2013 Shelby GT500

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by flappist

Corvette QLD has a few converted ones and there is a Roush for sale up here if you are keen.

Cheers....

I have been up there a couple a times.....but sorry no takers here for them prices......the whole US/AUS price difference is just to ludicrous for me....

How many RHD countrys are there where they could market them....???

[Bossxr8]

I'm suprised the conrods aren't a lot beefier. They almost look like standard size ones.

[69Mach1]

In case you thought the horsepower wars were coming to an end.....

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by FPVGT500

Arnt they both considered live rear axles anyway???

Yes, but to quote the great Jeremy Clarkson

“600 horsepower and leaf springs?! Are you mad?”

[Wretched]

very nice, keen to see how it will go around a circuit.

[Windsor342ci]

Are we sure about coil??? My mate 2009 KR Mustang has leaf spring. Very surprising!!!

[Falc'man]

The whole range has been updated/facelifted, and the GT also gets an increase to 420hp. That's 6hp less than the 6.2 litre LS3, with 1.2 litre deficit.

For those wanting this GT500 here, you need to let go of the Falcon first. You can't and won't have both.

The good news is - if I'm guessing right -we'll get the best of both worlds.

[Falc'man]

Love the track app.

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/1...-2013-mustang/

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by CRYHSV

Are we sure about coil??? My mate 2009 KR Mustang has leaf spring. Very surprising!!!

No it doesnt

[ltd_on20s]

we won't even see those rocker covers here.

we need another 15 million people here for the US to seriously think of bringing their goodies down here.

[FPVGT500]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

The whole range has been updated/facelifted, and the GT also gets an increase to 420hp. That's 6hp less than the 6.2 litre LS3, with 1.2 litre deficit.

For those wanting this GT500 here, you need to let go of the Falcon first. You can't and won't have both.

The good news is - if I'm guessing right -we'll get the best of both worlds.

You mean one day we might get to buy this here? Or the engine will somehow make itself in an FPV?

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

For those wanting this GT500 here, you need to let go of the Falcon first. You can't and won't have both.

+1

Daniel

[BAGT514]

Originally Posted by Pedro

You'd just about have to R&R the engine to fit a new surpentine belt. LOL

This is much the same setup as we have on the supercharger Miami. The accessories run of the front belt with the supercharger belt closer to the block to take the load off the crank snout.
They have been like this since 2007 - just not with an alloy block and only 5.4 lts

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

Because both of the potential customers would find some other reason not to buy it.

We had RHD Mustangs at about the same price as a TS50 (GT-P) here a few years ago, they were abject failures as far as sales were concerned.

Not really, Ford only intended selling 500 and when you add in two local crash tests
at $500,000 a piece, that's $20,000 per car before you land it here and do the conversion.
Had the Mustang been engineered from get go for RHD, the cost would have been far less and
roughly, $20,000 a car could have been shaved off by doing everything under the original project.
That interest actually sparked Ford to do the XR8 and GT at the same price as converted Mustangs.


IMO, if Ford introduced the Mustang here, it would end the need for Falcon to be all things to all people,
we might actually get a better suited Falcon for our market that captures more sales while the mustang
would allow FPV to pursue other objectives....like tuner versions of the wider Ford range..

[flappist]

Big picture......

Australia has had quite a number of locally made coupes.
Monaro
Monaro Mk2
Falcon Hard Top

None of these ever did very well.

There have been squillions of imports both holden/ford badged and other marques.

None have ever sold more than a trickle despite in some cases very good pricing.

Like quite a number of products launched in Australia there is always a lot of cheering and clapping but the majority who cheer and clap don't actually buy and of those that do buy the majority seem to want to wait until they can get one cheap second hand.

[Reaper8]

now that is sex on wheels, looks better than a blonde supermodel

[Polyal]

So whats wrong with the theory that when/if the mustang goes global as has been suggested then why cant we get it here? If they make it RHD from the start then its just ADR's that need to be met, and if it is a true global car then the majority of them would be met via a design that facilitates all markets. Is that not how the original worked?

The one circa 2000, while nice enough, got a canning from the press for being a little down on power for the price asked and the overall fit and finish pretty poor. Which is consistent which US cars for the time, they are a little better now.

As for the examples of local companies converting, it doesnt matter how good the cut and shut job is they charge like wounded bulls, I think even die hard Ford fans find it hard to justify close enough to $100k for a base model GT....once you start looking at roush/saleen etc then its just madness, the price puts the cars close enough into supercar territory that come RHD from factory. Fine it might be an accurate reflection of the work involved, but it doesnt change the sticker price and what else you could get for the money.

Agreed there is no way Oz could ever get it for themselves, heck we have enough trouble keeping high(ish) volume sedans at the moment

[HSE2]

Two doors don't work in this country. The Mustang has no sustainable future unless it grows a further two doors. Its romance to think otherwise.

[Polyal]

I agree making them here doesnt add up, but having it available "if" it was part of the global catalog surely wouldnt hurt (based on a "order it in" system if the buyer wants something not in stock or unique).

There are plenty of manufacturers that seem to think otherwise, Japanese (Z and GTR) and Euro's for example. But they only work when the car is developed for multiple markets. Australia is really no different to any other country, otherwise importers wouldnt even bother in the first place.

Even if it was a couple of hundred sales per year, surely thats better than having no presence at all (assuming its a financially positive process).

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Two doors don't work in this country. The Mustang has no sustainable future unless it grows a further two doors. Its romance to think otherwise.

because we don't have the population base.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree making them here doesnt add up, but having it available "if" it was part of the global catalog surely wouldnt hurt (based on a "order it in" system if the buyer wants something not in stock or unique).

There are plenty of manufacturers that seem to think otherwise, Japanese (Z and GTR) and Euro's for example. But they only work when the car is developed for multiple markets. Australia is really no different to any other country, otherwise importers wouldnt even bother in the first place.

Even if it was a couple of hundred sales per year, surely thats better than having no presence at all (assuming its a financially positive process).

Agreed.
Toyota and Subaru are also moving into that market with the FT86/BR-Z.
There is a market but relying on just one market/country is silly.

[HSE2]

IMO it doesn't matter where they are made. There is no demand for them in the demographic that will pay for them. Once the initial surge is over the numbers will fall to the point that the low importation just won't be worth it. Ford consumers don't want to pay any sort of premium. There is no such thing as a low importation principle just because it exists. There is a GT500down here. It's not a very good car. You would seriously have to have a love affair to walk pass any European or Jap coupe for it.

You look at your Merc coupes and the BMW coupes and you are again into a another set of consumer dynamics. A mustang is a real niche group.
As a global car it still has to pass our legislations which has been an issue for some time even with companies that dominate importation markets. Provided someone can see fit to shell out for that expense, importation on a limited edition basis would be a distinct possibility but that means exclusivity and that means expensive.
They want it to be affordable. In this country a GT500 with that engine is going to be well above 100k. We have a large percentage of people saying they wouldn't pay 50k for a Falcon. Well I am here to tell you the Mustang as a brand is the exact same way. To justify it you have to do so in exactly the same way people have to justify the Falcon performance range and Australian just can't do it.
People simply just can't say yes its expensive for a Falcon but look at what you have to pay to get...... In the end its still reverts to its just a Falcon and off we go again. The mustang works in the US for a number of romantic reasons and of late the car that started the genre isn't the market leader. There is a certain amount of history that underpins its existence not too far from what our own industry is built on. We can see where that will eventuate.

[Falc'man]

Okay, it's sunk in now, 650hp is a fair bit. The article claims it's the world's most powerful production V8. Not bad.

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree making them here doesnt add up, but having it available "if" it was part of the global catalog surely wouldnt hurt (based on a "order it in" system if the buyer wants something not in stock or unique).

That is closer to where I was coming from. Think about where Lincoln is headed and we might just see a wider, more encompassing range of RWD products in the future. Unless, of course, Ford Australia choose not to be a part of One Ford.

[Polyal]

Where it is made makes all the difference, its what sets the price in the first place. I should of pointed out I was not talking about the GT500 per se, thats a given that it will never work. I was secretly referring to the base GT. Im sure I recall see Super Snakes north of $200k...which is dedication to say the least.

The people that currently buy these cars are majorly dedicated, to the point of border line crazy with the asking prices.

But the bread and butter mustang is where I think there is some potential. But again, unless Ford implement "One Ford" properly it wont work. Perhaps if they had a plan to R&D the RHD mustang in the USA or even here, then manufacture it for Asia Pacific (or all RHD versions) in say Taiwan. From there Ford/Dealers stock small numbers and work on an build to order system.

I believe any coupe that has been here for a long period, or has been "successful", is part of a global program. If anything like the above was to happen then the price has to be kept down, it is a Ford afterall and the point of the Mustang is to be a sports car for the "average" person...$100k plus aint average.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree making them here doesnt add up, but having it available "if" it was part of the global catalog surely wouldnt hurt (based on a "order it in" system if the buyer wants something not in stock or unique).

There are plenty of manufacturers that seem to think otherwise, Japanese (Z and GTR) and Euro's for example. But they only work when the car is developed for multiple markets. Australia is really no different to any other country, otherwise importers wouldnt even bother in the first place.

Even if it was a couple of hundred sales per year, surely thats better than having no presence at all (assuming its a financially positive process).

So the minute sales of Zs (80/mth in a good month) and GTRs (single digit sales only) are your basis?

RHD markets are Japan (and there are unique issues there the most obvious being written language), pommyland (where they can drive LHD safely which something that some manny Australians think is dangerous, and we wonder why we are nannied), here and NZ (where coupes seem not to sell and we have one of the oldest average car ages in the developed world), South Africa (road rules? what you talking about mon)

The way to solve all all these problems is to allow LHD cars here.

All of Europe, Asia and Africa seem to be able to do it safely but the wowsers and nannyistas all think it is too dangerous and difficult.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

So the minute sales of Zs (80/mth in a good month) and GTRs (single digit sales only) are your basis?

No its was just an example on one manufacturer that seems to think its worth perusing, and can do because they have already done the work through a thorough program. I dont have coupe/sports car sales on hand, but off the top of my head you have BMW 3 series, Merc C, Audi 5 (and other coupes) etc...its not large but its not tiny either.

Originally Posted by flappist

RHD markets are Japan (and there are unique issues there the most obvious being written language), pommyland (where they can drive LHD safely which something that some manny Australians think is dangerous, and we wonder why we are nannied), here and NZ (where coupes seem not to sell and we have one of the oldest average car ages in the developed world), South Africa (road rules? what you talking about mon)

Also India to name another. Again though global manufacturers currently sell coupes to these markets with models "adjusted", so it can be done.

Originally Posted by flappist

The way to solve all all these problems is to allow LHD cars here.All of Europe, Asia and Africa seem to be able to do it safely but the wowsers and nannyistas all think it is too dangerous and difficult

I certainly dont disagree with that...it does my head in.

Im not saying you guys are not right, history shows (Falcon hard top needing to be run out with the Cobra..FTe Mustang slow sales) that the coupe market can be fickle. But if all you are doing is giving the market the chance to purchase and only needing to support the product then perhaps its worth the punt.

The Mustang also has massive brand equity aswell, although AFAIK the last time it was sold here officially (bare Fte) was the 60's.

[HSE2]

What sets the price is demand. Australian is one right hand drive market.
Where it's made is irrelevant. If Tata chose to manufacturer Jag in India it would not lower the costs to the consumer. The reduction in manufacturing would be pocketed by Tata.
What you are trying to say is that because the Mustang is engineered for right hand drive markets on a volume basis the price should be more obtainable. Makes sense if people want them but they don't.
The only way there is no penalty in a global one ford market is if they make all markets left hand drive. Even then you still have the cost of putting limited cars on the ground unless you don't intend to support them.
On top of that, consumer demands for lower prices has a knock on. Limited numbers still require part allocation. In today's accounting terms that means overheads that are not welcome.

The ideology behind the thinking is build it and they will come. It is simply wrong.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

because we don't have the population base.

That's part of it. I grew up with the coupes of the 70s. I didn't think so back then, but they were very attractive cars but hopeless to live with.
Even today the people that buy coupes often say that if you only have two people they are fine. Four just embarrassing. So for sure there is a special requirement or appeal that narrows the potential customer base. Just because its available doesn't mean it makes financial since to make it so.
On top of that we are influenced in our tasted by not just one culture. We are very broad and that makes this market very tough when you combine that with the point you make.
If there are to be additional lines of product availability it will be in the areas of growth not niche. If there was a four door version then importing both would change the game considerably because you increase the appeal and target audience. A two door Mustang has too much going against it. The badge for a start, country of origin second.
If Falcon is still here and in what form would dictate what strategy Ford would implement.

It's one thing to make a product available. That happens every day. What also happens every day is that models get pulled from our markets because they don't sell. They are already a global product available in multiple markets just as the Mustang potentially would be. They quietly disappear because there is no demand for them and what demand there is doesn't justify the support required. Out the back door they go with next to no fanfare. Given our history and our preferences it is really hard to see any model mustang make a sustainable go of it and that isn't allowing for the shift towards smaller performance options.

[Polyal]

I dont disagree with that logic HSE2, but then how do the makers of the current coupes in the market for Australia (or even Asia Pacific) , which have not been a flash in the pan, justify it? I guess that was what I am getting at.

My guess is they can justify it by the lift it gives the brand as a whole, even if they just break even it could be worth it. They engineer it from day one to be a global car. Or perhaps they are willing to take a hit in Oz on them and its seen as reasonable given their global income and that moving cars is the ultimate goal.

[Bossxr8]

Marketing people use the term "half live's" to describe Coupe sales. Sales half every year after the first, because they are seen as fashion statements that when the novalty wears off their sales die because of their impracticalities. It happened to both Monaros and the Falcon Coupe.