Chinese Ute already recalled...

[V8 Man]

You get what you pay for. These Chinese vehicles don't look as good, perform as well, have as many features as, and probably won't last as well as, vehicles from other parts of the world. However, the don't cost anywhere near as much either. For the 90% of the population who view motor vehicles as an appliance, value for money is what counts at the end of the day. This fact will ensure the ongoing survival and continuing growth of market share for these vehicles. I won't buy one, and you may not either, but lots of people will.

[GTP-03]

One thing that will prob hinder them is there name "Great Wall", becuase you instantly think of China, unlike say a Barina where you think of Holden as an Aussie car.

I know this is off the topic slightly but this is where Ford should push the Aussie designed and made gravy train and let people know that cars like the Territory and the Falcon are designed and made here in Australia and hint that the Captiva is a Korean car, they have such a great oppurtunity to do this, but they dont and wont do it, come on Ford, you done it for the fuel economy issue, push the Aussie angle for the Falcon and Territory!!

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Data in turn provides knowledge. And over time, once designs become more pleasing to the eye, once safety becomes more important over low prices and if prices remain comparatively low this combination will EARN them favour.

Do your brand research before trying to appear smart. If you looked into the DATA, you would have increased your KNOWLEDGE on the matter and found that from 2006-2009:

Ford had 23 recalls,
Hyundai had 6 recalls
and Kia had 3.

This is a gross miss representation of the truth if I ever saw one, Did you not take into consideration that Ford has a lot more models than the other two if you take into consideration that for one ford model there would be 2 or 3 derivatives. In other words you might have one fault in a Kia, because it's common across the model it's only one fault, but if Ford have a fault then it will be seen in one type then because another has a v8 or a different badge it will be considered a different car.

[Mick K.]

How many drivers of these Chinese utes will actually choose to drive them? Won't the majority of the drivers be employees of cheap a$$ed companies who can get 2 GWs for the price of 1 Hilux? Young apprentice or employee with kids worried about job security will drive these because they have to as part of their jobs. An accountant or fleet manager who will never drive one of these, but just looks at the bottom line will be the one who actually buys these.

It really should be the role of the relevant state / territory or federal transport departments to legislate on minimum safely standards to stop vehicles like this from getting on Australian roads. Sure, there will be some older cars and trucks on the roads now that are equally as unsafe or worse, but they should really draw the line somewhere.

MK

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Mick K.

How many drivers of these Chinese utes will actually choose to drive them? Won't the majority of the drivers be employees of cheap a$$ed companies who can get 2 GWs for the price of 1 Hilux? Young apprentice or employee with kids worried about job security will drive these because they have to as part of their jobs. An accountant or fleet manager who will never drive one of these, but just looks at the bottom line will be the one who actually buys these.

It really should be the role of the relevant state / territory or federal transport departments to legislate on minimum safely standards to stop vehicles like this from getting on Australian roads. Sure, there will be some older cars and trucks on the roads now that are equally as unsafe or worse, but they should really draw the line somewhere.

MK

The federal g'ment does legislate on minimum safety standards .... ANCAP is a measure of safety after the other minimums have been met. Having 2 stars doesn't mean it will burst into flames after 2 months. I am sure there would be plenty of apprentices that would love to drive a ute with leather and air conditioning ..... compared to a 1985 buzz box?

There have been quite a few cars that would fall into the 2 star rating and below, especially if your car is over 10 years old. How many 18 year olds drove a 2006 Barina as there first car?



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[Franco Cozzo]

The WF Festiva that my mum has is only rated at two stars I'm pretty sure.

[Bossxr8]

The cost savings are just not worth it in the long run, you will either be dead if you crash one or the thing will be a throwaway within a couple of years because they are so poorly built with the cheapest, most garbage parts that will do the job until the warranty expires.

These cars will be throwaway items just like some electrical appliances have become, they will not do 300,000 k's on the worst australia's road have to offer and keep on ticking like a Falcon would.

Long term durability would be zero.

[Ohio XB]

If you bought a packet of Smiths chips from a vending machine and found a crinkle cut finger in the packet would you be calling the owner of the machine or Smiths chips direct?

I would go with Smith's Chips, assuming they produce their own product?

What rubbish. Vendors sell a car, manufacturers build them.

..but not all the parts. Not even many of them.

In case we have a misunderstanding, here in the US "vendors" refer to the companies that build the parts for the auto manufacturers.




Ford builds cars, but not all the parts, not even many. They specify what the part must meet in many ways, and also design many of the parts, but the vendors have the decision in how to meet those requirements. Vendors are looking to make a buck as well and Ford's requirement that the vendor constantly reduce the price of the component, after coming in with the lowest bid, sometimes causes vendors to violate the quality price. Quality has a certain price that cannot be under-paid.

Many people think that the Ford dealer is Ford, not just a privately owned, franchised business. Whatever the dealer does is taken as Ford performing these actions, when Ford may know nothing about it because the dealer is a private business.




While I was a Tooling Layout Inspector at Ford performing layouts on hundreds of auto components to assure compliance to print, 3D CAD models, and engineering standards, I found many issues where there was just a lack of quality control, an unauthorized change made by the vendor, and other defects that just may have happened in transit. Ford does the best they can to catch all these things, even when the vendors are required to meet certain quality standards or even certify that their parts are good, when they in fact are not.

I am not bashing all vendors. There are always bad apples in any bunch, and also humans are not perfect. I am just saying that there are defects that are caused by design flaws and there are defects caused by some vendors taking short cuts. I feel that the Chinese brand's defects are caused more by design flaws of the car company. I am sure they have their fair share of vendor defects as well, complicating an already bad situation.




I also have to question, since I have no idea, how many Fords were sold in those years (2006 - 2009) compared to Hyundai and Kia?


Was the Ford brake and steering recalls due to a design flaw or a defectively supplied part? We know at our plant whenever there is a service bulletin or a recall due to a defectively supplied part that Ford is going to be viewed as the one that committed the infraction, when they merely bolted on a part that the manufacturer verified was good.


Steve

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

In case we have a misunderstanding, here in the US "vendors" refer to the companies that build the parts for the auto manufacturers.

Well, down here a vendor is a person or company who sells a good or service.

Ford dealerships are vendors, they sell a car on behalf of the manufacturer, being Ford. This is why I wasn't quite sure what you meant when you said some of those recalls could have been caused by a "vendor defect".

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Ford builds cars, but not all the parts, not even many. They specify what the part must meet in many ways, and also design many of the parts, but the vendors have the decision in how to meet those requirements. Vendors are looking to make a buck as well and Ford's requirement that the vendor constantly reduce the price of the component, after coming in with the lowest bid, sometimes causes vendors to violate the quality price. Quality has a certain price that cannot be under-paid.

Yes, but a recall is not totally based on quality alone. Ferrari, Maserati, Bently, Lotus all have had recalls in the past few years and these are far from the cheep and cheerful likes of Great Wall motors.

Humans make mistakes. Anything built with human intervention can and will go wrong. From a billion dollar space shuttle exploding after take off, to an under tightened screw holding up the picture frame that just fell. It is in our nature to be like this. Trial and error. This is why I got narky regarding the comments.

There was a line of people ready to put down, make fun of and jeer a new car company for their first recall. Something Ford has had dozens of. This is the point I was getting at.

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I also have to question, since I have no idea, how many Fords were sold in those years (2006 - 2009) compared to Hyundai and Kia?

here’s the current top 15 by marque and their performance year-to-date against the first half of 2008.
1. Toyota: 94,233 first-half sales, down▼ 26.1 percent YTD
2. Holden: 56,152 first-half sales, ▼ 16.3 percent YTD
3. Ford: 46,456 first-half sales, ▼ 14.7 percent YTD
4. Mazda: 38,603 first-half sales, ▼ 9.2 percent YTD
5. Hyundai: 29,935 first-half sales, up▲ 22.6 percent YTD
6. Mitsubishi: 27,063 first-half sales, ▼ 23.0 percent YTD
7. Nissan: 26,954 first-half sales, ▼ 12.5 percent YTD
8. Honda: 22,350 first-half sales, ▼ 25.9 percent YTD
9. Subaru: 19,009 first-half sales, ▼ 8.6 percent YTD
10. Volkswagen: 15,934 first-half sales, ▼ 2.9 percent YTD
11. Suzuki: 10,012 first-half sales, ▼ 17.5 percent YTD
12. Kia: 9,938 first-half sales, ▼ 10.2 percent YTD
13. Mercedes-Benz: 9,398 first-half sales, ▼ 6.5 percent YTD
14. BMW: 8,021 first-half sales, ▼ 14.0 percent YTD
15. Audi: 5,611 first-half sales, ▲ 10.0 percent YTD

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/365...to-date-sales/

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Was the Ford brake and steering recalls due to a design flaw or a defectively supplied part? We know at our plant whenever there is a service bulletin or a recall due to a defectively supplied part that Ford is going to be viewed as the one that committed the infraction, when they merely bolted on a part that the manufacturer verified was good.

When Ford sells a car, that car represents Ford. If a part goes wrong, you return it to Ford. Fitting defective parts to a car from a 3rd party means that either their expectations and tolerances are not up to standard (unlikely) or their Quality Control isn't up to scratch.

On a side note.... I'm actually very very surprised that there is only 1 recall for GW motors so far. When a Chinese company thats already global or trying to go global shows China in a negative way (by mistake or by fraud) the heads of the company roll... literally....

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by auslandau

The federal g'ment does legislate on minimum safety standards .... ANCAP is a measure of safety after the other minimums have been met. Having 2 stars doesn't mean it will burst into flames after 2 months. I am sure there would be plenty of apprentices that would love to drive a ute with leather and air conditioning ..... compared to a 1985 buzz box?

There have been quite a few cars that would fall into the 2 star rating and below, especially if your car is over 10 years old. How many 18 year olds drove a 2006 Barina as there first car?

I'd suggest the 2005/6 Mazda Bravo 4000 4dr ute, base model (No ABS or airbags) would achieve 1 mebbe 2 stars. (Courier by another name).

They will sell because they are cheap, and are certainly put together better than the old Russie Lada's ever were:-) GW are leather too, std.

The V240 ute and 220 ute, and new 4WD (SUV) have a Euro/UN triangle. 240 and SUV have twin rear fogs (and front).

Its a start I guess. GW I think bring out a sedan sometime for AUS.

Feature wise, so have the new Mahindra's which are agricultural, but 'solid'.

[ChemicalHorizon]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

I cant wait to see them in 4 - 5 years time... Remember the TATA utes.. They were literally tata after a few years!

Btw this things based on the old model Rodeo... same sheet metal and all so it started off life pretty bad in the first place!! :P

Just remember, bits of the australian boss v8 are made by Tata in India along with millions of other things which are made by the MEGA company.

[ZC001]

Safety Recall - possibly the only way you will ever get spare parts for your chinese car ....

Ford & Holden have changed so many parts suppliers from Australia to China over recent years that they could well be buying seat belts from the same factory as Great Wall.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Well, down here a vendor is a person or company who sells a good or service.

So what do you call the company that makes and sells the body kits or gearboxes or tyres or whatever that Ford use when they are assembling a Falcon?

The term "component vendor" and just "vendor" in commonly used in many different facets of commerce in Australia.

Information Technology, plumbing, electrical, irrigation etc etc, basically any commercial enterprise that uses something made by other companies to build or implement their product that may or may not be sold to yet another entity as a component or THEIR product...

I do remember a huge problem with diffs in BA Falcons. Wasn't the "vendor" Dana blamed for that?
Tremec blamed for the T56 rattle.
etc. etc. etc........

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what do you call the company that makes and sells the body kits or gearboxes or tyres or whatever that Ford use when they are assembling a Falcon?

The term "component vendor" and just "vendor" in commonly used in many different facets of commerce in Australia.

Information Technology, plumbing, electrical, irrigation etc etc, basically any commercial enterprise that uses something made by other companies to build or implement their product that may or may not be sold to yet another entity as a component or THEIR product...

I do remember a huge problem with diffs in BA Falcons. Wasn't the "vendor" Dana blamed for that?
Tremec blamed for the T56 rattle.
etc. etc. etc........

A company that supplies parts to a car company to be included in a final product to be on sold is just that, a 'parts supplier'. A quick Google search returns next to nil results for 'Component Vendor' in regards to suppliers providing bulk qty parts to a manufacturer. On the other hand 'Parts Supplier' returns dozens of results.

Yes. But when that diff problem arose, the customer went to Ford, not Dana for help. What Ford does behind the scenes to rectify the problem is not the business of the customer. As far as the customer is concerned, the car (and all its individual components) is a Ford. Blaming a failure of a product on a 3rd party parts supplier is not good business.

In fact, was there not a recent post regarding this? Ford was fitting 'factory' accessories to their new vehicles and trying to offer reduced warranties citing that 'that's what our supplier offers'. This changed once Fair trading got involved.

I sell products which I source ready made from a 3rd party. I import goods, allow for items to be damaged in transit, soiled, used for samples etc.

When I get a customer order, be it for 1 or 50 I personally ensure that each product I supply meets or exceeds the customers expectations. If (and it hasn't happened yet) I get a complaint that the goods I sell were not to the standard or quality expected I see it as a failure on my part to the customer. I wouldn't say that my supplier made a dodgy batch, or used an inferior material. And I would initially bear the brunt of that complaint, not my supplier.

I'm sure Ford does this on a larger scale. Having lax quality control increases the chances of recalls.

[Coogs289]

http://www.pickles.com.au/damaged/ve...027024/lotid-0
:

[fairmont1998]

Yellow Festiva - I work in a car assembly plant. Suppliers ARE called vendors.

[RG]

Originally Posted by velocity_avisGT

http://www.pickles.com.au/damaged/ve...027024/lotid-0
:

Looks like it hit a strong gust of wind

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by velocity_avisGT

http://www.pickles.com.au/damaged/ve...027024/lotid-0
:

For what looks like a big frontal collision, the cabin looks to be in tact so not all bad news? Could show a few pics of 5 star cars in some crashes and we will compare. Don't know the circumstances of this accident though ... I doubt it would have been a 20km impact.

Mate pics up his today ...... worked out at $28,000 with ticking all boxes. After looking at Toyota & Nissan, the difference was $27,000. So in comparison, sell it in 3 years and buy another ..... still in front. Will check it out after a test drive and let you's know.



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[bingoTE50]

Are we upset because they are Chinese ? What about the Mitsubishi Express , thousands of Couriers drove them without complaint . Why ? Because they satisfied a need. These utes in 2.4 have a Mitsubishi sourced motor and should be reliable.
Would I own one ? Probably if I needed one , it could be no more life threatening than my 94 hilux twin cab ...

[mik]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Data in turn provides knowledge. And over time, once designs become more pleasing to the eye, once safety becomes more important over low prices and if prices remain comparatively low this combination will EARN them favour.

Do your brand research before trying to appear smart. If you looked into the DATA, you would have increased your KNOWLEDGE on the matter and found that from 2006-2009:

Ford had 23 recalls,
Hyundai had 6 recalls
and Kia had 3.

data does`nt give practical experience, you could give the chinese motor company plans to build a ferrari , but who would you buy one off.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Data in turn provides knowledge. And over time, once designs become more pleasing to the eye, once safety becomes more important over low prices and if prices remain comparatively low this combination will EARN them favour.

Do your brand research before trying to appear smart. If you looked into the DATA, you would have increased your KNOWLEDGE on the matter and found that from 2006-2009:

Ford had 23 recalls,
Hyundai had 6 recalls
and Kia had 3.

we could also argue that kia makes 10 different cars and commecials in Australia, but Ford makes about 8 different models and 70 different versions of those models including commercials, Hyundai has 12 models and 28 different versions, if Ford only had 23 recalls for all those models , then they are`nt doing to bad are they , your turn .

[Auslandau]

Mate picked up his Great Wall today so took it for a run (read very leisurely cruise!) For the price paid, 28k which includes all accessories, nudge bar, tow pack, tub liner etc .... it is quite a surprising drive ..... very slow ..... but surprising. For the price paid, less than $29,000 than a Navara with leather etc, it is perfect for what he wants to do.

You cannot compare the Hilux, Ranger and Navara to these as they are chalk and cheese ..... it is capable of towing a small box trailer .... and thats about it but seeing that all the drive line is Mitsubishi .... 2.4 ltr .... the equivalent price in the Triton gets you a single cab and nothing else and is still more on the road in 4x4. Actually when you open the bonnet, everything has Mitsubishi on it. Parts are pinched from others as well with the complete rear tub being Isuzu

With a 3yr 100k warranty, he only wants it for this time and will see how it goes. Rides well, heaps of room in the back seats (for a twin cab), with leather everywhere, carpet, full electrics, air con, very good stereo, little things light adjustable driving lights etc.

All I can say is if these turn out to be reasonably reliable, there vertainly is a market for them ... built for a price and for a purpose. With the expansion of the range, they could really make a very big impact .... least they look a hell of a lot better than Ssanyong Musso's!



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[smoo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I'm not condoning GW motors. I personally think they are cheap and nasty with underwhelming performance and shocking safety.

Thats a bit rich coming from a Festiva owner don't ya think?

Which reminds me, I can't get over the amount of people giving these cars/utes a hard time on the safety issue(fair enough imo), yet they will happily buy their teenager kid a Starlet or Pulsar as a first car, or drive one thenselves.

A 5 star rating doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy, not when a reverse camera, sealbelt warning light or pedestrian safety is the reason why it got that rating. I'd much rather be in a dirty old EL Falcon during a head on than a 5 star VW Polo or whatever.

[greenfoam]

I don't think anyone would like to drive a EL sideways into a tree after you see how well side airbags work in the 5 star cars, Much more important than a wheel airbag imho. Dunno why they weren't the first ones to be used

[womble101]

Guys Pretty much every thing we buy has a large % of parts made in China or India.
It all comes down to what the primary company wants, if they spend alot on quality tooling and materials then they can make a good product at a cheap labour cost.
The people in China are not stupid and unable to learn how to operate machinery, many of the engineers and managers of these companies are trained in some of our most prestigious school.
If the princible company contracts them to make cheep thats what they get. Same as the BMW's and Fords made in South Africa, there is noway those factories are as well supplied or staffed as the German ones.
The saying you get what you pay for is true for all levels of the chain remember that.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

I don't think anyone would like to drive a EL sideways into a tree after you see how well side airbags work in the 5 star cars, Much more important than a wheel airbag imho. Dunno why they weren't the first ones to be used

Side airbags and trees ??

The score would be....

Trees 1. Airbags 0

[timmey]

I hate these cars....if you don't have much money ' buy a 2nd hand aussie built car !!!' or japanese
What Richard head would buy a copy [isuzu/rodeo] of anther ute anyway ????

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by timmey

I hate these cars....if you don't have much money ' buy a 2nd hand aussie built car !!!' or japanese
What Richard head would buy a copy [isuzu/rodeo] of anther ute anyway ????

So when you drove one, did you think it was that bad .... especially considering the money?



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[gocruzin]

here's a couple of videos of (cheap) chinese car being crash tested makes me think twice about buying them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5SRyG6UR2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Ep3...eature=related
and heres an old au for comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjJHZaBDlYU

[Auslandau]

Seeing that those are not sold here and most probably do not pass Aust. Stds ...... what about something that is sold here as a comparison?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdvEI...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_TZlYWHvXw



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