Ford to slash 350 jobs

[Pinch]

Does anyone from Ford HQ read this forum? There is more than a nickel worth of free advice here. Forget market testing excercises - just start scrolling!

There is an absolutely clear and convincing pattern of hopelessely inadequate and arrogant sales and service from the dealer network - the face of the brand. While this is a common comment on a number of forums, to be so consistant on the one forum who I thought would be the biggest apologists for the brand is indeed profound.

I am one of those who recently put my new car money elsewhere for this very reason. I have told Ford. I have said the same here. It is falling on deaf ears, and it is a crying shame. Despite that, I am not one to hand over my hard earned only for me and my wife to be treated like crap.

Shifting customer focuses? To some extend yes, but not as much as Ford is making out. A downsizing focus by the community at large (pardon the pun) flies in the face of the proliferation of Holden/HSV V8 sales, and the never say die sales figures for large SUV's. What fuel economy?

The last column in this month's Motor (have a mental blank on the author name - sorry) I found pretty insightful. Despite the vast increases in technology, cars remain fundamentally the same as 80 years ago, still powered by internal combustion engines driven by petrol. Has technology moved at a slower pace in any other facet of human endeavour? Probably a bit less pie in the sky, is the fact that apart from some efforts at reducing fuel consumption, manufacturers have concentrated on making their cars bigger, faster etc etc. The Motor column lists a number of things people surveyed want in modern cars, very little said faster 0-400m times, yet this increasing virtue is always one that is extolled. Come to think of it, in a family or cruiser car, I can't fault the performance of my old EF, or even my NC in real world driving. Sure there are enthusiasts who always want more, and that's fine - its just they don't make up the bulk of the market.

Ford could be great - if only they wanted to be.

Happy weekend all.

[Bobman]

Heard on rant radio (3aw) that they're going from 370 cars a day to 270 and as of September they will only have 4 day weeks with a full week off during Melbourne Cup.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Does Ford realise how shocking a lot of their dealers are?? In my experience you either get a rude and pushy salesman or one who knows absolutely nothing about his product.

When I go next door to Mazda I get treated extremely well. They even let me test drive a MX5 despite the fact I am a P-plater and wear thongs. They are building a brand.

The sad thing is if I wasn't a Ford enthusiast I probably wouldn't buy a Ford

I agree and I had the same experience. The two Ford dealers I went to were just hopeless. One mob wouldn't even let me in to talk to them, even though it was more than 45 minutes before their advertised closing time - they just ignored me and my partner, probably off to burn $50 or whatever they do out the back of Ford dealerships. The second was just not professional and did not give me enough faith to want to buy a Ford (also the South African Focus has a ****poor reputation for build quality).

I went to the Mazda dealer and they were bloody brilliant. I was really impressed with their attention detail, their professionalism, their service was basically what FORDS SHOULD BE.

But it wasn't just the Ford dealer who sucked, the VW dealer was also pretty hopeless.

Originally Posted by Pinch

Does anyone from Ford HQ read this forum? There is more than a nickel worth of free advice here. Forget market testing excercises - just start scrolling!

If they are reading these threads, and I doubt it, then they're not taking any of it in. How god bloody damn hard is it to fix dealerships? Why are they so bad? Why do people who work at Ford dealerships act like such pricks???? Is it that Ford Australia sends them stale bread and dirty water for lunch????!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by ESP

It's simply a sign of the times.......people's buying patterns have changed

FORD need to be proactive now and get on with the job of better marketing and focus on their potential volume sellers.

The 6 Cylinder car market has been in decline for a long time now and the fact that the VE was released years before the FG didn't help. In fact , the last sales figures showed the VE STILL AHEAD in sales. Those companies / business individuals that were going to novate lease 6 cylinder cars etc have already done so with the VE. The FG was doomed from the beginning........a great car released at a difficult time...........and considering the bulk of FORD AUS investment went into this car...........well..........it was inevitable that they'd have to cut their losses.

Sad news for those hard working families.............

regarding your comments about the 6 cyl market in decline.... i would have to disagree. this is what the media try to have you believe.

every month RATT puts up the sales figures for the major brands and the small car segment has barely changed in over a year. large car sales are slightly down but the markets that are up are 4wd's, suv's, ute's etc. large engined vehicles are still selling well, just not in family sedan form, although these are still holding reasonably well.

diesels are not really an option in the current climate either as the advantage in economy is offset by the extra cost at the pump and generally higher service costs.

[4Vman]

Poor dealer service is not the exclusive domain of Ford by any means, nor is it any worse (or better) than anywhere else. Ive shopped at 5 different brands before (and multiple dealers of each brand) and IMO the experience was overall the same regardless of brand, the difference is an individual thing, dealer by dealer, brand by brand, salesman by salesman, not a "brand cultural" thing....
Ford (and other car manufacturers) have very limited control over the "final 4 feet".. or sales behaviour because their dealers are privately owned franchises.
Natural selection weeds out the poor salesmen and poor dealer culture, that said i can endure a moron if i get the best deal, afterall im not there to make friends or find new mates... If someone has their heart set on a product they'll shop the dealer around, not the band.

[whales]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Poor dealer service is not the exclusive domain of Ford by any means, nor is it any worse (or better) than anywhere else. Ive shopped at 5 different brands before (and multiple dealers of each brand) and IMO the experience was overall the same regardless of brand, the difference is an individual thing, dealer by dealer, brand by brand, salesman by salesman, not a "brand cultural" thing....
Ford (and other car manufacturers) have very limited control over the "final 4 feet".. or sales behaviour because their dealers are privately owned franchises.
Natural selection weeds out the poor salesmen and poor dealer culture, that said i can endure a moron if i get the best deal, afterall im not there to make friends or find new mates... If someone has their heart set on a product they'll shop the dealer around, not the band.

Agree 100%

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If someone has their heart set on a product they'll shop the dealer around, not the band.

True, to a certain extent. When I was buying my BA XR6 I just wanted one and didn't care about the dealer crap that a number of outlets carried on with. The problem is that your relationship with the dealer/franchise only starts there. Servicing my BA was a MAJOR hassle. Every time. The level of hassle only varied slightly between dealers. And warranty issues, tell someone who cares. Its hard to have faith in a new car if you know you have a fight on your hand if anything goes wrong with it. A car is most peoples second, or most valuable purchase. People realise this, and in this modern time-pressured environment, the last thing people want to be spending time and emotional energy on is sorting out issues with the relatively trivial matter of their transport.

I have bought five new cars new, from five different brands. From Hyundai through to BMW supported Mini. Now the BMW supported Mini simply leaves the others for dead. Its a completely different experience, and generally you have to pay for it. But my Mini wasn't that much more than my XR was. I suppose everyone has their stories to tell, and mine is that I was involved over the years with a number of different dealers with each brand. Ford was the only one that was consistantly bad, every time, with only one or two positive experiences out of about 20. Come to think of it I can't really think of any really bad experiences with Hyundai, Holden, Subaru or Mini(BMW).

Enthusiasts who dead set want a particular car will buy it come hell or high water. This will always be the case and dealers can punch them in the face and they will still buy the car they want. Nothing wrong with that (well dealers punching customers could be problematic). Problem is these hard core fans do not make up the vast majority of the car buying public. With the comparable reliability and performance of most modern cars in the general public's view, issues (perceived or otherwise) can be deal breakers. Ford no longer has the luxury to disregard those buyers over trivially fixed issues.

If other major franchisees were ruining their brand name, the head honcho's would be on it quick smart. Ford's (and dealers') problem seem to be that they continue to think that just because they have very good cars (and the FG is on all accounts a really great car) they can treat their customers like crap and the cars will still sell themselves. Maybe this was the case not so long ago. Not now.

The FG is more critically acclaimed than the VE, yet why is it that Ford keeps getting smashed? There must be some reasons.

I am not here bagging Ford just because I feel like a rant. I love Ford's and I want to see them prosper. My earliest memories are cruising around in my Dad's XD in my child seat, and desperately wanting an XE ESP years later (still do...). Ford makes great cars and doesn't deserve to go the way of Mitsubishi, and neither do their employees. If little things can help Ford, why aren't they being done?

[Fordman1]

Most new car buyers won't even consider a Ford.

The brand image here in Australia really is poor ATM. FoA need a plan to turn this around ASAP.

The cars are great......

[Crazed]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Keeping the tariffs certainly has worked hasn't it?
It is time these inefficient organisations become more accountable for their actions.

I dont agree with that, Australia already has some of the lowest protection of any car making country in the world, which is insane considering our small population and market.

Lets look at the Falcon...Where else in the world can you get a rear-wheel-drive car as safe as a Volvo XC90, with the size of a BMW 7 series, better handling than a Audi A6, towing capacity of a Trition 4x4, as much power and torque as a Merc S350, uses in real world as much fuel as a Camry 4 cylinder and costs only as much as a Thailand built Accord.

Inefficient organisation? Give me a break.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Most new car buyers won't even consider a Ford.

The brand image here in Australia really is poor ATM. FoA need a plan to turn this around ASAP.

The cars are great......

Nearly, but not quite, Brand LOYALTY is swung against Ford, not Brand IMAGE.
Ive said it before and i'll say it again, Holden has more brand loyal buyers than Ford, you cant change that over night. Atleast we've narrowed the gap with FG attracting "swinging" buyers....

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Nearly, but not quite, Brand LOYALTY is swung against Ford, not Brand IMAGE.
Ive said it before and i'll say it again, Holden has more brand loyal buyers than Ford, you cant change that over night. Atleast we've narrowed the gap with FG attracting "swinging" buyers....

I hear what you're saying but Holden only have a little more of the market than Ford (BTW: they're in trouble too).

Toyota sell almost as many cars these days as Ford and Holden combined- why is that ? Image ?

Mazda has reinvented itself from the dark days of the late eighties and the nineties. Zoom, zoom, zoom. They have a brand image that Ford should be trying to emulate. Unless they do Focus won't help much in 3 years time.

They really have strong private sales and aren't that far behind Ford ATM.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

I hear what you're saying but Holden only have a little more of the market than Ford (BTW: they're in trouble too).

Toyota sell almost as many cars these days as Ford and Holden combined- why is that ? Image ?

Mazda has reinvented itself from the dark days of the late eighties and the nineties. Zoom, zoom, zoom. They have a brand image that Ford should be trying to emulate. Unless they do Focus won't help much in 3 years time.

They really have strong private sales and aren't that far behind Ford ATM.

The main problem as i see it (apart from brand loyalty) is that the choices are growing at a far greater rate than the size of the market "pie".
20 years ago there was bugger all choice, now there are literally dozens of brands and choices in each market segment, then to compound that there are "cross over" models like SUV's that perform a multitude of tasks never available as little as 10 years ago. The market has changed.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Keeping the tariffs certainly has worked hasn't it?

Nice bit of sarcasm.......

Not really.

They're at 10 % and they used to be 65 % !!

Now if they were kept at the levels they were at, there probably wouldn't be the job losses would there ? :hihi:

Having said that we wouldn't have the choices we have today in new cars at the prices they're selling at.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The main problem as i see it (apart from brand loyalty) is that the choices are growing at a far greater rate than the size of the market "pie".
20 years ago there was bugger all choice, now there are literally dozens of brands and choices in each market segment, then to compound that there are "cross over" models like SUV's that perform a multitude of tasks never available as little as 10 years ago. The market has changed.

Good point.

There is so much choice - there must be 100's of different 'models' available (when you look at each brand and the "trim levels " of each vehicle they sell).

So much choice and the Australian dollar has been strong too.

Still I maintain that most won't consider a Ford as a new car purchase (apart from loyal Ford buyers).

eg:

Yaris vs Fiesta

Corolla & Mazda 3 (& now lancer) vs Focus

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by prydey

regarding your comments about the 6 cyl market in decline.... i would have to disagree. this is what the media try to have you believe.

every month RATT puts up the sales figures for the major brands and the small car segment has barely changed in over a year. large car sales are slightly down but the markets that are up are 4wd's, suv's, ute's etc. large engined vehicles are still selling well, just not in family sedan form, although these are still holding reasonably well.

diesels are not really an option in the current climate either as the advantage in economy is offset by the extra cost at the pump and generally higher service costs.

I think you'll find that as a % ratio of new car sales...the big cars are down. There are still heaps of people buying cars............just not that many falcons.........that's the reality unfortunately.

The fact that the Falcon has yet to outsell the commodore spells trouble with a capital T. Sales figures for the falc will get worse not better from here on end. If they can't capitalise on a new platform with better dynamics and features and a 5 star ANCAP safety rating to boot..........then its time they shifted their focus elsewhere in order to survive and stay viable.

Isn't it funny how everyone was whingeing about FORD building a considerably better Falc..........now that they have..........the sales figures just aren't there to back up FORD's investment.

If the next generation Falcon isn't slightly smaller , lighter and at least 20% more fuel efficient..........then I'm tipping it may be the last.

You have to remember that by that time, it ( and many others ) will be competing with a locally manufactured TOYOTA Hybrid !!!!!!!!!!!

[Elks]

The whole concept of having a bad year and laying off 350 people fascinates me.

A company like Ford has a lot of long term employees many of whom will receive large redundancy payouts well in excess of 12 months pay. 350 x 12=$$$$ Why not take them off the production line and redeploy them for a while. You have to pay them for the next 12 months anyhow.

Get 20, stick them in the Bourke street mall with some cars that they built and get them to tell the quality story "i built this, it is gret, look here...." Get those with a good phone manner to follow up call on every car sold in the last 12/24 months, then act on it. Get the less skilled to mow dealers lawns provided the dealer agrees to tip the savings into customer benefits. Get the others to paint the fences check stuff in or out, do any any odd job to get the ship back on course. Just keep it going. All hands on deck. ra ra ra

I know the the unions would have a fit and the Harvard bean counters would have two fits at this but lets face it. When the Focus production comes on line 2010 they will be hiring again and spending zillions retraining people for the positions they just gave someone enough cash to to buy a yacht to leave.

Then there is the marketing.

Lets just say that in this weeks papers it was written up as 'the slow selling Ford Falcon introduces SUNA". (What the F is a SUNA) Someone needs to beat, bribe, cajole, write the headlines and the text for them so the headline is "FG Falcon stretches its innovation lead with traffic jam avoidance system"

In 3 days home with the flu I have not seen 1 add for this fantastic and unique to Ford, feature. There is no point in waiting 3 or 6 month to see what the uptake is like by then it will be standard fare in Hyundai i30.

The keepers of the Ford brand need to understand that they are charged with something special, Ford has traditionally stood for quality and innovation.

Ford brought to market, the peoples car the T, the V8, The Thunderbird, the Mustang, the F series, in Australia the Ute, and Falcon/Fairlane. These are automotive icons and highly emotive.

The Ford should marketing pitch should be "be cool". The tough guy in a movie almost always drives a Ford. To the point where it is almost a cliche to have your hero drive a mustang. Ask any GM lover would the have a Ford, no way, but a Mustang, a HotRod or an F100 absolutely.

Somewhere along the way it got screwed up and and now it's only cool to drive a Ford built before 1975. Perhaps they could bring back the XY?

I think I've had to much cough medicine and should have a lie down now

:

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by myts

The whole concept of having a bad year and laying off 350 people fascinates me.

....................................

I think I've had to much cough medicine and should have a lie down now

:

Great post !! :

[whynot]

I, for one, am wondering if I will ever buy another Ford.

After previously swearing I would never buy another Ford, three years ago, I leased a Territory. It was a terrific vehicle. But, it did have more than its fair share of visits to the dealer. In the end, it went because our fleet was turning green. If Ford had a diesel Territory, I could have signed up again.

A lot of my work colleagues went from Territory to Kluger at their last changeover. It is not hard to understand why. The Kluger was $3.5k per year cheaper than the Territory for similarly equipped vehicles. Over three years that is over $10K difference (pre-tax). Sure, the Territory is a far better driver’s car; however, that is lost on most people.

So, I lease a G6E. Initial excitement has turned to resentment. It has been back five (soon to be six times); and they are not little issues either. The customer service representatives are often surly. Last time, to add insult, the car comes back with greasy marks from some technician all over the front cashmere leather seats. I have to take it back next week to get it fixed and get a complementary new problem. I don’t even bother complaining because no one cares at Ford.

I can really understand why Ford is not doing well. Yes, their vehicles are superior vehicles in many respects. But most people want something that is cheaper and screwed together somewhat better.

Ford is trying to take a leaf out of the Mazda book; hold the line on discounting to support the resale values. Unfortunately, for Ford, Mazda backs up their sales strategy with exciting vehicles, exceptional quality, and outstanding dealer network.

If I was Ford, I would give that strategy up and, like GMH and Toyota, get back into the discount fleet market. At this stage, I am the only driver in the fleet, either dumb enough or smart enough (take your pick) to buy an FG. My colleagues are choosing GMH, Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda’s in droves.

[GTP290]

If you live in SA, go for a drive to outer harbour, and when you get to the docks have a look at all the Commodores parked ready for export, its trully astonishing how many of these cars are parked there, hundreds of them. Ford also need a good looking base model car, I dont care what people say, looks sell cars and bread and butter cars are where sales are at there highest. Ford DO need a Falcon export program, they cant relly on the domestic market. Why do we have the best Aussie made car only selling in Aus and the second rate Commodore going overseas? WE MUST EXPORT FALCON! They also need to bring the LPG model car up to speed so it has the latest LPG setup with traction control and 6 speed auto, this is where future Falcon sales will come from with petrol prices at $1.50 a litre or more.
Territory needs a turbo diesel and LPG option and a face lift urgently. With Bill Osbourne leaving its already looking like a carbon copy of Mitsubishis demise!

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Natural selection weeds out the poor salesmen and poor dealer culture, that said i can endure a moron if i get the best deal, afterall im not there to make friends or find new mates... If someone has their heart set on a product they'll shop the dealer around, not the band.

Maybe...

I got tired of being treated like a douche, so I shopped elsewhere. Now I get nearly weekly emails from the salesperson I bought my car from, wondering how it's going. I wanted an XR5 - I ended up buying a superior car for roughly the same changeover price. I shouldn't have even been given that option if Ford dealers were on the ball.

[mik]

Originally Posted by whynot

I, for one, am wondering if I will ever buy another Ford.

After previously swearing I would never buy another Ford, three years ago, I leased a Territory. It was a terrific vehicle. But, it did have more than its fair share of visits to the dealer. In the end, it went because our fleet was turning green. If Ford had a diesel Territory, I could have signed up again.

A lot of my work colleagues went from Territory to Kluger at their last changeover. It is not hard to understand why. The Kluger was $3.5k per year cheaper than the Territory for similarly equipped vehicles. Over three years that is over $10K difference (pre-tax). Sure, the Territory is a far better driver’s car; however, that is lost on most people.

So, I lease a G6E. Initial excitement has turned to resentment. It has been back five (soon to be six times); and they are not little issues either. The customer service representatives are often surly. Last time, to add insult, the car comes back with greasy marks from some technician all over the front cashmere leather seats. I have to take it back next week to get it fixed and get a complementary new problem. I don’t even bother complaining because no one cares at Ford.

I can really understand why Ford is not doing well. Yes, their vehicles are superior vehicles in many respects. But most people want something that is cheaper and screwed together somewhat better.

Ford is trying to take a leaf out of the Mazda book; hold the line on discounting to support the resale values. Unfortunately, for Ford, Mazda backs up their sales strategy with exciting vehicles, exceptional quality, and outstanding dealer network.

If I was Ford, I would give that strategy up and, like GMH and Toyota, get back into the discount fleet market. At this stage, I am the only driver in the fleet, either dumb enough or smart enough (take your pick) to buy an FG. My colleagues are choosing GMH, Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda’s in droves.

i would have to dissagree mate, the exitement factor mazda vs`s ford ..........what does mazda have to compete with an xr8 or xr6 turbo or f6 or gt , the rx8 ? sorry i don`t see it, decent car`s no doubt the mazda`s, i just would`nt call them "exiting" ......perhaps some of them i`d go as far as nice looking , efficient, economical, practical,etc .......... and tarring the whole dealership network because you had some bad experience is poor form imo when there are many of out there that are happy with the car/service.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by mik

i would have to dissagree mate, the exitement factor mazda vs`s ford ..........what does mazda have to compete with an xr8 or xr6 turbo or f6 or gt , the rx8 ? sorry i don`t see it, decent car`s no doubt the mazda`s, i just would`nt call them "exiting" ......perhaps some of them i`d go as far as nice looking , efficient, economical, practical,etc .......... and tarring the whole dealership network because you had some bad experience is poor form imo when there are many of out there that are happy with the car/service.

I think he means "exciting " for the majority of the buyer demographic...........not the absolute minority who buy the cars you have mentioned.

An FPV buyer will never be a MAZDA buyer and vice versa.

Exciting means different things to different people.
An FPV may very well be a HOON car to the majority of the buying public and not necessarily an exciting car..........

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Its a sign of the times and fords arrogance towards its customer base...

The amount of clients i have that have moved away from the Ford product in the last 18 months is huge! They arent worried about fuel consumption or any of that crap either.

As for Territory sales dipping, people arent going to upgrade their current Territory when a new one is identical to their 4 year old one!

You hit the nail on the head bloke. The missus wanted to trade on a new Territory (she was under the impression the new FG model meant a new Territory model) but was disappointed no new model was available.

Another lost sale and frankly we'd be looking at the Disco 3 TD as a replacement soon.

[banarcus]

Ford recently sent me a letter saying that I had pre-approved finance for $55k to purchase another XR8. The problem is that I really like my BA2 and I don't need a FG.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by mik

i would have to dissagree mate, the exitement factor mazda vs`s ford ..........what does mazda have to compete with an xr8 or xr6 turbo or f6 or gt , the rx8 ? sorry i don`t see it, decent car`s no doubt the mazda`s, i just would`nt call them "exiting" ......perhaps some of them i`d go as far as nice looking , efficient, economical, practical,etc .......... and tarring the whole dealership network because you had some bad experience is poor form imo when there are many of out there that are happy with the car/service.

A few points ...

Firstly, I have put my hard earned money on the table for a brand new G6E. Therefore, I have the right to criticise and express my displeasure. Have you put your money on the table for a new FG Falcon as well?

Secondly, if you have trouble believing that Mazda produces exciting vehicles then I think that you need to check your prejudices. See some of the Top Gear reviews on youtube (links below).

But, you miss the point that I was trying to make. Ford is playing price games. Unless the product is exceptional, customers soon get sick of getting gouged and move on. Mazda can charge a "full price" and the customers walk away feeling happy. Toyota sells ordinary products, however, rightly or wrongly, they have a good quality reputation and they do fleet discounts; Toyota customers walk away happy. GMH discount like there is no tomorrow, enough said.

Thirdly, you have picked up on just one word, “exciting”; completing ignoring the other issues of Ford ownership; “price” and “quality”.

As for “taring” the dealership, well, don't believe me. Have a quick check through this forum to see that I am not the only one having troubles with Ford Dealers.



Top Gear review of RX-8

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=QRiPSlx8PxA

Mazda 6 MPS Top Gear

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=KrpA4tdpV30

[mik]

you certainly have a right to complain if your car is not up to scratch, and no i don`t own a newey, i just get my nose a little out of joint with blanket criticism with Ford dealer`s when i know for a fact that some out there bend over backwards to do right by the customer, i worked at a melbourne Ford dealer for 3 year`s, and if the service guys are surly they should`nt be, allthough some customer`s come in with a confrontational attitude from the get go then expect to get treated nicely, it might be time to find another dealer if the service is crap, what state are you in if you don`t mind me askin, it does seem more complaint`s happen in the out of the way places, as for the "exiting" i guess that`s an individual thing, top gear`s review`s are pretty average and about as unscientific as you could possibly get imo, well agree to disagree on that one

[XFordFantomX]

Interest rates and petrol prices were high when the BA and Terra was selling like hotcakes so most of what they are saying is BS.
Ford America is stuffed and because they are stuffed we are the poor saps that cop it in the neck.

Gorman was sent over to swing the axe and close the engine plant.
Having done that he slithers off under a rock with blood on his hands.

Osbourne turns white and squibs it when the going gets tough. Still, he's put 350 families on the scrapheap. Didn't have the guts to face us. Utterly spineless.

[mr smith]

Smack on FantomX, I am sick of people including the Ford mouthpieces saying its fuel prices that are the reason for Fords problems. S@#t dealers are the biggest problem, here are a few stories from the last few weeks.
1. Bloke goes to a Keilor dealer for a XR6T test drive, told by dealer "you will drive it when you own it", goes accross the road and buys a WRX, after a test drive.
2. Bloke wants a price on a Focus from a campbellfield dealer, "I'll give you a price if you give me an order today" WTF
3. Bloke trys to get a test of a Mondeo XR5, no go.

These clowns should be giving away test drives at local shopping centers, they should be everywhere. Instead of spending money on crap TV ads that not only do they not get you excited about the product, they are that pox that they make you NOT want to by a Ford.
Maybe this company deserves to go, you couldn't run your own buisiness like Ford and survive.

[Wretched]

I wonder if we're starting to price ourselves out of work as well?
The industry needs a revolution to survive, whatever it takes. The current system just doesn't work.

[swapper]

Originally Posted by birdman941

In my opinion,
you should not let Toyota build anything in Australia.
Our Gvt. here in the states made the same mistake.
It will eventully hobble or kill Ford and GM/Holden.
Don't make the same mistake the US made.

i havent read the whole thread but im sorry, thats totally out,

Toyota building cars here is good for holden and ford, they give more work to local suppliers, which helps them keep costs down

this is the reason why Toyota have said GM and Ford situation in the US is hurting them.

and im sorry but only GM and Ford are to blame for their situations, i could write a whole essay as to why, but that would be a waste, but whilst they were saying they couldnt make profits in the US, and were moving everything offshore, toyota were building more plants in the US and making record profits.

also everyone else in the industry new that large car sales were going to slow, whilst small car sales would boom......GM, Ford and Chrysler didnt see he obvious and now they are hurting.

obviously thats just touching the surface but its not hard to see where they up