The "Ford" and "Falcon" brand

[saber]

Originally Posted by prydey

from my experience, talking to other people, both car enthusiasts and non, a lot of people judge aussie cars on false perception. many still see them as gas guzzlers : and think that cars like honda accord and toyota aurion are streets ahead in economy when in fact the reality is quite different.

Amen to that!

Example 1: I asked a workmate why he hates his AU falcon (which by the way he didn't pay for, it was given to him by his parents). His response was that it used up too much fuel, and the car was unreliable. I asked him what is your fuel economy at the moment. He responded by stating " Well on a recent trip back home, travelling along the highway, I averaged 9.4L with 3 mates and a boot full of crap." I then asked him what car would do a better job in that situation. His response "A Corrolla"

In all the times he has owned it, nothing has gone wrong with the car, and he abuses the car daily. i guess you can't please everybody.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

I suppose deluded is stepping over the mountain of cracked engine blocks out the back of the dealership that you work for at the time. Every experience is different for every one I know & I know Mitsubishi tried hard to warrant the huge problem they created for themselves, the damage from these problems were too hard to overcome for Mitsubishi & they stopped production in Aust.

They fixed the cracking problem by recasting thicker blocks which is seven years too late.

True the old Astrons were a pile of crap but from 95 onwards Mitsubishis were good cars. The 6G series V6s were bulletproof. They got the odd leak but so do all cars.

[XR Martin]

I not sure if you could blame Ford's reputation, Hyundai has/had a worse one and the I30 sold in the bucketloads.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

I not sure if you could blame Ford's reputation, Hyundai has/had a worse one and the I30 sold in the bucketloads.

Thats actually a good point. If Fords cars sold for similar price as the Hyundais and offered a 5 year warranty they'd sell no worries.

[V8 Man]

In my humble opinion, Falcons and Commodores offer the best value for money on the market. Well equiped, powerful, cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, easy to sell. The biggest problem I see with them is their build quality. If you buy a poverty pack Falcodore, paint finish is ordinary, the trim doesn't fit properly, it rattles and squeeks, little interior bits fall off/stop working. Whilst this is annoying, you get what you pay for. However, you shell out for a GTP or a Statesman, you have the same problem, because they're put together by the same blokes on the same production line. Therein lies the problem.

[sxckevo]

in the last year or so with the release of the fg and an awesome CEO i can see that ford is slowly but surely climbing up the ladder. about all this media crap in the last week which always seems to change from good news one day, bad news the next in a cycle, i have already had 2 people say to me 'did you hear that they are getting rid of the falcon(and ford)'. Marin should have released a news confrance or something in the days that followed to set everyone straight, even if the future is still undersided. i really don't get why he or ford didn't : more spy shots need to be release, frequent updates on the future drive trains need to be done, get some public interest happening ('oh margret did you hear ford is releasing a 4 cyl for the falcon'...'it won't be able to move the falcon its to heavy'...'na its a high tech engine from the US its had really good reviews'...'oh ok thats interesting') have dealer service like my father and i recieved the other day from ethridge ford everywhere (if vehicles arn't selling in a certain dealer send someone out to pose as a fake potenial customer and find where the dud link is and fire there ***), holden just released they are putting 6 speeds in every commodore follow close in there shadows and do the same or better do it before(get rid of the conditions under the falcon economy ad), team vodafone leaving ford in v8 supercars for holden 'ford not factory backing team vodafone' whos cares oviously they are doing it to save money for company interests or just keeping them self from going under like the MEDIAS GOD HOLDEN tell the public the reasons, falcon wagon holdens been the giunie pig releaseing the sportswagon which im pretty sure hasn't exactly helped there sales so why should ford bother wasting all the development costs etc for no profit, again could be better spent elsewhere in the company
just my rant

[sxckevo]

Originally Posted by V8 Man

In my humble opinion, Falcons and Commodores offer the best value for money on the market. Well equiped, powerful, cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, easy to sell. The biggest problem I see with them is their build quality. If you buy a poverty pack Falcodore, paint finish is ordinary, the trim doesn't fit properly, it rattles and squeeks, little interior bits fall off/stop working. Whilst this is annoying, you get what you pay for. However, you shell out for a GTP or a Statesman, you have the same problem, because they're put together by the same blokes on the same production line. Therein lies the problem.

definatly agreed

[Joe5619]

I think people’s glasses are half empty!! I think Ford is dong great.

Falcon: 2nd in segment & had a 3% (or something like that) market share increase year on year in the large car segment.. That is a bl00dy fantastic result!! To be 2nd best & get a 3% increase in one year is very, very, very hard to do. It has take the company I work for (who is also 2nd in market) 4 years to get an increase of market share of 3%!!

Falcon Ute: out sold Commodore Ute.. Enough said

Territory: Lets be honest, it very, very, very aging model & should be down year on year.. Wait for the make over model to hit the streets & Territory will be segment leader again

Fiesta: It is up 50% (or something like that) year on year!! How much better do you want?

Focus: Again aging model. We should be expecting it to be doing badly with newier models on the market!! This model will get even worse in 2010, but again to be expected. Wait for the new model to come & things will pick up!!

Mondeo: This model will never do well in Australia as along as the Falcon is here.. End of story with this brand..

Ranger: I’m not sure how this one is going, but do remember MB saying one month that 4x4 had it best month ever, so it can't be doing to badly!!

Can someone please tell me were there is a problem again??

[jpd80]

Have to ask whether today's Ford is happy selling "X" amount of higher series cars
with more profit rather than Follow Holden and Toyota deep into fleet sales territory.

It seems like the theory of good profit off every vehicle is the cornerstone of Ford's world wide salvation.

As one sales man put it, "I'd rather be No.4 with solid profit than trying to be be No.1 or 2 with losses".

[foxtrot3]

Hi Step into the wayback machine and go back 5 or 6 years and the media were telling us that Mitsubishi was sick (there was nothing really wrong with the cars, they just didn't make enough money) come forward and mitsu closes manufacturing in aus. Come foward another year and the media cant pick on mitsu any more so they pick on another big company............................whose turn now. MD

[The G6ET Spot]

Funny I should come across this thread today. While driving home today my wife asked me if I would ever by another Holden.

I nearly had an accident laughing. My reply was, that while their was still a Ford being sold in Australia I would buy one.

Why? Because as far as I am concerned
1. FG falcon is the best car in it's segment. Beats Commodore and Camry/Aurion hands down

2. Mondeo is a brilliant car, but Ford just hasn't advertised it the right way.

3. Focus and Fiesta need I say more.

Then if they took all those away I would import a Mustang from the States

So why there is all the doom and gloom on these forums of late is beyond me.

Ford has some of the best cars on the market at present.
If people would be bothered to look I think that Fords bottom line would be looking a bit better than Holdens at the moment

[RSgerry]

the Mondeo is a great car, but i think it is too expensive. Way too close to the Falcon in terms of pricing. it was the same with the last lot of Mondeos.

as for Mondeos being bad cars, mine has done 192000 kms, been serviced every 10,000 and doesnt miss a beat. it has been one of the best cars i have ever owned. econimical, comfortable and a boot that is just enormous. without getting out the tape measure, the boot in the Mondeo is bigger than my XR.

[fordv8!]

i honestly think there is a bias against ford in the media and most people believe what thgey read or here. AS we all know on this forum FG is a better car than anything in its class and priceing

[SVR73]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I still think the Falcon name is very strong. The Taurus and Mondeo were much more damaged names in their home markets, now look at them.

Remember Ford are selling the Mondeo and Falcon side by side, not many other car companies have identically sized and priced cars in the same showroom. Most people looking at a family car at Ford will go with the Falcon, if the Falcon didnt exist the Mondeo would be selling better.

It's just metal dude, nothing special really.
ford have no idea how to market and seem to be too much of a tightarse to make top quality cars.

Some of us will never buy a new car again, like myself. all on the world market now is garbage and too conservative. the days of real cars are gone.
Couldnt give two hoots about ford or any other car company, they are all bastards.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by RAPID XR8

Funny I should come across this thread today. While driving home today my wife asked me if I would ever by another Holden.

I nearly had an accident laughing. My reply was, that while their was still a Ford being sold in Australia I would buy one.

Why? Because as far as I am concerned
1. FG falcon is the best car in it's segment. Beats Commodore and Camry/Aurion hands down

2. Mondeo is a brilliant car, but Ford just hasn't advertised it the right way.

3. Focus and Fiesta need I say more.

Then if they took all those away I would import a Mustang from the States

So why there is all the doom and gloom on these forums of late is beyond me.

Ford has some of the best cars on the market at present.
If people would be bothered to look I think that Fords bottom line would be looking a bit better than Holdens at the moment

It's easy to be negative. But Ford have some great products out right now. FG Falcon and Fiesta are just the start.

[XXXR]

Forget the doom and gloom, Ford Australia actually posted a profit in 4th quarter 2009. Falcon sedan outsold commodore in 2 of the last 3 months of 2009. Private sales for Falcon are at the highest level i've ever seen and Ford are selling more high-end high-profit G-Series and XR cars than ever. Holden and Toyota can have the white-goods fleet markets; and Ford can be the brand for people who enjoy driving and can appreciate good driving dynamics, excellent design (kinetic anyone?) and can smell a well-tuned chassis from a mile away.

This year we're getting a raft of great new engines for Australias best large car, a new territory will arrive this time next year, the new focus will bring back sales in the small car segment, the kuga could easily deliver 500 extra sales per month and once the public gets a taste of ecoboost...

It's up to the 50,000 members of this forum to dispell the myths and get the message out!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by phillyc

It's easy to be negative. But Ford have some great products out right now. FG Falcon and Fiesta are just the start.

Having desirable products takes priority over selling in huge quantities.

I believe in Mulally's edict that every vehicle Ford sells will make a profit.
Ford Australia sold around 103,000 vehicles last year, if they made just
$2000 profit off each of them, that would be around $200 million profit before tax...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

1. If they had the falcon in their markets too the mondeo wouldn't sell either!

The falcon wouldnt sell there either. Too big, too thirsty.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Thats actually a good point. If Fords cars sold for similar price as the Hyundais and offered a 5 year warranty they'd sell no worries.

Well, that's one thought - long warranty.

Ford, however, have offered long warranties in the past - like the 6 year warranty on AUII's, and have often offered extended warranties to make sales (my mate got a 6 year extended warranty on a BF XR6T). But Ford extended warranties seem to be parts only - so they lock you into a single dealer and slug you for labour at RRP rate even if the parts are free. As a result, he chose to bail out of it because maintenance appeared to be higher with a warranty than if he simply tried harder to get genuine parts cheaper (like through FTG) and get work done somewhere else. This is contrary to other extended warranties like Toyota, who warrant all parts and up to $2k labour per claim. So yes, Ford have some way to go on warranty.

But I don't believe that's the reason why people bought the I30 in the numbers they did/do. So you have to ask yourself - why did it sell so well?

This is what I think:

(1) Low Price
(2) Excellent fuel economy - ie Diesel
(3) Perception through styling that quality has improved.

I think (1) is the first reason why anyone ever considers Hyundai, (2) is the major reason why people put Hyundai on their shopping list this time around and (3) is why it isn't crossed off as they got closer to making a decision. 2 of the 4 new diesel sedans in our carpark over the last 12 months have been I30's.

I think for the size of car, Falcon has always been reasonable on (1). Perhaps it could improve a little. But (2) is it's first bad strike. Admittedly this is what they are trying to address with the 4Cylinder and the LiPLPG, but I'm not convinced it will work as well as a Diesel could (ie just like an Fiesta Econetic) But (3) is the main reason why Falcon gets taken off most peoples lists these days.

I have had 2 situations where guys at work were considernig G6ET's - but both ended up chosing a diesel European car. Their final choice was much slower, they couldn't afford the stupid prices for all the extra accessories that they would have bought. But their reason was that they didn't rate the perceived quality of the Falcon very highly, and ni the end they didn't want to be perceived as an 'Australian Bogan Redneck'. And that is a brand issue.


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

You know, raising the 'Australian Bogan Redneck' made me think - it's obviously insulting to the people that purchase XR's and FPV's. It certainly bugs me as an XR owner.

So I wonder if Ford could play on that somehow through marketting?

For example, a G6E or G6ET style ad that takes a swing against 'Australian Bogan Rednecks' by pointing fun at an XR driver while highlighting the luxury qualities of the car they're in - to try and go with the flow that Toyota have started against all the traditional reasons why you'd buy a Holden or Ford with a 'motorsport redneck' in the passenger seat in a recent Aurion ad. That way it would go some way to distancing itself from that image in it's luxury models.

But to avoid completely alienating the style of customer targetted by that ad, they could make a partner ad from the perspective of the XR driver who would point fun at the 'Latte Sipping Softie' in the G6E/G6ET, with some sort of family oriented focus, inclusive of a tie-in to V8 Supercars. I know I certainly take my kids to V8 Supercar races, and that works with the family-friendly image that V8 Supercars is trying to target (by wiping out Alcohol at races, inclusive of Bathurst).


Lukeyson

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by b0son

The falcon wouldnt sell there either. Too big, too thirsty.

I had know idea that 4 cyl Camry was so thirsty seeing how Falcon is as cheap to run.

[prydey]

i was recently given an fg loan car by my local dealer while my bf2 was having some warranty work done. ended up having it for 4 nights. i reset the trip computer when i got it and when i gave it back it was averaging a 10L/100km. ave speed of 40km/h. it was my first experience with an fg and i wasn't shy on the throttle, the first couple of drives.

for the size of them and what you get, they really are pretty good on the juice, given how well they go too. if you drove a smaller car (camry) in the same manner, i doubt it would return good numbers.

it was only the 5sp too. i believe 6sp is even better.

people that comment on how poor aussie cars are quite often haven't driven the latest offerings.

[anto]

of all the falcons I have had over the years from XA to current FG, they have all been solid reliable cars, not one major problem with any of them... except the dreaded EA ghia which was a complete lemon. I think that car/model did irreversible damage to fords reputation, something from which they have never been able to recover from in peoples perceptions. Remeber back in the XE/XF days before the EA Falcons were quite popular and from memory outsold the comos for several years.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by anto

Remeber back in the XE/XF days before the EA Falcons were quite popular and from memory outsold the comos for several years.

falcon outsold commodore until the VT was released.

[EB#]

As far as I can see, all new cars break down or have things go wrong......
It's just a matter of how much and how often. Some manufacturers seem to
do better than others.

Even after 102 years of development since the Model T, vehicles are still
breaking down and having things go wrong that could only be classed as
ridiculous. Maybe car companies just get too greedy with the profits, or
perhaps the need to recoup losses after engineering and marketing
catastrophies..???

As far as Fords go, I have had 2 of them over 5 years or so and luckily have had
good experiences. I bought my first Ford solely because I wanted an
Australian designed and built car, after having Euro and Jap cars previously.

I felt like supporting a local industry with a local workforce, that's all.

[EB#]

An interesting excerpt from:
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/ford.htm

At the beginning of the 20th century the automobile was a plaything for the rich. Most models were
complicated machines that required a chauffer conversant with its individual mechanical nuances to
drive it. Henry Ford was determined to build a simple, reliable and affordable car; a car the
average American worker could afford. Out of this determination came the Model T and the assembly
line - two innovations that revolutionized American society and molded the world we live in today.

Henry Ford did not invent the car; he produced an automobile that was within the economic reach of
the average American. While other manufacturers were content to target a market of the well-to-do,
Ford developed a design and a method of manufacture steadily reduced the cost of the Model T.
Instead of pocketing the profits; Ford lowered the price of his car. As a result, Ford Motors sold
more cars and steadily increased its earnings - transforming the automobile from a luxury toy to a
mainstay of American society.

The Model T made its debut in 1908 with a purchase price of $825.00. Over ten thousand were sold
in its first year, establishing a new record. Four years later the price dropped to $575.00 and
sales soared. By 1914, Ford could claim a 48% share of the automobile market.

Central to Ford's ability to produce an affordable car was the development of the assembly line
that increased the efficiency of manufacture and decreased its cost. Ford did not conceive the
concept, he perfected it. Prior to the introduction of the assembly line, cars were individually
crafted by teams of skilled workmen - a slow and expensive procedure. The assembly line
reversed the process of automobile manufacture. Instead of workers going to the car, the car
came to the worker who performed the same task of assembly over and over again. With the
introduction and perfection of the process, Ford was able to reduce the assembly time of a Model
T from twelve and a half hours to less than six hours.

[351capri]

the au years hurt the brand in a big way, the cars werent that bad, but the styling was. compared to a vt the au was hideous. we were also getting flogged on the racetrack and holden made sure everyone knew about it. with the later models coming through and improved styling and on track success ford are clawing there way back.what they need is someone like j clarkson to tell 30-50 odd million viewers just how good the fg series is.. has he driven one? even as a guest on the aussie show. could be something to think about? anyone?..... bueller???

[sxckevo]

Originally Posted by 351capri

the au years hurt the brand in a big way, the cars werent that bad, but the styling was. compared to a vt the au was hideous. we were also getting flogged on the racetrack and holden made sure everyone knew about it. with the later models coming through and improved styling and on track success ford are clawing there way back.what they need is someone like j clarkson to tell 30-50 odd million viewers just how good the fg series is.. has he driven one? even as a guest on the aussie show. could be something to think about? anyone?..... bueller???

yeah i want clarkson to drive an fg himself as well, it would be good to see what he reckons

[Nikked]

Ford need to be careful with the Falcon name, 50 continuous years of sales is amongst to longest in history. And, traditionally, it has been 'Falcon' V,s 'Holden' in a sense.

Holden have had a few names for there large car, but it was always 'A Holden'. Standard, kingswood, or Commodore, those names bare the history of the Holden 48-215 FX. And when the XK Falcon was released, it was to combat 'Australia's Holden'. Holden have been able to re brand the cars with little negative effect to public conscious. Something that i don't think ford will be capable of.

I think Ford learnt a great deal in America when the Taurus name was dropped for the 500 name, it came a cross as a desperate attempt to revive the model in that segment. Even the Mitsubishi 380 is a good case point, it didn't grab the audience in a way that Mitsubishi would hope for...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by sxckevo

yeah i want clarkson to drive an fg himself as well, it would be good to see what he reckons

as mentioned earlier, i recently drove an fg for 4 days while my bf2 was having warranty work done. to be honest, the only thing that stood out was the engine performance, and given my bf2 is an egas, its to be expected. the brakes weren't as good (fg had 40000, my bf2 has 90000), and handling wise there wasn't much in it. i admit i have put xr6 springs in my bf2 and it rides on 18" g6et rims so it felt a lot more solid on the road.

i don't push cars to their limit, esp when cornering. it was treated like a family wagon and i have to say, my bf2 is a wagon so it has leaf spring rear, and for all everyone carries on, the average punter wouldn't tell the difference in day to day driving, esp on medium to good surfaces, which in the metro areas, most are.

i've never driven a bf 190kw petrol powered car so can't compare the 2 but i was impressed with the power of the fg. the gearbox calibration (5sp) seemed to hang on to 1st gear much longer than my 4sp. the 4sp changes up almost as soon as you are rolling.

i think we make far to much fuss about things that the average punter would never pick.

build quality fits that mould. does the average punter really go around checking panel gaps and alignment? everything seemed bolted together pretty good to me. glovebox lid was extremely poor though, that did stand out.