G6E-T and G8E.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

You cannot seriously compare Fairmont Ghia V8 to a G8E even powered with a Boss 290..

The Fairmont Ghia was always under powered and seriously lacked the visual asthetics of the G series car.... Fairmont Ghia was always seen as an oldmans car, a G8E on the other hand just like G6E T wouldnt have that old man perception about it.. Just like the Calais V doesnt seem to with many younger buyers getting them.

Im not saying the V8 is the ultimate engine, im just saying it would be nice to have the option of it.. Infact I believe a G8E would sell BETTER then G6ET, just like the GT sells better then F6..

But then again thats another story for another day.

And the XR6T outsells the XR8, why????

The GT sells better than every other FPV for two reasons and two reasons only.

Reason 1) The letter G
Reason 2) The letter T

You know this, it has been debated ad nauseum on here and other places for years......

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ummm, because they want a luxury car with a bit more power????

High powered G6ETs are popular, high powered Fairmont Ghia V8s were not.

Why?

Sounds like you are only taking the AU/BA era into consideration there flappist. V8 Ghias were very popular in the E-series days when the standard V8 was pretty much as powerful as the sports versions.

BTW I'm a V8 enthusiest but I'm not that dim witted that I know that the turbo 6 or any other engine configuration may be or is better than a V8. We're not all the knuckle dragging neanderthals you seem to think we are.

It's not all about power, it's also about presence, aura and perception. V8's have a certain presence about them built on past reputation. Until this changes (which it inevitably will in the current eco climate) V8s and luxury go well together.

[Falc'man]

Ford's way of marketing it would have the largest bearing on how well it sold, as it will give nothing away to any of it's competitors. The name "G8E" might sound too good and render the G6ET to 2nd place??

Originally Posted by chevypower

Actually, I'm not sure that's entirely true. Coyote will be standard on the F150, it will be optional on the Mustang. I'm sure it was designed from the start to coexist on both, but it is designed for the F150. Having said that, I know it will be very suitable as a performance car engine.

Yes, it replaces the "small" V8 in the F-series, only because that will be discontinued? In terms of size it's lighter and no bigger than the 4.6, so it's punching well above it's weight. It's more the perception that I was referring to, and that it won't be as compromised with a stroke longer than that of the big block 460.

[Auslandau]

If these were introduced, it would have to be the FPV range where sales would come from. If you want something a bit more than an XR8, you have to jump over the G6ET and then look at GT's only.

For me looking at buying something and would highly consider a G6ET .... but I stll want a V8 ..... so it would have to be a GT, BUT if a G8E came into the equation, this is where I would look. I dont want a turbo so at the moment thats where it stands.

It would have to take some sales from the oppositon as they are a great looking car, interior and exterior in comparison.

Must say though, it does to seem to be the only missing link at the moment. Even though the FG range is quite huge and does cause a little bit of dilema when the turbos are so good. Before the FG's, I had no problems in deciding what I wanted, the options are just too good at the moment!

Originally Posted by Boss315

I remember a time when the Falcon was the best selling car in the country (yes I have a very long memory).

Wasn't that long ago ... it was the day before AU Forte Series 1 was launched



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[Franco Cozzo]

I think if they wanted to launch one, do it while the generation that can afford these cars are still buying, because once my generation gets rich enough to own these things new from the factory floor, they won't give a fat rats clacker about a V8, 95% of my generation likes Turbo 4s/6s over V8s.

Personally (and my opinion doesnt matter because I cant afford one) I'd go the 6 over the 8, its faster, uses less fuel, sounds better and the engine is made here in Australia.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by auslandau

If these were introduced, it would have to be the FPV range where sales would come from. If you want something a bit more than an XR8, you have to jump over the G6ET and then look at GT's only.

For me looking at buying something and would highly consider a G6ET .... but I stll want a V8 ..... so it would have to be a GT, BUT if a G8E came into the equation, this is where I would look. I dont want a turbo so at the moment thats where it stands.

It would have to take some sales from the oppositon as they are a great looking car, interior and exterior in comparison.

Must say though, it does to seem to be the only missing link at the moment. Even though the FG range is quite huge and does cause a little bit of dilema when the turbos are so good. Before the FG's, I had no problems in deciding what I wanted, the options are just too good at the moment!


Wasn't that long ago ... it was the day before AU Forte Series 1 was launched

It was the EF actually. It was the last Falcon to have market leadership back in 95. The EL was narrowly beaten the next year but got belted when the VT was released in 97 and Ford didn't have the AU ready for another 6 months or so. The AU amplified the problem though.

As for the G8E if it was roughly about as quick as the G6ET I would choose the 8 over the 6.

[FGX-351]

Perception is reality and public perception is the gm v8s are much stronger units than than those available from ford.

My guess is that a G8E would cut into calais v v8 sales but only if the above were overcome.
Those who prefer the v8 option dont care about the turbo engine being quicker.
People who generally buy these types of cars probably don't care about 1/4 mile times but theres always that desire to own the best and have the bragging rights.

Hopefully coyote can get eliminate the stigma of ford v8s.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

Perception is reality and public perception is the gm v8s are much stronger units than than those available from ford.

My guess is that a G8E would cut into calais v v8 sales but only if the abovew were overcome.
People who generally buy these types of cars probably don't care about 1/4 mile times but theres always that desire to own the best and have the bragging rights.

Hopefully coyote can get eliminate the stigma of ford v8s.

A 6 Litre Commodore with AFM (which is what the Calais has) will not chop a Boss 290....

In lineball efforts a BOSS 290 will eat a 260kw AFM, providing its run in and served with the right juice.

[FPV8U]

I know a FGII G-Series is on my dads Radar, the idea of a G8E gets him very excited to the point if they made one at the moment with The Boss Engine (Much loved in our family) it would be in his driveway.

Although i must admit if G8E doesn't go ahead he does really like the G6ET.. then again had i not cememented him in as a Blue man he might have looked at a Calias V 6.0L A6 due to Fords lack of "tradtional" V8 Luxo Model without Spending GTE Bucks.

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

A 6 Litre Commodore with AFM (which is what the Calais has) will not chop a Boss 290....

In lineball efforts a BOSS 290 will eat a 260kw AFM, providing its run in and served with the right juice.

Even though most enthusiasts here know that the boss is quicker.
Most of the public/non enthusiasts perceve that holden have the bigger, faster v8s.
"perception is reality"

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

I think if they wanted to launch one, do it while the generation that can afford these cars are still buying, because once my generation gets rich enough to own these things new from the factory floor, they won't give a fat rats clacker about a V8, 95% of my generation likes Turbo 4s/6s over V8s.

Personally (and my opinion doesnt matter because I cant afford one) I'd go the 6 over the 8, its faster, uses less fuel, sounds better and the engine is made here in Australia.

I think this coment sums up the long term future for a Ford V8 perfectly......me also thinks that unless the coyote V8 is something very special indeed, it is already a dead duck in the water no matter how its packaged. :evil3:


Cheers Mick

[Dr Smith]

As the owner of a G6ET who obviously could have bought a XR6T or XR8 with luxury pack I really wanted the "wolf in sheeps clothing" of the G6ET. I wanted as much luxury as I could get with the highest level of performance available and the look of a luxury car. I'm 44 with a young family so probably right in the target market. The XR's look great however the G series suit me better and have a far greater differentiation to the previous model. In fact if there had of been a Fairlaine "FG turbo" I would have bought that for the extra rear leg room. The turbo gives me more performance then I can handle however the luxury interior I enjoy every second I'm in the car. If the new V8 can match the turbo's power I would sacrifice some economy if it matched the turbo in braking/handling etc...If the option was available today between identical performance/handling/ride and very similar ecomony/specs/features would I buy the 8 over the turbo, probably, but not if it was a big jump in price for only a better engine note as I would rather spend the extra on more features.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

Perception is reality and public perception is the gm v8s are much stronger units than than those available from ford.

My guess is that a G8E would cut into calais v v8 sales but only if the above were overcome.
Those who prefer the v8 option dont care about the turbo engine being quicker.
People who generally buy these types of cars probably don't care about 1/4 mile times but theres always that desire to own the best and have the bragging rights.

Hopefully coyote can get eliminate the stigma of ford v8s.

You summed it up well, especially the first two sentences. If Ford don't release this then I think they have an inferiority complex; there is no way the VE is a better car than FG, nor would the L76 be any better than the new V8, or the old one for that matter. It pains me to see Ford allow lost sales to a mostly inferior product, only because they've given in to perception.
It's competitor isn't really the I6T, it's overcoming what you said in the first few lines.

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

I think if they wanted to launch one, do it while the generation that can afford these cars are still buying, because once my generation gets rich enough to own these things new from the factory floor, they won't give a fat rats clacker about a V8, 95% of my generation likes Turbo 4s/6s over V8s.

Personally (and my opinion doesnt matter because I cant afford one) I'd go the 6 over the 8, its faster, uses less fuel, sounds better and the engine is made here in Australia.

You see, when the cars discussed are the luxury type and not rice bubbles and hairdryers, you would need to consider not the generation, but more the level of maturity.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

As the owner of a G6ET who obviously could have bought a XR6T or XR8 with luxury pack I really wanted the "wolf in sheeps clothing" of the G6ET. I wanted as much luxury as I could get with the highest level of performance available and the look of a luxury car. I'm 44 with a young family so probably right in the target market. The XR's look great however the G series suit me better and have a far greater differentiation to the previous model. In fact if there had of been a Fairlaine "FG turbo" I would have bought that for the extra rear leg room. The turbo gives me more performance then I can handle however the luxury interior I enjoy every second I'm in the car. If the new V8 can match the turbo's power I would sacrifice some economy if it matched the turbo in braking/handling etc...If the option was available today between identical performance/handling/ride and very similar ecomony/specs/features would I buy the 8 over the turbo, probably, but not if it was a big jump in price for only a better engine note as I would rather spend the extra on more features.

Spot on, move with the times.....if you want to hear a better engine note crank up a mechanical Cleveland.


Cheers Mick

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Oh god not another potential v8 vs I6 debate.

Exactly ... and for more fun, we can have massive arguments over whether a ‘G8E’ should have a limited slip differential ... or not.

What these poll questions never include is a check box that states “yes, I can afford to buy a G8E right now, I have no other obstacles to getting one, and I want one”.

Plenty “talk the talk”, but, when it comes to “do the walk into the dealer”, funnily enough, they disappear. The discussion is about as academic as the occasional thread in the Territory forum about Ford building a V8 Territory.
If Ford was going to slip another engine into the line-up, surely the next one in the queue (after the I4) would be the diesel. GDE anyone?

As for the arguments as to why GM sell more V8 than V6, it will be an interesting topic to return to in 12 months time. My view is that the old puss box V6 and four-speed auto put many buyers off.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Oh god not another potential v8 vs I6 debate.

Originally Posted by Whynot

Exactly ...

So far, this argument hasn't surfaced ...... I think it is a valid discussion as it seems to be the only missing link in the FG line up. Why not discuss it? It has more merit than a discussion on what the next HO should be ....... and it may surprise you that some of us might be in the market ... not all but I am sure there is a few.

Have a look at how many in these forums has just taken delivery of there new GS and a G6ET! There are many buying and at the stage of cinsidering what to buy.



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[Polyal]

Well if the new V8 is slotting into FPV's then it only makes sense that it will find its place into a normal Ford to try and recover the costs. Ford has no excuse as they dont offer the fairlane anymore. I honestly think the only thing holding ford back currently is the bonnet issue.

One that most people here would actually like, but perhaps not suited to the majority. If the G8E fails with the next run (assuming they make it) then I think you can safely say the V8 and Ford will part ways and FPV can fight that war.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by auslandau

So far, this argument hasn't surfaced ...... I think it is a valid discussion as it seems to be the only missing link in the FG line up. Why not discuss it? It has more merit than a discussion on what the next HO should be ....... and it may surprise you that some of us might be in the market ... not all but I am sure there is a few.

Have a look at how many in these forums has just taken delivery of there new GS and a G6ET! There are many buying and at the stage of cinsidering what to buy.

Maybe they should have built 200 special edition G8Es with 302s aswell! Woot woot!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Maybe they should have built 200 special edition G8Es with 302s aswell! Woot woot!

Well that would be WOOT WOOT!



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[ltd]

As someone who has always had ford V8's and who bought a G6E-T last December, I can honestly say that I'd still go the 6T over the V8 any day.
Why? Because it does everything better than any of the 8's I've owned.
It's lighter in the front which makes it more pointy on the twisty bits, it's got a much better torque curve and it's a whole lot more sophisticated and refined than any V8 I've ever owned. Plus, it's at the top of the class without any mods.
It's also got arguably more cred than a V8; Gen Xers tend to roll their eyes when you mention a V8 but respond approvingly when you mention the 6T. I don't know why, but they do.
Would I swap an Aussie built force fed 6 that sits on top of the performance data for something with a seppo donk? No way. Whilst I still love the V8 soundtrack it's just too much to pay for something which will struggle to be on par with something I already own.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Maybe they should have built 200 special edition G8Es with 302s aswell! Woot woot!

That could be on the cards next year to maintain Boss V8 sales before the Coyote V8 replacement arrives. :


Cheers Mick

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by ltd

As someone who has always had ford V8's and who bought a G6E-T last December, I can honestly say that I'd still go the 6T over the V8 any day.
Why? Because it does everything better than any of the 8's I've owned.
It's lighter in the front which makes it more pointy on the twisty bits, it's got a much better torque curve and it's a whole lot more sophisticated and refined than any V8 I've ever owned. Plus, it's at the top of the class without any mods.
It's also got arguably more cred than a V8; Gen Xers tend to roll their eyes when you mention a V8 but respond approvingly when you mention the 6T. I don't know why, but they do.
Would I swap an Aussie built force fed 6 that sits on top of the performance data for something with a seppo donk? No way. Whilst I still love the V8 soundtrack it's just too much to pay for something which will struggle to be on par with something I already own.

Well said. I voted that it will take sales from the Calais V...and i honestly think it will. Alot of people who have bought V8 aussie luxo cars have gone Holden since VE - because it was seen as superior to the BF Fairmont Ghia and then because Ford didn't offer a V8 luxo car any more with FG.

I think Falc'man has made the poll a bit more diffcult in so far as the options....it will probably steal some G6ET sales too, but i don't think it will be all that large. The comment about taking FPV sales might be right too...fact is that the % sales of these cars (FPV, G8E etc.) is so low relatively speaking that Ford is moreso just interested in putting it to market to see what happens. If the coyote fits just as easilly in a G series engine bay as an XR then there is no reason not to offer it. If torque delivery is more linear then aside from some possible auto calibration/DSC settings there is no real reason to change any drivetrain features at all. they don't bother for G6ET vs XR6T so why bother with the V8. If sales are so poor Ford couldn't be bothered even paying for G8E badges any more they can just drop it after FGII is finished its run.

Getting back to LTD's post....i think we need to wait until this engine is put in a falcon and driven to automatically assume the comments about 'inferiority' of the V8 versus I6T. I think the issue of front end weight is going to pass for one....i don't think the coyote weight any more than the I6T iron block. Straight line stonck might still favour the I6T but driveability will be much improved for this V8, as will fuel economy. If it truly comes down to a case of 'style' differences between the two engines (sound/linearity versus speed/tech) with other areas being close to equal then i think the V8 will make a case for itself.

The point raised i.e. the public perception of the V8 is interesting. I alluded to this in another thread where i pointed out (as did some earlier posters) that the massive boost in G6ET sales was to a large degree because of its perception in the market. While guys on here might buy it because it is a truly great engine and takes down Holden's V8 too, fact is most buyers (even buyers of top spec G6ETs) don't really have that intimate knowledge of the car. They just know that it is the top spec falcon, a great package and has a 'turbocharged 6 cylinder). This sounds alot more hip and techy then a V8 large car....which has been done (albeit very well) for years in this country. Its not just GNxers.....old timers i talk to have memories of the slurping fuel use of 70-80s V8 and with the price of petrol a hot topic in the modern era (and the environment) they had sooner not touch the V8 either. Whether that is peer pressure i dont' know. For this reason i think the I6T will always be the higher seller. But if the coyote it as good as many with inside knowledge claim, i can see alot of guys on here for one jumping back to the V8. In a way that makes sense...the true believers will run the 8 for all the reasons we usually hear, but the 'less informed' will find it easier to just run around in the I6T...it sound more hip and is likely to be easier to drive anyway.

Apologies for the long post....

[Bossxr8]

The Coyote will definately fix the issue of front heaviness the current Boss has, as it will be much lighter, and the VCT and higher redline will fix the torque curve issue. It should have a strong torque band.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Coyote will definately fix the issue of front heaviness the current Boss has, as it will be much lighter, and the VCT and higher redline will fix the torque curve issue. It should have a strong torque band.

Ford has always made torquey V8s. Triton 5.4 V8 and 6.8 V10, are the only Ford undersquare large engines I can think of. 302, 351, 429, 460 were all very much oversquare, and particularly 351 and 460 were known to be torquey engines. I think Ford going back to oversquare V8s is a good thing, though I don't know the bore/stroke ratio on the Coyote, I think it will be oversquare - possibly square at worst. I know the 6.2 is oversquare. If anyone here knows these characteristics of the Coyote engine, please yell them out.

[TUF_302]

I dont see how it would matter if it ate into some G6ET sales, its still a Ford, just has a slightly bigger motor, it would help take down the Calais V i think!

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Put me down for the G8E over the G6ET any day of the week

Speed isnt everything but the looks of the G6ET with a V8 donk ticks ALL the boxes for me

Ford, please build me one!

+1 If they released a G8E I would be down at a dealer the next day to put an order in. And I already have a G6ET.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by RAPID XR8

+1 If they released a G8E I would be down at a dealer the next day to put an order in. And I already have a G6ET.

We would trade our 6 Litre Calais V8 in on one, even if it was only powered by a Boss 290..

Another Order here = 3 lol!

[Joe5619]

Personally I think the G series line up should be the same as the XR series line up.. Into 6, Turbo 6 & 8.. i.e. xr6, xr6t, xr8, G6E, G6ET & G8E

Not having a 8 G series is a waste of sales IMO..

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Coyote will definately fix the issue of front heaviness the current Boss has, as it will be much lighter, and the VCT and higher redline will fix the torque curve issue. It should have a strong torque band.

So true. It will be interesting to see the weight difference between the current I6T alloy/iron block and the new all-alloy V8.