Why do people buy Holdens?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Hunter

2) Commodores attract a wider market. Compare the number of bogan clowns doing burnouts in their fuly sik VL/VN/VP/VR/VS (VT is yet to reach the critical mass of bogans to be considered a truly bogan car) to the number of bogan clowns in Falcons doing burnouts. Hardly any. Commodore fans would say this is because Falcons can't do burnouts but we all know that the only reason Commodores do burnouts is because their owners don't bother putting good rubber on them cause they spent all their money on turning their car into a disco on wheels or police defect notices :

Yeah its quite sad really.

I guess you guys are lucky im not a Fulli sik VL driver that does burnouts.

lol @ disco on wheels I guess you mean the VTs with big subs and neons all the way through them?

[WASP]

The answer is one word - consistency. They have a formula that works with the commodore and they stick to that, while Ford through pushing innovation among other things, has been all over the place. McDonald’s sell the most hamburgers world wide but their not the best burgers are they. What you get with McDonalds is consistency- consistently average and that's all the buyer expects for their money. Holden apply the same principles. The most successful selling products aren't always the best, but they meet the buyers expectations.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by CDAA

The answer is one word - consistency. They have a formula that works with the commodore and they stick to that, while Ford through pushing innovation among other things, has been all over the place. McDonald’s sell the most hamburgers world wide but their not the best burgers are they. What you get with McDonalds is consistency- consistently average and that's all the buyer expects for their money. Holden apply the same principles. The most successful selling products aren't always the best, but they meet the buyers expectations.

Thats a great reply. But what if that other hamburger is better, around the same price and actually has more filling. But people still dont buy it as much as the other hamburger?

Has that better hamburger manufacturer got their research wrong? Do they not know the customer?

[flappist]

There is a lot of "normality syndrome" here....

I like Fords, I am normal therefore normal people like Fords
I like performance V8s, I am normal, because Ford dropped V8s normal people dropped Ford..

A few points to those who came is late (under 35)

In 1980 (XD time) a carburetted anti-pollution choked 351 made about 150kw
and used about 30 litres per 100km with engine turned off. People were afraid there would be no more petrol. Tachos were replaced by "econo-gauges".

Sales of V8s was almost non existent as the price of petrol had quadrupled in the previous few years. Holden were also going to drop their V8s but at the last minute renegged due to a lot of petitions from various groups. The dropping of the V8 meant nothing to me.
I have owned 19 falcon based vehicles (FPVs, fairmonts, ghias etc), the ONLY V8 was my GT-P.
Of the 5 Holdens I owned, 3 were V8s (1x307, 2x253), I have never owned a Commodore.

Holden have always promoted themselves as "Australian" whereas Ford were" American" , remember the "Football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden Cars" ads.
The average aussie is fairly patriotic and so therefore was a bit biased toward Holdens.

The first 5 cars I owned were Holdens and I used to pay out on Ford owners as I did on "japcrap" & Valiant owners. It was not until later when I needed to do LOTS of driving (4,500km/week) that I found that Falcons needed less service and were more reliable than Holdens and I have basicly bought them ever since.
My best mate is a "Holden Man" and has always had Holdens, he has test driven a falcon during the selection of his last 3 cars (every 2 years) basicly because of my influence but always buys holdens.

Why do people buy Holdens? Because they want to....
Why do they want to? I don't know, go ask them....
I know why I buy Fords...

[henry 351]

The better hamburger manufacturer may have the research results for what the consumer expects, but the marketing and advertising is wrong and not finding their target consumer. Sounds like an Australian car maker i know...

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by flappist

In 1980 (XD time) a carburetted anti-pollution choked 351 made about 150kw
and used about 30 litres per 100km with engine turned off.

Yeah, I know...............

But I still won't get rid of it!!!!

Heh, my opinion on the Holden buying public is that people are like sheep.
What they see is what they buy.

Holden, Toyota, and other Jap / Korean manufacturers are out there, in the publics' eye. Ford need to lift their game in this respect, and turn things around.

The tide has turned with the BA, Territory etc, but needs to continue.
Myself, I'm hanging out to get a Super Pursuit but that takes $$$$'s.......
Maybe next year!

Ed

[WASP]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Thats a great reply. But what if that other hamburger is better, around the same price and actually has more filling. But people still dont buy it as much as the other hamburger?

Has that better hamburger manufacturer got their research wrong? Do they not know the customer?

What the better hamburger manufacturer doesn't have is consistency in the market place. That takes time to build and generations to influence. Regardless it's not about being better, it's about constantly delivering on your promise.

Ford‘s strategy appeals to me because they are the blue collar innovator and are willing to take a risk at the expense of market share. I both admire and respect those qualities, but can acknowledge from a business point of view that’s this is not the best way to gain mass buyer confidence and market leadership.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by CDAA

What the better hamburger manufacturer doesn't have is consistency in the market place. That takes time to build and generations to influence. Regardless it's not about being better, it's about constantly delivering on your promise.

Ford‘s strategy appeals to me because they are the blue collar innovator and are willing to take a risk at the expense of market share. I both admire and respect those qualities, but can acknowledge from a business point of view that’s this is not the best way to gain mass buyer confidence and market leadership.

I agree, hopefully that strategy wont send them bankrupt :/

I dont have any figures with me, but when was ford out selling holden? What were the qualities of those cars?

[Mattrix]

I think you're talking about Burger King vs McDonalds here! A lot of the time things like this can be traced back in history - often it's the first player in the market to make a claim - I would assume Holden started pushing the "we're aussie" claim before Ford, which means that's what people are going to believe because they said it first. There's always a market "leader" and a market "follower" in terms of the big players (as in, one leads with promotions and claims and positioning, and one follows with a retaliation), and it's not until the market leader does something extra stupid that people's perceptions start to change. People are strange creatures when it comes to choice, they like to feel comfortable and not try anything real different, they like to categorise things (even if they catagorise them completely wrongly), they like conflict, they like to feel that what they are doing or believing is superior to what everyone else is believing or doing.

And to be honest, I'd rather a jap car (even though i'm buying a corvette), i just love the way the japs do things, they build some incredible cars. And it was the jap cars that started to murder ford and holden in the touring cars, and then the "authorities" made it a 2 manufacturer race... i'm going to offend a lot of people here but it's not a friggin race series as much as it's a way of selling cars. I mean, there's some great racers, and i enjoy watching it now and then, so don't get me wrong. but they run nearly identical lookin cars, nearly identical engines, doesn't make much sense to me... but that's my 2 cents, take it or leave it

Oh and don't mind me, I work for a marketing/advertising company.

[Mattrix]

Oh, and Toyota out sold both of them, so what does that say about the aussie market? not saying the camry is a better car, but it poses some interesting questions on the way the aussie mind works...

[XRated]

Originally Posted by CDAA

What the better hamburger manufacturer doesn't have is consistency in the market place. That takes time to build and generations to influence. Regardless it's not about being better, it's about constantly delivering on your promise.

Ford‘s strategy appeals to me because they are the blue collar innovator and are willing to take a risk at the expense of market share. I both admire and respect those qualities, but can acknowledge from a business point of view that’s this is not the best way to gain mass buyer confidence and market leadership.

Indeed, you have hit the nail on the head. Nice analogy.

I think you will also find McDonalds customer service is usually efficient, friendly, consistent, clean etc. Compare this to car dealers - Ford are lacking the right attitude at a lot of dealers (not all).

And unfortunately as someone has pointed out, a lot of the younger generations are falling for the blow-off valve noise, chrome wheels, big stereos, over the top bodykits etc. We should be uniting against ricers!

PS: This tea pot thing is getting stale.

[Pilch]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont have any figures with me, but when was ford out selling holden? What were the qualities of those cars?

from ED-EL the Falcon was strong and on par in sales against the equivalent Commodore. The AU undoubtably hurt Falcon sales, and the EL was struggling late in it's life also. Falcon also did well XR - XE, and kind of okay with the XF. The dropping of the V8 was a factor here. I think the XA or XB made the first major breakthrough in sales for falcon.

If Ford had never dropped the V8 (plus continued to develop it) and also had success with the AU, the sales figures between Falcon and Commodore would be quite different.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by XRated

And unfortunately as someone has pointed out, a lot of the younger generations are falling for the blow-off valve noise, chrome wheels, big stereos, over the top bodykits etc. We should be uniting against ricers!

Yeah we should form the H&FDRBA (Holden & Ford Drivers Ricer Bashing Association) lol.

[Schmee]

Ok guys Im a quiet sort of a bloke on these forums but feel I should have my say on this one...

As far as things go Im a bit behind the times 70's for me, but Im sure the opinion may be noted as valid.

I have driven and owned the HQ/J/X/Z series of cars for yrs never been a fan of the commodores. But when you turn back time and look back to the good ol days and compare the HQ/J/X/Z to the XA/B/C/D for what they are/were I find the GM product superior in most aspects ( no im not Ford bashing) the General came with a removable subframe...easier to repair from a panel shop point of view...rust in the bodies is no where near the issues the blue oval had, suspension seemed to work a lot better stock or modified, interior wise much of a muchness the holden lasted longer inside as the fords front seats seemed to flatten out and go all crappy, the ford did seem to tow better and was deemed a bigger family car. the one tonner was one of holdens best moves they were the all purpose vehicle for the masses of tradies that wanted something with a flat tray without going Jap, as opposed the the fords wellbodied ute that just seemed to rust out.

bringing things back to the current day...I am finding a new respect for Ford in general as they seem to be listening to what the people want rather than just giving them anything. (holden have been listening for years with a wider range of performance based options and keeping the V8)

Ford lost a lot when they canned the big V and I dont think they have quite got the ones they lost back yet. even when the V8 came back how is it that the EB/D/F/L XR6 could outperform the XR8 ????? thats just not right in Australia..... if we wanted rice rockets we'd buy a toyo-bits-a-missin but thats just my view

When ford releaed the ute/tonner it was the best thing they done for yrs as tradies have been crying out for these since the late 80's when all you could buy was crud

but I guess I should answer the question...
Why do people buy Holdens?
history, marketing would be the main 2 for most I beleive, but from what I see the tide is a turning and its great to see some competition back in action.

Ford have kept the reliability stakes alive for years now and seem to be dominating more than ever before...how many commodore taxis do you see nowadays...??? not many, although Toyota seem to be getting in on the act of late

the performance side is on the improve in a big way Ive noticed lately its not that often you see a standard base model holden/ford they all seem to be XR's and SS/HSV's seems people are wanting more bling for their $$$ rather than pracnicality

anyways thats my bit and my choices....If I was out looking at new cars I would definetly be heading for the ford showroom to see whats on offer regardless of the vehicle I was after....

Cheers Kev

and yes to end this I do also own a ford...EB that has given me nothing but greif for the first few yrs I had it...now I dont service it or care for it but it keeps on going go figure

[SSBUB]

The holden influence kind of started young, and you are right, it was deemed as aussie as meat pie. And even now, when we know that little bit more about cars, its hard for a leopard to change its spots.
Whether you find the Ford superioir in comfort, driving etc is all objective. I have driven a few fords and didnt find them on par with holdens in many objectives. But am i biased? probably. Do i drive a ford with a pre-orientated scowl that makes me negetive before giving the ford a chance? probably. Do i know why? Not really. Until the BA/BF range, the Falcon seemed to have the smaller motor all the time (wether they did or not it just seemed as though peformance headlines were coming from the red side) and no aggressive looks. I believe the BA/BF now has the looks, but unless your a turbo fan, the V8 doesnt stack up against holden/chev's gen 3. Is that opinion? yep. but its a popular opinion, and i dont know why.
Hell its Friday, this convo is too psychy for my feeble scon

[Charliewool]

I also think being a Ford man is akin to barracking for Footscray (Western Bulldogs) in the AFL.
I mean you get so acclimatized to dissappointment & losing, you still remain loyal as pie to the cause, even when they are bottom of the ladder year after year! But there is just NO possible way you'd ever contemplate changing your allegiance!!
And a win is seen as a bonus.
However, it also goes in cycles... Doggies are looking the goods at the moment, after years of mediocrity, same as Ford have kicked a huge goal with the BA, BF & Territory after years of, well... "average" product?

[RavenLS1]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

the V8 doesnt stack up against holden/chev's gen 3. Is that opinion?.

i dont know where you get your infomation from?

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by THE_RAVEN

i dont know where you get your infomation from?

Opinion, like everything else

[Polyal]

now now lets keep this civilised, we have done suprising well so for so stick it RED

[RavenLS1]

the holden people like gen3's and ford people like boss motors and ford/holden people appriciate them both.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by VY18s

Yeah its quite sad really.

I guess you guys are lucky im not a Fulli sik VL driver that does burnouts.

lol @ disco on wheels I guess you mean the VTs with big subs and neons all the way through them?

Yep, the same VTs with ludicrous amounts of negative camber on the rear wheels, chromies and chevy badges .

Originally Posted by Schmee

Ford have kept the reliability stakes alive for years now and seem to be dominating more than ever before...how many commodore taxis do you see nowadays...??? not many, although Toyota seem to be getting in on the act of late

I've seen a couple of Commodore taxis, about as many of them as Camry taxis. I've heard from a number of cabbies (incl those who do drive said Commodore/Camry taixs) that neither the Commodore nor the Camry taxi can stand up to the rigours of taxi service. Apparently its not uncommon for the Camry taxis to require things like new heads after 250,000 among other problems. Now whether or not this is the case, Ford obviously attained the 'taxi' status with the Falcon for a reason. People always say to me "oh there's no reason to use a Falcon as a taxi" and I say "well obviously there is a pretty damn good reason otherwise fleets wouldn't use them. They're there to make money and a cab that isn't running costs them a lot of money in servicing and lost revenue", etc...

Originally Posted by Mattrix

And to be honest, I'd rather a jap car (even though i'm buying a corvette), i just love the way the japs do things, they build some incredible cars. And it was the jap cars that started to murder ford and holden in the touring cars, and then the "authorities" made it a 2 manufacturer race... i'm going to offend a lot of people here but it's not a friggin race series as much as it's a way of selling cars. I mean, there's some great racers, and i enjoy watching it now and then, so don't get me wrong. but they run nearly identical lookin cars, nearly identical engines, doesn't make much sense to me... but that's my 2 cents, take it or leave it

Oh and don't mind me, I work for a marketing/advertising company.

I don't understand why people automatically assume that everything made by the Japanese is great stuff and cannot be faulted. This simply isn't the case and assuming that it is would be a mistake. Most Japanese cars are never intended to drive the distances that Australians have to or endure the conditions that are present on Australian roads. A lot of Japanese cars are designed with specific lifespan in mind and most Japanese don't keep their cars terribly long.

I agree with CDAA's point regarding consistency. But my understanding is that Ford has always offered some sort of consistency with the Falcon - they've a reputation as a reliable, tough family car which happily pulls a family of 5 or tows a boat if needed. I think Ford needs to reinforce the image of the Falcon being a strong, tough vehicle. They need to stop lowering themselves to the standards that GMH has lately - have you seen the interiors of late model commodores? Holy crap the interiors are plastic fantastic. And its the cheap plastic kind too. My father's VT interior feels so cheap and tacky - when you corner you can hear all of the plastic interior creaking and moaning. Its like being in an old ship. The newer ones are even worse. Same goes for BAs.

Ford needs to stop skimping on quality on the interiors, innovate (more technically advanced cars!), reinforce the image of quality, drop the old-fart-in-a-bowls-hat-driving-fairlane-at-20km/h image (they can drive Camrys for all I care) and start attracting smart, young people. But that's just my opinion and you know what opinions are like .

[benzor]

Why did I buy a Holden?
Ford REFUSED to fix the problems with my car, they were within tolerance..

Here's a contrast

In 1 month in my BA I did 2000k's, and it was back to Ford 4 times with problems within that time. In this time I asked for my ABS light to be reset (was flickering on and off), why the brakes were squealing/shuddering, why the seatbelt light kept coming on when I was driving, and why sometimes the car would stall after starting it. The response "Those are normal, they'll stop"...after 25,000k's they hadnt and I sold the damn thing. When the tailshaft was vibrating, I was told I'd be billed for it. When ford DROPPED a spanner on my front guard and put a 3 inch scratch in it, I got invoiced $620 for a sublet "panel beating" and had to argue for 2 weeks to get it fixed.

In 1 month in my VZ I've done 5200k's, and it was back to Holden 0 times, except for a service/oil change. While it was there they reset my airbag light (I stuffed it up while changing a battery/cluster and it's been beeping), calibrated my fuel gauge, and adjusted the clutch (didn't ask for it to be done, but they noticed a problem)

After sales service is something Ford need to sort out. And making cars that don't die in the **** in the first place would help too

[EfiJy]

the holdens are more exhilarating drives whereas the fords are more cruisers. i gather most people here have never and will never drive holdens before they decide to upgrade to a falcon? :

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by EfiJy

the holdens are more exhilarating drives whereas the fords are more cruisers. i gather most people here have never and will never drive holdens before they decide to upgrade to a falcon? :

rubbish. I have driven SSs and SV8s and they are no more or less exhilerating to drive than a falcon.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by EfiJy

the holdens are more exhilarating drives whereas the fords are more cruisers. i gather most people here have never and will never drive holdens before they decide to upgrade to a falcon? :

Glad you see it as "upgrading " to a Falcon... :

[Damo]

people buy holdens cause they are crap.

fordz rulez!!!!@1!!11!!!

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Damo

people buy holdens cause they are crap.

fordz rulez!!!!@1!!11!!!

If a Holden fan reversed that statement here, he would be flamed, this is an adult forum is it not ?

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Damo

people buy holdens cause they are crap.

fordz rulez!!!!@1!!11!!!

sometimes I am embarrassed to be a ford fan .... 4:

[Damo]

Haha, I was just joking. I had been trying so hard not to view this thread but I caved. Couldn't help but put a sarcastic childish post in there, someone had too. :

Also I don't think this is entirely an adult forum, there are a lot of young kids on here, but yes best to act in an Adult manner. :P

[ford girl]

When most of my mates argue as to why holdens are "better", they argue 'who won bathurst?'. That has something to do with it.
And its not a strong argument, considering how ford is doing in the overall championship, or were doing, i haven't kept up.