to.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

This was Kuzak from just a week ago, so obviously its news,

why doesnt he just say "next generation Falcon will remain rear wheel drive"

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this FWD story is only a media beat-up, its obvious Ford is hinting at it as much as anyone else. And with the current Ford AU bosses refusing to increase production volume on the Falcon, its going to be a tough business case to make a unique RWD Falcon.

If additional units are required, Ford has agreed to Saturday work which has the same
effect as increasing production by 20% without the commitment of increased line speed.

At the moment that 270/day over a 23 day week is around 6,200/month or close to 68,000/year
with about three weeks off for Christmas. I think FoA would be chuffed to get the combined
production up to 68,000, at the moment it's around 55,000 annually.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Alternatly, FoA could become the regional maker of RHD Mondeo and Taurus on one new platform.

I think if manufacturing continues here that is the most likely option...

Perhaps even a SUV Top-hat on that Platform also.

[Brazen]

Yeah but no-one is saying why Kuzak hasnt just come out and said that Falcon will remain Rear Wheel Drive - Simple!

[g220ba]

Brazen i would like to refer you back to the article and in particular the quotes below:

"He said the Mustang – an American muscle car classic that relies on rear-drive performance – and Ford Australia’s top-selling Falcon were vehicles that could still make sense as a rear-wheel-drive model."

“There still is room for rear-wheel-drive cars; Australia is the perfect example but we haven’t finalised our decision.”

“We just did the Falcon, it’s a very successful product. We just did the Taurus, it’s a very successful product. We don’t have to make that decision yet, so we’re going to do the analysis and will see what the markets do.”

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah but no-one is saying why Kuzak hasnt just come out and said that Falcon will remain Rear Wheel Drive - Simple!

He cannot do that, FoA have said they are taking 12 months to decide either way,
Kuzak would risk looking like Bob Lutz announcing ahead of full deliberation and business plan.


FoA needs to convince FNA that mid sized and large vehicles can be built of a modified Falcon platform.
If they can do that then FoA could could sporn a family of RWD cars to make Bob Lutz green with envy.
I'm thinking coupe, sedan and SUV in both mid size and large vehicles -a total of six possible vehicles.
Maybe even a Ute for Australia as a thank you......

guys,
Think about it and let your imagination run wild for a while before posting your thoughts,
take us down a lane with your thoughts regarding the possible vehicles and tell me that
one Uber-platform couldn't make it all possible.....

[Luke Plaizier]

Bob Lutz is retiring (again) in May.

And it's spawn.

Other than that, you make a lot of good points.


Lukeyson

[Bundy]

Originally Posted by csv8

Sorry ,didn't know ,that was on DRIVE today.

Yeah they're always a bit slower ......

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Bob Lutz is retiring (again) in May.

And it's spawn.

Other than that, you make a lot of good points.


Lukeyson

Thankyou,

Sporn is deliberate typo pun on porn.....

[stevefreestyle]

Originally Posted by csv8

Sorry ,didn't know ,that was on DRIVE today.

Drive-l have been trying to undermine Ford Aus for some time with that crass manipulation of the facts - never mind the facts...to create an unsubstantiated, spurious "story" from nothing and negative speculation, whilst the "nothing" is more a reflection of their ethical and professional standards. And they call themselves professionals !!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Slightly off topic, but why is the current generation Falcon slated to end in 2014, 5 years after it was introduced? Is it emmission/safety standards? Every other generation has lasted around 10 years. If past trends are followed we'd have the current rear drive platform till 2019...

10 years is now considered too long. Most manufacturers are now working on 6-7 year cycles. So come 2015 when the new Falcon is due it will be 7 years as the FG was released in 08. And i'd say it is to match up with Mustang which gets an all new platform in late 2014. Good chance that contains the answer right there. All new RWD platform in 2014 for Mustang makes it highly likely the Falcon will soon share it in 2015.

I wish they would hurry up and get Global RWD up and running.

[OZQUAD44]

I am well and truly over the vigor in which Australian media bash the Falcon to bits. By act or omission, it happens so often its a wonder the Falcon didn't die off twenty years ago. Lets not forget that in its life time the Falcon, has seen off the Holden Premier. It has seen off the Charger, it has seen off the Monaro, it has seen off the Torana, it has seen off the Kingswood, It has seen off the narrow body commodore, It has seen off the Cortina, It has seen off the Magna, it has seen off the 380, it has seen off the P76. It must be a solid product for it to have lasted as long as it has. And its pretty clear lots of companies pay lots of media dollars to keep the Falcon down.

My Falcons have always served me well, and they have all been rear wheel drive. If Ford have got their heads so far up their own backside that they think a front wheel drive Falcon is a good thing, then they are a lost cause. For their sake I suspect the company is a bit smarter than that. I know that I will never, never, never, never, ever buy a front wheel drive Falcon. I might as well buy a Kia!

[aye you]

i'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that Ford MoCo will shoot themselves in the foot and absolutly destroy their market hold of the large sedan in this country. A FWD falcon will be as bad as them trying to replace the Falcon with the Tarus way back before the AU came out

[geckoGT]

I agree, I thought Ford would have learnt that a FWD large car will not work in australia when they tried to sell the Taurus here in the late nineties, it flopped.

I am not completely against FWD, it has its place but the family large car is not it. This a has been demonstrated by Mitsubishi here, their large car (magna and 380) has never sold well. Additionally companies such as BMW and Mercedes refuse to build large FWD cars due to their decision that FWD dynamics do not suit the large car buyer.

I do not see a problem with the Mondeo and smaller being FWD but Falcon needs to stay RWD, or they will hand the large car market to the commodore on a platter.

Personally I think things will remain the way they are, falcon will be RWD and designed here for a long time to come (we are good at it). Ford will make use of this by tying in the development of the mustang with falcon. The bad news is the I6 will eventually disappear and be replaced by the V6, especially after the results seen in the V6 in the mustang.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Spot on gecko

that is the way that we should all be thinking..

I am getting over the negativity that is getting around lacesthese days

Jason

[legt]

IMHO, the Australian market is a drop in the ocean as far as Ford is concerned.
Personally, I think it is simply bad economics & simply unsustainable to have unique niche models in Australia, Europe, England, etc.,. Don't misinterpret me here, I own a number of GT Falcons & have always driven Falcons, I'm about as Falcon as a 1-eyed Collingwood supporter loitering around Victoria Park, as much as I hate to use that analogy. But when GMH is doing everything right to expand its market by exporting the Monaro (Pontiac GTO in the U.S.) & the Commodore (Pontiac G8 in the U.S.) & now the Statesman will see its way into Highway Patrol & Police fleets in the U.S., how can a unique model like the Falcon help Ford survive in a business that spans the globe?

Does BMW or Mercedes or Toyota or Audi or VW or Hyundai or any successful & notable vehicle manufacture have niche models for tiny markets? And have any of these vehicle manufacturers received any bad press because the government had to bail them out? Okay, Ford USA only just escaped a government executive interest like GM faces; but they have realised that there are business financial exposures. So why continue to invest in localised niche models that just translates into a high cost of sale. As an Australian I'm tired of paying exorbitant prices for motor cars.

Its ridiculous to think that an imported vehicle could actually sell for far less than a domestic make but doesn't, because of the protection taxes associated around the domestic industry. I completely agree that our jobs need to be protected, but what if all the design & build around unique, niche models was removed & we had a standard range of models like the Germans have for example & that translated into a lower cost to the consumer whilst maintaining jobs? That to me sounds like a win/win. And if you want something unique then you simply pay for it. But $35K for a base Falcon is insanity. Have a look what you get for $35K in the northern hemisphere. We are spending money on developing straight 6's when the rest of Ford hasn't seen a straight 6 in years. More V6's Mustangs get sold in the U.S. than there are Australians in Australia. Just doesn't make economic sense.

As much as I would hate to see the Falcon disappear, I can't help but think that the economics around keeping it, in light of the Global economic exposure is a reality beyond 2015. Australians are just taken to town when it comes to buying a commodity like a car. Something needs to be done before the cost of a Falcon moves into the luxury car bracket & jobs are lost.

The financially sustainable reality is that GMH has already shown that it can develop a product for BIG markets, Ford Australia is just a victim of bad timing & Global economic Warming..!!!