SA Premier warns Christmas is Holden deadline

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by boss290

We might not like it, but its their company and their technology. They have every right to choose if they do or do not want to sell it. There is absolutely no place for the government to include themselves in the decision.

Yeah but Ford said all that taxpayer money is a co-investment, so usually investment gives you some kind of ownership.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Iv'e gor news for you all , even if Holden get this they will still shutdown production in 2016 .

Better let south Australian government know your infallible source then.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah but Ford said all that taxpayer money is a co-investment, so usually investment gives you some kind of ownership.

That money is provided by governments to develop particular products with specific undertakings form Ford,
to maintain production until a certain time, and if not fulfilled, the money gets returned.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

That's crap, with all the taxpayer money injected to Ford they should have a responsibility to keep as much people as possible in jobs and keep as much manufacturing as possible going. The government should get involved.

Rumour going around is that they have already sold off the factories and land to Toll to be used as storage facilities. It's possible, they are both massive facilities that could hold a lot of stuff, and located right next to the either ports, rail or main highways.

Originally Posted by Nikked

The I6 was/is used in China market Ford Transit...

Since when. I've never heard that.

Originally Posted by Nikked

Could it be they are waiting for the final falcon before starting shut down procedures?

Nope. They just don't want anyone who wants to leave early to get full entitlements, so it's cheaper for them.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Holden would love to be exporting cars at a lowish profit margin. The problem is, that at the moment, they dont even make a lowish profit on any car made in Australia,( be it sold locally or exported). In order to get a lowish profit for each export, they would need to increase prices, and an increase in price tends to soften sales. There is only a slight "niche" factor about a commodore and none in an Australian cruze, so they can only compete on production scales. Once they go to "world" cars, post commodore, how can they even think of exporting, apart from to New Zealand.

The reality is a lot of the Holden car is imported from the mutha company , at an exorbitant profit so there is a lot of profit in the car pre assembly and thats why golden cars when sold in the states are relatively cheaper , I say no assistance and let them go knowing if they do anything they try to import will be taxed to death , the 500 million will generate a lot of local work when ducted into less demanding production in other industries

[UberKnee]

If the only way that a company can stick around is through massive and continuous handouts there's no point keeping it around. And at this point its just constant demand for money and for workers to take paycuts, where does it end? Global cars are the future, not small countries making their own cars and selling them to a few people while going broke.

[EDManual]

Geelong does have upgrades to the port in its future. Would need a lot of space!

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And while they are at it they should do away with investment properites!

Its a blight on our tax revenue system and I don't like it because

A, I will never own an investment property to gain from it.

B, I don't care if rents go up or investors go broke.

.............

Fixed.

[buggerlugs]

http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226724350492

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226724350492

I wonder how many millions of families will miss out on school allowances for the sake of a few thousand selfish bogans who are incapable of finding new work like literally everyone else does in this day and age.

Throttle the future to beat a dead horse. Sounds typical.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I wonder how many millions of families will miss out on school allowances for the sake of a few thousand selfish bogans who are incapable of finding new work like literally everyone else does in this day and age.

Throttle the future to beat a dead horse. Sounds typical.

you're up early on a Sunday.. shouldn't you be watching cartoons...

[Shonky.]

yep, cause you sure ain't building anything with your hands today.

Can tell from your posts (along with a few others on here) that you have never had anything to do with manufacturing or anything that requires trade skills.

And neither will your kids or their kids, unless they move to China.

It's like some people have done one module at TAFE or Uni on Economics 101, read about benefits of trade and free markets and think they are equipped to decide the future of this country and doom everyone in it to a career nattering away in an office cubicle doing data entry or the like.
I watch my 3 year old play with his cars and putting things together and am sad cause I know due the mentality of narrow minded people like above he won't have a diverse range of job options

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I wonder how many millions of families will miss out on school allowances for the sake of a few thousand selfish bogans who are incapable of finding new work like literally everyone else does in this day and age.

Throttle the future to beat a dead horse. Sounds typical.

Most. Disrespectful. Comment. Ever.

[Shonky.]

And I wasn't going to say anything, cause it's getting off topic, but it's so striking I will.....

On one post you worry about families:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I wonder how many millions of families will miss out on school allowances for the sake of a few thousand selfish bogans who are incapable of finding new work like literally everyone else does in this day and age.

But in another you suggest some kind of radical change is needed to reduce investment in housing:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

And while they are at it they should do away with investment properites!

Its a blight on our tax revenue system and I don't like it because

A, I will never own an investment property to gain from it.

B, I don't care if rents go up or investors go broke.




......Fixed.

So what, when demand for new housing falls off a cliff and families are living in fridge boxes they will be happy to get school allowances???

Let me guess, they will suddenly be able to afford their own house cause of the fall in prices. All of them. Despite the huge fall in GDP caused by your awesome policy of shooting Aggregate Demand in the face.

Seriously, if you wanna wax Economics, you best read a book first, cause it aint actually that simple

But in the meantime lay off hard working blue collars, especailly Ford workers

[ILLaViTaR]

[QUOTE=shonkymofo;4887834]yep, cause you sure ain't building anything with your hands today.

Can tell from your posts (along with a few others on here) that you have never had anything to do with manufacturing or anything that requires trade skills.

And neither will your kids or their kids, unless they move to China.

It's like some people have done one module at TAFE or Uni on Economics 101, read about benefits of trade and free markets and think they are equipped to decide the future of this country and doom everyone in it to a career nattering away in an office cubicle doing data entry or the like.
I watch my 3 year old play with his cars and putting things together and am sad cause I know due the mentality of narrow minded people like above he won't have a diverse range of job options[/QUOTE]

I think it's more due to the fact the local industry is dead?

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

Most. Disrespectful. Comment. Ever.

What about all the public servants you and pottery laugh at as they get thinned and thinned into redundancy, restructure after restructure?

That's not disrespectful cause they dont matter i forgot.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

And I wasn't going to say anything, cause it's getting off topic, but it's so striking I will.....

On one post you worry about families:



But in another you suggest some kind of radical change is needed to reduce investment in housing:




So what, when demand for new housing falls off a cliff and families are living in fridge boxes they will be happy to get school allowances???

Let me guess, they will suddenly be able to afford their own house cause of the fall in prices. All of them. Despite the huge fall in GDP caused by your awesome policy of shooting Aggregate Demand in the face.

Seriously, if you wanna wax Economics, you best read a book first, cause it aint actually that simple

But in the meantime lay off hard working blue collars, especailly Ford workers

I want the demand for new homes to die as does everyone else in my generation so they come down to a reasonable price it's despicable.

You see it's not like how you say at all. As demand drops all the baby boomers collecting home after home at the expense of my generation will eventually be forced to foreclose to the banks from which they've borrowed the money they don't actually have themselves and therefore RELY on tenants/people like me to cover it...

See that means there's no demand for homes and people like you will actually have to sell them to people like me for a reasonable price. And if we don't buy them you guys can't afford to pay back your loan and ruin the economy.

You're not kidding anyone.

[pottery beige]

I can see you really don't have much life experience then illy

[FGII-XR6]

[ flame suit] lets look at this realistically. the current practice of throwing buckets of cash at car makers when the cry poor is unsustainable in the medium to long term. with the size if Australia it will always be hard for car makers to remain competitive.

There may be a place for an assembly plat or 2 but even that is unlikely when competing with countries where wages are dramatically lower.
Is it sad that the car makers are shutting up shop? yes it is. Do I think it makes sound economic sense to throw out tax dollars at an industry that will still ultimately close no.

one area where Australia has shown remarkable strength is niche manufacturing and design. designing making small run specialised technology and machinery. where the large Asian manufacturing process is great for very high production runs , churning out product like sausages very cheaply this process is not viable for small runs .

Australia has been proven to be a smart country with a high level of technical expertise and ingenuity . this is where we need to look for future manufacturing industry not sustaining an industry where we can't compete. [/flame suit]

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I want the demand for new homes to die as does everyone else in my generation so they come down to a reasonable price it's despicable.

You see it's not like how you say at all. As demand drops all the baby boomers collecting home after home at the expense of my generation will eventually be forced to foreclose to the banks from which they've borrowed the money they don't actually have themselves and therefore RELY on tenants/people like me to cover it...

See that means there's no demand for homes and people like you will actually have to sell them to people like me for a reasonable price. And if we don't buy them you guys can't afford to pay back your loan and ruin the economy.

You're not kidding anyone.

Dude your saying that baby boomers own all these investment houses, it's clearly not true. Im 26 and own two investment properties through hard work and most of my mates all under 30 are paying off at least one. I am securing my family's and my future by doing this, what is your basis for saying we shouldnt be doing this?

House ARE affordable, you just have to work hard and sometimes do work you don't want to do. Some people are also happy renting all their lives as that's the life they want, that is perfectly fine too. Just because people strive to have better things and work hard to achieve it doesn't mean it should be taken away from them.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226724350492

i know that article is by dowling, but i didn't think it was too bad. mainly the bottom bit where he goes through why the auto industry in australia is failing.

they are simple facts that everyone should know. we don't protect our industry with tariffs, (or hidden tariffs) and as a result we have the most fragmented market in the world with one of the smallest populations.

no manufacturer sells enough cars of a single model to viably build them locally. toyota prop up their local business due to the high amount of IMPORTS, not EXPORTS!! they lose money on every car shipped offshore.



to me its just a shame that it took one of the 3 locals to announce closure, to really bring it in to the spotlight.

the general public need to be informed of how every other car building nation manages to survive, so they don't think its unusual for the australian govt to financially support the industry.

i wonder how the public would react if we decided to cut back on the amount of models we actually allow in the country? it would be 'woe is me' because not many think of anyone apart from themselves these days.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

House ARE affordable,

umm, no, they aren't. if there was as much mark up on any other product the same as real estate, there would be a mass revolt.

[Romulus]

Let 'em close up.

[Mercury 8]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I want the demand for new homes to die as does everyone else in my generation so they come down to a reasonable price it's despicable.

You see it's not like how you say at all. As demand drops all the baby boomers collecting home after home at the expense of my generation will eventually be forced to foreclose to the banks from which they've borrowed the money they don't actually have themselves and therefore RELY on tenants/people like me to cover it...

See that means there's no demand for homes and people like you will actually have to sell them to people like me for a reasonable price. And if we don't buy them you guys can't afford to pay back your loan and ruin the economy.

You're not kidding anyone.

I want,I want,I want. If you want it so bad you will find a way just like us baby boomers had to without handouts for child care ,maternity leave and first home buyers grants.
You have no idea.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

I want,I want,I want. If you want it so bad you will find a way just like us baby boomers had to without handouts for child care ,maternity leave and first home buyers grants.
You have no idea.

this is getting off topic, but how much did you pay for your first home? and what was the percentage of your income?

for young people looking to move out of home today, it is ridiculously expensive, and i think its a bit rich for previous generations to sit back and critisize.

i bought my first home just over 15years ago for $90k.my income was around half that, no more. wages have not increased at the same rate as real estate, and utilities, so to sit back and tell young kids its easy.....

anyways, thats a whole new topic on its own.

[Mercury 8]

I never said it was easy,what I was alluding to is if you want something get out there and earn it.Anyway this is way off topic so I won't comment again.

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by prydey

this is getting off topic, but how much did you pay for your first home? and what was the percentage of your income?

for young people looking to move out of home today, it is ridiculously expensive, and i think its a bit rich for previous generations to sit back and critisize.

i bought my first home just over 15years ago for $90k.my income was around half that, no more. wages have not increased at the same rate as real estate, and utilities, so to sit back and tell young kids its easy.....

anyways, thats a whole new topic on its own.

Still off topic. As a 26 year old and buying my first house at 22 i accepted that it was more expensive than when my parents were young and buying houses. It just takes hard work and dedication, also a heap of studying the housing market. The house i bought when i was 22 now makes me $14,000 a year now and i haven't paid a cent out of my pocket for it besides the initial deposit. If you research and get a deposit the housing world still has potential to make you sit comfortably in the future.

None of my mates seem to whinge about it either, and a few years ago i was not on a heap of money, just sacrificed things for my future.

It's the way it is, i get on my high horse when people whinge about it all the time because they wont sacrifice some luxuries to make it work for them. My generation wants what their parents have now, and it doesn't work like that.


EDIT: i wont comment again, PM me if you want a discussion.


I think it is totally inevitable that Holden will go under. I would rather it happen now than the government wasting more money investing on more cars that the general Australian public will not buy. The government invested in Holden and Ford to make a car Aussies wanted, and neither Ford or Holden have done that, hence their demise.

[buggerlugs]

As our dear friend Mr Dowling has stated, back in the 70's we really had 3 options, Ford GMH and Chrysler. Now there are 65 models to choose from . Yes 65 !! Makes it very hard to be a car manufacturer in Australia in 2013 and beyond with our population..........

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by prydey

i know that article is by dowling, but i didn't think it was too bad. mainly the bottom bit where he goes through why the auto industry in australia is failing.

they are simple facts that everyone should know. we don't protect our industry with tariffs, (or hidden tariffs) and as a result we have the most fragmented market in the world with one of the smallest populations.

no manufacturer sells enough cars of a single model to viably build them locally. toyota prop up their local business due to the high amount of IMPORTS, not EXPORTS!! they lose money on every car shipped offshore.



to me its just a shame that it took one of the 3 locals to announce closure, to really bring it in to the spotlight.

the general public need to be informed of how every other car building nation manages to survive, so they don't think its unusual for the australian govt to financially support the industry.

i wonder how the public would react if we decided to cut back on the amount of models we actually allow in the country? it would be 'woe is me' because not many think of anyone apart from themselves these days.

There's still a **** load of taxes on all imported cars. Wanting people to pay $50k for a meant to be cheap Korean car just to protect the stuck in the 70s local manufacturers is foolish. We have luxury taxes on every single Audi, BMW, Merc, even the ones that aren't luxury. Even the base model, nothing special family taxi's. We already have import taxes, but alot of the cheap imports are that cheap that they're still cheap with the tax. Australia really dont have it that bad, Commodore still sells high, Falcon did until recently, Toyota sell really well. Australia doesnt have it that bad there are so many manufacturers that dont sell cars here but do in the States its ridiculous.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And while they are at it they should do away with negative gearing!

Its a blight on our tax revenue system and I don't like it because

A, I will never own an investment property to gain from it.

B, I don't care if rents go up or investors go broke.

.............

I'm sure if you lost your job and had to live in a rental, then you might care if rents go up.