Is The GMC Sierra Denali The Safest Towing Vehicle ? - Page 2

prydey · 19-02-2019, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

But they are family / lifestyle vehicles.

Not in Australia.

Vesper Martini · 19-02-2019, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

A gooseneck for a semi is bigger and heavier than what people pull with Class3-5. This 25’ trailer weighs 3,000kg and carries 8,800kg. Well below the Genie S45’s 7,000kg. https://www.bigtextrailerworld.com/t...axle-gooseneck

If you max out the trailer to 11,800kg, you are well within the max tow weight of the GMC 3500 dually of 16 tonnes.

I noticed those trailers, thing is you can't buy one of those here. everything is over engineered and heavy.
even as a kid I noticed American truck trailers with 2 axles will have 3 here.

Another example the trailer on my imported US/Canadian boat is very flimsy compared to the locally produced.

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I noticed those trailers, thing is you can't buy one of those here. everything is over engineered and heavy.
even as a kid I noticed American truck trailers with 2 axles will have 3 here.

Another example the trailer on my imported US/Canadian boat is very flimsy compared to the locally produced.

Yeah I rememrber in Australia, there’s really small and home-made wooden 6x4 single axle trailers and Class 8 rigs, with not much in between. Some medium duty LCF’s. The stuff in between from PJ Trailers and Big Tex isn’t “flimsy” though, so not sure why you think it is. They have 14” I-beams. Triple or double exist. It just depends on what you NEED. I think you only see what you want to see, and your over generalizing.

http://157.230.165.98/product/lhx-ma...eneck-flatbed/

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Not in Australia.

Well the 1500 isn’t meant to compete with a medium duty truck in any country lol

Vesper Martini · 19-02-2019, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Yeah I rememrber in Australia, there’s really small and home-made wooden 6x4 single axle trailers and Class 8 rigs, with not much in between. Some medium duty LCF’s. The stuff in between from PJ Trailers and Big Tex isn’t “flimsy” though, so not sure why you think it is. They have 14” I-beams. Triple or double exist. It just depends on what you NEED. I think you only see what you want to see, and your over generalizing.

http://157.230.165.98/product/lhx-ma...eneck-flatbed/

Its more about what is available here. with such a small market for large American pickups, there is even less for such trailers.

things are done differently too. when we want a boom lift - we hire one.

PS I notice those trailers have hydraulic brakes, I don't know our ADRs but I'm sure that wouldn't be suitable here

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

PS I notice those trailers have hydraulic brakes, I don't know our ADRs but I'm sure that wouldn't be suitable here

LOL that’s funny. What kind of brakes do you think your car has?

smoo · 19-02-2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Anyone who sells their LC200 for a RAM 1500 is in for a rude shock when they look at the specs like rear axle rating

.

Well, the perception here is that the 1500 class pick ups are 'trucks'.
The 2500 an 3500 would fit that perception.
Bare in mind the 1500s are advertised in the US as light duty - to tow boats, ATVs, bikes & small trailers

I'd be betting, with the exception of LC200 buyers who choose them for off road and touring, the Ram will steal some LC200 sales. Realistically the 1500 Rams will be used for the same purpose as most Double cab Utes and 200 Series type SUVs.

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

things are done differently too. when we want a boom lift - we hire one.

You can’t rent boom lifts in America or buy them in Australia? I’ll be darned.
http://genielift.com.au Why the hell would they offer financing?

https://www.unitedrentals.com/market...-lift-45-4wd#/
$400 to buy? No wonder you can’t rent them in America. 😂

Your claims are ridiculous

chrisandsharon · 19-02-2019, 11:41 AM

The GMC article states up to 13 tons depending on configuration. I am taking a guess here and would say that’s with dual rears running a fifth wheeler and only for the US. I don’t think we’d ever see that here. No company in Oz would even have a fifth wheeler that big I don’t think - most cater to the 3500kg range for the masses. The Silverado running 335kw/1234Nm can legally tow 5310kg (pintle book) whilst still being able to load it’s full payload of 875kg ........ geezuz!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To me these are the best tow vehicles period if one has the disposable income to actually afford one. To then have the actual money to own something that it can tow is big dollars again not forgetting the cost at the bowser. Tests were done here with a 3.1t van behind the Silverado and it was using nearly 19l/100. Load the vehicle up with 6-700kg, a heavier van and it won’t be cheap at the bowser. The neighbour up the road is retired and he runs a Ram with a big caravan, he also owned a business installing elevators/lifts and is loaded - the house alone is spectacular and also has a lift, I don’t think he’d worry about where the cheapest fuel in town is either.
This is where your dmax/Amarok/ranger etc shine, they’re good on fuel, can still tow a decent van, heaps more manoeuvrable, and can fit along any of our bush trails if you wanna leave the van in Cairns and hit Cape York as my oldies did.
They’re awesome vehicles but definitely too pricey for me and rediculously overkill on the grandest but greatest scale. If I win lotto I’ll look at the 3500HD

Vesper Martini · 19-02-2019, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

LOL that’s funny. What kind of brakes do you think your car has?

Car doesn't weigh 8 tonnes.

Ben73 · 19-02-2019, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

You do realise the japs make prime movers capable of towing 30t. Don't think they make b double rate but I'm not sure. Maybe they do. Regardless, I think 350kw and 2000nm will be more than capable of towing 13t.

No idea of how price compares to the silly Yankee thing though. At least it won't break down every other week.

Yet all I ever see is Volvo, Scania, Mercedes, Mack, Kenworth, Cat, Western Star, etc.

Back on topic yes our popular Asian utes can tow 3.5t legally, but if were to tow that much semi regularly I would be looking at something a little bigger and more powerful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Define safest.

Just because it is huge and has a bunch of cameras doesn’t mean squat if the driver is exceeding their capabilities..

If someone is exceeding their capabilities it's probably better they do it in something that is 'safe' and does the job effortlessly rather than something that is 'good enough'

Vesper Martini · 19-02-2019, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

You can’t rent boom lifts in America or buy them in Australia? I’ll be darned.
http://genielift.com.au Why the hell would they offer financing?

Your claims are ridiculous

Getting off topic if the mods want to step in.

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Car doesn't weigh 8 tonnes.

Well electric on hydraulic is an upgrade from just electric brakes. These gooseneck trailers in Australia just have electric brakes.

https://www.mjgcustoms.com.au/gooseneck-trailers
https://www.ironhorseaustralia.com/gooseneck-trailers

Looks like ADRs specify pneumatic brakes above 4500kg. Which is kinda dumb, these trucks and trailers go up and down the Rocky Mountains at 65-75mph every day with minimal driver intervention. These trucks have exhaust brakes and you hardly even need the wheel brakes to control speed.
Anyhow, if that’s all that’s holding you back on this truck and trailer combo, air brakes can be added.

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Getting off topic if the mods want to step in.

Nope we are not off topic, we are talking about the 2020 GMC

You claimed that nobody needs to tow that much weight. I explained many people do, including me, and showed you some examples. Then you claimed those trailers were too “flimsy” and dangerous. I asked how 14” I-beam main rails could be flimsy, and was hoping you would provide some proof. They seem pretty solid to me. Sorry I didn’t realize you were just trying to be right and need the forum mods to intervene.

prydey · 19-02-2019, 12:26 PM

its not apples and apples because you are comparing 2 different countries with 2 different sets of regulations.

Also, they aren't really suited to suburbia here.

and getting back to a previous point, a LC200 (as overrated as they are) isn't considered a 'medium duty truck' here. for many, its a family car that can tow the van on weekends.

the only problem with those American things, apart from their ego stroking size, is the fact that they are derated here to be able to drive them on a car licence, which seriously hobbles them from a legal standpoint.

Vesper Martini · 19-02-2019, 12:32 PM

An Interesting read deals with this exact topic
https://www.performaxint.com.au/owner/towing-guide

You would need to get an Air brake kit fitted to the "Truck" when the trailer exceeds 4500kg

GVM AND LICENSING
In Australia, a car driver licence is limited to driving vehicles up to a maximum GVM of 4495 kg (9900 lb). Beyond this, a different class of licence is required. A vehicle with a GVM under 4495 kg is termed a light vehicle, while those over 4495 kg are termed heavy vehicles.

Many models of truck, for example F-Trucks, Silverado or GMC Sierra Denali, are manufactured to have a GVM rating of 5000 to 7000 kg (11,000 to 15,400 lb) but sold with the option of a GVM of just under 4495 kg so that they can be driven on a car licence. This is called a GVM downgrade.

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

its not apples and apples because you are comparing 2 different countries with 2 different sets of regulations.

Also, they aren't really suited to suburbia here.

and getting back to a previous point, a LC200 (as overrated as they are) isn't considered a 'medium duty truck' here. for many, its a family car that can tow the van on weekends.

the only problem with those American things, apart from their ego stroking size, is the fact that they are derated here to be able to drive them on a car licence, which seriously hobbles them from a legal standpoint.

I think we are all over the place, I wasn’t calling the LC200 a medium duty truck, I was referring to the Japanese cab forwards previously discussed. To your point, the only purpose of the “3/4 ton” category (F250/2500 etc) is to get 350/3500 capability derated to places where licensing is stricter. Where the objective is to tow more, but to pull whatever RV or boat you were going to pull anyway, but with less effort. I think the commercial licensing should be based on trailer size and weight, not the vehicle. As there is very little operational difference between an F150 to an F550.

Vesper Martini · 19-02-2019, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Nope we are not off topic, we are talking about the 2020 GMC

You claimed that nobody needs to tow that much weight. I explained many people do, including me, and showed you some examples. Then you claimed those trailers were too “flimsy” and dangerous. I asked how 14” I-beam main rails could be flimsy, and was hoping you would provide some proof. They seem pretty solid to me. Sorry I didn’t realize you were just trying to be right and need the forum mods to intervene.

If that's how your read my posts, I'm sorry but you've read them wrong.
I'm saying we don't do things that way here, we use heavy trucks to transport heavy loads, and don't need our family vehicle to be cross purpose.

"flimsy" is how I described my own boat trailer compared to locally produced ones. it was just an example

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

If that's how your read my posts, I'm sorry but you've read them wrong.
I'm saying we don't do things that way here, we use heavy trucks to transport heavy loads, and don't need our family vehicle to be cross purpose.

"flimsy" is how I described my own boat trailer compared to locally produced ones. it was just an example

Gotcha. Yeah Americans like a good luxury powerful pickup they can use for work during the week and pull the boat or camper on the weekends.

Vesper Martini · 19-02-2019, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Gotcha. Yeah Americans like a good luxury powerful pickup they can use for work during the week and pull the boat or camper on the weekends.

FFS were not disputing that.

roKWiz · 19-02-2019, 01:56 PM

I think the problem with us Aussie is we don't understand what these vehicles are generally used for in the USA. We flat out refuse there is a commercial market for this size vehicle it not just about pulling a caravan, boat or 5th wheeler.
As chevypower is trying to explain, they fill a gap between the Class 8 heavy truck market (semi) and the dual cab ute segment. As in his case he is talking about pulling machinery about with the uprated version (with a strongly built gooseneck flatbed trailer) on what's currently sold here to pull maybe boats and 5th wheelers.

As one Hotshot reviewer on youtube states, he not impressed with the exhaust brake system on many of these mediums as they have regular hyd brake systems (even with bigger disc) and feels an engine brake system is a better option pulling these kinds of loads.
I know with my own small trucks, exhaust brakes are ok for 4.5T but soon get overwhelmed by weight, hence my original comment on stopping 13T with juice brakes.
I reckon the GMC, Dodge and F Fords would be great with engine and air brakes.
OFF topic..... There is a nice little truck Jap based truck here that ticks all the boxes for me (apart from bl**dy computers in it and that's a JAC, Cummins diesel, heavy manual transmission, Dana axles front and rear, Isuzu cab, airbrakes and all in a 7T GVM package.

Here's a good link explaining how some use these medium duty vehicle for, apart from owners with machinery, recreation and farm use.

https://fr8star.com/info/dev/blog/wh...shot-trucking/

chevypower · 19-02-2019, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

FFS were not disputing that.

FFS I wasn’t saying you were. Stop getting so defensive.

Hemihunter · 19-02-2019, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

FFS I wasn’t saying you were. Stop getting so defensive.

Junkyard-Dog · 19-02-2019, 03:46 PM

Of course it's safe. It's a four-wheeled brick.

roKWiz · 19-02-2019, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Of course it's safe. It's a four-wheeled brick.

6 actually.

mike_nofx · 19-02-2019, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I don't know a lot about 5th wheeler Vans but had a quick look and the biggest I could find was 6 tonnes. where you use an ugly but effective Iveco daily as tow vehicle

Why would you need a vehicle rate for 13 tonnes? to put that in perspective that's a full load of stones on a 6x4 tipper Truck.

Because it’s better to have a vehicle capable of towing 13t and only loading it up with half or less of it’s rated capacity?

If I had to tow 3.5t there’s no way I’d be using any of these Thailand Utes which are rated at 3.5t to tow it.

Junkyard-Dog · 19-02-2019, 04:36 PM

I stand corrected.

roKWiz · 19-02-2019, 04:42 PM

mike_nofx, Me neither, with load tub hanging out behind the rear wheels.

BENT_8 · 19-02-2019, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Because it’s better to have a vehicle capable of towing 13t and only loading it up with half or less of it’s rated capacity?

If I had to tow 3.5t there’s no way I’d be using any of these Thailand Utes which are rated at 3.5t to tow it.

lol, cant believe it took this many posts before someone stated the obvious.

Unfortunately that doesnt suit the narrative some like to follow in order to discredit something they dont appreciate.

I guess its akin to buying a diesel Territory with 2.7t towing capacity to pull a 1T camper when a Falcon is more than capable...you do it because you want to, not because its necessary.
Same applies to these American trucks, not many will be looking to tow 13T caravans but they will easily do a better job of that 3T van than a Ranger/Hilux/Dmax etc.etc. so people will buy them because they want to and because they can.

roKWiz · 19-02-2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

lol, cant believe it took this many posts before someone stated the obvious.

Unfortunately that doesnt suit the narrative some like to follow in order to discredit something they dont appreciate.

I guess its akin to buying a diesel Territory with 2.7t towing capacity to pull a 1T camper when a Falcon is more than capable...you do it because you want to, not because its necessary.
Same applies to these American trucks, not many will be looking to tow 13T caravans but they will easily do a better job of that 3T van than a Ranger/Hilux/Dmax etc.etc. so people will buy them because they want to and because they can.

I want to see this 13T caravan unless its made by Prevost.