Truth about hybrids, esp Prius

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Pretty stupid argument if you ask me. At the end of the day, hybrid is a good option for city driving. Diesel cars will get better run out on highway driving...

I reckon that I could possibly get better fuel consumption out of the 307 with more city driving than highway driving. In the city, I can keep the rpm down low which means less fuel usage, whereas on the highway at 110km/h, the car is ticking over at 2000rpm in 6th. I've never had the chance to test this out properly though as I live out in the country, so the majority of driving is highway.
As for the comparison between diesel and hybrid, I'm sure the diesel will outshine the Prius on the open road. We generally average 6.5L/100kms and that is with the wife driving who isn't the most economical drivers. I've had the car for an extended period of time and managed to get the consumption down to 5.8L/100kms, but that also included a couple of good squirts when I was running late.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Ford have a Hybrid too remember, they have for quite a few years now, they're just choosing not to sell it in Australia for some obscure reason.

Being an SUV I can understand why they don't bring them here, in the U.S. they rarely leave the road whereas here it wouldn't be long before someone had one half way up the doors in a creek or river. I don't know about you but I really wouldn't want an electric vehicle in that much water.

Actually with the drought it probably wouldn't be an issue at the moment LOL

[Dr_Hoon]

forget the country drivers, sorry. That is a false argument. they can have TDi'd and the like.

your not buying a prius to save money, but to reduce emissions.

[davez104]

The Prius may not be as green as Toyota make it out to be. It also may not make economic sense for most people. But would everyone prefer that car manufacturers waited until the oil was almost gone, then start developing alternatives? The only way these alternatives will ever become a reality is to have them in circulation being used in the real world.

I doubt I would ever buy a Prius, but good on Toyota and the others for working on alternatives. We will all need them one day.

Dave.

[Pete from Port]

Well it would seem a hybrid is best for sitting in a Sydney middle lane parking lot ...certainly better than the 4WD or V8 idling next to it at 7 or 8:1 fuel ratio.... but the boat? now there's the killer.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hoon

your not buying a prius to save money, but to reduce emissions.

As stated in another post, the Prius emits about 100g/km of CO2. The 307 with it's FAP emits 148g/km. Not too much of a reduction is it?

Anyway, the amount of CO2 emitted in to the atmosphere each day by cars is peanuts compared to the ocean.

[burnz]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=gsJjZIuF1lg&NR=1
this is a better link

[tex]

As people have suggested - they are selling due to the populous perception that you're doing your bit for the environment by using one. Propaganda and 'likable' BS if there ever was - thinly diguising the smart marketing machine that is Toyo. Really, Toyota deserve cudos for creating this car early on in the 'save our world' campaign of the late 90's / 00's.

It really matters not that the numbers just don't stack up for this car, or that the environmental ramifications of battery cell manufacture and disposal are so anti 'saving the world' ---> 'cause owners simply don't see, hear, feel or taste this devastation first hand. It happens in another part of the world after all. Head in sand, or rather head up a green ***.

They drive like a, well, very slow thing, they are one of the most pig ugly shapes out there, and they are smack in a price point that can get a motorist into a many nice(r) bits of gear. Most of the TD Euros, driven sensibly will return similar economy, and won't require 260kg of toxic battery pack to be 'recycled', or 'responsibly' disposed of.

The ooooo's and rrrrrr's from fellow tree hugging types at dinner parties - where organic lentel toffu is the main course, is almost defeaning. You own a prius, you're one of the few protectors of nature. What a joke. But it makes 'em feel good. And when you are dropping 40 Gorillas on a car - that is a very valid, and worthwhile outcome. Infact, 'feel good' is a post purchase expectation.

I am happy that more and more people are swept up in the do gooding environmentally aware motorists sect, it will leave more fossil fuel for me. And I need lots. And so do most of you.

The faster we use it, the faster a commercially viable alternative will become available. Hybrids - I don't think this is it. (Although they may be valid for city dwelling types.)

[EgoFG]

I Liked the comparison - the BM behind the Prius. Would like to see a 'real world' test Falc LPG vss Prius (Falcon behind), with say continuous driving Windsor to the city and back from 6am to 8pm on a weekday. Possibly with a total of 160kg payload, and both cars fueling up to full at the same time.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by tex

As people have suggested - they are selling due to the populous perception that you're doing your bit for the environment by using one. Propaganda and 'likable' BS if there ever was - thinly diguising the smart marketing machine that is Toyo. Really, Toyota deserve cudos for creating this car early on in the 'save our world' campaign of the late 90's / 00's.

Yet according to claims in "Who killed the electric car" the Prius was developed in response to the Chevy EV1. Toyota feared it would be left behind by GM's electric car development. Gee, you don't get to say that about GM everyday.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Being an SUV I can understand why they don't bring them here, in the U.S. they rarely leave the road whereas here it wouldn't be long before someone had one half way up the doors in a creek or river. I don't know about you but I really wouldn't want an electric vehicle in that much water.

Actually with the drought it probably wouldn't be an issue at the moment LOL

They have released the Fusion Hybrid (the one with the pot plant dash)recently as well, about 1k more expensive then the Camry Hybrid but up to 6 mpg better ecconomy. However being a US designed model I doubt it will be sold outside of the continental US.

[davez104]

Originally Posted by tex

The faster we use it, the faster a commercially viable alternative will become available. Hybrids - I don't think this is it.

I think this is correct, to a point. But development work needs to be done on whatever is going to replace crude based fuels. At what point do you suggest we start that development if it's not now?

Anyone can stand up and say that a particular energy source is going to be the way of the future, but until it is being used by everyday people in real world situations, the pros and cons will not be evident.

Hybrids might not be, and most likely aren't, the way to go. But unless that avenue is fully explored, nobody will ever know. How many attempts at alternative energy are required before we hit on a suitable one is anybodys guess, but they have to keep working on it.

Dave.

[LOCO XP]

The problem is far greater than mentioned. Saw a doco on SBS a while back regarding the Pious and its effect on a town in Colorado. To paraphrase:\

...There is a cloudy layer hanging in the atmosphere of town, the ranger points out that the clouds aren’t smog, rather it is smug from the self-satisfied garbage the citizens have been spewing into the air and too much smug in the air leads to “global laming.” ... Pious owners are also

[LOCO XP]

The Pious owners are also known to consume their own farts, as such are so absorbed in the good they are doing for the earth through ownership, and thus the "Smug" problem continues.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hoon

your not buying a prius to save money, but to reduce emissions.

Hook, line, sinker.

Either that or you're a troll :P

[burnz]

Originally Posted by arby

Just pulled these from works annual report -
4 cyl hybrid - Prius 4.89 L per 100km (295,348km)
4 cyl petrol - Camry 10.19 L per 100km (133,251km)
6 cyl petrol - Adventura/Rodeo 12.89 L per 100km (418,585km)
6 cyl diesel - kenworth b/double 26.36 L per 100km (7,957km)
6 cyl LPG - Falcons 14.63 L per 100km (696,052km)

Most of the prius kms are from city driving (we have a fleet of around 20)

not bad fuel from the truck

[davez104]

Where the hell did you get kenworth from?? In all the other posts it says 4X4.

Dave.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by davez104

Where the hell did you get kenworth from?? In all the other posts it says 4X4.

Dave.

do you honestly beleive a 6cyl diesel uses that much fuel??? 26/100

[davez104]

Probably not, doesn't mean you can just make up your own figures. I know of 4cyl diesels that run not too far under that at times. Saw a diesel Hilux once that would have blown that figure out of the water, could barely see it in the cloud of diesel smoke while it was at idle.

Dave.

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by tex

As people have suggested - they are selling due to the populous perception that you're doing your bit for the environment by using one. Propaganda and 'likable' BS if there ever was - thinly diguising the smart marketing machine that is Toyo. Really, Toyota deserve cudos for creating this car early on in the 'save our world' campaign of the late 90's / 00's.

It really matters not that the numbers just don't stack up for this car, or that the environmental ramifications of battery cell manufacture and disposal are so anti 'saving the world' ---> 'cause owners simply don't see, hear, feel or taste this devastation first hand. It happens in another part of the world after all. Head in sand, or rather head up a green ***.

They drive like a, well, very slow thing, they are one of the most pig ugly shapes out there, and they are smack in a price point that can get a motorist into a many nice(r) bits of gear. Most of the TD Euros, driven sensibly will return similar economy, and won't require 260kg of toxic battery pack to be 'recycled', or 'responsibly' disposed of.

The ooooo's and rrrrrr's from fellow tree hugging types at dinner parties - where organic lentel toffu is the main course, is almost defeaning. You own a prius, you're one of the few protectors of nature. What a joke. But it makes 'em feel good. And when you are dropping 40 Gorillas on a car - that is a very valid, and worthwhile outcome. Infact, 'feel good' is a post purchase expectation.

I am happy that more and more people are swept up in the do gooding environmentally aware motorists sect, it will leave more fossil fuel for me. And I need lots. And so do most of you.

The faster we use it, the faster a commercially viable alternative will become available. Hybrids - I don't think this is it. (Although they may be valid for city dwelling types.)

Post of the week.

If not, the year.

[LOCO XP]

Tex's statement was right on the money. If anybody hasn't already seen it, if you can stomach South Park, check out the Smug/ Toyhonda Pious episode. A clever and stupid anecdote basically of what Tex said. Probably of more intelligence than comparing a Prius' fuel consumption when driven as hard as it can be driven, to that of an M3 which isn't working hard at all... anyway, it was interesting show, and I love Top Gear, but still, comparing chalk and cheese.

Back to it all, the concept of the Prius is reasonable but the means by which its achieved as an "eco-friendly" commercial offering raises some serious ethical issues as others have stated in terms of the environmental impact of production/disposal etc. In a similar league to asking a vegetarian if they would eat a chicken if it meant that 2 chickens would be saved. Similar but backwards.

"Would you buy an "eco-friendly" car, if it cost $20,000 more than a comparable diesel fueled car, with marginally better economy only some of the time, lower emissions on the odd occasion.... BUT the catch is that it leaves a trail of destruction both to produce and dispose of, that far outweighs any environmental conservation from reduced emissions ..."

[XRQTR]

Well how's the new A3e Audi Sports hatch, just rated the most economical conventional car at a miserly 4.5 litres/100km, it's a Tdi but damm that is good. Direct injection is definitely the way to go and there is so much more that can be extracted from this technology.

[morbo]

The only time ive managed to justify driving a prius is when i had to hire a car. Ive found that the minor increased cost of hiring the thing is outweighed by the fuel savings. That said, i can't justify buying and owning one. $15k premium over a corolla? Bah, i might as well drive a corolla with a trailer full of crap permanently attached, drive it everywhere and I will still be ahead.

Here in London, hybrids are on every corner. The congestion charge exemption that applies to hybrids has promoted an inefficient market for toyota, honda and lexus hybrids. If things remain the same in the future, well heeled Londoners will be snapping up Benz S Class hybrids like hot cakes. Wow, that's certainly going to alleviate city congestion.

Studies say that an average car in urban traffic carries approximately 1.2 people per journey. So if people really want to be serious about minimising their impact to the environment, people should be driving smart fortwo cdis. 3.3 litres per 100 km and 88 g of C02 per km. It also looks like a noddy car and 0-100 kmh time of about 20 seconds.

[ltd]

I saw a movie in the states where a redneck (larry the cable guy or the voice of Mater in the movie Cars) pulls out in his old, beat up, V8 pick up truck whilst his new partner at work offers to drive in her Prius. The redneck calls out, "Get in a real vehicle, what's that run on? Strawberry Douche?"
I've also seen a Simpsons episode where incarcerated and threatened with his life, Homer decides he wants to live longer to see how this whole global warming thing pans out. In a whispering tone he says to Mr Burns "I heard it's all a bunch of crap".

The point I'm raising here is that it seems there is decention about the whole global control, I mean warming debate. Al Gore is starting to cop it too, and the owner of the weather channel is trying to sue him for fraud in the US high court.

Meanwhile at home, you know how many of our current government drive Prius's? (Also why they gave Toyota 30 million for nothing)
And forget LPG as an alternative, they just increased the taxes on it and have reintroduced indexation (Tied to inflation rate) which will hit every 6 months. Soon you will see it on unleaded again too.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by morbo

The only time ive managed to justify driving a prius is when i had to hire a car. Ive found that the minor increased cost of hiring the thing is outweighed by the fuel savings. That said, i can't justify buying and owning one. $15k premium over a corolla? Bah, i might as well drive a corolla with a trailer full of crap permanently attached, drive it everywhere and I will still be ahead.

Here in London, hybrids are on every corner. The congestion charge exemption that applies to hybrids has promoted an inefficient market for toyota, honda and lexus hybrids. If things remain the same in the future, well heeled Londoners will be snapping up Benz S Class hybrids like hot cakes. Wow, that's certainly going to alleviate city congestion.

Studies say that an average car in urban traffic carries approximately 1.2 people per journey. So if people really want to be serious about minimising their impact to the environment, people should be driving smart fortwo cdis. 3.3 litres per 100 km and 88 g of C02 per km. It also looks like a noddy car and 0-100 kmh time of about 20 seconds.

so a land rover discovery, fully car pooled would be cheaper, plus only take one parking spot........maybe the government should tax the one's who dont car pool???

[alter_EGOXR]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I see the only way to solve the oil issue is to drive an LPG Falcon. Space, Pace and Grace!

i second that!!

[pauljh74]

The latest Top Gear episode has the guys driving from Switzerland to Blackpool in England - which is 750 miles. They were all only allowed to do it on 1 tank.
Jeremy drove a Jaguar XJ6 TDVi (2.7 litre twin turbo diesel) - fail in style was his motto
James drove a Subaru legacy diesel (2.0 litre turbo diesel) - large tank equals good range
Richard drove a VW Polo Bluemotion (1.4 litre Turbo diesel) - efficient engine but small tank

Jeremy achieved 5.3 l/100km (53 MPG)
James achieved 4.5 l/100km (63MPG)
Richard achieved 3.5 l/100km (80MPG)
That is "proper" Imperial gallons (4.55 litres) not US gallons (3.78 litres)

They did most of it on motorways and encountered peak hour traffic jams on the M6 in England. Jeremy thought bugger it - "I'm not going to make it so I'll drive faster and use the A/C." He predicted he'd run out somewhere near his home. In the end they ALL made the distance.

Richard pointed out why would you buy a Prius when the VW is 7000 pounds cheaper. In Australia we don't get all the diesel models the Europeans get - diesel is cheaper over there, so a diesel passenger car is more attractive for them.

[Bent8]

Toyota's definitely cashing in on the "save the planet" thinkers here, sure it's very economical (50+mpg) but it's still got an internal combustion motor and the batteries are buggered after 7 years. Plus, by this time the owner will probably have only recouped the initial high cost of buying their Prius!

The small "carbon footprint" the Prius has in it's operational life is most likely completely ruined when it's batteries are due for dispossal!

I wonder what Prius owners think about these recent discoveries...

[Dr_Hoon]

sgt doofey:

As stated in another post, the Prius emits about 100g/km of CO2. The 307 with it's FAP emits 148g/km. Not too much of a reduction is it?

ghia5L:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Hoon
your not buying a prius to save money, but to reduce emissions.

Hook, line, sinker.

Either that or you're a troll

I pointed out that for some people the environment is more important than money. So if they buy the Prius thinking they are saving the environment, then good on them. Various people on here were making a "but it's more expensive" argument, which may be useful for understanding why they don't buy the cars, but it isn't useful for understanding why people do buy them.

The day Ford, or anyone else for that matter, produces an affordable all electric car I can drive for my commute then I'll buy it. I want the low rpm torque. Plus I actually enjoy driving. If I had my way, I would save driving my petrol cars for the weekend instead of ruining them with the sh!tfight of the daily commute.

[burnz]

sorry champ battery's that turn land into dust,and petrol with worse economy are no good sorry

this may be a blue site and i bat for red, but a fart still smell like shyte.