type of fish not what you asked for! I hate that!

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

No, I'm not missing the point at all... Why do you think that things are getting substituted? Because people dont want to pay for it.

In my case, they were still charging barramundi prices for it, so not being able to afford it, doesn't quite cut it.

I understand what you're saying though.

[FG_Frodza]

I can not stand the mashed up white sponge they try to pass off as calamari, I can't even eat that rubbish..

[Riksta]

Originally Posted by FG_Frodza

I can not stand the mashed up white sponge they try to pass off as calamari, I can't even eat that rubbish..

Damn straight, I know the exact crap you're talking about. Its like its powdered & reconstituted or something, at least that's what its texture is like.

And also agree with Mitch on the "rubber band" comment.

Like I said, its why I'll buy actual squid tubes (that would be hard to claim any other fish as due to unique shape) and cut the rings from it myself.

In fact, might have to go to a seafood joint later tomorrow arvo and get some for dinner tomorrow night, got a real taste for some real squid now...

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

No, I'm not missing the point at all... Why do you think that things are getting substituted? Because people dont want to pay for it.

And they have every right too, it's priced as flake, not cheaper crap. that's some set of ethics you got there. Everything for nothing lol the cost of living (food especially) is ridiculous.
It's not like it's advertised as flake and sold equal to haddock or whatever crappy fish it is. People won't pay for it because they can get real flake for that price. Stop trying to rip people off through deceptive advertising.

Maybe you could buy my old Pentium 2, I'll even put an put a i7 sticker on it for you so you can feel satisfied with what you paid for. Because I'm sure you're ok with that right? Just like all the other people you expect to be.

It's devious, disgusting false advertising, and I can't respect someone who condones this I'm sorry. There's a reason that **** is put into fish fingers and costs $3 in the frozen foods section. Don't get upset because the people you rip off daily have grown wise to your ploy.

God I can't believe people have the indecency to do this not to mention defend it, blatant rip off. Lol who am I kidding, people suck and the ones with all your money are the ones telling you to stop being so cheap.

I love it mate, you call people cheap for not wanting to buy COUNTERFEIT fish?? When selling counterfeit fish has to be the cheapest most deceptive thing in hospitality.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

All you whingers... complain that things are too expensive and dont buy local produce, then complain that there are cheap imports. Same can be said for the local car industry. Aussies want everything for nothing. We all seem to forget that there are millions of people in the world prepared to work alot harder than you for less. Remember this next time you complain about your job... soon you may not have one.

(1)Im not a whinger (2)Are you the mouthpeice for global inc? (3)Did you read the threads title?

Who are you to accuse me of not buying local,the only aussies who want everything cheap are the dodgy business owners so they can blatantly rip you and me off every time they sell something as genuine. Sorry but your argument is only frequently used by people who have nfi....... or one of those shop owners who are into dodgy work practises and who dont care about their customers or their own business..........and since you are being so patriotic, do you know how much business fraud costs Australia? In 2008 the cost to Australia was $8.5 billion and those numbers are from the federal government...........




ps-im not sure, but are you trying to gee us up Pepscobra?


cheers,Maka

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm not a fan of fish, as they all taste the same to me (except canned Tuna, thats nice), but I do go the ol' "Flake" at the fish and chip shop.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

I understand what you're saying though.

so do i - no one is innocent, no matter how much they claim to be

[dave351cid]

hmmm.... i guess its a sign of the times. asking for real fish and getting some substitute,, a bit like going to a burger franchise and asking for a steak burger.. dodgy as.
in this age of over regulation for most things you would think that someone would have the power to check up on what we are being fed.

[Polyal]

This is timely given good Friday, we got fish and chips and had a choice between Basa and Flake.

So I was of the opinion that Basa some a cheaper form of flake, so I naturally asked for Flake. But it still tasted pretty poor, actually, it was so plain there was no taste.

Where does Basa fit into the scale? (ha pun)

[aussiblue]

see: http://www.seafoodservices.com.au/fishnames

It does look like Victoria is not that interested in managing the issue.

Fish mislabelling survey commonly asked questions

Why was the fish mislabelling survey conducted?
There have been a number of reports of fish mislabelling and substitution in Australia.Government departments have conducted a pilot survey to develop analytical techniques sufficiently robust for enforcement purposes and to provide a preliminary assessment of the extent to which some species are mislabelled.

Why are some fish mislabelled or substituted?
Mislabelling and substitution can be intentional or accidental. While the true extent of fish mislabelling only now becoming apparent, only a small minority of people in the seafood industry intentionally or inadvertently mislabel fish. Most fish sold to consumers is labelled correctly.

The fish may be incorrectly identified at capture or wholesale and this name is carried on throughout the supply chain and used at point of sale to consumers. Some people may not have the expertise or experience to distinguish between fish species or fish names – increasing numbers of species make identification more difficult and confusing.

Wholesalers, restaurants, supermarkets and fishmongers may rename or substitute fish species in order to get a better sale price or to meet consumer demand for a particular species. Any supplier in the food chain could rename a fish in an attempt to make it more appealing to their customers.

Who carried out the pilot survey?
Sampling for the pilot survey was coordinated by the Environmental Health Service, Health Department of Western Australia and was carried out by Environmental Health jurisdictions of New South Wales, Northern Territory, South Australia, Queensland and Western Australia. In addition, samples were collected in the Australian Capital Territory and submitted by Food Standards Australia New Zealand (FSANZ).


How many samples were taken?
This was a small pilot survey that only took 138 samples and is not large enough to provide statistically valid samples. It is intended to use the information to target future enforcement activities.


What fish were included in the pilot survey and why?
The pilot survey mainly looked at two species – barramundi and red emperor. These species were selected because there is no ambiguity in the name they should be supplied under nationally and they are a high-value table fish which tend to be among the most commonly mislabelled species.

What were the findings?
The survey found that 106 out of the 138 fish samples were correctly labelled. Food service establishments (eg restaurants, cafes, takeaway stores) had the lowest level of compliance with 43 out of 67 samples correctly identifying the fish, 39 out of 44 samples from retailers (eg fishmongers, supermarkets) were compliant and 24 out of 27 samples from wholesalers were compliant.

Why has this survey been carried out at this time?
Whole fish are easily identifiable, but it is only very recently that techniques such as DNA fingerprinting have become available that can rapidly identify fish from samples of fillets or cooked fish. It is now possible to positively identify a fish no matter how it has been prepared – including shellfish.

What action is being taken about the results?
FSANZ and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have recently made a commitment to ensure close cooperation on protecting consumer rights in the area of food by signing a memorandum of understanding between the two regulators. The seafood industry has developed a list of standard marketing names (Australian Fish Names List), which is used by reputable suppliers of seafood. The industry has been working closely with FSANZ to develop advice to ensure that wholesalers, retailers, food service operators and consumers know exactly what they are buying.

Industry will also work with Standards Australia to develop an Australian Fish Names Standard. As this standard takes effect, there may be a significant number of fish names changed as local suppliers move from local to nationally consistent names.

What should consumers do to ensure they get the fish they are paying for?
Consumers should find a reputable fishmonger/restaurant that they can trust and, if they are concerned that the fish may be mislabelled, they should ask for someone experienced to confirm it. Consumers have the right to ask and confirm the name of the fish supplied before paying. Obvious signs that the supplier is using the correct fish names – for example, the Australian Seafood Handbook On display – would assist consumer confidence.

What should retailers and food service operators do to ensure they get the fish they are paying for?
•Clarify with the supplier whether they are using the accepted marketing name and use the scientific name to confirm if there is doubt. Ensure that your food safety plan includes a ‘fish name protocol’ for your business.
•Ask for and keep written evidence of the description of the fish that was supplied or have the type of fish sold documented on the invoice.
•Buy the bookAustralian Seafood Handbook (Domestic and Imported species)and learn the distinguishing visual characteristics of the fish and the flesh (there are some characteristics). Gain experience preparing fish from known whole samples. Ensure that you are up-to-date with new or changed names by consulting the Fish Names List at www.seafoodservices.com.au/fishnames
•Learn about how Australian fish are named so that you can talk about the issue with your customers. There is plenty of information on this at www.seafoodservices.com.au/fishnames .
•Ensure that your staff are conversant with this issue and understand the importance of consumers being able to make informed choices when purchasing. If in any doubt, discuss this issue with your training provider and include in your training plan.
•If you are confident you have this issue under control, then promote this in your business by advising to your customers that your business has adopted the correct fish marketing names protocol as per the Australian Fish Names List. This could be a sign in your shop or on the menu.

What should retail/food service operators do if they think they have been sold incorrectly labelled fish?
The supply of fish under the incorrect name may breach both food and trade practices legislation. If you have information or evidence of fish mislabelling, contact your supplier in the first instance or, if dissatisfied with the explanation or response received, the Office of Fair Trading, local council or Health Department in your State or Territory.

Where can I see the full survey results?
The full survey is on the FSANZ website www.foodstandards.gov.au .

Where can I get more information regarding correct fish names?
Go to www.seafoodservices.com.au/fishnames to obtain this information (including an updated list, details of the process of naming the fish, details of the Fish Names Committee, etc). You can also join the Seafood Services Network online and indicate you would like to be informed about any fish name changes or amendments.

Why is fish labelling an important issue?
There are many reasons, including:

•Consumers have a right to make informed choices when purchasing so must have confidence in correct labelling.
•Create greater consumer confidence in purchasing a healthy, nutritious food product.
•Some species of seafood may cause problems to susceptible populations, ranging from allergies to serious illness.
•Misleading or deceptive conduct when selling any product must be avoided.
•Essential for product traceability for seafood quality and safety.
•Improved outcomes and return on investments from fisheries research and stock assessments.
•Improved effectiveness of seafood marketing and promotion.

Do correct fish names apply only to Australian seafood products?
No, all seafood (live, frozen, chilled, fresh, canned, etc) sold in Australia, whether harvested and processed here or imported from another country, has to adhere to the Australian Fish Names List. Please note that food service establishments are not required to label fish as imported. They are, however, obliged to tell you the truth if you ask. So always be prepared to ask.

I guess the other factors that have an impact on encouraging fish substitution might include:


a) Australian seas are actually not that productive (little in the way of ocean upwellings that bring nutrients to the surface and most of our river systems are fed from deserts) compared to the rest of the world;

b)Australia consumes much more seafood than it produces;

c) most of our high value seafood (rock lobster) is exported to places like China where it gets a better price;

d) with increasing population and greater access to previously inaccessible coastal areas an increasing share of the available Australian wild stock fish resources is being moved from the commercial to the recreational fishing sector; and

e) our labour and infrastructure costs means its usually cheaper to aquaculture fish overseas.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by Maka

ps-im not sure, but are you trying to gee us up Pepscobra?


cheers,Maka

No, I'm honestly not... I come from a farming family and know how much cheap imports are hurting our local industries. My father used to grow oranges, but then everyone started importing concentrate from south america and local demand crashed. Remember the old Cottees ad 'my dad picks the fruit that makes the cordial that I like best'..... you'll never hear that again.

Ok, sorry, maybe I got off track to the op's intention, but it was mentioned about the barramundi that is imported and other cheap substitutes. Unfortunately its a sign of the times and a symptom of our economy. I'm just passionate about it.

Cheers.

[EDManual]

Originally Posted by Polyal

This is timely given good Friday, we got fish and chips and had a choice between Basa and Flake.

So I was of the opinion that Basa some a cheaper form of flake, so I naturally asked for Flake. But it still tasted pretty poor, actually, it was so plain there was no taste.

Where does Basa fit into the scale? (ha pun)

Dont eat Basa!

Basa Fillets Warning


General Discussion

Someone sent me this info not sure how true it is but i tend to believe it.

BASA FILLETS are a common fish in all the local food stores.

Many are snatching up the fish at supermarkets as they are very cheap.
The fish looks good but read the article and you will be shocked.

This product is from Vietnam.

Do you eat this frozen fish called BASA? ( Pangasius, Vietnamese River Cobbler, White Catfish, Gray Sole )

Industrially farmed in Vietnam along the Mekong River, BASA or Pangas or whatever they're calling it, has only been recently introduced to the French market. However, in a very short amount of time, it has grown in popularity in France. They are very, very affordable (cheap), are sold in filets with no bones and they have a neutral flavor and texture; many would compare it to cod and sole, only much cheaper. But as tasty as some people may find it, there's, in fact, something hugely unsavory about it. I hope the information provided here will serve as very important information for you and your future choices. Here's why it is better left in the shops and not on your dinner plates:

1. BASAS or Pangas are teeming with high levels of poisons and bacteria. (industrial effluents, arsenic, and toxic and hazardous by-products of the growing industrial sector, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), DDT and its metabolites (DDTs), metal contaminants, chlordane-related compounds (CHLs), hexachlorocyclohexane isomers (HCHs), and hexachlorobenzene (HCB) ).

The reason is that the Mekong River is one of the most polluted rivers on the planet and this is where basa/pangas are farmed and industries along the river dump chemicals and industrial waste directly into it. Avoid eating them because they contain high amounts of contamination. Regardless of Reports and recommendations against selling them, supermarkets still sell them, knowing full well that they are contaminated.

2. They freeze Basa/Pangas in contaminated river water.

3. BASA/Pangas are raised in Vietnam . Pangas are fed food that comes from Peru ( more on that below ), their hormones ( which are injected into the female Pangas ) come from China . ( More about that below ) and finally, they are transported from Vietnam to other countries .

4. There's nothing natural about Basa/Pangas - They're fed dead fish remnants and bones, dried and ground into a flour (from South America), manioc ( cassava ) and residue from soy and grains. This kind of nourishment doesn't even remotely resemble what they eat in nature. But what it does resemble is the method of feeding mad cows ( cows were fed cows, remember? ). What they feed basa/pangas is completely unregulated so there are most likely other dangerous substances and hormones thrown into the mix. The basa/pangas grow 4 times faster than in nature, so it makes you wonder what exactly is in their food? Your guess is as good as mine.

5. Basa/Pangas are injected with Hormones Derived from Urine. They inject female Basa/Pangas with hormones made from the dehydrated urine of pregnant women, the female Pangas grow much quicker and produce eggs faster ( one Basa/Panga can lay approximately 500,000 eggs at one time ). Essentially, they're injecting fish with hormones ( they come all of the way from a pharmaceutical company in China ) to speed up the process of growth and reproduction. That isn't good. And also consider the rest of the reasons to NOT eat BASA.

6. You get what you pay for - and then some. Don't be lured in by insanely cheap price of Basa/Pangas. Is it worth risking your health and the health of your family?

7. Buying Basa/Pangas supports unscrupulous, greedy corporations and food conglomerates that don't care about the health and well-being of human beings. They are only concerned about selling as many basa/pangas as possible to unsuspecting consumers. These corporations only care about making more money at whatever cost to the public..

8. Basa/Pangas WILL make you sick - If you don't get ill with vomiting, diarrhea and effects from severe food poisoning, congratulations, you have an iron stomach! But you're still ingesting POISON not "poisson".

Final important note: Because of the prodigious amount of availability of Basa/Pangas, be warned that they will certainly find their way into other foods like imitation crab sticks, fish sticks, fish terrines, and probably in some pet food too. Just check the Ingredient List to see if Basa is one of the ingredients. Good Luck.

You have been warned !!!

[EDManual]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx4cykHy0RM

I know its Today Tonight trying to be sensational, but still!!

Also there are heaps of fresh fish that are ok to eat from oz that are at least as cheap! Leatherjackets, yellow eye mullet, even Australian salmon and wrasse are other very very cheap fish that when real fresh are quite good eating!

[G6ET8U]

Just as an interesting point from a neutral observer here... I've never been fishing in my life.

I haven't really ever eaten much fish, oysters etc, it just never did it for me. This has changed in the last few months.

My best mate is a commercial construction foreman and he built/ran the build of the new wholesale fish market here in Melbourne. Kensington actually and finished only in the last 2 months.

I am a convert. I love cooking, I watch heaps of cooking shows etc and just couldn't work out why they always rave on about fish.

I do now. Fresh, crazy quality and whole fish etc. I would never had considered having fish over a good steak but I certainly do now. I'd actually prefer it.

He is able to get the most amazing oysters, salmon, blue eye, rockling etc and it is just stunning. From the wholesalers and what he is told is the stuff that is for them, will never get to market. Just brilliant.

I could never understand once again why people in general where so mad about fish but I, once again, do now. Good seafood is worth every penny!

Jack

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

No, I'm honestly not... I come from a farming family and know how much cheap imports are hurting our local industries. My father used to grow oranges, but then everyone started importing concentrate from south america and local demand crashed. Remember the old Cottees ad 'my dad picks the fruit that makes the cordial that I like best'..... you'll never hear that again.

Ok, sorry, maybe I got off track to the op's intention, but it was mentioned about the barramundi that is imported and other cheap substitutes. Unfortunately its a sign of the times and a symptom of our economy. I'm just passionate about it.

Cheers.

Obviously a very passionate debate and one close to everyones heart lol! I ,(like everyone else), am extremly disappointed at the gradual whittling down of our agriculture and manufacturing sectors over the many years and this situation and discussion is just one of the many manifestations of this problem. A choice will have to be made in the near future by our leaders - the future of our great country and people or keep playing on a unlevel playing field undermining our children and their children's future.........
We (Australia) are not the dumping ground for cheap, nasty foreign goods & services while our people are suffering in the 10s of thousands.

ps, Great to see the many members airing their thoughts & opinions! !

cheers,Maka

[TheSneakiness]

My father in law has been in commercial fishing for years and its great when we go there and he's caught fresh bream and a bull shark or two for a feed. Great, great tasting stuff. He was (still is?) part of Fishwatch.

I will never eat Basa, it's just cheap rubbish. And there are only two places I will eat seafood from a shop. One is the fish and chip store at Portside Hamilton (pay through the nose for it though) and Peter's Seafood Market at Main Beach near Seaworld.

[aussiblue]

The problem with eating a lot of flake (shark) is the methylmercury content especially with mature specimens see http://www.ffc.org.au/Mercury_and_fish.html

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by EDManual

5. Basa/Pangas are injected with Hormones Derived from Urine. They inject female Basa/Pangas with hormones made from the dehydrated urine of pregnant women, the female Pangas grow much quicker and produce eggs faster ( one Basa/Panga can lay approximately 500,000 eggs at one time ). Essentially, they're injecting fish with hormones ( they come all of the way from a pharmaceutical company in China ) to speed up the process of growth and reproduction. That isn't good. And also consider the rest of the reasons to NOT eat BASA.

This sounds a bit far fetched....is there a pregnant women **** farm?

Not a fan of fish BUT worst Fish and Chips I've ever had by a long way? Manly in Sydney cost 20 bucks too. Told the waiter, he laughed and said the business is not about repeat customers. Patrons are all tourists so they buy once and go back home....

[flappist]

Guys the swear filter is there for TWO reasons:

1) To keep the forum family friendly
2) To prevent you getting a holiday.

If you do purposely avoid it then the forum will not be family friendly and we will have to fix it but don't worry YOU will not be able to see it for a while......

hint hint........

[Mr Hardware]

G6ET8U, even better than that is catching a fish yourself at say 4:30pm, scaling & filleting it and having your mrs cook it up and eating it by 6pm. I have never, ever had a more satisfying a meal in my life.

[TZENU]

The only fish I tend to buy from the supermarket is Atlantic salmon.....

I catch the rest; king george, snapper, gummy, squid et al.. But if im ever to buy fresh fish, I'll buy whole and get the fishmonger to gut it for me, that way I know what I am eating.

[kaniSS]

As a fisho I know these imports are grown in polluted water I've always told friends and family to buy local fish. What do they do? buy this Basa ****, cause it's cheap.

You can't win. As long as the local market is over priced they will lose their profit to these cheap imports.

[aussiblue]

As long as the local market is over priced they will lose their profit to these cheap imports.

I don't think the local market is overpriced it's just that a large part of the buying public is not aware that the local product is generally higher quality ( as well as fresher) and the higher price is justified.

[Riksta]

Interesting read, thanks for that EDManual.

[mik]

[QUOTE=Maka](1)Im not a whinger (2)Are you the mouthpeice for global inc? (3)Did you read the threads title?

Who are you to accuse me of not buying local,the only aussies who want everything cheap are the dodgy business owners so they can blatantly rip you and me off every time they sell something as genuine. Sorry but your argument is only frequently used by people who have nfi....... or one of those shop owners who are into dodgy work practises and who dont care about their customers or their own business..........and since you are being so patriotic, do you know how much business fraud costs Australia? In 2008 the cost to Australia was $8.5 billion and those numbers are from the federal government...........

those figures are from the federal guvment.......so it must be true

being serious now, i like a bit of the old fish myself, i have been sold something other than what i ordered before ,
as it seems very few if any fish shops in melbourne north know how to cook fish with any flavour other than old boot or dried out and cardboard so it`s hard to tell anyway ,
i travel 20 k`s for decent feed of fish n greasies to williamstown, the fish you order in this shop are in a glass fridge so you see what your getting, always good stuff.

while we have a few fish experts , when i was in Geraldton WA, i went in to a fish shop and asked for flake, the dude looked at me like i was a martian, anyway he did`nt have know what flake was(fairdinkum) and did`nt have any,
so he sold me Hokey, i did`nt think much of it , but what the hell is hokey?

[Riksta]

Originally Posted by mik

what the hell is hokey?

Isn't that where you put your left leg in...

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

In regard to fish, I don't buy imported and in particular I don't buy Basa from Africa. I recall reading some time ago that the planes fly in guns and fly out with this (awful, bland, tasteless) fish.

I don't need my fish to fly before I eat, a nonsensical use of the planet's resources.

Not sure if this was what you read about - I saw a doco called 'Darwin's Nightmare' (2004) about the introduced Nile Perch coming from Tanzania's Lake Victoria... European arms dealers fly in old soviet Ilyushins, often full of munitions from Western countries which fuel conflict through the region, and fly out the processed fillets to European supermarkets. The impoverished locals can't afford the high-priced fillets and have to subsist on the rotting carcass waste from the factories (the Nile Perch has wiped out pretty much everything else living in the lake). Total social, economic and environmental shambles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%27s_Nightmare

[Maka]

*In 2008 the cost to Australia was $8.5 billion and those numbers are from the federal government...........


those figures are from the federal guvment.......so it must be true*



Yeah mik! i was waiting for someone (as cynical as me?) to say something about that figure lol! As if they would know/admit the real figures but if they admitted that, whats the real cost (today) ?


ps,that was takin from their own website........UMM OK!


cheers, Maka

[aussiblue]

Hoki is New Zealand Blue grenadier and is also usually what McDonald's Fillet-o - Fish is made from.

[mik]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Hoki is New Zealand Blue grenadier and is also usually what McDonald's Fillet-o - Fish is made from.

hahah good onya mate thanks, it was bloody years ago when i had that, it`s not a patch on well cooked flake.