What a let down - Page 2

Quasi · 29-01-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

the SS/HSV Commodore hatch and SRT arent REAL wagons...

Depends on your viewpoint mate, but let's just say....for argument's sake.....I want a Falcon XR Hatch.

Wally · 29-01-2009, 03:21 PM

OK I'll bite 4Vman. You seem to be promoting the term hatch instead of wagon for some reason. On what do you base this correction?

Secondly if there is no market, why were early reports indicating a successful sales figures e.g. here

Thirdly whwre are you getting the figures to indicate buyer trends in foregoing purchasing a VE sedan in favour of the VE Sportswagon for a net neutral gain in commodore sales?

gozza · 29-01-2009, 03:31 PM

Go the R8 wagon thing. They look pretty damn good.

4Vman · 29-01-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

OK I'll bite 4Vman. You seem to be promoting the term hatch instead of wagon for some reason. On what do you base this correction?

Secondly if there is no market, why were early reports indicating a successful sales figures e.g. here

Thirdly whwre are you getting the figures to indicate buyer trends in foregoing purchasing a VE sedan in favour of the VE Sportswagon for a net neutral gain in commodore sales?

For every commodore hatch that holden sell they sell 1 less sedan...... their overall sales figures have remained the same since the hatch was released.
The Hatch sales are included in with the sedan sales, even the statisticians just see it as a sedan variant.
For all the R+D and design effort they've achieved no net gain in sales...

Sales result? Neutral....

**Falcon Coupe** · 29-01-2009, 03:38 PM

I don't see why an XR6 wagon shouldn't be in the lineup, a body kit (existing front from BF2 XR), ZF6 speed, slightly lower and a set of wheels would do the trick.

Wally · 29-01-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

For every commodore hatch that holden sell they sell 1 less sedan...... their overall sales figures have remained the same since the hatch was released.
The Hatch sales are included in with the sedan sales, even the statisticians just see it as a sedan variant.
For all the R+D and design effort they've achieved no net gain in sales...

Sales result? Neutral....

What, no supporting detail to the queries?

A wagon BTW has the tailgate down to the bumper exposing the tray, while a hatch generally doesn't, a wagon has an extended sedan roofline, while a hatch generally hinges at the C pillar. At the end of the day is is called whatever the manufacturer wants it to be called; wagon, liftback, hatchback whatever.

I'd like to see those statistics please.

4Vman · 29-01-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

What, no supporting detail to the queries?

A wagon BTW has the tailgate down to the bumper exposing the tray, while a hatch generally doesn't, a wagon has an extended sedan roofline, while a hatch generally hinges at the C pillar. At the end of the day is is called whatever the manufacturer wants it to be called; wagon, liftback, hatchback whatever.

I'd like to see those statistics please.

Do some searching yourself, you'll find them.
The commodore hatch sales results have been discussed often, its pretty common knowledge that there's been no incremental sales gains for holden, and its just shifted sales from the sedan to the hatch...

Jondalar · 29-01-2009, 03:50 PM

I kind of agree with 4Vman, the even Holden don't call it a wagon, they call it Sportwagon (at least in the Commodore range). But it is way more appealing than a BF Mk III wagon that looks AU from behind.

I got a quote on TTG lease and it was horrendously expensive compared to G6ET that I ended up with.

I wouldn't touch the Liberty wagon, you'd fit more in the boot of a Falcon than in the back of those, same goes with BMW 3 series Touring. Plus having owned a Subaru Outback 3.0R I can tell you they have the worlds worst Auto tranny, plus the motor is all top end, no torque despite the sales blurb about boxers and superior torque.

Mazda 6 is a great looking wagon, but of course it's only 4 cylinder. Mondeo XR5 Turbo hatch maybe? Fit as much in one of those as most wagons.

FPV8U · 29-01-2009, 03:51 PM

SSV or HSV R8 Wagon or the SRT-8 Wagon.. the TTG and F6X are nice but as has been said they arn't wagens they are SUV's.

If you want something that will handle asgood as a SS sedan or XR8 sedan those are the Wagons to choose from.

mcnews · 29-01-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

For every commodore hatch that holden sell they sell 1 less sedan...... their overall sales figures have remained the same since the hatch was released.
The Hatch sales are included in with the sedan sales, even the statisticians just see it as a sedan variant.
For all the R+D and design effort they've achieved no net gain in sales...

Sales result? Neutral....

Maybe, but at the end of the day it is a Holden that I would consider when I really wouldn'ty be in the market for a Holden sedan...

mcnews · 29-01-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jondalar

I got a quote on TTG lease and it was horrendously expensive compared to G6ET that I ended up with.

That would be to cater for the horrendous fuel bill...

Wally · 29-01-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Do some searching yourself, you'll find them.
The commodore hatch sales results have been discussed often, its pretty common knowledge that there's been no incremental sales gains for holden, and its just shifted sales from the sedan to the hatch...

I should have known better than to ask for the phantom facts, that are supposedly "common knowledge" to all but me, so I'll drop it.

4Vman · 29-01-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I should have known better than to ask for the phantom facts, that are supposedly "common knowledge" to all but me, so I'll drop it.

Right on champ! stop being a wally and go look for yourself...
Or just take those holden blinkers off and you might see them..

irlewy86 · 29-01-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasi

Yeah, I know, and I've not given up on the F6X as yet (it's the only Territory option that interests me), but doesn't change the fact that there is no Falcon wagon option.

It's not imperative that I get a wagon, just more practical to double as work & play. The world wouldn't stp revolving if I bought an XR8 (optioned up), or a GT. The point of my original post is that there is no sports/performance option in a FALCON wagon.....just the XT taxi pack 4.0L.

HSV, SRT8, or F6X.....options are there, just would have been simpler to at least take a look at an XR wagon and throw a couple of options at it :togo:

I'm having trouble seeing your problem Quasi. The Falcon wagon is largely dead thanks to the Territory, dynamically it goes pound for pound with the VE and comes up trumps in many areas. In the company of Euro SUV's it makes a mockery of some much higher priced offerings (a few niggly problems aside)

What is the reason behind needing a wagon over a tall wagon? Height restrictions? The look? Dislike of the higher ride?

Wally · 29-01-2009, 04:34 PM

Is this "hatch" available yet?

here

Jondalar · 29-01-2009, 04:44 PM

C'mon Wally there's already a Mondeo Hatch, that would make that a super hatch? I prefer the term wagon ;)

seduced_xr · 29-01-2009, 04:46 PM

well ive driven an XT, have an XR and last week drove a SY territory Ghia for the first time and wow, what a car. it handles just like my xr6 except its a bit higher and can fit all your crap in the back, the sound system still sucks but thats just ford not the territory itself brakes were good accelerator had great response as does the XR6, i would imaging the XT sedan drives not to much different to the wagon but if you asked me wheter i would take the XT or the Territory i would have to be mad to pass on the T.

cheers

Wally · 29-01-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jondalar

C'mon Wally there's already a Mondeo Hatch, that would make that a super hatch? I prefer the term wagon ;)

Damnit the goal posts keep moving :voldar02:

**fordomatic** · 29-01-2009, 06:23 PM

im going to cop flaming for this but i wil say it anyway
how many of you have driven the territory and hsv wagon back to back?
the hsv wagon has to be one of the best cars for its weight and length i have ever driven. it just feels so balanced for a bigger car.
the terriyory feels like it floats to me and feels underpowered compared to the hsv, which is around the same price.

**TUF_302** · 29-01-2009, 06:27 PM

I say drive the F6X, the Sportswagon, and a SRT8 and see which you like the best!

4Vman · 29-01-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

im going to cop flaming for this but i wil say it anyway
how many of you have driven the territory and hsv wagon back to back?
the hsv wagon has to be one of the best cars for its weight and length i have ever driven. it just feels so balanced for a bigger car.
.

That's because its a sedan with a hatch rear!!!!!
Its not a bigger car or a wagon!! There's no practical physical difference between the VE sedan and hatch..

Traditional Falcon and Commodore wagons were built on a long wheelbase platform, the VE uses the sedan.
In all honesty there hatch could easily replace the sedan in most of holden's line up.

flappist · 29-01-2009, 08:49 PM

You do realise that at 190kw (255HP) the BA3 is the most powerful wagon Ford have ever sold.

**fordomatic** · 29-01-2009, 09:15 PM

just 127kw short

4Vman · 29-01-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

just 127kw short

and $50K cheaper.....

atec77 · 29-01-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasi

There is something I need to get off my chest.

At the moment I'm waiting on word about a change in my work situation which has presented me the opportunity to have a brand new vehicle in my garage. This will be a leased car that is my choice of pretty much anything I choose (I pay the lease and the company pays all running costs).

I've looked at several options really. I started out looking at an XR8 or XR6T, but after more thought I felt, due to the nature of the job, that a wagon would be the best of both worlds, and that is where the problem started.

There is no option to buy any kind of a sports, or performance, station wagon from Ford. I want at least an XR6T style vehicle, but preferably a V8.

Chrysler has the 300C in both 250kw and the SRT8 317Kw versions, but although I'm a Mopar man from way back it isn't the most desirable car on the road (I don't mind it, but not really in the race).

Despite the 'Ego' GT I was captivated by, I was looking at a Territory F6X, but after a few days decided it isn't what I particularly was suited to as I'm not an off-roader.

This pretty much leaves me with one option....you guessed it, go to the dark side. I've resisted the curiousity thing, until today, when I found myself standing in a cold sweat, feeling quite out-of-sorts, in the middle of a HSV showroom beside a 317Kw HSV R8 Tourer. What a great looking car.

On top of that there is the SS & SS-V 270Kw sportswagon, for the price of an XR sedan.

The point of this post, you may ask?

What the hell is wrong with Ford Australia?

I want an XR8 Falcon wagon for crying out loud, and the only station wagon they offer is a taxi pack 4.0L six

Somebody over there has lost the plot,and I'm not happy. In order to stay in a Ford I have to stick with a sedan (not the best suited vehicle for the job), or get a territory (Not what I'm looking for anyway).

I will NEVER stop being a staunch DJR fan, as has been the case since he punted an XC coupe around the mountain, and it is inconceivable that I have any interest whatsover in any of the Holden race teams, but am facing the real prospect of shelling out plenty of hard earned cash on a product from the opposition, purely because they supply a product that makes sense.

The reason I'm looking for something like this is because this means I will have to part with my beloved '92 FTE Ghia, as I have not enough room for three cars.

I'm not happy.

Go the v8 Sports wagon , we did after discovering a decent ford wagon was unavailable
go on
you can do eettttt

flappist · 29-01-2009, 09:36 PM

Ford buyers seem to be very conservative. A GT sedan with stripes, XR8 and XR6T/F6 sedan sells/sold well. Everything else (high end) seems to either sell very slowly or not at all.

e.g. Force 6, Force 8, Turbo Terry, F6X, LTD, Fairlane, 3V V8 anything really, TL50, F6 Rspec, GT-E, Tornado, Pursuit (not SP).........

Setting up a V8 or T6 wagon seems to be a lot of engineering with probably no return.

Holden bogans, I mean buyers, appear to be far more flexible and regularly buy all sorts of strange things

Windsor220 · 29-01-2009, 09:46 PM

I dont understand people coming here and whinging about it. Ford arent going to build a V8 wagon because they wont gain anything from it. Just buy the Commo if thats what you want to do.

4Vman · 29-01-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Ford buyers seem to be very conservative. A GT sedan with stripes, XR8 and XR6T/F6 sedan sells/sold well. Everything else (high end) seems to either sell very slowly or not at all.

e.g. Force 6, Force 8, Turbo Terry, F6X, LTD, Fairlane, 3V V8 anything really, TL50, F6 Rspec, GT-E, Tornado, Pursuit (not SP).........

Setting up a V8 or T6 wagon seems to be a lot of engineering with probably no return.

Holden bogans, I mean buyers, appear to be far more flexible and regularly buy all sorts of strange things

Very true, Ford make some excellent cars at the high end, some people seem to ignore them, F6X and GT-E are perfect examples.
Yes, holden bogans will buy any morphed incarnation of a commodore regardless of practicality or taste... and there's been some abominations too... XUV, Coupe 4, commodore Hatch etc.
Got to love tribalised blind badge loyalty.!

Quasi · 29-01-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Got to love tribalised blind badge loyalty.!

you mean like someone feeling put out because they want to stick to buying a Ford, but can't get what they're after...yeah, bloody Holden bogans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torxteer

Just buy the Commo if thats what you want to do.

I didn't put up the thread to try and get justification to buy a HSV, or SS, and if you didn't get that you shouldn't have posted.

steamin63 · 29-01-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes, holden bogans will buy any morphed incarnation of a commodore regardless of practicality or taste... and there's been some abominations too... XUV, Coupe 4, commodore Hatch etc.
Got to love tribalised blind badge loyalty.!

and if ford brought out a station wagon tomorrow you would jump up on your soap box and tell us mere mortals what a great marketing strategy it was.