Push for fuel efficiency standards in Australia

[CyberWasp]

If greenies were truly concerned, there would be an immediate ban on petrol / diesel mining vehicles.
Materials needed to be mined to make batteries should be by pick and shovel as that does not pollute and has the least amount of environmental impact.
Fossil Fuels can not be used in any way to transport the mined materials, nor be used in any way in the powering of the plants to manufacture the batteries.
Same applies in the transport of batteries ect to the car manufacturing plants which would also have to be green powered.
They are hypocrites as they don't practice what they preach.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by myrpo

Think for under 300km a day's activity of city - school - wife - run around car we will go an EV next time. That is if they come down in price a bit, maybe a lot. If not we will go another hybrid. The hybrid we currently have has been awesome since 2016, 190,000km.

The two things that appeal about EVs to me, is they go like the clappers, and I can power the house at night.

The bits that detract is they don't self charge in the sun, and for us we park in the sun all the time away from the house at work, kids sport, shopping etc. No spare, and no wagons.

I've given up on the noise around range envy, battery fires, rare metals, Co2, slave labour.......
I can think of many failings around ICM's so don't see any of it as an argument for or against really.

We have a big solar system with large chunks of energy going to the scabs in the energy industry. So would like to capture more of it for myself. Started looking into buying a totaled EV to knock of the batteries for the house rather than say a Powerwall. 80Kwh is far more appealing than 13.5, especially for a few cloudy days.

Bring on then EVs I say.

The only problem with using an EV as a house battery is you waste cycles powering the house instead of turning the wheels - you lose battery life in exchange for energy usage of the house.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

not really. she's elected to parliament, so regardless of her professional qualifications beforehand her opinions now most certainly do count for more than mine or yours

Given the government has the majority in the lower house where Monique Ryan sits, her opinion is less than worthless because she holds precisely zero political power over the government.

They don't need her vote to get anything through the lower house as they hold a majority, so she can say what ever bull**** pie in the sky empty promises she likes because she brings zero value to the table. She can raise a private members bill and then the government can vote it down.

The senate is a different story, however Monique Ryan sits in the lower house, so I stand by my point.

All the Teals are is a bunch of well off white women from intergenerational wealth who hate the working class and can't bring themselves to vote for the Greens, they're just bankrolled by a billionaire

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

All the Teals are is a bunch of well off white women from intergenerational wealth who hate the working class and can't bring themselves to vote for the Greens, they're just bankrolled by a billionaire

In the Spirit of true Parliamentary Comradeship, Dr Ryan should offer her Medical Services to Senator Thorpe.

[myrpo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The only problem with using an EV as a house battery is you waste cycles powering the house instead of turning the wheels - you lose battery life in exchange for energy usage of the house.

Yeh I don't see that as issue for me really. You can park and polish a car counting your coins, or use it and move on. Every time your turn the key on car you are wearing it out. People replace cars nowadays not motors, they are just another commodity like a TV. Charging a battery or its life cycle is no different.

As the EV market continually expands prices will come down and that includes batteries. Batteries will get better as did icm's became longer life'd and more reliable.

Think people need to consider charge stations will be as common as street poles, far more than fuel stations currently. Their needs to be a whole lot of upgrading but traditional fuel stations won't be how it works, as they can't cater for the time and space. The growing number of charge stations outside cafe's, restaurants, supermarkets, boutique distilleries etc is continually expanding. And its going regional to help cater for range anxiety.

Actually think it may go back to like parking meters. You can upload and down load charge and pay or get paid accordingly every time you park the car. Got a mate who is now worth hundreds and hundreds of millions. Just a daggy engineer in jeans in a small industrial shed here in Brisbane. He makes devices that allows cars to be changed via generic methods over company specific. Bit like a phone's no name charge cable V Apple's. Jo Biden loved the idea.

Its all a bit hard to imagine, but traditional cars and infrastructure to support them didn't grow overnight. EVs are no different. Think with EV's we are in the Model T Ford phase of a time line to be honest. Oil will be around for a long time, as where horses, due to many developing countries have not even found or successfully rolled out T Fords yet so to speak.

[Citroënbender]

It’s a compound issue; as so often, we - the foolish, gullible populace - are falling prey to conceived strategies of “divide and conquer” on bite-sized fragments.

Will this fix crime waves in rural communities, stop chronic drug use or create accommodation for people who can’t find a rental? Will it beget more nurses, doctors, vets, aged care workers, paramedics, teachers, psychologists or tradespeople?

Politicians are entitled to their opinions - and so much as the rest of us - their hypocrisies, but I hope that Parliament will do its “job” in tempering the fervour.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by simon varley

to be fair though:

1. many of those 20 year old cars are still on the road
2. even if new car emissions have halved, there are more than twice as many cars on the road so the total tailpipe emissions have increased

You've missed my point, CO2 "emissions" are not pollution. Serious pollution from car exhaust were sorted in the 70s & 80s.

A VN/VP Commodore or EB Falcon (both now over 30 years old IIRC) in a good state of tune do not emit "dangerous exhaust pollution".

Dr Terrry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

In the Spirit of true Parliamentary Comradeship, Dr Ryan should offer her Medical Services to Senator Thorpe.

Now there's an idea, although I think senator Thorpe is beyond help.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by simon varley

not really. she's elected to parliament, so regardless of her professional qualifications beforehand her opinions now most certainly do count for more than mine or yours

With our Parliaments full so many of these dickheads, it's a wonder that our country survives.

Dr Terry

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

A bit like the infamous Dr Tim Flannery who was a mammalogist, in other words he studied mammals.

Over a decade ago he foretold us that "we would never again see real rain on the East coast of Australia". 5 years later Brisbane had record floods.

Dr Terry

Perth would become a desert city... and my rellies had all sorts of water problems in their houses over there with all the rain last year

It seems idiotic in retrospect

[Sprintey]

This is a good 4 corners report on why we will need mining and more of it, for the renewable future:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-...-more/13873540

Is the cost to the environment worth the reduction in CO2 emitted?

Whatever the answer, it'll be profitable, and Australia will Lucky Country once again as it blunders into success Selling Them Dirt as it has done so many times in the past.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Now there's an idea, although I think senator Thorpe is beyond help.

Dr Terry

The lying down in front of the wrong float was very entertaining, tho

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by myrpo

Yeh I don't see that as issue for me really. You can park and polish a car counting your coins, or use it and move on. Every time your turn the key on car you are wearing it out. People replace cars nowadays not motors, they are just another commodity like a TV. Charging a battery or its life cycle is no different.

As the EV market continually expands prices will come down and that includes batteries. Batteries will get better as did icm's became longer life'd and more reliable.

Yeah except the difference is an MG3 costs less than $20K drive away, the cheapest Tesla is $65K.

That cheap Tesla has an 8-10 year lifespan on the battery, before you start using it to power your house (I'm not sure if Tesla supports V2L, but V2L is stupid anyway)

So your 8-10 year life span suddenly becomes 5 years and then once that craps out you're left with something with no value because of the cost of the battery replacement is ridiculous.

Unless battery technology makes a generational leap in the next decade (which it barely made any progress in the last 130 years), it won't replace ICE any time soon.

EV's aren't a new technology, they predate ICE cars.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

The lying down in front of the wrong float was very entertaining, tho

Same with getting banned from the strip club earlier this week, and she was completely sober too - thats a decent effort.

[Sprintey]

And turning up at the trans/anti-trans pro feminist rally then un-welcoming them to country complete with flag was a wtf of twisting grievance politics proportions, to be honest I couldn't keep up with who was oppressing who

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Monique Ryan, never heard of her, but heres the important breakdown
1: She's a politician, so you need to question WHO's agenda she's pushing, and WHY
2: Yes, she's a "Doctor", but in Neurology, studies of the brain, nothing to do with the environment, motoring or anything at all to do with what she's written here.

Basically, her opinion on the matter matters no more than that of the average person on the street.

It is, however, amusing to note that her parents had seven children, and she herself has had three, which makes me consider her to be somewhat of a hypocrite given her stance on climate change, and her family's contribution towards rising population numbers....

She's pushing Labor's agenda. She's a Labor true believer, realising that she had a quicker path to parliament as an "independent". No different to, say, the thankfully unseated Ali Cupper.

The overpopulation lie is one of the greatest ever sold to us. 1960s era pop psychology that makes no sense in the modern world.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

You've missed my point, CO2 "emissions" are not pollution. Serious pollution from car exhaust were sorted in the 70s & 80s.

A VN/VP Commodore or EB Falcon (both now over 30 years old IIRC) in a good state of tune do not emit "dangerous exhaust pollution".

Dr Terrry

Exactly. Not to mention, a VN/VP Commodore and an EB Falcon both make reliable, cheap/easy to service, comfortable, viable transportation options to those of us on a budget.

I have the means to "upgrade" but I daily my XH after all.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Exactly. Not to mention, a VN/VP Commodore and an EB Falcon both make reliable, cheap/easy to service, comfortable, viable transportation options to those of us on a budget.

I have the means to "upgrade" but I daily my XH after all.

Plus you've made money on the XH, I tried to buy an XG/XH in 2021 but I refused to pay $10K for one

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Plus you've made money on the XH, I tried to buy an XG/XH in 2021 but I refused to pay $10K for one

Bangernomics right there. If I have a lazy $50k sitting around, I'll be using that as a deposit on a house. You know, something that will make me money...

I mean, is there anything on the new car market that actually interests me? A Siamese ****box? I would have to spend BMW M3 money for that and I can't justify a car that is worth 2/3 of my house!

[myrpo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yeah except the difference is an MG3 costs less than $20K drive away, the cheapest Tesla is $65K.

That cheap Tesla has an 8-10 year lifespan on the battery, before you start using it to power your house (I'm not sure if Tesla supports V2L, but V2L is stupid anyway)

So your 8-10 year life span suddenly becomes 5 years and then once that craps out you're left with something with no value because of the cost of the battery replacement is ridiculous.

Unless battery technology makes a generational leap in the next decade (which it barely made any progress in the last 130 years), it won't replace ICE any time soon.

EV's aren't a new technology, they predate ICE cars.

Yep very early cars were EVs, just way ahead of their times and politics probably. Can't help think however comparing a MG3 made in china from 20 year old discarded motor industry technology to a Tesla, is why this tread exists. And why Australia gets old tech polished and rebadged as the latest offering, hence MG3.

For sure at present it seems more affluent people are buying the EVs, but there will a player that emerges in the market like first gen Hyundai Excel. My memory is a bit vague but I seem to recall in the same half decade the cheapest cheap car (Japanese) was 22K, until Hyundai put it at 15, then 12 with the Getz.

Like it or not those single skin car opened the door for all the other cheaper smaller vehicles, firstly from Korea, now China. Perhaps India will set a new level? But it will always remain the more you pay the more refinement, build quality, technology, performance etc one gets. A MG3 is only better than a Tesla on price, period.

Personally I reckon V2H (vehicle 2 home) is great idea. Imagine going to do the grocery shopping and you have full charge in your car, but you drop half of it whilst shopping and get paid? You then come home and plug the car into the house to recharge it again particularly if you have solar. When night falls you use 1/5, maybe 1/4, or even 1/3 of that charge to run the TVs, fridges, and lights. Or maybe you went to a particular grocery shop in the first place to recharge, as they are offering discounted energy to draw you in. Bit like 4c off fuel currently. Perhaps it was the local footy club, RSL, or cinema?

Eventually you go camping in the 4x4 EV, no more duel battery set up, DC to DC chargers, solar panels, just plug the show into the car. Or, again maybe the caravan park or motel offers incentives to stay the night, or multiple days.

Reckon the confusion we are all facing is that we don't get renewables without fossil fuels, and the fossil industry has invested heavily and early in renewables. We don't get one without the other. So arguments of write and wrote, cleaner greener V polluting, good and bad etc will out last religion.

Parts of the world still use horse and cart, other parts simple ICM, other parts build an EV that does 0-100 in 2.7sec, 250K of EV that obliterates an 8 million dollar Bugatti. Its only first world looking to solve its consuming habits as they are the biggest poluters. But when air pollution from vehicles kills more people than the road toll, I can't see the powers that be changing the game. Call them Greens, Libs, or Labour the agenda is still the same. Its just politics that will decide who is the bad guy for creating the change.

Just my view, I am no expert in anything.

[mick taylor]

We have to get rid of 91 octane unleaded.
In QLD I drove the inland hwy from Bris to Bundy and E 10 was hard to come by.
I asked WHY and they claimed a lot of BS answer and that people did not like E10 ?

I asked a few old time mechanics who should of known better i thought, Oh No E10 is rubbish they claimed.

I said the real issue is octane rating fools ! If you have a car that is say from 2010 on the compression ratio will be something around 10:1 and you can not run such compression on 91 octane with out the engine compensating spark timing.

So you will see that the manufacture says it can run on 91 octane ? but why do they say that ? Yes it will but it will not be 100% efficient in fact !

So if you run 95 octane the engine will run 100% efficient but on 91 you will loose economy and performance in fact.

But 95 octane cost way to much.

Not to mention that road was not many 95 unleaded at all, but only 91 and 98 unleaded was the norm.
I do not want to run 91 or fork out for 98.

Now by rights we should have only 95 E10 and 98 E10 in 2023 at fuel stations, if we were serious about emissions and the cars running totally efficient.

If we got rid of 91 octane then 95 E10 would become much cheaper than it is now.

So i have run my 2015my car on 98 and to no added performance at all same with my 2011my car and 91 is totally pathetic to run on, of may i say E10 94 is a huge difference the cars are alive, 91 E10 is no good because the octane rating is to low to perform.

So running 91 octane is like having a HQ Holden 202 back in the day, running on Standard 89 octane, You could do it ! but you would have to retard your spark timing about 12 deg and it would use more fuel and feel more gutless.
So that is what people are doing nowadays, but would anyone do such back in the 70's ? Boasting i run standard 89 octane in my high compression HQ 202 what a hero, a real bright spark !
But that's what is going on nowadays

After all the Government crowing on and on like a total moron on claiming to be doing the right thing ? well they clearly are not or they are stupid or dumb as a rock.

[simon varley]

as long as 91 is cheap, people who don't care about cars will continue to use it. Ironically E10 is also cheap but those same people believe the BS about that too.