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Drag Racing Discuss Drag Racing here be it dirt or tarmac. Sponsored by Sydney Dragway. |
View Poll Results: Should Boss 260/290's be allowed billet oil pump gears | |||
Yes, Most definately ! |
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17 | 44.74% |
No, It is classified as opened ! |
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14 | 36.84% |
I dont really care ! |
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7 | 18.42% |
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll |
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#31 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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I will probably replace mine down the track, but will call mine opened if I do.
Once a motors been opened, it's been opened, who's to say what has been done behind closed covers.
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
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#32 | ||
missing the panther
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,464
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mate at the end of the day who really cares.
As Chris will know and l have also changed my oil pump numerous times and have not found a significant difference once put back together. So l think we ourselves will have to be honest when racing our cars unlike the Red team as l have found out that a few guys (The red team)have been saying they are unopened which in actual fact they have been fully opened. So l think you can still call it unopened. |
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#33 | |||
missing the panther
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,464
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Quote:
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#34 | |||
G&D Performance Australia
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 295
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#35 | |||
trying to get a leg over
![]() Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,690
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Quote:
Technically it is ! Maybe there needs to be an independant scruiteneer involved when records are broken, im sure that most people wouldn't mind their vehicles being inspected if reputations and integrity are on the line ! I for sure wouldnt mind my motor checked if i was in a position to break or challenge a record, just to make sure everything is above board.
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Cameron ------------------------------------------------------ |
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#36 | |||
BOSS 5.4L Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,904
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Quote:
Hrrm, not everyone can afford that sort of down time especially when you Boss powers a work car, It's insurance, get your hand off it mate! |
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#37 | |||
missing the panther
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,464
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Quote:
mate have done 2 pumps and mate l use my car to get to work , no car no work so you can get your hand off it. when you have the power come see me when you break 6 cv joints mate. You race you pay. |
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#38 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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A dealer ship replacing tensioners is a bit different to a performance workshop playing around inside a motor and being able to cover over any possible mods.
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
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#39 | |||
AFF.com.au
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,128
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Quote:
My 260 had never had oil pump gears fitted, even after i opened the engine. In actual fact, im fitting them tonight. I broke them at calder when we ran the 11.90, I kept blowing the tyres off, so i did a 1,2,3 7000rpm burnout and smashed the gears. Then it (260) came out and 290 with 4psi Capa blower went on. So at that stage in time, my 260 was completely unopened. There are several other issues here - to remove the oil pump, the timing chains need to be removed. This would be like taking the chain off an ls1 and replacing it - it CAN alter valvetrain events. If people inspect my 260 (its on the engine stand now) I could pass it off as unopened. Its only because ive been up front about the mods, ive been the first to call it opened. heads havent been lifted, cams are standard however their location is not where ford put them. You check clearancing on BOSS gears (the little cam gears) and you will see that the lobe centre can be changed by as much as 3 degrees per side without grinding. This can yield rwkws, and cannot be detected. As ford make these engines with lazy tolerances we are able to "blueprint" this area and dial them up to suit. Hope this helps. |
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#40 | ||
AFF.com.au
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,128
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On another note - no one here has said people cannot replace the gears - by all means, replace them.
But, the motor is then opened. If we dont want the "smoke and mirrors" mentality in the Ford corner, we must be black and white about this guys, sorry. BUT - if the vote goes ahead that oil pump gears are ok for unopened, then im claiming the 11.90 @ 116. Your choice guys, either way i'll be out there racing :eclipsee_ |
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#41 | ||||
BOSS 5.4L Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,904
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Quote:
You were the one making the big statement that i quoted in my 1st post. Quote:
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#42 | |||
G&D Performance Australia
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 295
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Quote:
We are taking our fastest bolt on LS1 out to Calder on friday night for a run,this is the black one though not the red one,bring the scrutineers,the cars all yours.Our $5000 dollar reward still stands for anyone that proves the engine to be anything other than factory stock(except for the allowed valvesprings).Hey we'll even take it out for them. |
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#43 | ||
missing the panther
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,464
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Really you can still call it un opened if a dealership changes them as they would probably make the car go slower as they read out of a book.lol
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#44 | ||
Chairman & Administrator
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 1975
Posts: 107,015
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Call me an idiot but regardless of whether the modification is performance enhancing or not unopened means not opened. There isn't any other definition that makes sense and allows no room for questioning. In any formal motorsport environment all components that make up the entire package are open to scrutiny and this ensures a level playing field. In the less regulated environment we deal in here we can only take the word of the individual as to whether there car is unopened or not. Given the scope available within the Boss engine for other "fine tuning" while they are open I can't see any other definition being viable.
Mine has always run in an unopened condition and returned middling sorts of times against some of the ones we are starting to see now. That's how it goes and I accept the trade off. The next one will almost certainly be opened at some stage early in the life cycle but it will be acknowledged as such regardless of whether the modificatiosn are for durability or performance as both, in the final analysis, have an impact on the ability of the vehicle to continuously perform above factory expectations. Cheers Russ
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Observatio Facta Rotae
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#45 | ||
Slide Baby Slide
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SA - The Drift State
Posts: 2,662
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I'd have to class it as un-opened. If theres no performance gains and is only due to reliabilty, then whats the big deal?
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:the_finge You want more inches...........STROKE IT!!! :the_finge Mr Super Skid-Man |
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#46 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Working, chasing after my daughter and working
Posts: 3,407
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Quote:
There so many that have changed there tensioners/gears already (with no gain), before long there would hardly be anyone thats is realy totally unopened. I tell you now there's no way I or just about anyone for that fact thats wants to (possibly) destroy there motor just for a record maybe give it hell but not destroy it so even though I have been against the valve spring change on ls1's I would have to say it should be ok. |
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#47 | |||
G&D Performance Australia
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 295
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Quote:
I've seen the 3 degree's that you are talking about,it's quite amazing,I'm sure you'd agree.I'd also think that the guys on the Ford assembly line are going to zap those camshaft bolts up in just about any position leaving a variation in cam timing that will vary on many BOSS engines anyway,my Ford contacts also tell me that even the odd engine has been found to have incorrect cam phasing(maybe only one cam?) which have been fixed under warranty. It gets really complex. Glenn |
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#48 | |||
missing the panther
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,464
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Quote:
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#49 | |||
trying to get a leg over
![]() Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,690
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Quote:
Hi Chris, I think Glenn meant the paint came off the camshafts, and ended up going through the oil pump, i believe there are a few reported instances of this happening.
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Cameron ------------------------------------------------------ |
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#50 | |||
AFF.com.au
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,128
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Quote:
We make more changes to the pump housing itself, different relief system and have done this on every opened engine we do. I called my engine "opened" when we played with cam timing because the intention was to build cylinder pressure. we did it, it made power, it ran numbers. Mick (ratter's) car has not even had the plenum lifted. Im also aware of manufacturing inequities with rockers - where do you draw the line?? see, calling them uncracked when they have been cracked will always open up a can of worms. NO matter what they are cracked for. |
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#51 | |||
AFF.com.au
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,128
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Quote:
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#52 | |||
missing the panther
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,464
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Quote:
Why do you have your back up against the wall mate, who said it was your car (do you feel guilty). All l know is that back in the early days of the red teams record breaking runs a certain tuning shop tuned this car and claimed unopened when in fact was opened. So if it's not you guys you have nothing to worry about.... |
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#53 | ||
missing the panther
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,464
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[QUOTE]
Quote: Originally Posted by ORSMXR come see me when you break 6 cv joints mate. posted by FPV8U It's got the power mate don't worry about that, but since when does breaking CV's make you a hero? __________________ Mate doesn't make me a hero mate. Just cost me alot of $$$$$$$$ |
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#54 | |||
BOSS 5.4L Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,904
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Quote:
I have no problem with Bluepower Performance/Chris, but you are not a good representation of him so maybe you should keep quiet and let him do the talking. don't try and talk nicely in an open forum and get up me in a PM! |
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#55 | ||
missing the panther
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,464
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Well mate like l said in the pm G&D are new using the edit so thats were the real power came from, but l am sure they will get the hang of it at some stage.And as of evidence it's at the track.Mate l myself don't have a problem with G&D as l have been down there a few times myself.
And as talking nice in a forum l really can't speak my mind as l may get myself banned. Now back to topic. |
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#56 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,644
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Quote:
People are entitled to their opinions but sometimes it's better to keep them to yourself or be very careful how they are expressed. |
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#57 | ||
.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bundoora
Posts: 7,199
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It's the disappointing banter that goes to and fro which causes rifts, it does no good for anyone. We all have a common want- to see Fords go faster, especially in the V8 department
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#58 | ||
AFF.com.au
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,128
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i think when chris says "red" team, he is referring to red meaning the General, which is not a ford, and thats all that matters.
Orsmxr and FPV8U i would best advise you both keep the tough talk to PM as I dont want to see either of you guys banned, and you are heading down this road. So anyway, im putting my opened 260 back in my ute for some NA action at the LS1's and i dont think i will ever again campaign an UNOPENED deal, because i cannot afford a new pursuit which would be my weapon of choice. AS far as Drag racing is concerned, i am only glad to see cam starting threads here - as we need more focussed ford guys at the strip, without the talk. Numbers talk guys, like Mark said, lets just race. and best you all check out my signature, regardless of what times i have run, its my feelings about the cars and this forum. |
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#59 | ||
trying to get a leg over
![]() Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,690
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Please guys stay on topic.
This is a very important issue that needs to be adressed, the poll results are very interesting thus far. The AFF's are by far the greatest way to get a credible answer to this subject, everyones input has been appreciated, but there is a glaring difference on opinions when it all boils down. I think that since it cant be policed 100 %, we will have to go on peoples word that their cars have billet oil pump gears and no other internal mods to cam timing etc.
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Cameron ------------------------------------------------------ |
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#60 | |||
AFF.com.au
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,128
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Quote:
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