Vinyl Records. are making a comeback...

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Sox

Vinyl is funny stuff second hand.
Some collectable stuff can go for silly money, hundreds for one album.
Other stuff won't move for $1 and can't be given away at garage sales.

It really depends on what it is and the condition.

PM sent BTW.

I have a few rare and valuable vinyl's in my collection including an original, very low numbered first pressing of The Beatles AKA "The White Album", UK Mono 1968...

It still has the poster and the four slightly smaller than A4 sized individual photo portraits of the band, also still has the original black inner sleeves....all in excellent condition.....

[XP6]

I like the old Iron Maiden limited edition pressings, BIL has all of them including the standard pressing of each and the LE poster to match each one, he amassed them as they were released I think he is sitting on a future gold mine
Funny thing he collects lego to... good combo IM and lego!

[GT0132]

Was in JB Hi Fi last Sunday and came across their vinyl section...There were selected copies of rock albums from the 70's...Kiss's album Destroyer was priced at a staggering $45 thanks very much.

Made me glad I decided to keep my album collection which numbers over 1000and taking up space under the staircase. Was gonna take them all to the tip a few years ago seeing as though I have each one on CD now or in my ipod.

While most of mine have been played I have an original copy of the Eagles Hotel California bought in 1977 unplayed in the original gatefold sleeve. Maybe worth more than my GT.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I have a few rare and valuable vinyl's in my collection including an original, very low numbered first pressing of The Beatles AKA "The White Album", UK Mono 1968...

It still has the poster and the four slightly smaller than A4 sized individual photo portraits of the band, also still has the original black inner sleeves....all in excellent condition.....

You mean like this ............

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Sox

Which doesn't really mean much.

It's like asking your 106yo grandmother to do a comparison between a GT Falcon and a HSV Commodore.

Neither are qualified.

The DJs I have asked were actually from the digital age. They all preferred to play vinyl because they did not have to crank up the gain in order to get great sound from their systems. I'd say that's more qualified than you or me as I have no idea what gain is and neither do you I suspect...

[Sox]

Originally Posted by superyob

The DJs I have asked were actually from the digital age.

It doesn't matter where they're from, they typically have little knowledge of absolute quality of sound.

They all preferred to play vinyl because they did not have to crank up the gain in order to get great sound from their systems.

If that's the reason they're giving, then it's absurd as the notion that they are qualified to judge which is the superior format.

I'd say that's more qualified than you

I doubt that very much, I've been in the audio industry for as long as I can remember.
I have a reasonable handle on things these days.

or me as I have no idea what gain is and neither do you I suspect...

Gain is simply the measure of how much an output is increased over the input.
Typically measured in dB.

There are other contexts in which the term gain may be used.
For instance the volume control on an amplifier can often be labelled 'gain'.


Moving on, DJ's have their place and skills in the world, as we all do, however they are most certainly not qualified (generally speaking) to judge the differences between top flight vinyl and CD.
Not many people are, the high end audio scene is very small indeed.

I'm guessing the vast majority of the population have never auditioned a $2000 turntable, let alone a $20,000 turntable and a system to realise it's potential.
This is what's required to get close to the performance of a ~$3000 CD player.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Sox

It doesn't matter where they're from, they typically have little knowledge of absolute quality of sound.

If that's the reason they're giving, then it's absurd as the notion that they are qualified to judge which is the superior format.

I doubt that very much, I've been in the audio industry for as long as I can remember.
I have a reasonable handle on things these days.

Gain is simply the measure of how much an output is increased over the input.
Typically measured in dB.

There are other contexts in which the term gain may be used.
For instance the volume control on an amplifier can often be labelled 'gain'.


Moving on, DJ's have their place and skills in the world, as we all do, however they are most certainly not qualified (generally speaking) to judge the differences between top flight vinyl and CD.
Not many people are, the high end audio scene is very small indeed.

I'm guessing the vast majority of the population have never auditioned a $2000 turntable, let alone a $20,000 turntable and a system to realise it's potential.
This is what's required to get close to the performance of a ~$3000 CD player.

I humbly bow before your superior audio knowledge...

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

You mean like this ............


image

Could be .....mine is a Mono UK first pressing, released by Apple on the 22nd November 1968, Cat No PWC 7067/8 - Matrix No's (Mono) XEX 709-1, XEX 710-1, XEX 711-1, XEX 712-1.....as well as the poster/photos it has the top opening gatefold sleeve with "The Beetles" embossed (not printed) on the front of the sleeve, also at the bottom front right of the sleeve is the serial number....No 0002196....

The number is fairly low when you consider that by the end of 1968, just over a month after it's release, the album had sold over 4,000,000 copies worldwide, and by the end of 1970 had achieved global sales of around 6.5 million....my mother bought mine for dad in December 68' for Christmas....and of course it's the mono version which increases it's scarcity...

It's been re-released a few times since 68' but they just have "The Beetles" printed on the front and the majority had no serial number, also the gatefold had the standard openings at opposite ends of the sleeves instead of the top but also came with copies of the poster and four prints....

GasOLane, what year is yours and do you have the poster ? is it mono or stereo and is it numbered ?

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by Sox

I'm guessing the vast majority of the population have never auditioned a $2000 turntable, let alone a $20,000 turntable and a system to realise it's potential.
This is what's required to get close to the performance of a ~$3000 CD player.

Just a question, Sox.
I can understand the cost of a good turntable to get the best from vinyl, But why does a Cd player, that you say can be up to $3000, have to be so expensive to be a good one .
After all, they only have to read 0 an I.

If top quality Amps are used for both, the majority of people wouldn't tell the difference.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Was in JB Hi Fi last Sunday and came across their vinyl section...There were selected copies of rock albums from the 70's...Kiss's album Destroyer was priced at a staggering $45 thanks very much.

I bought "Sabbath bloody Sabbath" on one of these reproduction vinyls, perfectly suited to the sludgy Sabbath sound...Still love my Dad's Vol 4 vinyl...


And while it never went away, Vinyl is indeed making a comeback, sales being the highest they have been since the late 80's/early 90's when CD's first started to claw their way into the market.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Just a question, Sox.
I can understand the cost of a good turntable to get the best from vinyl, But why does a Cd player, that you say can be up to $3000, have to be so expensive to be a good one .
After all, they only have to read 0 an I.

Good question.

You're correct in that the transport section of a CD player only has to read 0 & 1. Transports are also very mature and can do this with stunning precision and can arguably be called blameless (although some still feel 'jitter' is an issue - I don't).

However, this digital signal needs to be converted to an analogue signal, which is where digital to analogue converter (DAC) comes in.
It's here where the $$ are spent to make a CD player sound it's best

A $500 CD player actually does sound very good indeed, and the differences between them as the price is doubled are only small. Most people wouldn't would be able to tell the difference on the average audio system.

I feel the laws of diminishing returns sets in heavily beyond approx $3000.
In other words, a $3000 player is better enough than a $1500 player to justify the price tag (IMO).
Beyond that I'm not so sure, and I'm not even sure the differences that do exist, can be categorised as 'better'.

If top quality Amps are used for both, the majority of people wouldn't tell the difference.

I'd agree with that.
But some people will, and if we're comparing top flight TT's, we may as well compare apples with apples.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Nikked

And while it never went away, Vinyl is indeed making a comeback, sales being the highest they have been since the late 80's/early 90's when CD's first started to claw their way into the market.

For sure it is.....

Australian Vinyl sales have doubled over the last two years, the US has just shown it's seventh straight year of growth in vinyl and the UK it's fifth, also the increasing availability of low to high end turntables is also a good indicator of the resurgence of vinyl....

A friend of mine used to drive around to markets selling records out of the back of a van until demand became to much so opened a store in Brisbane's West End, most of her custom is from teenagers and people in there 20's and a lot of her new record sales come with a digital download, so they get what they want digitally and they get vinyl which will last them a long time....

Interestingly Zenith Records (Australia's last vinyl pressing plant) has recently doubled it's workforce and bought two new pressing machines...

Unfortunately for the CD sales are on a steady decline worldwide (remarkably similar to the cassette tape), obviously this has nothing to do with the increased sale of vinyl but is due to the increased popularity of downloadable music....

So why the worldwide resurgence of vinyl ? well it's certainly not a "living in the past" thing with todays generation taking to it, so let's leave that old chestnut dead and buried as it should be......

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Unfortunately for the CD sales are on a steady decline worldwide (remarkably similar to the cassette tape), obviously this has nothing to do with the increased sale of vinyl but is due to the increased popularity of downloadable music....

Some interesting points you make in your post DJR. The paragraph above particularly so.

When I bought my first CD player in early 1986 vinyl was still taking up about 80% of stock space in your typical music store, Cassettes were still on the shelves but rapidly declining. CD's were still fairly rare with not a lot of artists with CD availability at that point. Vinyl was around $10 per album, cassettes slightly higher and CD's around $30-$35.

After reading rave reviews in audio mags I bit the bullet and bought an AKAI CD player for $400 along with 3 CD's one of which was Dire Straits Brothers in Arms. Apart from what I thought was a noticable improvement in sound quality other notable features with CD's versus Vinyl were;

1. You could play a whole album, without having to turn it over after side 1

2. A CD was less prone to be damaged .

3. You could dance around and party all night without the arm of the turntable jumping off the record.

4. The CD player enabled you to play tracks at random or program the order to suit your taste

5. In later years you can play them in your car or in a portable device

Naturally those benefits couldn't be ignored so I set out to replace my 1,000 strong vinyl collection with CD's . However the price of CD's meant this exercise took years to accomplish but accelarated when downloadable music became available in the late 90's.

What you lost , however, was the nice sleeve and inserts which were far superior than what you got with a Compact Disc. CD covers also became prone to breakage (strong in the beginning but became noticably weak). Don't get me started on the part of the inner casing that holds the CD place . I has it a guess that virtually all of my CD's wont sit in the casing as the teeth that hold them in place are all damaged. On balance though give me a CD anyday.

Cassette tape was just a joke. I bought a dozen or so albums on cassette tape in the 70's and 80's and, apart from portability in that you could play them in your car or on a portable cassette player, they were atrocious. The tape would get mangled and after a few years they would deteriorate regardless of whether or not they were used. Fast foward and rewind were hit and miss and often they would ruin a perfectly good tape deck if they became jammmed in the unit - much like a VHS video tape. Sound qquality versus a vinyl record was noticanly poor . Typically what I would do is each time I bought a vinyl record I would copy it onto a blank chromium dioxide cassette tape so I could play it in the car. The arrival of CD's and then, later on, CD players in cars meant cassette tapes became redundant.

With the advent of ipods and downlodable digital music I find it hard to understand why vinyl is becoming popular again. I have a 64GB iPod touch that holds my entire CD collection with about 10GB to spare . That device can be

- hooked up to my AV system in my living room

- played on one of the several docking stations I have around the house

- taken on the train to work

- taken to the gym

- played in the car

Having set it up to do one of those things above I can then

- set up my own playlists

- change the running order of tracks on albums

- delete tracks I don't like

- make my own greatest hits albums with the songs I do like (not what some recording industry exec thinks I might like)

All this at the loss of some slight reduction in the quality of the sound , which I can't notice anyway. I know what I'd rathe have

[superyob]

For those of us who still live in the 70s, vinyl means not just enjoying our favourite tunes, but also interacting with the process of selection, engagement and examination. For example, when I select Jeff Wayne's 'War of the Worlds' to play, I have to engage with the process off taking the record out of the cover (a tangible item I can see, feel and hear), make sure it's clean and sit it on my turntable, ensuring the settings are correct, and press start. Then I might scrutinise the cover art and included illustrative booklet for the bazillionth time. And this makes me happy. And sometime when I accidentally put Black Sabbath on at 45 rpm instead of 33, it makes me laugh... I cannot see or touch a digital file let alone be excited about purchasing a bunch of 0s and 1s or possessing something that can be downloaded by anyone with a computer ... There is nothing special about that...

[SSD-85]

I have always been fond of vinyl. I greatly prefer original pressings. I'm not going to enter into the debate of sound quality beyond giving my own opinion on preference;

- Audio tapes are horrible, and dolby just made it worse to the point of it sounding like its at an 11khz sampling rate.

- CDs are always good, but like most things, are highly dependent on the playback medium. I greatly prefer older 16-bit DAC equipment.

- Digital compressed audio is once again dependant on playback equipment, certain PC hardware is excellent at this.

- Vinyl, IMO has a quality to it that resembles HiFi VHS or Laserdisc. You know its not quite as clinically clean as digital mediums, but with certain technical aspects I won't go into, sounds more "human".

I am a Gen-Y but greatly appreciate the sound of vinyl. Whether it be a new master of new music, or an original master of older music.

[tranquilized]

I only buy music on vinyl now. Stopped buying CD's years ago and will probably never buy one again.

I'll download anything I'm remotely interested in, then if I love it I'll buy the record.

There is no point arguing which sounds better (CD vs Vinyl) Technically CD's sound better, but to my ears and so many others records sound so so much better. Much warmer, less harsh. The ritual of putting them on the turntable and lowering the tone arm then sitting back and enjoying - no other medium comes close!

Also when it comes to the recording process, many studios and bands are going back to the 2 1/2 inch tape reel for recording. Its far more expensive to record this way than straight to pro tools (ie digital) but again, the sound is just so much... nicer. Its all down to the tape bleed. The sounds actually bleed onto the tape, making the recording less precise, less crisp, less "technically better" but its what everyone wants! It just sounds nicer, for want of a better word. Tape machines, their maintenance, and the reels of tape are hideously expensive as well, especially when compared to buying a computer with pro tools on it...

[Nikked]

I think the vinyl resurgence is riding on the rise of digital downloads, before this, CD's were the option because you could carry a wallet full of CD's with your Discman.

Now when records come with a free album download, you can appreciate the vinyl warmth and ritual of using them plus the larger artwork and posters/photos you get with a vinyl LP, and still have a copy for your iPod...

I just hope the trend continues, as for a while there its was all heading for a bland plastic download only world, ruining the whole ideal of actually releasing a album.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Also when it comes to the recording process, many studios and bands are going back to the 2 1/2 inch tape reel for recording. Its far more expensive to record this way than straight to pro tools (ie digital) but again, the sound is just so much... nicer. Its all down to the tape bleed. The sounds actually bleed onto the tape, making the recording less precise, less crisp, less "technically better" but its what everyone wants! It just sounds nicer, for want of a better word. Tape machines, their maintenance, and the reels of tape are hideously expensive as well, especially when compared to buying a computer with pro tools on it...

Funny isn't it? There is always a counter-culture...


I guess from a recording and producing aspect, with the availability for pro-tools to everbody you have people in there bedrooms recording stuff, and if you have the luxury of good studio, boards, tapes etc...why not use them?

A lot or recordings are bland these days, caught in the "loudness" war and perfection where a bad take is just erased with a mouse click, there is little room for sounds to breathe, less "happy mistakes" caught on tape so to speak...

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by Nikked

I think the vinyl resurgence is riding on the rise of digital downloads, before this, CD's were the option because you could carry a wallet full of CD's with your Discman.

Now when records come with a free album download, you can appreciate the vinyl warmth and ritual of using them plus the larger artwork and posters/photos you get with a vinyl LP, and still have a copy for your iPod...

I just hope the trend continues, as for a while there its was all heading for a bland plastic download only world, ruining the whole ideal of actually releasing a album.

I wholeheartedly agree. I enjoy owning a "hard copy" of my music. Gives me personally a sense of pride in ownership.

And the old Gatefold albums (and LDs) are simply gorgeous. A real reflection of how you have something special.

Digital downloads are strictly a last resort for me, if I simply cannot find a hard copy.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

There is no point arguing which sounds better (CD vs Vinyl) Technically CD's sound better, but to my ears and so many others records sound so so much better. Much warmer, less harsh. The ritual of putting them on the turntable and lowering the tone arm then sitting back and enjoying - no other medium comes close!

I was listening to "Mars needs guitars" Hoodoo Gurus (showing my age) today on CD and must say it was almost painful as the guitars where so crisp, I had to put the treble right down but then it ruined the sound.

I agree that the record just melows the sound to perfection, I find older AC/DC CDs to be a bit too crisp as well.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Nikked

A lot or recordings are bland these days, caught in the "loudness" war

This is a major problem with the greater majority of CD productions, and unfortunately all too often the CD format gets the blame.

It frustrates the hell out of me as CD is capable of superb performance when done right, however 5 out of 6 CD's purchased today sound like utter garbage.

[Nikked]

Because footy commentary is crap...

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Because footy commentary is crap...


image

Damn you, one of the few priest albums I don't have on LP.

[superfly]

I haven't listened to records for years! I have about 70 records, 30 odd singles and some 12" remixes (I think those ones are just from INXS) stored in boxes. I'm sure some is cringe-worthy but others maybe very cool. I also have Jimi Hendrix in my collection but mainly it's all 80's like INXS, Howard Jones, Cold Chisel etc.

I haven't owned a record player for a long time which is why I haven't listened to them anymore. I used to prefer records to tapes but I did record all my records onto tape. But since CD's I never looked at records again.

I think I'll go through them and try and list some on ebay that maybe are worth something.

[superfly]

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

I wholeheartedly agree. I enjoy owning a "hard copy" of my music. Gives me personally a sense of pride in ownership.

And the old Gatefold albums (and LDs) are simply gorgeous. A real reflection of how you have something special.

Digital downloads are strictly a last resort for me, if I simply cannot find a hard copy.

I buy all my music on CD (up to about 800 now). I also like the "ownership". But then I do transfer it onto my iPod so I can listen to it in the car.

Originally Posted by Stefan

I was listening to "Mars needs guitars" Hoodoo Gurus (showing my age) today on CD

A few months ago I saw the Gurus tour doing the Mars Needs Guitar album. Top album!

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Nikked

And while it never went away, Vinyl is indeed making a comeback, sales being the highest they have been since the late 80's/early 90's when CD's first started to claw their way into the market.

Everything old is new again,funny everything seems to find a new market base 15,20,25 years after its demise ...
The record maybe is the in thing to have,everyone has thousands of songs on ipods,ect ,that's too easy,its a wow factor to actually show something off ...
Theres some rare original pressings out there,but the vast majority still end up at the tips ...
More must haves and collectability than a resurgence ....

[Stefan]

Nice Nikked, I do love Judas Priest I thing I have 5 or 6 JP records on vinyl.

I actually have no idea were my records are, I might need to have a dig around this weekend.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Nice Nikked, I do love Judas Priest I thing I have 5 or 6 JP records on vinyl.

I actually have no idea were my records are, I might need to have a dig around this weekend.

Yeah that Sin after Sin album of Priests one of their best Nikked. I've got everything by Priest on vinyl from Sad Wings to Defenders of the Faith, but if I wanna listen to any of those much prefer to get out the ipod.

I can't get into the psychology of vinyl....the feeling and all that stuff....If the drums , bass and guitar rock that's all that matters. Agree what Stefan says about early AC/DC...However a lot of that could be to do with the equipment used. I find the older amps rather than the new AV Receivers have a much fuller sound. I have a Yamaha 7.1 receiver and find, while its great for movies, I find it lacks in the music department compared to my old Luxman 2 channel amp..

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Everything old is new again,funny everything seems to find a new market base 15,20,25 years after its demise ...
The record maybe is the in thing to have,everyone has thousands of songs on ipods,ect ,that's too easy,its a wow factor to actually show something off ...
Theres some rare original pressings out there,but the vast majority still end up at the tips ...
More must haves and collectability than a resurgence ....

Sorry but that's just not the case, the fact is an increasing amount of todays artist are offering there work on vinyl as well as CD and Downloads, the last 20 or so vinyl albums I have bought are recent releases from todays artists.....Mumford & Sons Babel, Soundgarden's King Animal, Jack Johnson's From Here To Now To You and Lana Del Ray's Born To Die to name a few.....these days, every major label and many smaller ones are releasing vinyl, and most major new releases have a vinyl version....

As for the "wow factor/showing off" bit, well that could be seen as a little "off" to the majority of people I know that buy vinyl, truth is it's nothing more than a personal preference, I also think it's about getting something tangible and physical for your money that will last and not just some downloadable data...(hence the popularity of album + download sales).....on a personal note though, I buy and collect for me and not for some supposed bragging rights.....although I do like to share when I do come across something unusual or rare....

I also have an iPod and CD's, although I haven't bought a CD in ages and probably never will......my CD player in the car has had a CD jammed in it for ages now but I don't worry about it as I don't use it, I just plug in the iPod...

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by GT0132

I can't get into the psychology of vinyl....the feeling and all that stuff......

There's nothing wrong with that in my mind, it's all about individual preference....

What a miserably boring life it would be if everyone had the same likes/interests....