Would you want incentives to buy Australian?

[GK]

+1 for cheaper rego. $100 a year.

Also, a 5% cash back from the government on purchase of a new Aussie built car.

It's not raising tarrifs, but certainly gives a real incentive to buy the locally made product.

Perhaps doing this, might negate the need to prop up companies every 5 years or so.

GK

[uranium_death]

Incentive?
Australian large cars are the best value of all vehicles on the road today.

For the power, size and equipment that comes with it, there is simply not a better quality vehicle out there.
They are great for families, for towing, for hauling things, and also provide a range for performance.

To go to an equivalent international marque would cost a lot more, and the vehicles are not as flexible in terms of use.

While Australian build quality is not up to the standard of international car companies, in most cases you have to pay a premium for a vehicle fitted with the same equipment and of an equivalent size.

Incentive? Best value cars on the market here.

[BAxtER]

Considering what a Ford territory costs compared to a BMW x5...let alone a BMW x1!!! i dont think i need anymore incentive.
Especially when there are runout models, the deals on territory and xr6 sedans are literally too good to be true.

[ltd]

Let's not forget though that there is a perception out there that Australian made is of inferior quality, when infact it is often the opposite. These people automatically dismiss the local stuff because of something they heard, but don't have the temerity to check it out for themselves.
There is a word to describe those people who write something off on the basis of supposition..... What's the word for it again...... Oh yeah; bastards.

I remember when I bought my beloved G6 turbo, driving it home from the dealership and then to Newcastle the next day, I was so proud of being an aussie and equally just as proud that guys and girls in Victoria came up with this brilliant, brilliant car. Sort of gave me hope for the country that we were moving forward. Sounds parochial I know, but Ford is truly a winner in the bang for the buck stakes.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Wretched

So has anyone out there found a way to prevent this besides punishing consumers to buy local products that do not suit their requirements?

That is an interesting way to put it, "punishing consumers". I would say consumers are being punished receiving inferior products from some overseas manufacturers that don't have the tight regulations on what materials are used, safety of workers and general product quality. Companies in the capitalist free market world care for only one thing and that is the bottom line, to legally make as much money as possible for share holders. I cannot think of a way where companies manufacturing products in Australia can compete other than to lower wages, environmental standards and play the game the same as the Chinese and similar countries do.

In losing our manufacturing base we are cutting out what was a large proportion of our labor work force and they are forced to seek employment in other areas such as the service industry which I believe does not offer the same long term employment or security for employees.

The other side of the equation is we are selling our raw materials for less to the Chinese then to our own companies. This does not make sense either. The Chinese have long term contracts where they are getting gas and coal at cost price. They use this to power their cheap industry on their cheap wages with no concern for the environment. How is anyone supposed to compete with this?

I am all for patriotism. I am all for Aussies and Aussie jobs. I do not give a flying stuff about other countries. If we are producing a equal or superior product here companies should be supported in the uneven global market so they can survive and thrive.

[GK]

Originally Posted by ltd

There is a word to describe those people who write something off on the basis of supposition..... What's the word for it again...... Oh yeah; bastards.

LOL!

Originally Posted by ltd

I remember when I bought my beloved G6 turbo, driving it home from the dealership and then to Newcastle the next day, I was so proud of being an aussie and equally just as proud that guys and girls in Victoria came up with this brilliant, brilliant car. Sort of gave me hope for the country that we were moving forward. Sounds parochial I know, but Ford is truly a winner in the bang for the buck stakes.

I love this sort of patriotism. Not enough going round I reckon.

I feel the same sense of pride, knowing that both of my family cars were made within 15 minutes of my home.

Awesome!

GK

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Redrum

That is an interesting way to put it, "punishing consumers". I would say consumers are being punished receiving inferior products from some overseas manufacturers that don't have the tight regulations on what materials are used, safety of workers and general product quality. Companies in the capitalist free market world care for only one thing and that is the bottom line, to legally make as much money as possible for share holders. I cannot think of a way where companies manufacturing products in Australia can compete other than to lower wages, environmental standards and play the game the same as the Chinese and similar countries do.

In losing our manufacturing base we are cutting out what was a large proportion of our labor work force and they are forced to seek employment in other areas such as the service industry which I believe does not offer the same long term employment or security for employees.

The other side of the equation is we are selling our raw materials for less to the Chinese then to our own companies. This does not make sense either. The Chinese have long term contracts where they are getting gas and coal at cost price. They use this to power their cheap industry on their cheap wages with no concern for the environment. How is anyone supposed to compete with this?

I am all for patriotism. I am all for Aussies and Aussie jobs. I do not give a flying stuff about other countries. If we are producing a equal or superior product here companies should be supported in the uneven global market so they can survive and thrive.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I see where you and many others are coming from, my argument is it should be up to the organisation to deal with the lack of sales of a product. If it isn't selling, they need to look at why it isn't and try and resolve that instead of relying on government incentives and taxes on competitors products.

Why should someone who isn't remotely interested in buying a barge like a Falcon or Commodore be hit with extra taxes and other such "penalties" because it isn't locally made? What other choice do they have if the local arm of an international organisation isn't interested/cannot see the fiscal benefit in manufacturing other products here?

Wages and exports are a political issue in which I would rather not get into.
Wages go up, cost of products/services go up to match, it is a vicious cycle that needs to be broken at some point. We're pricing ourselves out of manufacturing.

[FTE72]

Untill the regulators/government insist that importers are importing products that are manufactured in operations that meet similar work practise standards that local manufacturers must maintain, there will continue to be a decline in the amount of manufacturing in this country. Quality is not always an issue with cheap imported goods, but conditions under which they are manufactured should be a major consideration when you purchase. I believe that everyone in the world deserves to be safe and injury free at work.

Unless you manufacture a new/innovative product with no competition, you are unable to compete on the world market as an Australian manufacturer due to compliance costs.
And in most cases, you would have to go offshore to get any sort of funding/backing for product development to begin with.
The Free Trade Agreement seems to have implications that are a large price to pay to supprt our agricultural sector. (Please note, I am not having a go at our food providing brothers and sisters, they suffer similar problems for different reasons)

[Brazen]

With large petrol, LPG, E85 sedans and a wagon built here, performance cars, a hybrid, a mid-size 4 cylinder, a SUV, utes, and from next year a small petrol and diesel sedan and hatch. I think it would be a good time to promote a 'buy local' program. It dosnt have to necessarily punish people for buying imports but instead encourage people to buy Australian-made.

Maybe even use it as a program to make the national fleet newer by offering a rebate on trade-ins over 8 years old on a new Aussie car.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I see where you and many others are coming from, my argument is it should be up to the organisation to deal with the lack of sales of a product. If it isn't selling, they need to look at why it isn't and try and resolve that instead of relying on government incentives and taxes on competitors products.

Why should someone who isn't remotely interested in buying a barge like a Falcon or Commodore be hit with extra taxes and other such "penalties" because it isn't locally made? What other choice do they have if the local arm of an international organisation isn't interested/cannot see the fiscal benefit in manufacturing other products here?

Wages and exports are a political issue in which I would rather not get into.
Wages go up, cost of products/services go up to match, it is a vicious cycle that needs to be broken at some point. We're pricing ourselves out of manufacturing.

And I think you mis understand what I am saying.

Quite simply if it comes down to the manufacturers of course they are going to move off shore. The only reason some car manufacturers remain is that they are actually getting incentives through the back door.

Your last paragraph is exactly my point from the beginning. For us to remain competative and manufacture here without government intervention and tariffs we must sink to their level, which we cannot afford. Our minimal wage in this country to be able to survive according to the Government is 56 times that of the lowest Chinese wage. Do you want to try and live on $1.70 AU a day.

So if you are willing to be paid the same as our Chinese workers we can compete.

I personally am against the so called world free trade agreement. In the long term the only people who benefit are share holders of the companies. The rest are selling out our livelihoods to get cheaper cd's, cars etc.

As for your attack on the Falcon and the Commodore I do disagree strongly. They on the world scale are both quality products packed with features, safety, quality and affordability.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by FTE72

The Free Trade Agreement seems to have implications that are a large price to pay to supprt our agricultural sector. (Please note, I am not having a go at our food providing brothers and sisters, they suffer similar problems for different reasons)

The agriculture sector has been hit hard too. We are now flying in vegetables and fruit from around the world and our local suppliers still cannot compete, this includes the freight cost. I am sure though when oil starts to run out the costs will go up.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Redrum

As for your attack on the Falcon and the Commodore I do disagree strongly. They on the world scale are both quality products packed with features, safety, quality and affordability.

I didn't attack the commodore or falcon. I asked what other choice from local product do consumers have if they do not want a large car? Not everyone wants a large sedan or a ute. Many are happy with a hatch back or medium sized car of which aren't built here.
The choice should be up to the consumer.

[max]

The argument seems vaguely Keynesian. The trouble is I think, generational/cultural in basis. I do believe some incentives would influence buyer sentiments in some instances. I heard the SA GMH chief interviewed the other day. He reminded me how small our motor manufacturing operation is in Oz compared to USA et al. I think locally the 'football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars' syndrome is still at play. I'm not sure Gen Y and beyond will be so parochial. We 'feel' like we own a part of Australia driving a Falcon or Commodore. The yanks probably felt that way up to the 90's in their Buicks, Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs. I think we're just lagging. I've been to the USA four times. First time in '88. Lots of yanktanks still to be seen. Last trip '09, every second car you see on the road is an import, generally Toyota, Honda or Mazda. I wonder what is it about the Australian GMH product that some USA police depts. buy, that cannot be sourced locally? Do we still have some kind of innovation, techno, style, quality edge that cannot be replicated in the USA?

[FTE72]

Originally Posted by Redrum

The agriculture sector has been hit hard too. We are now flying in vegetables and fruit from around the world and our local suppliers still cannot compete, this includes the freight cost. I am sure though when oil starts to run out the costs will go up.

Agree 100%
Add to this the implications of carbon footprint from buying out of season fruit and veg, there is plenty of reasons to support your local farmer.

[EgoFG]

Personally I think a scaled rating system should be overseen by the government.
At a companies expense it can get selected products rated according to strict standards.
These standards should take into account % Australian Ownership (this is easy) AND % Australian made (based on Financial value add - strict rules)
This rating can then be included on their product/advertisement

Additionally I believe that government departments should be penalised for purchase of lower rated products - So if they Buy Au then they have more budget.

The figure of % Australian content would be the more meaningful then the "Australian Owned" and/or "Australian Made" that we see around at the moment

[flappist]

Patriotism is a good thing but can anyone answer these:

If I wish to buy and Australian made:

Sports car
4WD Cab Chassis
4WD Styleside Ute
Panelvan
etc etc... ok I will make it easy.

If I do not want a 4 door large sedan, station wagon, soft ute or soft roader what Australian MADE car do I buy?

N.B. Getting a Mazda 4WD and sticking Ford badges on it or a Daewoo and sticking Holden badges on it or fully importing something from asia/europe and sticking an ADR label on it does NOT make it Australian made.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by flappist

Patriotism is a good thing but can anyone answer these:

If I wish to buy and Australian made:

Sports car
4WD Cab Chassis
4WD Styleside Ute
Panelvan
etc etc... ok I will make it easy.

If I do not want a 4 door large sedan, station wagon, soft ute or soft roader what Australian MADE car do I buy?

N.B. Getting a Mazda 4WD and sticking Ford badges on it or a Daewoo and sticking Holden badges on it or fully importing something from asia/europe and sticking an ADR label on it does NOT make it Australian made.

If we raised tariffs it would make it competative for manufacturers to make those cars here or at least asemble them, like they have done in the past.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by flappist

Patriotism is a good thing but can anyone answer these:

If I wish to buy and Australian made:

Sports car
4WD Cab Chassis
4WD Styleside Ute
Panelvan
etc etc... ok I will make it easy.

If I do not want a 4 door large sedan, station wagon, soft ute or soft roader what Australian MADE car do I buy?

N.B. Getting a Mazda 4WD and sticking Ford badges on it or a Daewoo and sticking Holden badges on it or fully importing something from asia/europe and sticking an ADR label on it does NOT make it Australian made.

we should of been making 4wd wagons and dual cabs for years, incredible a country like Australia does not make these things.

heck even RHD local assembly of the F-series with limited exports to europe and asia you think would be viable

[JimNiki]

it is crazy now that you mention it...

one quick reason I can think of, The US in 100% inhabitable, Aus is only about 10% and it's nearly all along the coast and in cities. So even though we are the great sunburned country, we're more the lazy beach loving "sandman" type of culture.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Redrum

If we raised tariffs it would make it competative for manufacturers to make those cars here or at least asemble them, like they have done in the past.

But would they?

As you said, it was done in the past, but would it be done again? The increase in complexity in all aspects of car manufacturing must make the required investment for such a small market much less likely today than it was 30 years ago. So my bet is an increase in tarrifs would not result in any new models being made here, instead everything without a Commodore or Falcon (or Territory/Camry/Cruze and whatever else is built here now) badge would be a lot more expensive.

The Button plan's aim was to consolidate Australian manufacturing more or less to the point its at today. Whether or not thats a good thing is a matter of opinion, but one thing I believe its achieved is an increase in the quality of the cars that are still made here. Its been pointed out that the latest Falcon and Commodores are world class cars in many aspects, but this never used to be the case.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

But would they?

As you said, it was done in the past, but would it be done again? The increase in complexity in all aspects of car manufacturing must make the required investment for such a small market much less likely today than it was 30 years ago. So my bet is an increase in tarrifs would not result in any new models being made here, instead everything without a Commodore or Falcon (or Territory/Camry/Cruze and whatever else is built here now) badge would be a lot more expensive.

The Button plan's aim was to consolidate Australian manufacturing more or less to the point its at today. Whether or not thats a good thing is a matter of opinion, but one thing I believe its achieved is an increase in the quality of the cars that are still made here. Its been pointed out that the latest Falcon and Commodores are world class cars in many aspects, but this never used to be the case.

I would agree that the disappearing tariffs have forced the local car industry to produce better products, but at what ultimate cost. In approximately 12 months Ford Australia will make a decision on the future of the Falcon.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Brazen

we should of been making 4wd wagons and dual cabs for years, incredible a country like Australia does not make these things.

heck even RHD local assembly of the F-series with limited exports to europe and asia you think would be viable

We did make 4WD wagons and utes in Australia for years, my father ran the factory. They tried and tried to get into the mines but unfortunately the poms won every time with Land Rover so they just packed up and shut it all down.

The factory was in Brisbane, the vehicles were called Jeeps........

[Elks]

I want a Korean car, because

A large hi performace family sedan. It would need somthing like a 5.0 v8 with a supercharger, room for 5, handles well, all the options.

Koreans dont make that, Really?

Oh well, i'll have a ford instead.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Elks

I want a Korean car, because

A large hi performace family sedan. It would need somthing like a 5.0 v8 with a supercharger, room for 5, handles well, all the options.

Koreans dont make that, Really?

Oh well, i'll have a ford instead.

Yes they do, it is called Genesis.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Genesis

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Redrum

I would agree that the disappearing tariffs have forced the local car industry to produce better products, but at what ultimate cost. In approximately 12 months Ford Australia will make a decision on the future of the Falcon.

I don't think the future of the Falcon has anything to do with the tariffs. How many times over the last 20 years or more have we heard about the future of the Falcon?
Could it be the product itself that might need adjusting (Ford have finally begun doing something, with the introduction of the I4T, a little late but a positive move none the less)?
What would be the Falcon's direct imported competitor be (size/configuration)? Is it in the same price range? Is it having an effect on the Falcon sales?

Protectionism policies such as higher tariffs hinder the local industry, they provide a false sense of security and give the green light to local makers to produce mediocre products. If the Falcon and Commodore are such world class vehicles as everyone has put it, then they should be able to sell on their own credentials.

I have an imported Ford (after two local Fords) and love it to bits. None of the local Fords fit my criteria for a car.

[SB076]

I dont think we could introduce or increase tariffs, however I think the rego idea has merit and maybe the government could look at reducing some of the costs imposed on business. Other countries protect their industries through various means why should Australia be any different?

Given the local manufacturers size (and also financial constraints) obviously they will not be able to cater for every individual needs and therefore we will still need imported cars.

Will be interesting what happens in the next 6 - 12 months (there is already media speculation that there will be a double dip recession) Given that US and the UK havent made a lot of progress in lowering their unemployment rate - things could get nasty. I beleive one of Australias strength is that our unemployment rate is relatively good at present and I think we need to keep it that way.

[Brazen]

I think the C-segment (Focus, Cruze etc), need to be built here. What I would do would be to plug into a global platform so development and updates are cheap build it here with a SUV offshoot. Sell private buyer focused 2500-3000 sedans/hatches a month with another high-profit 1000-1200 compact SUVs on top of that.

The C-segment will become such a massive massive part of the market that local players should be setting it up now. These cars are becoming more premium and more expensive every year. Unlike the 80s and 90s buyers are actually starting to prefer the size of these vehicles compared to large cars. Back a couple of decades people bought them because they couldnt afford any bigger, how times change.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by SB076

I dont think we could introduce or increase tariffs, however I think the rego idea has merit and maybe the government could look at reducing some of the costs imposed on business. Other countries protect their industries through various means why should Australia be any different?
.

i suppose that's what things like Green Car Fund and other bailouts are secretly doing.

[Quicksand]

Nope, i dont need incentives. In any case, the cars would probably raise in price the same amount as the incentive (ala LPG Gov't Incentives) so i would end up paying roughly the same price, but now with an increased risk of being bumped into the LCT.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i suppose that's what things like Green Car Fund and other bailouts are secretly doing.

Most companies cannot get access to the green car fund or any of the bailouts (which typically all go to either Ford, Holden or Toyota) I was thinking more along the lines of general policy that benefits all local industry.