Let's jump on trucks yet again

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

The ring roads also full of car drivers with little respect for each other let alone heavy vehicles.

I would have to ask why the hatred toward trucks? Does it have to do with the fact everyone at your work is impatient and unwilling to allow them space because they may slow them up by about 10 seconds over their journey? Have any of them driven one for any period of time to allow them to understand the stresses involved in driving one.

Everyone wants to play race the truck all the bloody time instead of merging behind safely and frankly i get sick of it. For me to get home safely everyday i need a bit of co-operation from everyone on the road and it seems because my vehicle's a bit bigger and slower i don't deserve that.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

if a truck indicates to move over - you give them room. it stands to reason that with trucks being so big and having larger blind spots than cars, then they need co-operation from car drivers to merge safely

I have noticed when a truck overtakes another truck on the highway, as soon as there is enough room for the truck to get back into the left lane, the truck already in the left lane flashes their lights as a signal that it is safe to change.

I gave it a try in the work car on the New England Hwy when a truck passed me. Worked well and he gave me the indicator flick to say thanks. Takes some of the guess work out for the trucks to know when they are clear to change.

If something like this was common courtesy amongst all road uses then perhaps it would make it easier for trucks to change lanes.

[mik]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

and of course there are no car driving lunatics out there.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BIGJB

Next thing I knew there was an almighty bang smashing glass twisting metal and I had gone from 100kph to 0 in under 30meters.

Nothing like that feeling of going 100-0 and going forward in your seat, seatbelt pretensioners ripping you back in and the airbags deploying and you're sitting in the middle of the freeway, deaf from the airbags, adrenaline pumping and thinking wtf?

[KYSBF]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

Very well thought out comment mr smith.
Safe assume that you and your work mates are well educated on driving heavy vehicles?

This would have been a very serious accident regardless of what vehicle had collected the victims car. To me it seems that whenever a heavy vehicle is involved it automatically becomes at fault.
On a side note, I am in Melbourne for a stint of work, coming from country QLD, and the attitude of the majority of drivers here is pathetic, regardless of what they are driving. Speed limits seem to mean nothing and there is absolutely no courtesy shown in traffic.

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

This used to be the done thing back in the 80's. Not anymore, seems rail is too slow for people's "wants" (Veruca Salt Syndrome).

[Elks]

I agree that this is an absolute tradgey.

What is also known from the article the car slowed to 30kph in the RH lane of the busiest free-way in Melbourne.. It is also noted she was talking on a mobile phone on speaker with the phone on her lap.

What's gone wrong, who knows, a mechanical fault? Run out of fuel? Dropped the phone and was rummaging for it? It doesn't matter, it's still sad. I sure the grief of her parents and fiancée is real and they are looking for someone to blame to make sense of the loss.

What matters is that we a seeking to impose further restrictions on another segment of of road users as a reaction. Not a well thought out and researched strategy.

Trucks are large, heavy and quite strong. In an incedent you will become the crumple zone. But in the main the guys driving these are normanl people just doing a job.

mr smith Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

@ Mr Smith.

You Sir are an idiot. As are 99% of the poeple at your work.

I would suggest banning you and your colleagues from buying anything that's been on a truck for week. Think about your statement, then think about how a train is going to access your local Supermarket of service station to make deliveries. 1,000 Hi Ace vans a day??? Just dumb and reactionary. There is no doubt a place in our Government for you.

[Ben73]

More freight off trucks and on rails is a good idea. Might be a bit slower, but you will get many trucks off the road making them less busy. There for safer.
Use rail from say Brisbane to Sydney, then just use a truck to get it from the rail yard to the supermarket.

[jamesson1980]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

Good in theory but how many meat and dairy farms, vegetable gardens, department stores, supermarkets, car yards, car factories, fuel refineries, chemical plants etc etc are located conveniently next to a rail station. Trucks need to fill the gap left by air and rail haulage.. The key is just modifying a few rules and creating a better understanding and respect between all the different road users. I know what it's like to stop a truck with limited warning (albeit only a nursery curtain truck).. we in cars are very agile and manuevreable compared to the biggest trucks, so I have no problem giving them all the space and time they need.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

I'll bet those 99.9% of people don't have the commonsense to push a trolley around a supermarket let alone drive a car on the road. Nothing gives them the right to have an (uneducated) opinion on trucks and their drivers.

[2011G6E]

I'll "jump on trucks" without hesitation. Bugger 'em.

Our here the stupid government cut back rail freight of fuel, cattle, and grain, and now we have 24 hour a day lines of bloody great B double and triples roaring through town along the Capricorn Highway, usually late at night doing 100 through town.
I've been run off the road twice by them...once in the Celica, once on the motorbike...when they somehow manage to magically overcome the speed limiter they are supposedly fitted with and overtake you, only to pull back in when only the first trailer has passed you. Rang Crimestoppers for one instance with details, they said "gotta tell you we get several calls a week like this...but it's your word against his, and nothing even usually happens over it, sorry."

Get them all off the highways, put it all on the rail network, and go back to the days of having local drop off points for freight and smaller trucks delivering good locally.

Failing that, just making the bastards simply adhere to the damn road rules might be a nice start...perhaps compulsory loss of licence absolutely if they are caught speeding, given the massive potential danger this causes to other road users?

I actually saw (no, I did, I'm not making it up...) a triple pulled over at the side of the highway by the police out here a while ago, and then a few days later in the local paper they said, to everyones amazement, that he had been doing "105 in a 100 zone, when a triple trailer road train is limited to 90". Hell, you can follow the things doing 120 out here any time you like...speed limited my bum.

/rant...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I'll "jump on trucks" without hesitation. Bugger 'em.

Our here the stupid government cut back rail freight of fuel, cattle, and grain, and now we have 24 hour a day lines of bloody great B double and triples roaring through town along the Capricorn Highway, usually late at night doing 100 through town.
I've been run off the road twice by them...once in the Celica, once on the motorbike...when they somehow manage to magically overcome the speed limiter they are supposedly fitted with and overtake you, only to pull back in when only the first trailer has passed you. Rang Crimestoppers for one instance with details, they said "gotta tell you we get several calls a week like this...but it's your word against his, and nothing even usually happens over it, sorry."

Get them all off the highways, put it all on the rail network, and go back to the days of having local drop off points for freight and smaller trucks delivering good locally.

Failing that, just making the bastards simply adhere to the damn road rules might be a nice start...perhaps compulsory loss of licence absolutely if they are caught speeding, given the massive potential danger this causes to other road users?

I actually saw (no, I did, I'm not making it up...) a triple pulled over at the side of the highway by the police out here a while ago, and then a few days later in the local paper they said, to everyones amazement, that he had been doing "105 in a 100 zone, when a triple trailer road train is limited to 90". Hell, you can follow the things doing 120 out here any time you like...speed limited my bum.

/rant...

I agree about the trains, sadly we had all the infrastructure but the government took it all out. Not all truck drivers are bad, but alot are pushed by deadlines, we can all thank the likes of Linfox and Toll for how disasterous the transport industry is, undercutting everyone, pushing drivers beyond their limits and not maintaining their gear. Yet the likes of these company's regularly get awards, invites to large government functions and the like, when the only thing they have done for the industry has ruined it and driven it into the ground.

I myself have a truck licence, while I do not drive on a regular basis when I do jump in our Sterling or Kenworth my appreciation for the bs that truck drivers have to go through day in / day out increases. Just like driving trains trucks are heavy big things, that require time to stop and change direction. I only shake my head at how some motorists drive around these things themselves, they think driving a truck is just like driving their car...

[SEZ213]

Okay, I can understand a knee jerk reaction by a family who are clearly mourning. I'm not sure that it solves anything though. As harsh as it is, their daughter/fiancee is also at fault in this instance, as well as (possibly) the truck driver. We know not to talk on our mobile phones - people do it anyway.

I'm as perplexed as the next person as to why she was doing 30 in a 100 zone on the freeway, and why she was talking on the phone (on speaker or otherwise), but for her family to blame a truck, when charges have not been laid...I think perhaps someone needs to talk to this family, as it seems that the distress has caused some irrational thought processes. While it's common practice to blame people when something like this happens, it doesn't help the situation, and nor does it help the healing process.

Originally Posted by Ben73

More freight off trucks and on rails is a good idea. Might be a bit slower, but you will get many trucks off the road making them less busy. There for safer.
Use rail from say Brisbane to Sydney, then just use a truck to get it from the rail yard to the supermarket.

This kind of thing would be fantastic, although in a society where we 'want it yesterday' rail is unfortunately not the best solution to the problem at hand.

This is the way it used to be, rail every 50k's there was a town, well not anymore - the rail was their source of livelihood and well...we as humans put more and more strain on the system, resulting in next day deliveries and overnight freight of mammoth proportion into the cities. The guages on the rail line differ from state to state and therein lies yet another flaw.

Personally, although having worked with truck drivers, I would rather they didn't have to be on the road (my own personal reason). Until this country stops being so demanding - trucks are here to stay...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Okay, I can understand a knee jerk reaction by a family who are clearly mourning. I'm not sure that it solves anything though. As harsh as it is, their daughter/fiancee is also at fault in this instance, as well as (possibly) the truck driver. We know not to talk on our mobile phones - people do it anyway.

I'm as perplexed as the next person as to why she was doing 30 in a 100 zone on the freeway, and why she was talking on the phone (on speaker or otherwise), but for her family to blame a truck, when charges have not been laid...I think perhaps someone needs to talk to this family, as it seems that the distress has caused some irrational thought processes. While it's common practice to blame people when something like this happens, it doesn't help the situation, and nor does it help the healing process.



This kind of thing would be fantastic, although in a society where we 'want it yesterday' rail is unfortunately not the best solution to the problem at hand.

This is the way it used to be, rail every 50k's there was a town, well not anymore - the rail was their source of livelihood and well...we as humans put more and more strain on the system, resulting in next day deliveries and overnight freight of mammoth proportion into the cities. The guages on the rail line differ from state to state and therein lies yet another flaw.

Personally, although having worked with truck drivers, I would rather they didn't have to be on the road (my own personal reason). Until this country stops being so demanding - trucks are here to stay...

Railway doesn't go to the loading zone of my local IGA though.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Railway doesn't go to the loading zone of my local IGA though.

And you prove my point...

[XRtowcar]

As the truckies say, to manouver a 40 tonne vehicle quickly in an uncontrolled incident is difficult to achieve.
Surely this means a reduced speed limit to say 80kmh within a 50 kilometre radius of the city and 100 kmh only on open highway sections with dual lanes.
Also all trucks kept to the far left lanes.
Truckies aren't at fault, the rules they drive by are.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

Most of them are on the road all day doing deliveries and pickups in Melbourne. The interstaters would leave the depot and head straight for the highway out of town. How would rail be of any use?

Next time you or your employer benefits from next day road freight delivery from Adelaide/Sydney to Melbourne - that is because the truck leaves about 6pm and arrives in Melbourne within 12 hours. Freight goes onto that morning's deliveries. Send it by rail and it will take an extra day as there is no way it can be dropped off at the rail yard at 6pm, loaded, moved, unloaded, taken back to depot and sorted for delivery before midday next day.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Railway doesn't go to the loading zone of my local IGA though.

As I said. Short distance truck route from rail yards to IGA.

1 train could carry a weeks worth of a trucks loads.
Slower, but carries much more.

On a smooth run takes our trains about 12 hours to get from Newcastle to Muswellbrook, load coal, then get back to Newcastle and unload.
Sure a truck may be able to it in 5 hours, but how much can a truck hold? 50 Tons?
If they hold 50 ton it would take 148 trucks to move 1 train load.

Just an example. But 1 train is better then 148 trucks on the road.

[b0son]

More rail is certainly a btter way to go for non-urgent interstate freight... we dont utilise it nearly enough.

Still doesnt resolve the need to move freight around within a city. Do we reduce the size of trucks allowed on metro roads? The bigger the truck, the more damage it does to the roads (a car does a fraction of the damage a truck does, let alone a B double). Trade-off is more traffic, but could be worth it once we factor in road repair costs.

Perhaps with carbon taxes and rising fuel prices, truck freight will price itself out of the equation in the future anyway.

[2011G6E]

I'm constantly amused by claims of drivers being "pushed" to "break the law" to meet deadlines.

Sure they are.

And they do know that it's an offence, quite a serious one, for someone...an employer say...to encourage or try to force someone to break the law for you? One logbook or schedule that proved you couldn't possibly do what you were being asked to do without breaking the law, handed to the proper authorities, and there'll be some quite heavy police involvement.
However, a majority of drivers are quite happy to do whatever it takes. My nephew works as a manager at a large truck maintainance dealership, and they get asked at least once a week how to get around speed governors or fiddle tachygraphs and data recorders..."hypothetically" of course. They tell them to go away, but they just know someone else will say yes.

One of the heads of the trucking industry union some years back was on the ABC radio one day talking about a rash of raids that caught drugged up truck drivers and speed abuse in the industry, and wheeled out the usual "pushed to meet deadlines" argument. He got very flustered with the interviewer and said angrily "What would people rather have? A wide awake truck driver who's taken a few pills, or someone half asleep and wandering on the road!?". There was a pause and the interviewer said, incredulously, "Did you just say what I thought you said...?"

I'm certainly hoping that increased energy costs in the future mean that semi trailers aren't profitable enough to run effectively, especially over long distances, and that rail will start to make a comeback.
Australia has always been paradoxically in the odd position of being the very country where you'd think rail, given the long distances we have, would be the natural first choice for freight. However, unlike the USA where rail is the first option and trucks a distant second for transporting good across distances, we have for some reason gone for massive semi's that the roads aren't designed really for.

[wodahs]

slow trucks down push prices up and upset more moterests bout being stuck behind an even sloer truck run rail push prices up and have small runs to stores from rail build more rail hubs (some plases are up to 8 hrs from nearst rail , use left lane only what happens when i need to use a right exit thats on the right lane ?? not aloud in there run smaller trucks fuel station needs 20000lts petrol 20000lts diesle (not unusual) run one truck or price goes up
did you know that every thing at some stage has to go by truck and every thing is the truck drivers fault including a driver in right lane on a 100kpm road droping to 30 and why ??
what is needed is proper (car) driver training with knolage of what is comanly knowen and needed road transport
EDIT : and seeing that acording to the newspaper this happend on the 31 of jan so why did they bring it up now ??

[93EB_SXR6]

I always respect truck drivers (my falcon would be crushed like a tin can if there was a collision with a truck).
I flash my lights when its safe for them to pull back into the left lane - if I'm ever going slow enough to warrant being overtaken by a truck.
At work, we rely on truck drivers to drop off stock on time - therefore I respect that they have an important job.
However...

A friend of mine's dad is a truckie, he has told me *with pride* about cars that he has run off the (not completely sure on the name) "Sturt Highway".
His excuse being "It was 1AM, what were they doing out there anyway? They must've been up to no good!"
I've been told methods of bypassing the speed limiter by truckies, I've been overtaken by a truck going ~120km/h on the way to Murray Bridge.

I see both sides of this argument, but obviously the lady in the car going 30km/h was putting herself into danger.
I have no sympathy for idiots that stop on a freeway (nor for people that stop at the end of entrance ramps because they don't know how to merge properly, so they enter at 20km/h).

How is it that people don't know how to maintain a safe speed/merge.
Trucks are greater in size than cars, if you don't want to be crushed; do everything in your power to avoid it).

/end rant.

[Mechan1k]

Here we go again ... the age-old truck drivers are bad mckay.

Unfortunately there are some bad ones out there ... and Full Noise has shown this from a dash-mounted HD camera in his work B-double in Melbourne. But there's a fair share of poor car drivers out there as well as truck drivers out there.

I see it all the time as well as a part-time courier in Sydney ... and I give the truck drivers a chance as much as I can ... as I dunno how they put up with the "specials" out there on the road. I have a hard enough time in a Falcon ute sometimes.

The ones I have the most issues with are car drivers .... majority of them taxi drivers as well ... but also a lot of idiots out there that either lane-wander or flying through heavy traffic and swerve all over the place as well.

Don't get me wrong ... but I see a few shocking truck drivers out there. but not as many as car drivers.

As for this case ... there were a number of factors that led to this accident ... and it looks like the fault is shared across a couple of parties as well. Which in the end finished with a fatality. Sad i know ... but you can't fairl;y and squarely blame the truck driver (as the media sensationalists do) on this one like they always do.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I'm constantly amused by claims of drivers being "pushed" to "break the law" to meet deadlines.

Sure they are.

And they do know that it's an offence, quite a serious one, for someone...an employer say...to encourage or try to force someone to break the law for you? One logbook or schedule that proved you couldn't possibly do what you were being asked to do without breaking the law, handed to the proper authorities, and there'll be some quite heavy police involvement.
However, a majority of drivers are quite happy to do whatever it takes. My nephew works as a manager at a large truck maintainance dealership, and they get asked at least once a week how to get around speed governors or fiddle tachygraphs and data recorders..."hypothetically" of course. They tell them to go away, but they just know someone else will say yes.

One of the heads of the trucking industry union some years back was on the ABC radio one day talking about a rash of raids that caught drugged up truck drivers and speed abuse in the industry, and wheeled out the usual "pushed to meet deadlines" argument. He got very flustered with the interviewer and said angrily "What would people rather have? A wide awake truck driver who's taken a few pills, or someone half asleep and wandering on the road!?". There was a pause and the interviewer said, incredulously, "Did you just say what I thought you said...?"

I'm certainly hoping that increased energy costs in the future mean that semi trailers aren't profitable enough to run effectively, especially over long distances, and that rail will start to make a comeback.
Australia has always been paradoxically in the odd position of being the very country where you'd think rail, given the long distances we have, would be the natural first choice for freight. However, unlike the USA where rail is the first option and trucks a distant second for transporting good across distances, we have for some reason gone for massive semi's that the roads aren't designed really for.

Would you be prepared to wait extra days for your time sensitive freight?

Are you prepared for food to not be fresh when it hits you in the supermarket in Qld from WA, or Vic from WA and vice versa?

Or will you be the first to complain about all these things?

People become very philosophical when this kind of thing, unfortunately, the idealism with regard to these situations is not very well thought out. Hard to believe that an accident such as this has provoked such poor thought processes.

People suggest that trucks should be replaced by rail, and then complain about the state of the roads. No-one thinks of the costs associated with such a practice, or the jobs that it destroys in the process.

I'm perplexed by this accident, but even more perplexed by the knee jerk responses.

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Don't get me wrong ... but I see a few shocking truck drivers out there. but not as many as car drivers.

Had a funny thing happen the other day at work. Friday arvo, both sides of the road were taken up by parked cars.... On the Western side of the road, all cars were parked illegally (no standing signs).

I kept looking towards the road now and then, waiting for a low loader to come up the road with a 40 tonne excavator or a large dumpy on the back.
Would have scraped about 30 cars..... Never happened, but did it create such a bottle neck. Traffic one way only (at a time).

They were there for a party and with complete disrespect for the road rules.

[wodahs]

oh and i forgot the situation of dropping the trucks to 80kph would also increase the amount of trucks on the road , as there will still be the same amount of freight to deliver but less time to deliver it as your doing 20kph less

[2011G6E]

How about we just require them to stick to the road rules then and not act like bullies using excuses like "well it's up to you to keep out of my way"?

Coupled with this we have proper enforcement...checkpoints to search trucks for drugs and check log books, GPS tracking to ensure they aren't speeding, etc.

They don't own the road, and continually stroking the ego of some drivers by calling them Kings of the Road and saying to them "without trucks Australia stops", has to stop too.
It's up to them to use thier "professional driver skills" to keep us all safe from what they repeatedly tell us are "hard to control and harder to stop" vehicles...

[mntxr]

This a topic that hits hard to me ,it is a very sad story that a young woman has lost here life but at the end of the day no one will ever get the full story with what happened in the accident ,but the first thing to jump to is that it was the trucks fault , my old man has been driving trucks for over 25 years and i have lost count of how man thousands of times he has come home saying i could have nearly killed someone today because they decides to cut in front of him while he is under brakes and people changing lanes infront of his truck , now saying that i have ever since getting my licence have a respect for all truck drivers and every time a i see a truck i think for 5 seconds wait that truck needs more room to brake i will wait to go into lane , worst come to worst i can take the next road , i really think there needs to be more education for new drivers when they get there car licences becasue its simple trucks are bigger so doing stuff is hard and trakes longer than in you little toyota corolla

[wodahs]

[QUOTE=2011G6E]How about we just require them to stick to the road rules then and not act like bullies using excuses like "well it's up to you to keep out of my way"?

Coupled with this we have proper enforcement...checkpoints to search trucks for drugs and check log books, GPS tracking to ensure they aren't speeding, etc.

[QUOTE]
how bout we do all of that to the cars aswell ?? cant be selcetive

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

How about we just require them to stick to the road rules then and not act like bullies using excuses like "well it's up to you to keep out of my way"?

Coupled with this we have proper enforcement...checkpoints to search trucks for drugs and check log books, GPS tracking to ensure they aren't speeding, etc.

They don't own the road, and continually stroking the ego of some drivers by calling them Kings of the Road and saying to them "without trucks Australia stops", has to stop too.
It's up to them to use thier "professional driver skills" to keep us all safe from what they repeatedly tell us are "hard to control and harder to stop" vehicles...

We don't own the roads either, when the rose coloured glasses come off, you may see things in a different light...

It's up to all of us, truck, car, motorbike - not just one specific vehicle.